You dodged my question and all these maps are insanely hard, they are top tier maps, theres a strong reason why only 10 people have fc'd a certain map for instance why is kemu life game worth nothing even tho it's nearly impossible and you have to get lucky https://osu.ppy.sh/u/set44599 why isn't kemu life game ( https://osu.ppy.sh/b/187501?m=2 ) on his top performances if he holds the only FC and SS another case is nomod, why is HD weighted like a anchor?Tom94 wrote:
Playing harder maps than your top plays also works. You don't need to improve on the exact same maps.Sabi wrote:
How do I improve my top plays if they are SS's? Spins? or? HD? cuz HD is really gay, it has no factor in the game's difficulty at all, to me it's just a preference of style, and also I just SS"D over 30 extra's and got multiple top 8's and 10's and I still didn't get 1 pp from it, and also can you explain this? http://gyazo.com/dd1790888a59f3cbe4e52574e7bcc640 that guy is rank 255 with normals and easy's on top performance. wat
edit: all this didn't give me 1 pp I think rin gave me like 1 or 2 http://gyazo.com/5b0ed8d80905584648bd0d7e0529b231
I agree with fabi, don't talk smack about my brethren please. Also, there is a huge range of ctb styles and preferences which cannot possibly be accounted for in a single algorithm (reliable player, HD player, HD+HR, spin pro, w/e). Don't judge others based on your style solelySabi wrote:
How do I improve my top plays if they are SS's? Spins? or? HD? cuz HD is really gay, it has no factor in the game's difficulty at all, to me it's just a preference of style, and also I just SS"D over 30 extra's and got multiple top 8's and 10's and I still didn't get 1 pp from it, and also can you explain this? http://gyazo.com/dd1790888a59f3cbe4e52574e7bcc640 that guy is rank 255 with normals and easy's on top performance. wat
edit: all this didn't give me 1 pp I think rin gave me like 1 or 2 http://gyazo.com/5b0ed8d80905584648bd0d7e0529b231
Shit talking other players? are you stupid or something? When did I shit talk anyone? are you retarded? or something holy shit. I was just wondering why there was normals and easy maps on top performances, I was using him as an example. I can care less about ranking I already know I'm good.DeathXHunter wrote:
Mad 'cause bad. Stop shit-talking about other players in public just because you think you deserve a higher rank and learn to play yourself.
Sabi wrote:
Shit talking other players? are you stupid or something? When did I shit talk anyone? are you retarded? or something holy shit. I was just wondering why there was normals and easy maps on top performances, I was using him as an example. I can care less about ranking I already know I'm good.DeathXHunter wrote:
Mad 'cause bad. Stop shit-talking about other players in public just because you think you deserve a higher rank and learn to play yourself.
I thought you cared, otherwise why were you so upset when pp was gone? You wouldn't care about all those "top tier" maps giving you 0pp either. Stop contradicting yourself, if you're so upset about the pp system then suggest ways for it to improve instead of complaining about it, that's all you've been doing lately.Sabi wrote:
I can care less about ranking
Zak wrote:
EDIT: I would also like to ask about what has been done when calculating the difficulty? I find it really odd that Go Berzerk still gives more than Calamity Fortune when it's worlds harder.
Also I think misses need to be penalized a little less, I like that droplets aren't penalized very much anymore (though they could be weighted slightly more idk) but on maps that are excessively hard to FC it's nearly impossible to get any pp because misses are completely destroying the pp they give.
Here's a good example:
I know that my score on Image Material is shit, but that's the very bottom of all my plays and I just don't see how that should be the 6th worst play I have out of nearly 3,500 maps that I have a score on.
Agreed.TenguKing9 wrote:
Zak wrote:
EDIT: I would also like to ask about what has been done when calculating the difficulty? I find it really odd that Go Berzerk still gives more than Calamity Fortune when it's worlds harder.
Also I think misses need to be penalized a little less, I like that droplets aren't penalized very much anymore (though they could be weighted slightly more idk) but on maps that are excessively hard to FC it's nearly impossible to get any pp because misses are completely destroying the pp they give.
Here's a good example:
I know that my score on Image Material is shit, but that's the very bottom of all my plays and I just don't see how that should be the 6th worst play I have out of nearly 3,500 maps that I have a score on.
if you can't sense my grammar in the sentence of what I said, and my sarcasm then you are really foreign.Seph wrote:
haSabi wrote:
go berzerk is hardest song
hahaha
ahahahahahaha
just learn to play and you'll eventually get pp.
inb4 noSabi wrote:
See you at top 50, I will get to top 50 within 1 week just to prove how dumb and easy it is.
Sabi wrote:
See you at top 50, I will get to top 50 within 1 week just to prove how dumb and easy it is.
then why are you posting heresalamat wrote:
When ppv2 was in progress, I thought I couldn't live without PP... now I feel it shouldn't belong anymore.
That being said, I know how hard it is to establish and maintain a fair system, that why I'm not doing anything about it.
From what I've noticed after getting to rank 99 from 310 was. Droplets mean nothing and spinners mean nothing, and you don't even have to fully FC a map. Trust me, I did over 40-60 CtB maps and other maps yesterday. A strong example is this https://osu.ppy.sh/b/159792?m=2 I didn't FC it, but I lost 10 pp normally if I did FC it, I think I got trolled and droped near the end or something. but look at my pp gain from (mine: https://osu.ppy.sh/u/2427813) to (Yukiteru Amano: https://osu.ppy.sh/u/1894511).Kingkevin30 wrote:
i wanted to ask about something with they weight of Maps and how they compare.
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/19465?m=2
this is a comparinson between Sabi's and my Record on the same map on the same diff. (i got a higher accuracy&Score with same Mod)
as im understanding pp, it should weight someones "perfomance" of playing constantly good, so if i want to beat a higher ranked player
i have to improve my whole perfomance through player better on harder maps and that with some consinstance.
but the "basic pp" of a map doesn't change..right?..just how much it is weighted..so why does he who is weighted higher overall (plays more consistant)
get a weightening in this map, while my skill consistance that is lower then his (as shown through my rank) doesn't get a weighting?
The "weighting" doesn't have anything to do with consistency. Only by how far up the score is in your best performance list. It's simply there to ensure you can't keep getting pp for equally good scores.Kingkevin30 wrote:
i wanted to ask about something with they weight of Maps and how they compare.
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/19465?m=2
this is a comparinson between Sabi's and my Record on the same map on the same diff. (i got a higher accuracy&Score with same Mod)
as im understanding pp, it should weight someones "perfomance" of playing constantly good, so if i want to beat a higher ranked player
i have to improve my whole perfomance through player better on harder maps and that with some consinstance.
but the "basic pp" of a map doesn't change..right?..just how much it is weighted..so why does he who is weighted higher overall (plays more consistant)
get a weightening in this map, while my skill consistance that is lower then his (as shown through my rank) doesn't get a weighting?
Won't play for about a week or so due to exams next week, but I'm sure looking forward to a better pp system when I come back o(>~<)oI'm guessing pp calculation for HR plays aren't weighted that much yet? I have some AR9 HDHR plays and they don't give that much. And waiting for the airman fix x3 that would give me some more pp if it doeslineqtxz wrote:
i have a question:
why ar10 + hr = tons of pp and ar9 + hr = ar10 = no pp xd
VelperK wrote:
i'm 2nd in pp so that means i must be happy about it
wait...
im not :O
What for?-Tachibana- wrote:
on a more serious note, i would also love to have a ctb pp wiki
I can make you the best pp wiki:-Tachibana- wrote:
on a more serious note, i would also love to have a ctb pp wiki
Laharl wrote:
What for?-Tachibana- wrote:
on a more serious note, i would also love to have a ctb pp wiki
- A list of maps giving great PP? - Owait
- How it is calculated? - Already in this thread
- What gives extra bonuses and such? - Should be obvious
- everything else I forgot - You shouldn't care about that, really...
Provide an example where HD has given more than HD+DT? I'm pretty certain that isn't happening anywhere, as the algorithm calculates the difficulty with DT added, while I think HD just gives a flat bonus, and obviously any map will be harder with DT (though most skilled players might find it easier since anything lower than AR8 is rather slow).-Tachibana- wrote:
actually, i think hidden is giving more pp than HD and DT (despite the former giving more of a bonus to score and the latter giving the same bonus)
HD DT is easier than ar7/8 HD indeedZak wrote:
Provide an example where HD has given more than HD+DT? I'm pretty certain that isn't happening anywhere, as the algorithm calculates the difficulty with DT added, while I think HD just gives a flat bonus, and obviously any map will be harder with DT (though most skilled players might find it easier since anything lower than AR8 is rather slow).-Tachibana- wrote:
actually, i think hidden is giving more pp than HD and DT (despite the former giving more of a bonus to score and the latter giving the same bonus)
Zak wrote:
Provide an example where HD has given more than HD+DT? I'm pretty certain that isn't happening anywhere, as the algorithm calculates the difficulty with DT added, while I think HD just gives a flat bonus, and obviously any map will be harder with DT (though most skilled players might find it easier since anything lower than AR8 is rather slow).-Tachibana- wrote:
actually, i think hidden is giving more pp than HD and DT (despite the former giving more of a bonus to score and the latter giving the same bonus)
Tom94 wrote:
DT should in pretty much all cases be superior to HD. Same goes for HR, but it's closer with HR. Cases where HD might come close to outshine these are crazy high and crazy low ARs.
Shouldn't the DT score replace a HD score in the case when someone achieves the same score because it will be worth more pp? Could this behavior be considered? It would seem to be a logical course of action to consider the more valuable score as the score that is submitted when the scores are equal.Tom94 wrote:
DT should in pretty much all cases be superior to HD. Same goes for HR, but it's closer with HR. Cases where HD might come close to outshine these are crazy high and crazy low ARs.
I think it would be better to revamp the scoring system and base it on the pp system when this one is "finished". But this isn't for now I guess...TheVileOne wrote:
Shouldn't the DT score replace a HD score in the case when someone achieves the same score because it will be worth more pp? Could this behavior be considered? It would seem to be a logical course of action to consider the more valuable score as the score that is submitted when the scores are equal.
I.. have failed you Natalia Poklonskaya ;; l0l just kidding atleast I got to 68 2 days before my internet was shut off *had to switch cuz comcast did the ol' let's put 300 dollars on your bill for no reason at all* I tried D;VelperK wrote:
Sabi wrote:
See you at top 50, I will get to top 50 within 1 week just to prove how dumb and easy it is.
As I saidSabi wrote:
I.. have failed you Natalia Poklonskaya ;; l0l just kidding atleast I got to 68 2 days before my internet was shut off *had to switch cuz comcast did the ol' let's put 300 dollars on your bill for no reason at all* I tried D;VelperK wrote:
It certainly would be ultra cool to have mod-specific highscores. Right now it can't be done, though. Let's see what the future brings.TheVileOne wrote:
Shouldn't the DT score replace a HD score in the case when someone achieves the same score because it will be worth more pp? Could this behavior be considered? It would seem to be a logical course of action to consider the more valuable score as the score that is submitted when the scores are equal.Tom94 wrote:
DT should in pretty much all cases be superior to HD. Same goes for HR, but it's closer with HR. Cases where HD might come close to outshine these are crazy high and crazy low ARs.
As I said68 was close enough~ and besides, I ranked and did over 80 maps, give sabi a break >_>
no
Yep, pretty much.Luna wrote:
Star rating in general is way too high for everything in CtB.
Cup and Salad diffs (Easy/Normal) are usually marked as Insanes, Platter/Rain/Overdose pretty much always as Extreme.
Just look at any ranked CtB mapset, like this one: http://osu.ppy.sh/s/91485
I thought it's already well-known that the PP rewards of CtB-specific maps are ridiculously high compared to the ones of converted maps which may be sometimes way more challenging.seicHmsc wrote:
The Rain difficulty gives 203pp, it is not that hard to FC [...]
There is no difference on the pp calculation between an specific and a converted difficulty, Zak is right, so the algorithm needs to be fixed.Laharl wrote:
I thought it's already well-known that the PP rewards of CtB-specific maps are ridiculously high compared to the ones of converted maps which may be sometimes way more challenging.seicHmsc wrote:
The Rain difficulty gives 203pp, it is not that hard to FC [...]
I think that can't be judged in some kind of ranking list. I'm #320 and didn't touch HR at ridiculously high AR until now.TheVileOne wrote:
I have a question for the CTB community. What CTB rank do you feel it should be necessary to have mastered HardRock in most maps to be able to reach? At my current level (low 1500) I haven't needed to touch HardRock at all to get here (well except Normal and Easy plays that are worth 100-115 pp).
If its insanes I'd say around rank 80 at most. If its HRing mostly Hards, I'd say 200 below.TheVileOne wrote:
I have a question for the CTB community. What CTB rank do you feel it should be necessary to have mastered HardRock in most maps to be able to reach? At my current level (low 1500) I haven't needed to touch HardRock at all to get here (well except Normal and Easy plays that are worth 100-115 pp).
Yup.seicHmsc wrote:
I think the algorithm must consider the jump complexity instead of only the distance, still, hyperdashed jumps and jumps close to an hyperdash should be rated high.
both are hard to fc, so this guy is right, where is the cookie?Laharl wrote:
Yup.seicHmsc wrote:
I think the algorithm must consider the jump complexity instead of only the distance, still, hyperdashed jumps and jumps close to an hyperdash should be rated high.
For example this (which is a somewhat bad example because I'm not even close to FCing that, maybe the guys who FC'd it are gonna tell me it's as easy as heck) or this - it doesn't even appear in a single PP ranking list, but the latter's in my opinion just a bad joke in terms of difficulty - and this should be definitely rewarded regarding how many people got FC on that map.
I guess the jumps in those maps may be seen as streams - which make them less interesting in terms of difficulty for someone that doesn't play Ctb, but it's somewhat wrong I guess.
In my opinion they are much, much harder than chain jumpsTheVileOne wrote:
I know that they aren't as difficult as chain jumps
they're a different thing, very hard for me to do them and will most of the time depend on luck for getting them doneLuna wrote:
Yeah, plate walks like in Emerald Sword and neu have already been mentioned.
Also,In my opinion they are much, much harder than chain jumpsTheVileOne wrote:
I know that they aren't as difficult as chain jumps
Maybe that's just because I suck at CtB
it depends if it's on the limit, emeral sword is not that hard, anyways, someone could tell me what are chain jumps plsVelperK wrote:
they're a different thing, very hard for me to do them and will most of the time depend on luck for getting them done
Hard slider patterns like the ones you mentioned are definitely underrated in CTB. Some examples: #1, #2, #3, #4Laharl wrote:
I guess the jumps in those maps may be seen as streams - which make them less interesting in terms of difficulty
I consider these chain jumps. They come in hyper and non hyper forms.seicHmsc wrote:
it depends if it's on the limit, emeral sword is not that hard, anyways, someone could tell me what are chain jumps plsVelperK wrote:
they're a different thing, very hard for me to do them and will most of the time depend on luck for getting them done
seph are you high...how can you say is not hard..just because note fc'd it...That map is obviously hard even with HD only, now imagine DTSeph wrote:
fixed it for youseicHmsc wrote:
it depends if it's on the limit, emerald sword is not that hard, anyways, someone could tell me what are chain jumps pls
also proof its not hard is that NoteKuroi fc'd with DT lol
They are not so hard to do if it isn't a ridiculously high bpm.TheVileOne wrote:
I consider these chain jumps. They come in hyper and non hyper forms.
Those chain jumps aren't bad once you get the hang of them. When they're screen width however, or alternating widths, that's when you have difficulty.Tenshichan wrote:
They are not so hard to do if it isn't a ridiculously high bpm.TheVileOne wrote:
I consider these chain jumps. They come in hyper and non hyper forms.
It becomes really hard when changes between hypers and non-hypers happen.
Examples of this behaviour are Homework Crisis, IVALTEK, Shokuzai Belladonna, Ijou Nashi etc etc...
However, this has been discussed many times already and no changes to it happen
So it somehow needs to be considered?
I wonder when go berzerk will be removed from thereSabi wrote:
GO BERZERK IS THE HARDEST MAP... 2 RETIRES TOP PP.. YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH PPV2
Never because he would have to revamp the system, the system is based on CTB maps and back and forth jumps and AR8 for some reason, tho everything else is correct and how HD/HR and even DT is weighed the only thing he really needs to change is some maps.. idk how to calculate the formula tho, a good example is distorted love song or even kemu life game, they are worth nothing even tho they should be worth 250+ so.. the system right now is good but not perfect, good luck lol.eldnl wrote:
I wonder when go berzerk will be removed from thereSabi wrote:
GO BERZERK IS THE HARDEST MAP... 2 RETIRES TOP PP.. YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH PPV2
The ride never ends...TheVileOne wrote:
Might as well help out by providing patterns other than back and forth jumps that make CTB hard.
Like this one
Why is https://osu.ppy.sh/b/66246?m=2 worth the same amount of pp as https://osu.ppy.sh/s/29691 ?
I think it's another example of large but easy jumps awarding too much. Plus the pace of With a Dance Number is faster. You have hard jumps and you need to be constantly dashing to keep pace. This makes it more likely to miss a fruit. You can basically take your time in the Basshunter map. Even if the jumps are larger, you have more time to prepare for them. There are much more places to break combo in With a Dance Number.
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/47540
I think Impossible on this is either underrated (only worth 145 pp for FC) or I just have seen maps that are overrated that are worth more. This is why chain jumps should be considered more difficult than each jump considered individually.
any map, just take a look ...DeathXHunter wrote:
Some examples would be cool,u know
HT is broken...eldnl wrote:
dt so broken https://osu.ppy.sh/b/36670?m=2#
Yes, but this is still a hard pattern for a lot of players. Once you can do them they seem easy, but before that they seem impossible.boomngong wrote:
edge to edge jump is overrated.
okDeathXHunter wrote:
Some examples would be cool,u know
