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ONE OK ROCK - The Beginning
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Do you know what "fit the song" means? It means that it should CLEARLY follow the instruments of it,otherwise how could it fit? I checked the map,and I agree that there is a TOTALLY HIGH amount of unneded hitobjects,which are based on absolutely nothing,and that there are many places in which the flow gets totally broken. Please,do not explain saying "this fits the song",because I found almost nothing in the whole diff to follow it properly. Besides, saying that a pattern is "readable" is totally subjective: while there are some players which can play them without any problems, there are players which do not absolutely understand the changes of spacing and rhythm used there.Flower wrote:
That is not overmapped because it fits the song. That applies in osu mode. It fits the song, and is readable, the pattern is not overmapped.
tl;dr: Please,refrain from acting like this, everyone has it's opinions, but it seems like you're acting like the most experience person in the earth. Remember that this is a RHYTHM GAME,and if a map doesen't match the rhythm of a map,why should it be called BEATmap then?
pssst kevincela you quoted the wrong guy
and you messed up his post, poor dude
and you messed up his post, poor dude
Haha I know,I pressed "Edit" instead of "Quote" for error! Orz,I still have to get used with it...Mr Color wrote:
pssst kevincela you quoted the wrong guy
and you messed up his post, poor dude
This should anyways be fixed soon lol
wow guys if you're gonna remove the posts I reference at least delete mine as well :'(
It's fine. I replicated it. lol
I should correct you. FITTING the music does not mean FOLLOWING. You may dislike DJMAX Technika, but you should learn something from it -- Creating a rhythm is a skill.-kevincela- wrote:
Do you know what "fit the song" means? It means that it should CLEARLY follow the instruments of it,otherwise how could it fit? I checked the map,and I agree that there is a TOTALLY HIGH amount of unneded hitobjects,which are based on absolutely nothing,and that there are many places in which the flow gets totally broken. Please,do not explain saying "this fits the song",because I found almost nothing in the whole diff to follow it properly. Besides, saying that a pattern is "readable" is totally subjective: while there are some players which can play them without any problems, there are players which do not absolutely understand the changes of spacing and rhythm used there.
tl;dr: Please,refrain from acting like this, everyone has it's opinions, but it seems like you're acting like the most experience person in the earth. Remember that this is a RHYTHM GAME,and if a map doesen't match the rhythm of a map,why should it be called BEATmap then?
You state many notes to be unneeded. Howeverm they are based on sense of rhythm, which means the patterns presents the song in a different way, rather than using claps to imitate the drum.
You are also talking about flow. Following the flow is not the only mapping technique. Breaking the flow makes some specific effect, and this song does not present it unnaturally.
I don't know where your difficulty is, but I can understand the rhythms presented by the mapper.
Yes, readable or not is a subjective standard, but this map is readable for the players that is capable for the difficulty. You should not expect the ones who just played osu for one day to follow it.
And finally, I return this word to you.
Please,refrain from acting like this, everyone has it's opinions, but it seems like you're acting like the most experience person in the earth. Remember that this is a RHYTHM GAME,and if a map doesen't match the rhythm of a map,why should it be called BEATmap then?
Man you're on a roll aren't you
Topic Starter
Please,refrain from acting like this, everyone has it's opinions, but it seems like you're acting like the most experience person in the earth.
too many people use diff rhythm in they map, and then they get rank, why I can not
Triples are all useful in this map
yes osu it is rhythm game, but if it just is a RHYTHM GAME, it will be boring, it is why many mapper will use some "unnecessary" note to design they map, and many map get rank
I need said osu is a rhythm game also is a
too many people use diff rhythm in they map, and then they get rank, why I can not
Triples are all useful in this map
yes osu it is rhythm game, but if it just is a RHYTHM GAME, it will be boring, it is why many mapper will use some "unnecessary" note to design they map, and many map get rank
I need said osu is a rhythm game also is a
^because THIS is the way which osu use it to describe the rhythmLoctav wrote:
"Lets click random circles with music going in the background" game.
You can't be serious...
Topic Starter
I am so serious about this map because this is the first map which I get unrankLoctav wrote:
You can't be serious...
because I want to keep this style to make it rerank so I talking with your guys until now
Are you suggesting we compile a list of all these maps and unrank all of them?tutuhaha wrote:
too many people use diff rhythm in they map, and then they get rank, why I can not
It's not. We map to the music, and we don't map to nothing. You can keep assuming this is the way, or you can change your way of thinking to get this map reranked and future maps ranked.tutuhaha wrote:
because THIS is the way which osu use it to describe the rhythm
You can make the list, and let players and mappers discuss on them. Be objective, seriously.those wrote:
Are you suggesting we compile a list of all these maps and unrank all of them?
You are wrong. We map as music, not to the music. This is the basic concept as a mapper.those wrote:
It's not. We map to the music, and we don't map to nothing. You can keep assuming this is the way, or you can change your way of thinking to get this map reranked and future maps ranked.
This is gonna be one of the hardest unrank conversations I can tell.
I think you got this wrong. :/Flower wrote:
You are wrong. We map as music, not to the music. This is the basic concept as a mapper.
why? this map never will get reranked if tutuhaha doesn't change his atitude. pretty easy discussion i think.Philippines wrote:
This is gonna be one of the hardest unrank conversations I can tell.
man Germany's all over this
Loctav's popular ain't he
Loctav's popular ain't he
What is the point then? Isn't creating a different style besides the music a mapping style?lolcubes wrote:
I think you got this wrong. :/Flower wrote:
You are wrong. We map as music, not to the music. This is the basic concept as a mapper.
3 dudes is all over the place?Mr Color wrote:
man Germany's all over this
Loctav's popular ain't he
You are supposed to create the perfect overlay of the song.
This map is an overlay of a song that is somehow not included in this mapset.
This map is an overlay of a song that is somehow not included in this mapset.
yeah I'd say that's about accurateTanzklaue wrote:
3 dudes is all over the place?Mr Color wrote:
man Germany's all over this
Loctav's popular ain't he
http://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/InsaneFlower wrote:
You are wrong. We map as music, not to the music. This is the basic concept as a mapper.
Please read.
Topic Starter
I suggesting your guys need think about it, because it is very impotence that they use this way and they get very Good results, not bad that your saidthose wrote:
Are you suggesting we compile a list of all these maps and unrank all of them?tutuhaha wrote:
too many people use diff rhythm in they map, and then they get rank, why I can notIt's not. We map to the music, and we don't map to nothing. You can keep assuming this is the way, or you can change your way of thinking to get this map reranked and future maps ranked.tutuhaha wrote:
because THIS is the way which osu use it to describe the rhythm
it is truth. We map to the music for the osu, why this is osu better than another good music game
because osu can give they many many chance to play the style which they like or the rhythm which they think it is good for then
and you need think about if "use the normal rhythm, unnecessary and overmap is unrankable" is rank rule, how about just unrank all map after 2011？
Mercurial
Pointing at other maps doesnt make this one better.
Mercurial
tutuhaha wrote:
and you need think about if "use the normal rhythm, unnecessary and overmap is unrankable" is rank rule, how about just unrank all map after 2011？
This... also, if we're looking for the past... U.N. Owen was her? is unrankable, but well, it's still there.Loctav wrote:
Pointing at other maps doesnt make this one better.
Hey, might as well contribute to this.
First of all, tutuhaha, I respect you as a mapper, but I don't like your ONE OK ROCK maps at all for too high spacing, overmapping, jumps at calm parts etc.etc.
a few examples in Dance diff
00:27:680 (1) - what's with this slider. it looks like 2008
00:35:262 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -
00:49:768 (1,2,3) - overmapped, flowbreaking
01:04:797 (1,2,3) - like really bad
01:31:183 (1,2,3,4,5) - the first slider is flowbreaking and the jumps just don't make sense at all.
Also, the thousands of triplets
You are forcing too much difficulty in this song =/
First of all, tutuhaha, I respect you as a mapper, but I don't like your ONE OK ROCK maps at all for too high spacing, overmapping, jumps at calm parts etc.etc.
a few examples in Dance diff
00:27:680 (1) - what's with this slider. it looks like 2008
00:35:262 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -
00:49:768 (1,2,3) - overmapped, flowbreaking
01:04:797 (1,2,3) - like really bad
01:31:183 (1,2,3,4,5) - the first slider is flowbreaking and the jumps just don't make sense at all.
Also, the thousands of triplets
You are forcing too much difficulty in this song =/
it was only coincidence for me :vMr Color wrote:
man Germany's all over this
Loctav's popular ain't he
hi tutuhahatutuhaha wrote:
more XAT come to discuss it？
I'm here to just tell only my opinion xD
firstly, I'm sorry but I quite disagree the way you map on Dance diff.
The map is really good , it's clean and easy to read.. but I just feel "is it too hard?"
I'm one of many average players as you may know. I like playing lot of hard maps too !! but it's just..
it fits the atmosphere of the song.. but it's quite overdone in my opinion.. some jumps are too hard but the music isn't hard like that
hope you understand my point = =" and Good Luck for the map : )
Topic Starter
pointing at other map because I try to explain my way which use this map is feasible because in first post you said it is unrankableLoctav wrote:
Pointing at other maps doesnt make this one better.
100 people has 100 idea about "better"
I dont think your guys's proposal can make this map more better now because we have different idea about how to design map and design rhythm
it is another cause why I pointing other map
This is not about "better" or "worse".
The [Dance] has huge flaws. Not like "optional stuff that MIGHT be changed", but like "stuff that is OBVIOUSLY and CLEARLY wrong".
Just because the map is fitting all existing ranking criteria, it does not mean, it is rankable at all.
I won't hinder your creativity or ambitions to map or anything. But if you put a map as huge clusterfuck without any point and sense, where anything in the music is getting totally lost, then this is unrankable.
The map is utterly nonsense and not creative.
We discussed this internally before I unranked it. And everyone agreed.
The [Dance] has huge flaws. Not like "optional stuff that MIGHT be changed", but like "stuff that is OBVIOUSLY and CLEARLY wrong".
Just because the map is fitting all existing ranking criteria, it does not mean, it is rankable at all.
I won't hinder your creativity or ambitions to map or anything. But if you put a map as huge clusterfuck without any point and sense, where anything in the music is getting totally lost, then this is unrankable.
The map is utterly nonsense and not creative.
We discussed this internally before I unranked it. And everyone agreed.
The page was last updated on 3 September 2012, when the new ranking criteria page has not been created. I question its credibility.MMzz wrote:
http://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/InsaneFlower wrote:
You are wrong. We map as music, not to the music. This is the basic concept as a mapper.
Please read.
To say the least,
If there is no sudden change that requires (or could greatly be supplemented with) difficulty increasing techniques, then simply don't add them.It suggests that if such change applies, then those techniques could be performed. E.g. the triple notes on 00:23:230 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - .
I wonder if more than 50% maps with Insane this year (and in the future) would (have) been ranked according to the criteria. Clicking the notes when drum hits or the singer gives a word? Is that fun? Remember, osu is not a instrument-following training application, it is made just for fun.
Besides, such light overmapping (if it really exists) does not affect it to be ranked. It can be raised in the moddings, but the mapper has right to choose taking it or not, while not affecting the ranking procress.
You are absolutely correct. All power to change a beatmap lies solely in the mapper's hands, but the staff has the final say of whether something will be ranked or not.Flower wrote:
It can be raised in the moddings, but the mapper has right to choose taking it or not.
Dude, that's the concept of rhythm games: performing according to the music. If you don't like this then rhythm games are not your genre.Flower wrote:
Clicking the notes when drum hits or the singer gives a word? Is that fun? Remember, osu is not a instrument-following training application, it is made just for fun.
Really high spacing, high SV, anti flow patterns.... even if there was no overmapping, this is just completely unnecessary for this type of song.
If you want this map to get ranked again, im sure a lot of us will be happy to help you and mod it.
If you want this map to get ranked again, im sure a lot of us will be happy to help you and mod it.
Nope. You are stating the rigid definition which does not fit all music games such as Taiko no Tasujin, DJMAX Technika, Groove Coaster, and of course Osu!. Music game is a concept that is to let common people enjoy making music without professional training, or enjoy rhythmic tapping. On this level, such triples is totally reasonable and is rather creative as they create a rhythm, even some of players don't like.Tshemmp wrote:
Dude, that's the concept of rhythm games: performing according to the music. If you don't like this then rhythm games are not your genre.Flower wrote:
Clicking the notes when drum hits or the singer gives a word? Is that fun? Remember, osu is not a instrument-following training application, it is made just for fun.
Move your fundamental discussions elsewhere. This map won't get rerankd in it's overmapped state.
Now this is something new.Flower wrote:
Music game is a concept that is to let common people enjoy making music without professional training.
Just accept it, the BATs say it is unranakable in it current state.Flower wrote:
Nope. You are stating the rigid definition which does not fit all music games such as Taiko no Tasujin, DJMAX Technika, Groove Coaster, and of course Osu!. Music game is a concept that is to let common people enjoy making music without professional training, or enjoy rhythmic tapping. On this level, such triples is totally reasonable and is rather creative as they create a rhythm, even some of players don't like.
Also 100% agree with Makar.
edit: wow i messed this post up lol
The Dance diff is pretty awesome and fun to play. I have no idea why you guys are attacking him over this
I'm just saying...
I'm just saying...
I could link you a thousand notes in a thousand maps that don't follow the music at all, you wouldn't listen though.Loctav wrote:
You are supposed to create the perfect overlay of the song.
This map is an overlay of a song that is somehow not included in this mapset.
OK you dudes win. It is the rule so I won't discuss on the irrational actions taken by some team members. However, as to be obviously rankable, I will watch later progress on discussing and modification.Zarerion wrote:
Just accept it, the BATs say it is unranakable in it current state.Flower wrote:
Nope. You are stating the rigid definition which does not fit all music games such as Taiko no Tasujin, DJMAX Technika, Groove Coaster, and of course Osu!. Music game is a concept that is to let common people enjoy making music without professional training, or enjoy rhythmic tapping. On this level, such triples is totally reasonable and is rather creative as they create a rhythm, even some of players don't like.
Also 100% agree with Makar.
edit: wow i messed this post up lol
We don't attack the mapper, we only address the issues with the map.
Please calm down people.
Please don't try to solve this problem just by saying "it is rankable because it is one of mapping style". If you claim so, we have to admit a map like consists all of 1/8 steams with BPM100 relax song. To prevent it happens, we set the standard. And also we are here.
I don't say we're perfect. But I think we have a better sense than other people. That's one of reason we're XAT.
Please discuss(not only claim) with us and try to find a way to make a map better.
I'm one who think Dance is overmapped.
The big space is used although there is unexcited place of the song. Especially after KIAI, for example 01:34:974 (1,2,3,4,5,6).
Many unnecessary notes are used. For example 01:09:001 (5,7,1), I don't know which sound they are following.
If you say they're used to design a map, I say no for it. Mapper should design a map with "variation of pattern", "unique rhythm", and etc. Many elements constitute a map. But using unnecessary notes to design a map is wrong.
Uhm...it is AM8 here...I can't reply until I'll be back to my home.
I hope we'll discuss constructively together.
Please don't try to solve this problem just by saying "it is rankable because it is one of mapping style". If you claim so, we have to admit a map like consists all of 1/8 steams with BPM100 relax song. To prevent it happens, we set the standard. And also we are here.
I don't say we're perfect. But I think we have a better sense than other people. That's one of reason we're XAT.
Please discuss(not only claim) with us and try to find a way to make a map better.
I'm one who think Dance is overmapped.
The big space is used although there is unexcited place of the song. Especially after KIAI, for example 01:34:974 (1,2,3,4,5,6).
Many unnecessary notes are used. For example 01:09:001 (5,7,1), I don't know which sound they are following.
If you say they're used to design a map, I say no for it. Mapper should design a map with "variation of pattern", "unique rhythm", and etc. Many elements constitute a map. But using unnecessary notes to design a map is wrong.
Uhm...it is AM8 here...I can't reply until I'll be back to my home.
I hope we'll discuss constructively together.
You guys speak as if there is only one way to map a song, lol. People interpret music differently, and mapping is a way to express your own interpretation of the song.
I'll take a look at the [Dance] diff later, but just wanted to throw this out first.
I'll take a look at the [Dance] diff later, but just wanted to throw this out first.
Of course. But it goes overboard when a mapper suddenly thinks "this straight 1/2 drum beat was definitely meant to be 1/4; the performers just didn't play it like that but I'm free to interpret it however I want!"CXu wrote:
You guys speak as if there is only one way to map a song, lol. People interpret music differently, and mapping is a way to express your own interpretation of the song.
Forgive me for the extreme example, but it seems we are having a hard time getting the point across to you guys.
Mm, Just looked at [Dance] and I guess the overmap is the chorus?
Actually, most of them play pretty well, similar to if the sliders were 3/4 instead of 1/2 + note.
Anyhow, you should fix this one somehow 01:13:781 (1,2,3,4) - . The spacing is really hard to read because of stacking, and iirc all other 1/4 jumps are stacks of two notes, so this is kind of a misfit imo.
Edit: Regarding spacing, what I get from the music is a powerful and somewhat fastpaced song. The spacing and SV fits fairly well for me. THEN AGAIN I enjoy most everything with huge spacing.
Actually, most of them play pretty well, similar to if the sliders were 3/4 instead of 1/2 + note.
Anyhow, you should fix this one somehow 01:13:781 (1,2,3,4) - . The spacing is really hard to read because of stacking, and iirc all other 1/4 jumps are stacks of two notes, so this is kind of a misfit imo.
Edit: Regarding spacing, what I get from the music is a powerful and somewhat fastpaced song. The spacing and SV fits fairly well for me. THEN AGAIN I enjoy most everything with huge spacing.
Hi~ just here to drop my opinion..
Despite being an overmapper myself, I have to say this map is ridiculous lol
01:08:588 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,1) - this is so beyond overmapped i don't even know :\
and many other parts that were already mentioned..
also all this huge spacing makes no sense to me ._.
I hope you can get this re-ranked after some fixes!
Despite being an overmapper myself, I have to say this map is ridiculous lol
01:08:588 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,1) - this is so beyond overmapped i don't even know :\
and many other parts that were already mentioned..
also all this huge spacing makes no sense to me ._.
I hope you can get this re-ranked after some fixes!
If you fail to contribute to the thread, refrain from posting. Else you receive appropriate punishments.
Edit: deleted several posts.
Edit: deleted several posts.
Topic Starter
Fix Cxu and Suzully‘s 01:34:974 (1,2,3,4,5,6) problem
then
you guys all talking about big space, unnecessary note
map need give player to play, this is why we make map
XATs is the people who need give mapper help to improve it and try to let player think it is interesting and fun to play
I put nodus in this map is ①big space ②Triples
and I really sure it is follow the rhythm
why you guys exclude the unnecessary note？it is always useful in my ranked map
no xat, please think about player's feeling
normal rhythm AHO and Kiiwa already use it, I want to use diff rhythm in Dance because it is high diff
I will not change many space and triple,and I still want to rank this map
then
you guys all talking about big space, unnecessary note
map need give player to play, this is why we make map
XATs is the people who need give mapper help to improve it and try to let player think it is interesting and fun to play
I put nodus in this map is ①big space ②Triples
and I really sure it is follow the rhythm
why you guys exclude the unnecessary note？it is always useful in my ranked map
no xat, please think about player's feeling
normal rhythm AHO and Kiiwa already use it, I want to use diff rhythm in Dance because it is high diff
I will not change many space and triple,and I still want to rank this map
If it's in the song, it's not unnecessary. It's a skill being able to listen to the music.tutuhaha wrote:
why you guys exclude the unnecessary note？it is always useful in my ranked map
...
I will not change many space and triple,and I still want to rank this map
You can want as much as you want, nobody is stopping you from thinking any way you want. Whether you can convince us is another story.
I'm going to give a personal opinion here, and you can agree or disagree.
It was not necessary to unrank this. The map has a high slider velocity, jumps and 1/4 patterns. tutuhaha mapped the song in this style, and this is her map. Some people will find it fun and some will not, but either way no one is forcing you to enjoy it. AngelHoney's difficulty, for example, is a reasonable alternative within the same mapset if you don't find the Dance difficulty to be playable. The supposed overmapping here isn't detracting from the map itself. It received 33 positive votes and 1 negative vote before unranking, and the BAT doesn't need to unrank the map over something that players aren't finding to be a problem and in reality is not a problem.
It was not necessary to unrank this. The map has a high slider velocity, jumps and 1/4 patterns. tutuhaha mapped the song in this style, and this is her map. Some people will find it fun and some will not, but either way no one is forcing you to enjoy it. AngelHoney's difficulty, for example, is a reasonable alternative within the same mapset if you don't find the Dance difficulty to be playable. The supposed overmapping here isn't detracting from the map itself. It received 33 positive votes and 1 negative vote before unranking, and the BAT doesn't need to unrank the map over something that players aren't finding to be a problem and in reality is not a problem.
While I respect the opinions of the XATs very much, I do firmly believe that "overmapping" is entirely an opinion, of course excluding extreme instances, which I do not believe this to be one of them. This map plays amazingly well to me. The jumps are so fluid, it's really enjoyable to play, just like Re:make was. After a few plays, the rhythm becomes quite readable, although for things like 01:16:665 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2) I do believe a better rhythm could have been used, but it's not an issue warrants unrank due to overmapping imho.
One complaint:
01:01:501 (1) - This circle is almost completely hidden by the previous slider 01:01:006 (2) so a lot of the time it leaves the player confused as to where the next note in the 01:01:501 (1,2,3,4) combo is. Better to make it more visible imo.
I just think this mapping is quite unique and epic, and I wouldn't want Tutuhaha to stop mapping in this style because of this unrank. -.-
One complaint:
01:01:501 (1) - This circle is almost completely hidden by the previous slider 01:01:006 (2) so a lot of the time it leaves the player confused as to where the next note in the 01:01:501 (1,2,3,4) combo is. Better to make it more visible imo.
I just think this mapping is quite unique and epic, and I wouldn't want Tutuhaha to stop mapping in this style because of this unrank. -.-
Overmapping is not an opinion. Overmapping is mapping notes in spots where there is no music, i.e. beats, melody, vocals or any other instrument. That is not an opinion.UnitedWeSin wrote:
"overmapping" is entirely an opinion
Topic Starter
change it and thankyouUnitedWeSin wrote:
While I respect the opinions of the XATs very much, I do firmly believe that "overmapping" is entirely an opinion, of course excluding extreme instances, which I do not believe this to be one of them. This map plays amazingly well to me. The jumps are so fluid, it's really enjoyable to play, just like Re:make was. After a few plays, the rhythm becomes quite readable, although for things like 01:16:665 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2) I do believe a better rhythm could have been used, but it's not an issue warrants unrank due to overmapping imho.
One complaint:
01:01:501 (1) - This circle is almost completely hidden by the previous slider 01:01:006 (2) so a lot of the time it leaves the player confused as to where the next note in the 01:01:501 (1,2,3,4) combo is. Better to make it more visible imo.
I just think this mapping is quite unique and epic, and I wouldn't want Tutuhaha to stop mapping in this style because of this unrank. -.-
overmap is it up to XAT or Player？lolcubes wrote:
Overmapping is not an opinion. Overmapping is mapping notes in spots where there is no music, i.e. beats, melody, vocals or any other instrument. That is not an opinion.UnitedWeSin wrote:
"overmapping" is entirely an opinion
If Player can listen it and follow the rhythm {beats, melody, vocals or any other instrument} which I use, it is sill overmap？
overmap can not be a point that XAT use to unrank
the thing is, overmapping isn't exactly defined. Some call overmapping placing circles where nothing is in the music, as lolcubes said.
However others refer to overmapping as adding jumps where no belong or making the map too hard and unfitting.
Since both apply here (IMO), it doesn't really matter right now though.
However others refer to overmapping as adding jumps where no belong or making the map too hard and unfitting.
Since both apply here (IMO), it doesn't really matter right now though.
Ok correction, "overmapping" always being a negative thing is entirely an opinion. I do not think that mappers should be forbidden from making the rhythm set more complicated, even if such a rhythm set isn't performed in the song note by note, as long as it makes sense rhythmically and people can follow it, which is the case here. Mapping like this can create a really unique experience imo if done correctly.lolcubes wrote:
Overmapping is not an opinion. Overmapping is mapping notes in spots where there is no music, i.e. beats, melody, vocals or any other instrument. That is not an opinion.UnitedWeSin wrote:
"overmapping" is entirely an opinion
I agree ShapphireGhost's point. Everyone had their own thought, forcing others to do something when they resist would just lead the whole thing to a bad side- and it actually happened here. I'd wonder why we can't use a gentle way, to get both side calmed and get the problem solved. 
Hey, in this set there are many difficulties that follow the rhythm to the best of the mappers abilities. So for Dance difficulty, can't the mapper create some unique rhythm?
I think it's unfair for a XAT to tell her to remake her whole difficultly even after all this modding because some 1/4's isn't in the music. If the map can still be played well, who cares?
I think it's unfair for a XAT to tell her to remake her whole difficultly even after all this modding because some 1/4's isn't in the music. If the map can still be played well, who cares?
completely disregarding the whole overmapping argument I haven't even looked at the map tbh
wasn't this also unranked for bad timing? Shouldn't that be fixed?
wasn't this also unranked for bad timing? Shouldn't that be fixed?
Please keep in mind that some stuff has already been changed.
Still gathering even more opinions and giving everyone the chance to express their thoughts before we start rechecking it.
Still gathering even more opinions and giving everyone the chance to express their thoughts before we start rechecking it.
Imagine this plays well:Kiiwa wrote:
If the map can still be played well, who cares?
You get the point.
You don't even say where in the map this is!those wrote:
Imagine this plays well:Kiiwa wrote:
If the map can still be played well, who cares?
You get the point.
How the hell can anyone tell if this plays well or not if we can can't hear if for ourselves and can judge only off one picture?
What a stupid reply.
The point is, you can put that anywhere on the map, and you can back it up with "I think it fits", where in reality this rhythm pattern doesn't appear ANYWHERE in this song.
Sorry for overestimating your ability, I should be more thorough in my explanations.
Sorry for overestimating your ability, I should be more thorough in my explanations.
you guys think its overmap 
I told you that T_TAndrea wrote:
I don't like Dance difficulty, it's really too overmapped and destroys the mapset.
And yet you ranked it
Kiiwa and those: Not all overmapping is bad to the same extent. I believe Kiiwa's point is that tutuhaha used overmapping in a way that was still reasonable and people found playable, and those's point is a general point against overmapping, that if you overmap to an extreme then it's not playable or fun.
Now, I think Kiiwa's response is a bit harshly worded, but I agree with her point that you can use overmapping to a certain extent without it becoming unplayable. You can see an example of unplayable overmapping in those's post, but it's not relevant to the extent of overmapping found in this map.
Like any mapping technique, you can use just some overmapping, or you can go too far. If I'm using new combo spam as a mapping technique, it can be done reasonably (example) or not (example). Overmapping is not inherently bad, but it is often done badly which is why people tend to draw that conclusion. As it pertains to this map, it's a question of whether it's being done reasonably or not, and in my opinion yes, it is and there wasn't a need to unrank it for that reason.
Now, I think Kiiwa's response is a bit harshly worded, but I agree with her point that you can use overmapping to a certain extent without it becoming unplayable. You can see an example of unplayable overmapping in those's post, but it's not relevant to the extent of overmapping found in this map.
Like any mapping technique, you can use just some overmapping, or you can go too far. If I'm using new combo spam as a mapping technique, it can be done reasonably (example) or not (example). Overmapping is not inherently bad, but it is often done badly which is why people tend to draw that conclusion. As it pertains to this map, it's a question of whether it's being done reasonably or not, and in my opinion yes, it is and there wasn't a need to unrank it for that reason.
i just get this map and test some times, the map is really cool from all kinds of aspects when i'm standing in the point of view of a normal player.
should the power to make decision not be grasped by most players? what i want to express is that people (who has ability to play Dance diff) is enjoy the experience during the play mostly. since we can all heard there are most strong beat from drum, the style of this diff can integrate the emotion of people into the song, the rhythm, also including the lyric.. these things are all the part of the song and also can not be express by the beat we can only find in the vocal or instrument.
should the power to make decision not be grasped by most players? what i want to express is that people (who has ability to play Dance diff) is enjoy the experience during the play mostly. since we can all heard there are most strong beat from drum, the style of this diff can integrate the emotion of people into the song, the rhythm, also including the lyric.. these things are all the part of the song and also can not be express by the beat we can only find in the vocal or instrument.
A response like this usually means one or both of two things: you think the MAT/BAT teams are unnecessary, and/or you forget MAT/BAT are players.
I can't find it in this map. can you point it?those wrote:
Imagine this plays well:Kiiwa wrote:
If the map can still be played well, who cares?
You get the point.
You should try to play DJMAX TECHNIKA then you will change your mind.those wrote:
The point is, you can put that anywhere on the map, and you can back it up with "I think it fits", where in reality this rhythm pattern doesn't appear ANYWHERE in this song.
Why a beatmap has many diff?
I think the key point is:RHYTHM
basic diff's rhythm is sparse but higher diff's rhythm intensive.For example,jubeat's Basic,Advanced and Extreme,DJMAX TECHNIKA's Normal,Hard and Maximum.In Extreme or Maximum,there are so much rhythm pattern(can't find in the song),but nobody think it's unplayable or overmap.I think this map is analogous,you know,Rating of the map is 9.6,it means that this map is playable.A map is playable or no is depends on most of player instead of some BAT/MAT.
so,rerank it plz.
edit:
Why is such a player with little judgement skill to be elected as a Team member? Who did this?those wrote:
A response like this usually means one or both of two things: you think the MAT/BAT teams are unnecessary, and/or you forget MAT/BAT are players.
someone always force his mind into others. 
anyway. *support for rerank
anyway. *support for rerank
Loctav unranked, 10058pc , 3 ranked maps ，83 kds ，cool~
and why you think overmapped = unplayable ?
and why you think overmapped = unplayable ?
It's obvious what he means, really. He isn't talking about a specific part in the map.Gundam wrote:
Imagine this plays well:I can't find it in this map. can you point it?
You get the point.
he even explained what he meant in an earlier post. learn to read before joining an argument.
Why a beatmap has many diff?This isn't DJMAX though, this is osu!, and we have certain standards. Overmapping is acceptable to a certain extent, but it was just too much here, it simply didn't fit anymore, and since the BAT were agreeing on that, they unranked it.
I think the key point is:RHYTHM
basic diff's rhythm is sparse but higher diff's rhythm intensive.For example,jubeat's Basic,Advanced and Extreme,DJMAX TECHNIKA's Normal,Hard and Maximum.In Extreme or Maximum,there are so much rhythm pattern(can't find in the song),but nobody think it's unplayable or overmap.I think this map is analogous,you know,Rating of the map is 9.6,it means that this map is playable.A map is playable or no is depends on most of player instead of some BAT/MAT.
so,rerank it plz.
edit:How was that an inappropriate answer? don't you think you're going too far, insulting XAT's with no apparent reason?Why is such a player with little judgement skill to be elected as a Team member? Who did this?those wrote:
A response like this usually means one or both of two things: you think the MAT/BAT teams are unnecessary, and/or you forget MAT/BAT are players.
@Zarerion: overmap is a style, where you found "too much" here? also, same as DJMAX, remember osu! is also the mug. you can't defeat all that Gundam said. btw, what's your certain standards?
I am sorry, but this picture explains nearly nothing. As SG mentioned, the extreme example does not prove impropriety of overmap conditions in the diff.Zarerion wrote:
It's obvious what he means, really. He isn't talking about a specific part in the map.
he even explained what he meant in an earlier post. learn to read before joining an argument.
This isn't DJMAX though, this is osu!, and we have certain standards. Overmapping is acceptable to a certain extent, but it was just too much here, it simply didn't fit anymore, and since the BAT were agreeing on that, they unranked it.It is not decided by a certain BAT as human is not perfect. The rating before unrank is overwhelmingly positive, whitch means this overmap does not affect playing. On the contrary, simply following the existing drum and vocal is quite plain, less creative and will get less rating, as I suggested.
How was that an inappropriate answer? don't you think you're going too far, insulting XAT's with no apparent reason?lol Do you think this question is based on nothing?
I already did bring up some parts in the map I dislike.Strawberry wrote:
@Zarerion: overmap is a style, where you found "too much" here? also, same as DJMAX, remember osu! is also the mug. you can't defeat all that Gundam said. btw, what's your certain standards?
In my opinion, this map didn't play well because of overmapping, too high spacing and unneeded jumps. (As well as totally broken flow, but that's something which is really up to the mapper)
And the certain standards are defined by the BATs. Why? because they supposedly have the most mapping and modding experience, and if the majority of them agrees about a map being pretty much unplayable, they most likely have a point about that map having serious issues.
It's obvious what he means, really. He isn't talking about a specific part in the map.But now we are talk about this map,and I can't find it anywhere on the map.
he even explained what he meant in an earlier post. learn to read before joining an argument.
This isn't DJMAX though, this is osu!, and we have certain standards. Overmapping is acceptable to a certain extent, but it was just too much here, it simply didn't fit anymore, and since the BAT were agreeing on that, they unranked it.DJMAX is a music game,so is osu!.Overmapping is too much here?why it can be ranked?
How was that an inappropriate answer? don't you think you're going too far, insulting XAT's with no apparent reason?Insulting XAT's with no apparent reason?hehe,I don't think so.Maybe you should read page3~page8 SERIOUSLY
Topic Starter
Now many people agree this is playable so this is not the pointZarerion wrote:
And the certain standards are defined by the BATs. Why? because they supposedly have the most mapping and modding experience, and if the majority of them agrees about a map being pretty much unplayable, they most likely have a point about that map having serious issues.
And then people wonder about bad Maps. Honestly, by getting some more accurate Mods and Testplays you could avoid this.. But why do I write it? Nobody cares about it. So ignore this thxbye
In this thread, at least as many players disliked the overmapping.tutuhaha wrote:
Now many people agree this is playable so this is not the pointZarerion wrote:
And the certain standards are defined by the BATs. Why? because they supposedly have the most mapping and modding experience, and if the majority of them agrees about a map being pretty much unplayable, they most likely have a point about that map having serious issues.
*sigh* Why do you even bother? It's decided already, it's not like your complaining would change anything.
Exactly.Stefan wrote:
And then people wonder about bad Maps. Honestly, by getting some more accurate Mods and Testplays you could avoid this.. But why do I write it? Nobody cares about it. So ignore this thxbye
Flower wrote:
It is not decided by a certain BAT as human is not perfect. The rating before unrank is overwhelmingly positive, whitch means this overmap does not affect playing. On the contrary, simply following the existing drum and vocal is quite plain, less creative and will get less rating, as I suggested. Since when did ratings ever fully determine that argument? Do you even realize how skewed the ratings are when you compare it to map quality? Positive ratings does not support the use of overmap at all. Just question your skill and your reasons for rating.How was that an inappropriate answer? don't you think you're going too far, insulting XAT's with no apparent reason?lol Do you think this question is based on nothing? Do you think accusations will do this any good? Please, be productive.
Zarerion wrote:
And the certain standards are defined by the BATs. Why? because they supposedly have the most mapping and modding experience, and if the majority of them agrees about a map being pretty much unplayable, they most likely have a point about that map having serious issues. It's not that they have the most, they generally have higher standards of quality and precision when it comes to modding. They know how to rectify problems they see in mapping, which is why they are given their titles so they can share that wealth of knowledge for the greater good.
Gundam wrote:
It's obvious what he means, really. He isn't talking about a specific part in the map.But now we are talk about this map,and I can't find it anywhere on the map. Did you not read the previous posts? People, learn to read before you enter an argument otherwise you just look silly and foolish.
he even explained what he meant in an earlier post. learn to read before joining an argument.
Topic Starter
you need know when i make some crazy map like this I will find many player come to play it like nanaya, Uan, Sco, DzH, DeA, also SGStefan wrote:
And then people wonder about bad Maps. Honestly, by getting some more accurate Mods and Testplays you could avoid this.. But why do I write it? Nobody cares about it. So ignore this thxbye
They are all play it and think this map has not big problem
If someone just want to play it 1 time and then FC it, yes it can not, but when this map is rank before 6 hour, someone can FC it just use 5 min, then after 10min someone can SS it
But the BAT is wrong.So we should correct it.Zarerion wrote:
In this thread, at least as many players disliked the overmapping.
*sigh* Why do you even bother? It's decided already, it's not like your complaining would change anything.
you are right so it shoule be reranked.Stefan wrote:
And then people wonder about bad Maps. Honestly, by getting some more accurate Mods and Testplays you could avoid this.. But why do I write it? Nobody cares about it. So ignore this thxbye
What. Are you even reading the posts?Gundam wrote:
But the BAT is wrong.So we should correct it.Zarerion wrote:
In this thread, at least as many players disliked the overmapping.
*sigh* Why do you even bother? It's decided already, it's not like your complaining would change anything.
You are not. making. any. sense. Really.you are right so it shoule be reranked.Stefan wrote:
And then people wonder about bad Maps. Honestly, by getting some more accurate Mods and Testplays you could avoid this.. But why do I write it? Nobody cares about it. So ignore this thxbye
Are you just stubborn or do you ignore us on purpose?
So epic thread, I must leave my 500th post here. cheers~
inb4 deletedSieg wrote:
So epic thread, I must leave my 500th post here. cheers~
That is slippery. I agree that rating is often subjective, but we are not talking about like this or this (Xakyrie wrote:
Since when did ratings ever fully determine that argument? Do you even realize how skewed the ratings are when you compare it to map quality? Positive ratings does not support the use of overmap at all. Just question your skill and your reasons for rating.
Do you think accusations will do this any good? Please, be productive.I agree with your idea. Then, the one who starts satirizing the mapper and accusing the mapper's difficulty of understanding due to the criticizer's lack of ability of presenting clear expression should take the resposibility.
FOOL.Talking about another rhythm pattern which can't find anywhere on the map,and the mapper DOES NOT put that anywhere on the map.It's too flloish,isn't it?Maybe you should test this map then post your impression here.I'm busy.thxbyeXakyrie wrote:
Did you not read the previous posts? People, learn to read before you enter an argument otherwise you just look silly and foolish.
爬完整层楼感觉XAT在犯二，没救
2ha加油!!!!!!!!
1.
http://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Ranking_Criteria
No Rules say that "overmap" is an unrankable issue. why unrank?
2.
http://osu.ppy.sh/p/kudosu
3. Try to find out why you can't play the map. Useless complaint makes no sense at all. :<
poor english
Edit: the silliest unranking with the non-sense unrank reason. good job guys.
2ha加油!!!!!!!!
1.
http://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Ranking_Criteria
No Rules say that "overmap" is an unrankable issue. why unrank?
2.
.
83kds? 3 hours ago - Received 1 kudos from ReySHeL for a post at HoneyWorks - Confession Rehearsal [Taiko]
1 week ago - Received 1 kudos from Stefan for a post at ZUN - Because Princess Inada is Scolding Me [Osu|CatchTheBea
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1 week ago - Received 1 kudos from Stefan for a post at ZUN - Because Princess Inada is Scolding Me [Osu|CatchTheBea
1 month ago - Received 1 kudos from -Bakari- for a post at Infected Mushroom - Killing Time (feat. Perry Farrell)
1 month ago - Received 1 kudos from Byakugan249 for a post at Hekiyou Gakuen Seitokai Lv.2 - Precious (TV Size)
3 months ago - Received 1 kudos from TicClick for a post at Skrillex & The Doors - Breakn' a Sweat (Original Mix)
3 months ago - Received 1 kudos from HellDawn for a post at Lady Gaga - Scheisse [Taiko|Osu]
3 months ago - Received 1 kudos from spboxer3 for a post at _yosuke & MOKONA - Sumowind [Osu|Taiko]
3 months ago - Received 1 kudos from MoodyRPG for a post at Peran - We want to be free [Osu|Taiko]
4 months ago - Received 1 kudos from Kokatsu for a post at OtoKaze & Hafuka - Snow Campus [Taiko|Osu]
4 months ago - Received 1 kudos from grumd for a post at goreshit - o'er the flood
4 months ago - Received 1 kudos from Kawayi Rika for a post at K2 - What's Your Deep Wish
4 months ago - Received 1 kudos from eLtigreXXx for a post at IOSYS - Endless Tewi-ma Park [Osu|Taiko]
4 months ago - Received 1 kudos from those for a post at Duca - Colorful Diary (Short Ver.) [Taiko]
4 months ago - Received 1 kudos from val0108 for a post at HujuniseikouyuuP - Talent Shredder
4 months ago - Received 1 kudos from Kite for a post at Xi - Majotachi no Butoukai ~ Magus [Osu|Taiko]
http://osu.ppy.sh/p/kudosu
3. Try to find out why you can't play the map. Useless complaint makes no sense at all. :<
poor english
Edit: the silliest unranking with the non-sense unrank reason. good job guys.
I'm giving up. This discussion makes no sense at all. You are asking the same questions and saying the same stuff over. and over. again.
This is just stupid.
This is just stupid.
Strawberry wrote:
anyway. *support for rerank
I even get more lol, but this does not mean Loc is incapable with modding. The conclusion is, "贵圈真乱".384059043 wrote:
83kds?
Topic Starter
we said the same stuff over and over because you dont give use answer, and we dont really understand your pointZarerion wrote:
I'm giving up. This discussion makes no sense at all. You are asking the same questions and saying the same stuff over. and over. again.
This is just stupid.
We dont say you are stupid but you said we are stupid, who stupid more？
all we know
我很好奇既然admin不需要kds就能上 为什么admin允许unrank/rank图 柑橘没救 贵圈真乱XDFlower wrote:
I even get more lol, but this does not mean Loc is incapable with modding. The conclusion is, "贵圈真乱".384059043 wrote:
83kds?
再继续为一个问题重复来重复去感觉会变成一个骗分帖子 怒回骗顶吧
support for reranking!
support for reranking!
This is getting crazy..
Just pointing out that no one called anyone stupid. The level of misinterpreting here (language barriers?) is just taking this discussion to a whole different realm. How about shifting the focus on the goal?tutuhaha wrote:
we said the same stuff over and over because you dont give use answer, and we dont really understand your point
We dont say you are stupid but you said we are stupid, who stupid more？
all we know
I'm just going to leave this here in hopes that maybe, just maybe you'll get why you're not making much sense.those wrote:
The point is, you can put that anywhere on the map, and you can back it up with "I think it fits", where in reality this rhythm pattern doesn't appear ANYWHERE in this song.
Sorry for overestimating your ability, I should be more thorough in my explanations.
I hope to see some form of progression in this thread really soon.
Mercurial
Topic Starter
It is the Bad things that I dont want it happenMercurial wrote:
If the mapper refuse to change something in this mapset, then this will end as Justice Breaker when Rin nuked his own map.
so I try to find more people and explain they idea
then this map is not unrankable, it is really sure things, and it is readable and playable
The only think unrankable here imo is that it's not the full version. ;_;
I'll leave my opinions here
we need to accept a fact is that things are always being developing, so osu! is. the osu community has developing for 5 years, there's more and more players and mappers nowadays. the average of the play skill nowadays is much higher than what you thought, also the map difficulty. if we put an usual Insane diff which ranked in this year into 2 or 3 years ago, I think mostly of people would say it's overmapped
about this map, it's a bit hard to play, but it's acceptable nowadays. just like what 0108 did, he put many unreasonable jumps and streams in his map everywhere, and he became one the best of 2012
this is a precise tangible that osu has developed, there comes out many new things, maybe someone don't like new things but please remember: reject new things, there won't be history anymore, it'll be the end of the dynasty
we need to accept a fact is that things are always being developing, so osu! is. the osu community has developing for 5 years, there's more and more players and mappers nowadays. the average of the play skill nowadays is much higher than what you thought, also the map difficulty. if we put an usual Insane diff which ranked in this year into 2 or 3 years ago, I think mostly of people would say it's overmapped
about this map, it's a bit hard to play, but it's acceptable nowadays. just like what 0108 did, he put many unreasonable jumps and streams in his map everywhere, and he became one the best of 2012
this is a precise tangible that osu has developed, there comes out many new things, maybe someone don't like new things but please remember: reject new things, there won't be history anymore, it'll be the end of the dynasty