Quotes wrote:

Redirecting any possible pressure that would be placed on rEdo. Even now Sakura refuses to interact with rEdo as if she is afraid he'll say something stupid.

now that was mean :­(

Quotes wrote:

Why are you trying so hard to defeat the you/Sakura scumteam and defend Sakura instead of giving me a decent reason why YOU aren't scum?

the reason is simple - our scumsuspects were similar, and that's it. plus I tend to buddy up to people in my games :­D if we both were scum, we wouldn't just blatantly duo-force people to talk, that would seem way too obvious for air-headed people like you, isn't that right? Sakura seems rather town to me, so I guessed it would be easier to say that she's hunting scum that actually defending myself, since you wouldn't believe me with this attitude anyway.

about giving you a decent reason why I'm not scum - I've tried to make people who looked scummy in my eyes talk. my suspects were kook, recently Jinxy and Irreversible so far, and since I saw Sakura trying to make him talk, I didn't see a reason why I shouldn't tag along - pressure from even more people makes people more likely to talk. I have indeed buddied up to Sakura at that point, but that's the end to it. however, I haven't heard a single word from kook yet, which leaves me really unsatisfied. as for now I could say that Royston is also acting pretty weird, but it's not enough for me to make any accusiations, as right now I wanna push an another wagon anyway, and I believe I'm working in a good way.

like I said, I haven't heard a word from kook yet, and this is where I ask you the same question - please give me a reason why you aren't scum. that whole accusiation just pings me even harder that you've got potential to be scum. I could also browse through your ISO thoroughly, but you just popped out of nowhere and picked a person which changed his opinions more than everybody else, which places me in a worse spot as a townie just in order to get an easy lynch today.

It does, newbies arent bastard

Partner speculation early on will really hurt town in the long run, suppose you lynch me, I flip town then you're gonna say "So rEdo's scum for buddying her" suppose he flips town too, then you're at LyLo with zero info to go on and scumhunt, if someone flips scum then yes, their interactions are something to look at.

Otherwise looks like a nice way for scum to setup mislynches for others.

And yes i consider your interaction analisis almost as bad as the TvS tell.

Ok I was going to be really mad if I was in a game with no cardflip. I hate no cardflip, there's no reward after a lynch of knowing you lynched correctly or not.

Sakura wrote:

So you werent paying attention to the votes, yet you noticed that rEdo voted him (even tho it was L-2 and not L-1 vote)

...Seriously? I thought it was obvious that I meant the votecount, since the extra requirement makes it harder to know which votes actually count. Who the heck doesn't notice bolded votes?

rEdo wrote:

plus I tend to buddy up to people in my games :­D

Trying to explain away an anti-town tell with the classic "I always do that" excuse, I see.

rEdo wrote:

I could also browse through [Quotes's] ISO thoroughly, but [he] just popped out of nowhere and picked a person which changed his opinions more than everybody else, which places me in a worse spot as a townie just in order to get an easy lynch today.

Wait, what? This is pinging me. Someone else catches you being inconsistent, and you're calling him scummy for it?
Vote: rEdo

Sakura wrote:

And yes i consider your interaction analisis almost as bad as the TvS tell.

What's the TvS tell?

TvS tell when scum sees 2 townies arguing and says "This is a Town vs Scum fight" hence gets one lynched and flips town and goes "Oh then the scum is the other one" then lynches the other one who also flips town, then they scored 2 mislynches without much effort, which is why when someone says that they consider it a scumtell.

Unvote

Well, first of all, I understand the word 'flip' itself, but I don't really get the meaning of it - what do you mean with that when you're talking about it? Sakura, you've asked me this question once, and I didn't answer to it, because I didn't understand why you I were voting without flipping.

Secondly, reDo, you're wagonning so much aren't you? You've just did it again. Mostly with Sakura as well, but I don't think you both would make it so suspicious. With your last post that kook isn't posting you've made yourself a bit more scumside, because you've mentioned him several times in your post, which shows me a kind of panic that people get their votes on you, while you try to put attention on kook.

About Caligno: Why so quiet AGAIN?

And Quotes: About the random voting stuff. I thought you mean the normal posts, but as I saw you were talking about the first random votes, well, ok.

flipping is when the mod reveals the alignment and role of a player (usually by death)

Irreversible wrote:

Secondly, reDo, you're wagonning so much aren't you? You've just did it again. Mostly with Sakura as well, but I don't think you both would make it so suspicious. With your last post that kook isn't posting you've made yourself a bit more scumside, because you've mentioned him several times in your post, which shows me a kind of panic that people get their votes on you, while you try to put attention on kook.

not necessarily wagoning, I just wanted to clarify the fact that kook wasn't active at all, while giving me a gloomy feeling with his posts. that's why I'm forcing that statement, and that I'd like to hear why Quotes would not be scum. however, he has no real ISO except for accusing me, and that's rather frustrating that he can just mock people with a high possibility of being scum himself, and nobody can post anything against him. also, at the same time Quotes got into the game, Jinxy gave me a feeling of being way more confident in his posts, and that gave me even more of a gloomy feeling, hence my vote.

Where the heck did I make a TvS argument? I'm telling people that both Sakura and rEdo are mafia. I fail to see at what point I am painting this idea of "one of the two are scum"

Sakura wrote:

And yes i consider your interaction analisis almost as bad as the TvS tell.

learn2read

And back to your analysis if we 2 were scum, what would be the purpose of avoiding interaction with my scumpartner?

Alright, let's go back to Caligno then, won't unvote until he made a clear post he's town.

CalignoBot

I'm a bit unsure about this wagoning all the time, but since CalignoBot made the worse ones imo, my vote stays on him.

Vote: CalignoBot omg sorry ¬¬

Irreversible wrote:

About Caligno: Why so quiet AGAIN?

Two entire pages popped up while I was asleep and I'm never in a mood to catch up on that amount of posts until I've been awake for a few hours. If you're going to try to use that argument, take times into account.

I have yet to see a remotely persuasive case from you, too.

Sakura wrote:

Normally when people replace into scumslots tend to give some amished tell, which is why when people replace in I always ask them their thoughts on their predecessor.

Yeah, no. The amished tell only works when they're not told to give their thoughts.

---

The L-1 issue is dead null.

Sakura+rEdo scumteam has some merit after the top of page 19. That's not a persuasive point at all to vote for the single most protown player in the game up to this point. If one of them ends up flipping scum, the other goes straight to the top of my list. It really irks me how both of them tried to turn the tables back on Quotes after he put pressure on them as a first response.

I thought you were better than that, considering how you super buddied me on tit for tat when you were scum knowing I was town.

You should be able to tell the difference between that situation and this one pretty easily.

CalignoBot wrote:

You should be able to tell the difference between that situation and this one pretty easily.

The only difference that I can see is that I was lynchbait there.

@Sakura, how have you not responded to my ISO on rEdo yet? Is there something I am missing or are incorrect in assuming in my read on him? Clearly you implicitly think I am wrong in my read by continuing to believe that I am wrong in my push, but yet say absolutely nothing about your own thoughts on rEdo and why you think what you do.

Please tell me why you think he is town

Please Quotes, this is so senseless. I don't think either of them would be so stupid that they would make it so obvious - if they were scumpartners, they would act differently, I strongly suppose. It COULD be one of them is scum, but I dont think they're scumpartners.

What about the inactive ones btw?

rEdo wrote:

Quotes wrote:

Why are you trying so hard to defeat the you/Sakura scumteam and defend Sakura instead of giving me a decent reason why YOU aren't scum?

the reason is simple - our scumsuspects were similar, and that's it. plus I tend to buddy up to people in my games :­D if we both were scum, we wouldn't just blatantly duo-force people to talk, that would seem way too obvious for air-headed people like you, isn't that right? Sakura seems rather town to me, so I guessed it would be easier to say that she's hunting scum that actually defending myself, since you wouldn't believe me with this attitude anyway.

This is WIFOM and incorrect at the same time. It is WIFOM because doing something because it is "too obvious" becomes an infinite cycle, where if the mafia believe they can appear town by doing it, they will. You are also incorrect because the manner in which you interact is so over the top in the buddying that it becomes a scummy parody of itself.

about giving you a decent reason why I'm not scum - I've tried to make people who looked scummy in my eyes talk. my suspects were kook, recently Jinxy and Irreversible so far, and since I saw Sakura trying to make him talk, I didn't see a reason why I shouldn't tag along - pressure from even more people makes people more likely to talk. I have indeed buddied up to Sakura at that point, but that's the end to it. however, I haven't heard a single word from kook yet, which leaves me really unsatisfied. as for now I could say that Royston is also acting pretty weird, but it's not enough for me to make any accusiations, as right now I wanna push an another wagon anyway, and I believe I'm working in a good way.

I've already noted that your making Irreversible talk was fairly pro-town.

Your votes on kook still irk me. Admittedly I should be biased in that regard since I essentially am kook now, but I feel as though my ISO outlined fairly well why your push on him felt inauthentic. You pushed him when he was not lurky - he was afk, and fairly obviously so.

I haven't really looked too closely at the Jinxy vote but it looks like it was mostly based on him posting something incorrect based on me being incorrect. This comes off as "I don't like what Quotes posted but he scares me, so I will vote for someone that agrees with him." Will re-read the more recent posts because it's clear my look through before already has had some mistakes (as is evidenced by misreading Sakura's TvS thing)

@rEdo, why would you buddy in past games, but only change now that habit? I can imagine you have been called out on this before. Why make this change NOW?

like I said, I haven't heard a word from kook yet, and this is where I ask you the same question - please give me a reason why you aren't scum. that whole accusiation just pings me even harder that you've got potential to be scum. I could also browse through your ISO thoroughly, but you just popped out of nowhere and picked a person which changed his opinions more than everybody else, which places me in a worse spot as a townie just in order to get an easy lynch today.

Me thinking you are scum does not make me scum. I've already called out the most active player (Sakura) on shit and will continue to do so, since everyone else but Caligno seems unwilling to do so. I posted the ISO on you because you stood out the most as the most obvious scum. The Sakura thing came later when I asked myself who would be your most likely partner. My posts have been spur of the moment and honest in my own estimation, although I can see if you have trouble seeing that I am being honest with calling you scum! I also apparently didn't fail whatever test Sakura was doing. I've explained most of my thoughts regarding lynches and on who I believe scum to be and have backed them up with evidence.

Am I missing anything?

@rEdo, what did Irreversible do to earn enough "townie points" for you to take your vote off of him?

Sakura wrote:

It does, newbies arent bastard

Partner speculation early on will really hurt town in the long run, suppose you lynch me, I flip town then you're gonna say "So rEdo's scum for buddying her" suppose he flips town too, then you're at LyLo with zero info to go on and scumhunt, if someone flips scum then yes, their interactions are something to look at.

Otherwise looks like a nice way for scum to setup mislynches for others.

Sakura, I didn't know that I was voting for you. The only way that your argument holds weight is if you are the one that is lynched today. If rEdo is lynched and comes up town, you come off as neutral (it just means rEdo thought you were town, and either you were purposefully playing into his buddying or legitimately had a very strong town read on him or simply didnt notice a lack of pressure on your behalf). I have done very little to accuse you of being scum directly, I am just making the point that your interactions with rEdo have been incredibly weird and worth noting come day 2 if rEdo flips scum. I have no strong opinions on any of the other players in this regard since I have literally just subbed in.

I haven't yet done a strong ISO on you yet; I just glanced over it for rEdo interaction to see if my initial hunch in the game had any bearing. It seems it did, so I shared as much. There is no reason for me to withhold information that could be used to locate a 2nd scum.

For an outline of the admittedly limited reasons I have stated for why Sakura is worth putting pressure on:

1. Wasted the village's time early game in
a. kook lynch
b. speculation regarding whether what he was doing was role phishing
c. Arguing over what he did was really IIoA or not

This shit went on for 10 pages. Either is a function of Sakura having a complex of never being wrong or of wanting to waste the village's time. She's very clearly been the one leading the discussions, and when so much time is wasted on a player who isn't going to respond, you deserve criticism. Own it, you played badly early game. Your more recent interactions with me do not inspire confidence with me

2. The interactions with rEdo are weird.

I outlined them both in the Sakura quick ISO post and the rEdo iso post. rEdo does very similar things to people she DOES push and yet she does nothing about this. This seems consciously inconsistent.

Fairly certain that's all I've said already with regards to Sakura. The fact that she got incredibly pissy and defending of rEdo rather than noting how weak any push I was putting on her (I didn't even vote her) indicates to me that there actually might be something to what I said before about rEdo/Sakura.

Quotes wrote:

Please tell me why you think he is town

The fun fact, is that I've stated quite the opposite.

Sakura wrote:

CalignoBot wrote:

You should be able to tell the difference between that situation and this one pretty easily.

The only difference that I can see is that I was lynchbait there.

No.

In that game, I constantly pointed out that you were really obviously town. I have not once stated that same thing about Jinxy, only that he's town compared to everyone else. Now that you've slipped into a more nullish territory, he's the only real townread I have right now.

Uh that's not what I mean, I mean the way rEdo's buddying me feels similar how you kept obvtowning me that game (and you were scum)

...

Please quote specifically what you're responding to next time, please. I'll go re-look now that I know what you're talking about.

and I totally lost myself in that game

Quote, if you write so much, why don't you just give your vote? seems quite unnecessary that you write tons of text with no action behind it. probably all reaction test, but yeah

One thing in particular stood out while I was rereading rEdo.

rEdo wrote:

Quotes wrote:

@rEdo, why should I vote for Sakura instead of you?

there's no reason why you should vote for either Sakura or me. Sakura has been trying to push people under the wall in order to force them to talk, and that's what I also tried to make kook talk. we also pushed Irreversible to make him talk, and look, that actually worked since he stated his thoughts about this game so far. that rEdo/Sakura scumteam you've mentioned wouldn't so blatantly push the same person at the same time, don't you think?

FoS: Quotes

That question reeks. Really badly.

The answer doesn't reek as much, but I'm not liking it much either. It's his first time stating any kind of real read on Sakura, which is a little disturbing since this indicates it's a pretty strong town one. I can easily see this being a scumteam pairing or a buddying tactic.

However, that's the first problem with the 'scum buddying a town' argument. This is literally the only post I can see a hint of it in. I'll get into the second one at the bottom of this post.

Anyway, I've found another nugget in rEdo's ISO that I had skimmed over earlier due to my ever-present laziness when it comes to a lot of and/or giant posts.

rEdo wrote:

Quotes wrote:

Why are you trying so hard to defeat the you/Sakura scumteam and defend Sakura instead of giving me a decent reason why YOU aren't scum?

the reason is simple - our scumsuspects were similar, and that's it. plus I tend to buddy up to people in my games :­D if we both were scum, we wouldn't just blatantly duo-force people to talk, that would seem way too obvious for air-headed people like you, isn't that right? Sakura seems rather town to me, so I guessed it would be easier to say that she's hunting scum that actually defending myself, since you wouldn't believe me with this attitude anyway.

It's admitting Quotes is correct, then trying to downplay it and turn it back onto its sender.

And honestly, now that I've went through his ISO again, Irreversible looks a lot more like the target of a buddying tactic by rEdo. Even though the latter has been drilling the former for a decent chunk of the game, it doesn't look sincere. Then he drops the scumread for a reason I can't figure out.

Oh my, all these posts. Welcome Quotes.

FoS: rEdo

The sheeping is noticeable from miles away.

rEdo wrote:

Quotes wrote:

Why are you trying so hard to defeat the you/Sakura scumteam and defend Sakura instead of giving me a decent reason why YOU aren't scum?

the reason is simple - our scumsuspects were similar, and that's it.

It's true that rEdo always sticks with someone in every game I've played with him, but this one catches my attention as it seems more serious than in other games, which is more "sheeping for no reasons". Yeah, going with meta is somehow wrong, but it caught my attention.

Royston wrote:

Irreversible wrote:

still don't get why you unvoted so late..

I was afraid Lilac was going to modkill me for being retarded (see rule 1) or something like that.

Irreversible wrote:

Quote, if you write so much, why don't you just give your vote? seems quite unnecessary that you write tons of text with no action behind it. probably all reaction test, but yeah

wat

My 2nd post was a vote for rEdo. I have kept this vote ever since.

nvm to that then

CalignoBot wrote:

One thing in particular stood out while I was rereading rEdo.

Quotes wrote:

@rEdo, why should I vote for Sakura instead of you?

rEdo wrote:

there's no reason why you should vote for either Sakura or me. Sakura has been trying to push people under the wall in order to force them to talk, and that's what I also tried to make kook talk. we also pushed Irreversible to make him talk, and look, that actually worked since he stated his thoughts about this game so far. that rEdo/Sakura scumteam you've mentioned wouldn't so blatantly push the same person at the same time, don't you think?

FoS: Quotes

That question reeks. Really badly.

Why is the question scummy? It's essentially the same question as "what are your thoughts on Sakura" with added pressure.

Yes, role and alignment will be revealed on death. This is a newbie game, far out.

If Rule 1 actually did apply, half of the players here would be modkilled. However, I'm sorta nice.

Saki, get here and post you. I will replace you with Sephibro if I have to.

@irreversable, what do you think of rEdo and Sakura? Do you find either of them scummy? If you had to choose which one is MORE scummy out of the two, which would you choose and why?

CalignoBot wrote:

One thing in particular stood out while I was rereading rEdo.

Quotes wrote:

@rEdo, why should I vote for Sakura instead of you?

rEdo wrote:

there's no reason why you should vote for either Sakura or me. Sakura has been trying to push people under the wall in order to force them to talk, and that's what I also tried to make kook talk. we also pushed Irreversible to make him talk, and look, that actually worked since he stated his thoughts about this game so far. that rEdo/Sakura scumteam you've mentioned wouldn't so blatantly push the same person at the same time, don't you think?

FoS: Quotes

That question reeks. Really badly.

Quotes wrote:

Why is the question scummy? It's essentially the same question as "what are your thoughts on Sakura" with added pressure.

Your original question has no basis onto it. It's essentially a loaded question.

For a bonus, here is your response to that answer:

Quotes wrote:

Either is blatant buddying or is trying to use Sakura's act of being the one leading the Irreversible push as a reason why HE is townie, both of which are scummy.

Why are you trying so hard to defeat the you/Sakura scumteam and defend Sakura instead of giving me a decent reason why YOU aren't scum?

This is slimy as all hell. Quotes originally asked rEdo why Sakura was scum (despite rEdo never once detailing any sort of suspicion of that kind), then turned around his answer to state that he should have tried to detail why he himself was not scum in the second line of his response post. It's putting enough doubt on his intentions that I can't think he believes in what he says in the first line.

The entire exchange is incredibly manipulative.

Unvote: Whoever I was voting
Vote: Quotes

I may need a sub as my laptop keyboard is essentially shot from spilling baileys all over it, and posting from a phone all the time sucks since I can't easily quote (hue) other posts to prove a point. It also means its harder to put pressure and near impossible to do a strong ISo on anyone.

@caligno why do you have a problem with me placing pressure on a player when we only have, what, 2 days left? I do not see the harm in asking leading or loaded questions if these questions serve a purpose. They set from the outset that I probably had a fairly strong scum read on redo, am an aggressive player, and that simply sheeping along with other players isn't acceptable. They also set in some level of panic regardless of alliance and village panic vs mafia panic are often distinguishable

You seem to assume that my thoughts on the game are "imma tunnel Sakura and redo super hard since I already know the scum" which is stupid. It's just useful

Quotes wrote:

@irreversable, what do you think of rEdo and Sakura? Do you find either of them scummy? If you had to choose which one is MORE scummy out of the two, which would you choose and why?

For what reason are you asking this?