@irreversible I still don't understand why you refuse to answer the question. There is no reason why l

IC Hat.
If you're not voting your top scumread you are doing something wrong.

A vote implies by all means that it is your top scumread, use FoS for anything else.

A vote is movement towards you agreeing that the person deserves to death, so obviously you would be voting for the person you think is most likely to flip scum.

And there's no ambiguity with votes, Anyone can ask you "Why are you voting X?" while if someone asks you "Why are you suspecting X" you can say "No im not suspecting him, you may think i have implied it because Y"

/IC Hat

And i don't understand why you really want me to answer it. You're the most probable scum now, so your question leads into the fact that only one of them is scum. Which means, one of them is your scumbuddy, which makes no sense.

Oops

Logically you can't both say that any way that I might use those questions or answers is scummy while still answering the questions. Your and sakura's objections to how I could potentially use the answers to those questions are duly noted, but there is nothing inherently wrong with the question. The question is simply asking a. Thoughts on redo, b. thoughts on Sakura, c. Compare which you think is more town. I do not know all that much about your thoughts on this game and its players so I would like for you to share them

how can someone be more town? either he's town or scum, there's nothing in between. read my stuff and figure out what i'm thinking

what about dake btw? seems a bit uninterested in the game u.u

So quotes if you're indeed a mislynch there must be obviously some scum in this wagon, or maybe there isn't, but I know from experience that when town is on the frying pan they can see more clearly who is the scum.

Do you think scum is pushing your wagon? Do you think scum is just riding your wagon? Do you think scum is absent from your wagon?

Sakura wrote:

IC Hat.
If you're not voting your top scumread you are doing something wrong.

A vote implies by all means that it is your top scumread, use FoS for anything else.

A vote is movement towards you agreeing that the person deserves to death, so obviously you would be voting for the person you think is most likely to flip scum.

And there's no ambiguity with votes, Anyone can ask you "Why are you voting X?" while if someone asks you "Why are you suspecting X" you can say "No im not suspecting him, you may think i have implied it because Y"

/IC Hat

I guess it does miscommunicate my beliefs.

unvote
vote: redo
fos: irreversible

Irreversible wrote:

Alright Caligno, your activity increased, and currently there's no sense to leave the vote on you. What bothers me though that you mostly say 'this is wrong, you've thought about that wrong' etc.

This looks so forced.

@sakura caligno has been one of my biggest town reads and his pushing this lynch hasn't really changed that. I don't have a good read on you. Irreversibles post was pretty terrible and seems to cling to you justifying his not answering my question as a motivation behind the vote. But considering I had a vote on him it could just be angry omgus town. I'm inclined to lean scum though

Now about your previous interaction analysis. Here's a better way of doing it without flips, I dont 100% agree with this method, but it's also a good one to try before flips.

Known fact: There's 2 scum.

What to do:

1. Find person that is scummy.
2. Find another person that is scummy.
3. Check if their interactions tie them together.
If yes: Start pushing one of them while keeping an eye on the other.
If no: Repeat Number 2.
If you go through all players and you dont find anyone tied up with Number 1, Number 1 is more likely to be scummy towny than scummy scum.

EBWODP: If you dont find anyone scummy tiped up with Number 1.

*tied

Jeesh im full of typos today.

Sakura, did you work like this method you've just pointed out?

Irreversible wrote:

Sakura, did you work like this method you've just pointed out?

I don't always use it, since i prefer working with flips. This game, nope I haven't used it.

@irreversible why are you voting for me when you are clearly not reading my posts. You either are blatantly ignoring the fact that there are neither scum motivations in the questions themselves nor is there any pro town motivation to ignoring them.

For the third time, I am asking you for your opinions on players in the game because you have been fairly scummy in my mind and you have not to my knowledge done much sharing your opinions on very many players. I asked for opinions on those two players as they were the ones I had talked about most and were where most recent discussion had been directed.

Even if after actually reading my posts you think I am still scummy, thinking someone is scum does not give you an excuse to not listen to what they are saying. You can hold it to a higher level of scrutiny and should, but to blatantly ignore my posts is incredibly anti-town, and keeping a vote on me without even trying to understand what I am trying to do does absolutely no good for the village.

Tl;dr answer my questions

What do you think of redo?
What do you think of Sakura?
If you had to choose which one you found more scummy than the other, which would you choose and why?

Quotes wrote:

Tl;dr answer my questions

What do you think of redo?
What do you think of Sakura?
If you had to choose which one you found more scummy than the other, which would you choose and why?

This is exactly what is scummy about your questions, you're only asking him about me or rEdo and ignoring the rest of the playerlist, if you asked him to give his thoughts on everyone then probably it wouldn't be as bad (or not bad at all)

Really I've lost this post twice

Asking about everyone doesn't make sense since there hasn't been much between his last few posts and from my question regarding users like jinxy and saki for him to change his mind, whereas most discussion was regarding you and redo, including an ISo on redo.

Quotes wrote:

@rEdo, what did Irreversible do to earn enough "townie points" for you to take your vote off of him?

he's posted his thoughts with proper reasoning, and that was enough (for now) to make me think he's town. I'm keeping my eye on him, though.

but yeah, throwing your FoS at him just because he refused to reply your questions made me chuckle. also, I want to mention that you've never actually replied my reverse question why you aren't scum (you've quoted the entire p/2564734 post EXCEPT FOR the part where I ask you a question), but yet told so many people to state their opinions about me and Sakura. forcing the idea of me being scum just because I wanted to make kook talk and that I buddied up to Sakura because we had the same scum suspect? I'm sorry, but sounds like bullshit.


Unvote
Vote: Quotes

it's a L-1, by the way.

Mod: please prod Royston.

that should be it for that, I'm way too tired to post for now, also this post is kind of a prod dodge... was studying for like 6 hours straight. enough of analysis for me today x_x"

That is a blatant lie

@rEdo, why would you buddy in past games, but only change now that habit? I can imagine you have been called out on this before. Why make this change NOW?

like I said, I haven't heard a word from kook yet, and this is where I ask you the same question - please give me a reason why you aren't scum. that whole accusiation just pings me even harder that you've got potential to be scum. I could also browse through your ISO thoroughly, but you just popped out of nowhere and picked a person which changed his opinions more than everybody else, which places me in a worse spot as a townie just in order to get an easy lynch today.

Me thinking you are scum does not make me scum. I've already called out the most active player (Sakura) on shit and will continue to do so, since everyone else but Caligno seems unwilling to do so. I posted the ISO on you because you stood out the most as the most obvious scum. The Sakura thing came later when I asked myself who would be your most likely partner. My posts have been spur of the moment and honest in my own estimation, although I can see if you have trouble seeing that I am being honest with calling you scum! I also apparently didn't fail whatever test Sakura was doing. I've explained most of my thoughts regarding lynches and on who I believe scum to be and have backed them up with evidence.

Am I missing anything?[/quote]

p/2565079

no, scratch it, I actually missed that one paragraph where you reply. still, I ain't gonna be a scapegoat for you.

^ yeah, I just noticed that

It's fine i've missed things this game before

Quotes wrote:

@rEdo, why would you buddy in past games, but only change now that habit? I can imagine you have been called out on this before. Why make this change NOW?

I didn't necessarily change the habit of buddying since I tagged along Sakura in Irreversible's case.

@redo, so to clarify, you find me scummy because I wanted people to focus on you and Sakura?

I did this because hardly anyone else had done so beforehand. It would be ignorant and anti-town for me not to put pressure on a. a strong scum suspect (you) and b. the most talkative and controlling townie who hadnt had too much pressure all game (although I could have done much better, Sakura)

rEdo wrote:

Quotes wrote:

@rEdo, why would you buddy in past games, but only change now that habit? I can imagine you have been called out on this before. Why make this change NOW?

I didn't necessarily change the habit of buddying since I tagged along Sakura in Irreversible's case.

I was referring to where you said "but I won't do it anymore," not to what you did beforehand.

Quotes wrote:

@redo, so to clarify, you find me scummy because I wanted people to focus on you and Sakura?

providing you're scum, that would be a really comfortable play for you to start accusing people right off the bat when you get into the game in like the 18th page where your predecessor hasn't said virtually anything, and nobody really has any argument to use against you yet, even though kook was considered scummy before.

Quotes wrote:

I was referring to where you said "but I won't do it anymore," not to what you did beforehand.

people tend to bitch about that in my every game, and I grew tired of it. >_>"

It's proactive town play to come in accusing people of being scum. I am a fresh face and from a first glance, I had ascertained that you were my top scum suspect (and had received very little attention before) and that Sakura was essentially leading most of the topics of discussion. There is no reason for me not to come in and accuse people of being scum. That's what you're supposed to do to find mafia. - you pressure people and you make sure that everyone receives some pressure that you can use later on. Day 1 is by far the most important day of mafia imo, so using the little amount of time that I had in day 1 effectively was a priority. I'm recognizing now from Sakura and Caligno's posts that my play may not have been ideal but I still very much stand by the motivations for pressing you and Sakura, and I still fail to see how my focus on you two as a scumteam was inherently scummy, although Sakura's point about playing it more passively and asking for interactions between the two of you may have been better. Then again, given Sakura's and your incredibly limited direct interaction, perhaps not.

As it is a new page,

I AM AT L-1. PLEASE HOLD OFF ON VOTING FOR ME, EVEN IF YOU ARE INCLINED TO DO SO.

We still have a reasonable amount of time left in the day so we should use as much of it as humanly possible.

I'll be back in like 30 minutes.

If it approves that you're scum i'm going to vote caligno next, because you always are talking super suspciously good about him, which is not a good idea imo.

and wtf, that escalated quickly. quotes it seems like you're panicking right now? for my question: currently, i think both are town. but as I said, it depends what happens next.

Quotes, give me some exact reason why I should think you're town

>it's proactive town play
and having that in mind and getting a scum role after kook, you decided to blatantly push a person that seemed most scummy (except from your scum partner) just to get an easy lynch on a townie.

that should do for today. I'm seriously way too tired to talk for now, especially that you're going afk now, I shall take my leave to bed (goddamn quarter past midnight and I have to wake up at six) x.x"

I'm ok with a Quotes lynch, he went like panicking after rEdo's vote and kook was scummy already, if he's scum, gg; if he's town, I'm leaning for Irre or rEdo.

Also, I'm willing to hammer Quotes.

@Irre: can you explain further on why you will vote Caligno if Quotes is scum? Why didn't you stick with your actual vote on Caligno and jumped on Quotes' wagon?

Irre's posts are calling my attention lately.

Irreversible wrote:

Unvote

Alright Caligno, your activity increased, and currently there's no sense to leave the vote on you. What bothers me though that you mostly say 'this is wrong, you've thought about that wrong' etc.

How do you vote people based merely on activity and then unvoting when he started posting again?

If Quotes is scum, then he's likely town due Quotes' empty vote on him.

@Quotes: would you share your reads with us?

Dake obvtown
Caligno probtown
Jinxy probtown
Royston lean town
Saki idk
Sakura idk
Irreversible probscum
Redo very probscum

That was quick, why I'm obvious town?

was this just a statement that you're definetly scum quotes? Dake joins the game, you want him to be your friend, this seems odd to me.

@dake, i'll explain it tomorrow because i'm sleepy now, and i'm going to sleep

No he's been my top town read all game. I lost my last post with 15 reasons why I am town hold up

If people hasnt focused on us, there must be a reason, I do thank you for showing me the fishy behavior rEdo had been doing because I was missing it (I'm a sucker for buddying)

Irreversible wrote:

If it approves that you're scum i'm going to vote caligno next, because you always are talking super suspciously good about him, which is not a good idea imo.

and wtf, that escalated quickly. quotes it seems like you're panicking right now? for my question: currently, i think both are town. but as I said, it depends what happens next.

Quotes, give me some exact reason why I should think you're town

Fair and accurate ISo of a scummy player with 0 complaints from anyone, including little to no answer or justification from the player that I iso'd.

Pressure on scummy to neutral players, especially in the case of redo. I don't think there had been any discussion of the possibility of redo scum before my bringing it up, and the other players I've pressured or attempted to pressure have all been fairly scummy.

Willingness to admit that my initial reads on Sakura were weak without Sakura or anyone else directly refuting any of them to my knowledge. It was in towns best interest that I explain that while my initial read on Sakura was justified, it was not very strong and not worth lynching over.

Continuing to attempt to scum hunt and be pro town even with votes on me. I still very much want an answer to the question that you keep fucking ignoring irreversible. I would rant here about how utterly moronic you are being in your refusal to share information that can help you look less scummy but that is not supposed to be the purpose of this post.

Quick, non agonized responses to questions on why I did what I did and what my motivations for doing so were. I have not had to come up with stupid lies for what I'm doing because I am not lying. Look at how quick my responses to most questions of me is for some indication.

None of the pressure on me deals with the motivations behind why I'm posting as I am. I have been trying to find scum all game and to take charge in doing so. Calignos point is that my questions were loaded. I immediately agreed with this, because that was the point. Sakura followed for the prior move of grouping her with redo and thinking this was a scum tactic for an easy 2nd mislynch. I still find this logic flawed since it assumes that this is a primary factor in a lynch vote which it should not be and I pointed again to my backing off of formal suspicion of her. She then felt even stronger in her opinion when I voted irreversible for being stupid (don't care it is stupid). After her point on how votes should be reserved for top suspects I backed off and votes my top suspect.

My views have been fairly consistent, outside of arguably the irreversible vote. But he blatantly was ignoring my posts, as is evidenced by his post about "that's a lot of pressure why don't you vote" when I had done so long before. I tended to agree with caligno that the backing off by redo on irreversible was suspicious. (Even now all redo had said is "his responses were probtown" without explaining why)

I'm sure there are more reasons