Don't caps. Moreover, look at the time it got Loved, during the old system, that's why it got ranked. Now stop yelling please.Miutrex wrote:
WTF?
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/344371
THIS MAP LITERALLY DOES NOT HAVE ANY SP, AND IS LOVED !!!
NEVER EXCEEDS THE 100 FAVS
WHAT THE HELL YOU SET RULES IF YOU BREAK THEIRS?
THIS SIMPLY WILL GENERATE MORE CONFUSION THAT THERE IS ALREADY COMPLICATED THAT IS FOR YOUR MAP TO ENTER ANY CATEGORY OF RANKING
I JUST DON´T UNDERSTAND IT
forum
Let's talk about Loved.
posted
Total Posts
169
You're right, you don't.Miutrex wrote:
I JUST DON´T UNDERSTAND IT
How about introducing user rating system on pending or graveyard maps?
Loved points : The number of raters * (Average of User Rating - 8) * ( 1 + StarPriority*0.05)
Required points for Loved : 350 + 10 * The number of difficulties
WIP maps should be excepted. User rating should be reset when a pending or graveyard map changes to WIP map.
Result
Both many raters and high ratings will be required.
A map under 8 User Rating won't be loved map.
Graveyard maps can also be loved maps.
the advantage of star priority is kept.
Loved points : The number of raters * (Average of User Rating - 8) * ( 1 + StarPriority*0.05)
Required points for Loved : 350 + 10 * The number of difficulties
WIP maps should be excepted. User rating should be reset when a pending or graveyard map changes to WIP map.
Result
Both many raters and high ratings will be required.
A map under 8 User Rating won't be loved map.
Graveyard maps can also be loved maps.
the advantage of star priority is kept.
I could agree with this, since user rating system hasn't been in its upmost uses after all, but there's only one thing.CircusGalop wrote:
How about introducing user rating system on pending or graveyard maps?
Loved points : The number of raters * (Average of User Rating - 8) * ( 1 + StarPriority*0.05)
Required points for Loved : 350 + 10 * The number of difficulties
WIP maps should be excepted. User rating should be reset when a pending or graveyard map changes to WIP map.
Result
Both many raters and high ratings will be required.
A map under 8 User Rating won't be loved map.
Graveyard maps can also be loved maps.
the advantage of star priority is kept.
Since what I see is that the user rating system is highly subjective, the beatmapper and the players can easily give 10/10 on each of the said category map. Which is pretty unfortunate, that rating system won't give out their honest rating as you might think it is - since it is easily dominated by the propaganda of the given map..... and that could be very risky.
Also agreed to the previous suggestions which are to limit giving SP, because it's already done by someone to purposely making the map "Loved" without any given lookout and further ignored mods. Shooting your hard-earned 100 stars right off the bat is just straight up dumb, I hate to say that. Keeping high favourites are great as well.
I realized that the additional conditions are needed like this.
Required raters : at least 100
How long keep those conditions : at least 2 weeks after last update
I thought as follows.
If many raters vote, manipulation of average User Rating will be difficult.
The number of favorites is dominated by popularity, but it does not reflect how many people are dissatisfied with this map.
If the average rating is not enough to make something a loved map, the mapper can try to improve rating by changing to WIP and improving the map.
Of course, user ratings might not reflect the map quality. But, this allows us to filter out the maps which a lot of people don't like and to give feedback to the mapper in a different way. I would like to hear more opinions about this.
Required raters : at least 100
How long keep those conditions : at least 2 weeks after last update
I thought as follows.
If many raters vote, manipulation of average User Rating will be difficult.
The number of favorites is dominated by popularity, but it does not reflect how many people are dissatisfied with this map.
If the average rating is not enough to make something a loved map, the mapper can try to improve rating by changing to WIP and improving the map.
Of course, user ratings might not reflect the map quality. But, this allows us to filter out the maps which a lot of people don't like and to give feedback to the mapper in a different way. I would like to hear more opinions about this.
Akali's (submitted by Sugoi-_-Desu) Knife Party - Centipede is the perfect example against this
DDMythical
Every map that meets their respective gamemodes' kudosu/favourite mark should be put into a pool. Then the community votes on X (10%) of these maps to be loved every month or so. The maps that don't make it have to get 30% higher kudosu/favourites to be able to enter the pool next month.
For hybrid sets; just account the most popular gamemode. For example if a set has 4 mania diffs and 1 standard diff. it will require the standard's limit of kudosu/favourites.
This stops people from putting 100 kds and getting randoms to favourite their map and then getting it loved no questions asked. The community then has to agree that the map is good. the 30% increase each time (100, 130, 169) will stop mappers from repeatedly putting a mapset into the pool when nobody wants leaderboards on it.
however long this mapset has been around for is irrelevant.
For hybrid sets; just account the most popular gamemode. For example if a set has 4 mania diffs and 1 standard diff. it will require the standard's limit of kudosu/favourites.
This stops people from putting 100 kds and getting randoms to favourite their map and then getting it loved no questions asked. The community then has to agree that the map is good. the 30% increase each time (100, 130, 169) will stop mappers from repeatedly putting a mapset into the pool when nobody wants leaderboards on it.
however long this mapset has been around for is irrelevant.
I think "loved" is not the place where you should add maps regularly. Maps that community truly love is not something that you can add every month by votes I think.. It's just a popularity contest, who made more interesting map with unranked patterns, weird spacing etc. Loved should be something more "holy" (?)
Maps that had great impact on community over YEARS, not week/month. Maps like that old nightcore jump practice that everyone played, https://osu.ppy.sh/s/48738 (oh man this is genius). You can actually see though download count (not in every case but still) in current loved section what is truly loved, everything below 100k should be just removed. I think there should be at least 1-2 year in graveyard/pending to qualify for loved.. It doesn't matter if map gets attention for month or two, if it's forgotten over year it just means it doesn't really have to be in loved. And why loved should be something that is not flexible. What about some voting what should not be in loved? It's not like players lose pp from removing maps. Who needs many maps in loved anyway, true "loved" map is not something that appears every day/week. To sum up, there should be at least two ways to get loved. Using community votes for really old maps and download count for new ones.
Maps that had great impact on community over YEARS, not week/month. Maps like that old nightcore jump practice that everyone played, https://osu.ppy.sh/s/48738 (oh man this is genius). You can actually see though download count (not in every case but still) in current loved section what is truly loved, everything below 100k should be just removed. I think there should be at least 1-2 year in graveyard/pending to qualify for loved.. It doesn't matter if map gets attention for month or two, if it's forgotten over year it just means it doesn't really have to be in loved. And why loved should be something that is not flexible. What about some voting what should not be in loved? It's not like players lose pp from removing maps. Who needs many maps in loved anyway, true "loved" map is not something that appears every day/week. To sum up, there should be at least two ways to get loved. Using community votes for really old maps and download count for new ones.
a lot of people don't play loved map cause it doesn't give pp and that's why there is not much maps that got 100k plays .Reazen wrote:
everything below 100k should be just removed.
also because a lot of maps have high SR so not everyone can play it
end loved plz i need more pp
Then how these high SR maps still have more dl count ?? That's what loved is about ppl plays these maps even if it does not give them pp.Pachiru wrote:
a lot of people don't play loved map cause it doesn't give pp and that's why there is not much maps that got 100k plays .Reazen wrote:
everything below 100k should be just removed.
also because a lot of maps have high SR so not everyone can play it
Yo !
I didn't really read each post of this thread, and i think i'm not the only person who asked for this.
Is/will it be possible to have a mapset which is going for Ranked section, but in this mapset there's only a diff which goes for Loved section, because the diff itself is technically unrankable ? (all tag4 maps that were ranked before are now in Loved section, but the other diffs are in Ranked section)
I can give you an example if you don't see what i mean.
"I'm planning to make a full mapset on a song in standard mode, and i want to add a TAG4 diff but not as external diff. It is part of the mapset but the scores on it don't give pp, so it is for loved section"
I didn't really read each post of this thread, and i think i'm not the only person who asked for this.
Is/will it be possible to have a mapset which is going for Ranked section, but in this mapset there's only a diff which goes for Loved section, because the diff itself is technically unrankable ? (all tag4 maps that were ranked before are now in Loved section, but the other diffs are in Ranked section)
I can give you an example if you don't see what i mean.
"I'm planning to make a full mapset on a song in standard mode, and i want to add a TAG4 diff but not as external diff. It is part of the mapset but the scores on it don't give pp, so it is for loved section"
Is loved status supposed to be way harder than ranked?
Getting 100 favorites on a 7K map seems very hard when about 90% of players only play 4K.
Why have the same requirement for all modes when the size of player base is drastically different.
The requirement for favorite should be x% of total player base for that key mode.
Example: There are 100,000 players for 4K, set requirement to 0.1% you need 100 favorites.
There are 10,000 players for 7K, you need 10 favorites.
There are 10 million players for STD, you need 10 000 favorites.
Where as the requirement for kudosu would be based on active modders.
Example: There are 10000 mappers for 4K, set requirement to 10% = 100 kudosu.
Favorite is more of a limited resource than kudosu since you are capped at 50 per account and you get banned for multi accounts. Considering this, the requirement for favorite should be lower than kudosu requirement.
Only map that break ranking rules can be loved is a fair requirement.
I think the intention of having "Loved" is just a backdoor for pending maps to get attention, not actually meant to represent what the community loves, is that right?
There would be no need for loved if the ranking system was only based on # of mod + # of plays
Getting 100 favorites on a 7K map seems very hard when about 90% of players only play 4K.
Why have the same requirement for all modes when the size of player base is drastically different.
The requirement for favorite should be x% of total player base for that key mode.
Example: There are 100,000 players for 4K, set requirement to 0.1% you need 100 favorites.
There are 10,000 players for 7K, you need 10 favorites.
There are 10 million players for STD, you need 10 000 favorites.
Where as the requirement for kudosu would be based on active modders.
Example: There are 10000 mappers for 4K, set requirement to 10% = 100 kudosu.
Favorite is more of a limited resource than kudosu since you are capped at 50 per account and you get banned for multi accounts. Considering this, the requirement for favorite should be lower than kudosu requirement.
Only map that break ranking rules can be loved is a fair requirement.
I think the intention of having "Loved" is just a backdoor for pending maps to get attention, not actually meant to represent what the community loves, is that right?
There would be no need for loved if the ranking system was only based on # of mod + # of plays
Loved section should stay with the same requirements (100 kudos, 15 favs (or maybe more favs idk)) but let the community vote. As DDMythical said, there should be a pool of selected maps with 2 or 3 maps in the end.
Play count/Download should not be involved. Unknown mappers (mappers that never ranked anything like me/non famous mappers) will get less downloads and plays because the players won't be following the mapper's new maps, so it's a bad idea to involve these stats in loved.
Play count/Download should not be involved. Unknown mappers (mappers that never ranked anything like me/non famous mappers) will get less downloads and plays because the players won't be following the mapper's new maps, so it's a bad idea to involve these stats in loved.
I agree with that idea.FruityEnLoops wrote:
Loved section should stay with the same requirements (100 kudos, 15 favs (or maybe more favs idk)) but let the community vote. As DDMythical said, there should be a pool of selected maps with 2 or 3 maps in the end.
Play count/Download should not be involved. Unknown mappers (mappers that never ranked anything like me/non famous mappers) will get less downloads and plays because the players won't be following the mapper's new maps, so it's a bad idea to involve these stats in loved.
i think its absurd how were talking about a category centered around literally unranked popularity ( lets be honest thats what loved means. high critical acclaim.....but mostly popularity thats unranked ) and no one before this guy mentioned user rating where you LITERALLY RATE THE MAP as having any relevance towards anything. this thread is just people projecting their opinions of either i want the kudoso power or how no one should have the kudoso power. i think a combination of favorites and user rating with a small amount of influence. ( key word SMALL ) being given towards the kudoso thing is probably a alright system. i mean factoring in user rating to some degree doesnt seem like a bad idea, though we'd never see something like ikenai borderline get loved again it might also stifle out the completely generic shit or all the jump spam that half the community actually active in this game hates.CircusGalop wrote:
How about introducing user rating system on pending or graveyard maps?
Loved points : The number of raters * (Average of User Rating - 8) * ( 1 + StarPriority*0.05)
Required points for Loved : 350 + 10 * The number of difficulties
WIP maps should be excepted. User rating should be reset when a pending or graveyard map changes to WIP map.
Result
Both many raters and high ratings will be required.
A map under 8 User Rating won't be loved map.
Graveyard maps can also be loved maps.
the advantage of star priority is kept.
the way i see it theres no way in hell were gonna get a "loved" system that pleases everyone. but is it even supposed to? i thought it was for unranked maps that have enough reception and popularity around them to warrant a leader board. its not the systems fault in that case if most of the community just has shitty taste
also +1 to loved maps being maps that are at least 6months-1 year old.
How about switch it up? 100 favs and 30 sp? Instead of 100 sp and 30 favs.
I actually suggested both options since 100favs+30sp is primaly for the actual famous maps that are truly loved, while 100sp+30favs are for the mapper who urgently want their map to have a leaderboard. *shrugs*PotatoJet wrote:
How about switch it up? 100 favs and 30 sp? Instead of 100 sp and 30 favs.
Of course my opinion on this is highly biased, but I think the requirements were fine how they were. Quite a few people including me have already accumulated 100SP on their maps and met the criteria. To reduce the kudosu requirement is to make all that effort a waste. Loved should be an alternative to the ranking criteria, or it should be split into another category. One for maps truly loved by the community, and another category for those who put the time and effort into getting the kudosu and favorites.
hmm... still looking for a way out of this all
i'm here to summarize what I've read (some posts I forget omg: o)
forgive me for my rough language in English
i'm here to summarize what I've read (some posts I forget omg: o)
forgive me for my rough language in English
- Loved Beatmap is a beatmap beloved by people, chosen for its own reasons (forgot) by everyone.
- Loved Beatmap is treated as a side-ranking category, when for various reasons perfectly rankable maps go for loved instead.
- Loved Beatmap shouldn't just be an alternative Ranked status. Loved isn't supposed to be a mapping goal, it should just be a place for (unrankable) maps loved by the community to get a scoreboard. That is more like the mapper being narcissistic towards their own map.
- Loved Beatmap (still edit and find some argument to solve)
while i do not agree that "making all the effort a waste" is a valid argument to keep this current loved system, I think to tackle your problem a solution is that only mapsets which are uploaded after the new loved system took place will need to adhere to the loved requirements. this is similar to how updating the ranking criteria works if im correcttatatat wrote:
Of course my opinion on this is highly biased, but I think the requirements were fine how they were. Quite a few people including me have already accumulated 100SP on their maps and met the criteria. To reduce the kudosu requirement is to make all that effort a waste. Loved should be an alternative to the ranking criteria, or it should be split into another category. One for maps truly loved by the community, and another category for those who put the time and effort into getting the kudosu and favorites.
___________________________
my opinion:
+ i think 100fav 30SP would be better cuz at last the osu player community is the dominant one, meaning having SR > fav doesn really reflect the fact that a map is widely loved (+ the fact that 90% players are not mappers nor modders, and therefore probably dont have kudosu to shoot at any maps)
and i think there should be a limit for the amount of stars one can shoot (sorry if its already mentioned i only skimmed over the 10 pages very briefly, like 5 stars per person, this is simply to prevent abuse of this 100fav 30sp requirement
There is an alternative to ranked already; it's called ranked.tatatat wrote:
Of course my opinion on this is highly biased, but I think the requirements were fine how they were. Quite a few people including me have already accumulated 100SP on their maps and met the criteria. To reduce the kudosu requirement is to make all that effort a waste. Loved should be an alternative to the ranking criteria, or it should be split into another category. One for maps truly loved by the community, and another category for those who put the time and effort into getting the kudosu and favorites.
If there are no differences between a map in loved and a map in ranked (except for the potentially lower quality due to foregoing the modding process), then there is no reason to have a loved category in the first place, as those maps could just be ranked instead.
If a map can reasonably be changed to fit the ranking criteria, such as mapping additional difficulties, increase the quality of the map etc. it is fit to be ranked, and should not be considered to be loved.
Only maps that for some reason can't be ranked (such as the creator having left the community, or the map is designed around some unrankable concept), where changing it would break the map, should be considered for Loved, and only if said maps are indeed, community loved (how this is indicated can probably be discussed more, I just dislike the notion that "loved is an alternative to ranked". It's not, according to the description, and it shouldn't be.)
Topic Starter
Okay, just to tidy this up so as not to mislead people with things - this hasn't been discussed too much internally lately since moddingv2 has not progressed as far.
I believe we're slated to talk about Loved in the upcoming Coffee Hour, so hopefully I can provide some perspective and rationale on the issue in that. It is my hope that we'll sort something out to get Loved back into active duty relatively soon, though. Probably the biggest thing to iron out is the mix of expectations between what Loved should encompass or not.
I believe we're slated to talk about Loved in the upcoming Coffee Hour, so hopefully I can provide some perspective and rationale on the issue in that. It is my hope that we'll sort something out to get Loved back into active duty relatively soon, though. Probably the biggest thing to iron out is the mix of expectations between what Loved should encompass or not.
well heres hoping activity resumes. my interpretation of loved as always been the name itself. maps that are unranked for whatever reason that the community loves.
thats exactly what it should be and if the maps are shitty then again i reiterate what i said earlier. its not the systems fault if the community has shitty taste.
thats exactly what it should be and if the maps are shitty then again i reiterate what i said earlier. its not the systems fault if the community has shitty taste.
Is there now a way to submit maps for Loved that i can't find or is it still in discussion what is needed to get loved?
100 kds is to much lol . Maybe lowering it to 50 should be enough . And for fav is 100
Right . Simple as that XD
Right . Simple as that XD
no it's not as simple as that.
Envory
Topic Starter
To keep people up to date on this, a new voting round based on top-player/prominent player picks has gone out, in line with what was discussed during Coffee Hour.
I'm not yet sure if this is something that will be repeated. Hopefully it will, but I'm fairly set on not being the person behind compiling those lists again after the debacle of the first four votes, and I'd much rather delegate it to engaged players/modders/mappers who have a much wider scope for this sort of stuff than I do.
I can see some form of community voting continue for the near future, though.
That being said, is this the best compromise to have for Loved? A monthly intake purely decided from community vote?
I'm not yet sure if this is something that will be repeated. Hopefully it will, but I'm fairly set on not being the person behind compiling those lists again after the debacle of the first four votes, and I'd much rather delegate it to engaged players/modders/mappers who have a much wider scope for this sort of stuff than I do.
I can see some form of community voting continue for the near future, though.
That being said, is this the best compromise to have for Loved? A monthly intake purely decided from community vote?
I think everyone would prefer something more frequently, once a month is really painfully slow.
why only osu!taiko that has 3 compiler? it seems to be better approach to collect maps for vote than other modes imo
and yeah, weekly or biweekly votes sounds cool imoBackfire wrote:
I think everyone would prefer something more frequently, once a month is really painfully slow.
Bi-Weekly was my idea too, the only problem is people/staff will argue we will run out of maps too quickly or something. Maybe every 3 weeks is more realistic instead, but really I think the threshold thing isn't really necessary either. I think top 5 or something thins out the proper maps better, I think letting stuff over 6% ends up making it so that us voting for it is totally redundant. Put some kind of pressure on the community imo, that's what makes it interesting.
Topic Starter
The issue with doing this more frequently is having people willing to compile the sets that quickly, mostly.
Well I've been around the Taiko community for 7 or so years or so, I can tell you that I am willing to do that for Taiko, at least. It's not honestly been my dream to do something like this for our community, to take part in it, so I'd be willing and open to do it and I could do it by myself or with others.Ephemeral wrote:
The issue with doing this more frequently is having people willing to compile the sets that quickly, mostly.
I think, at the very least, you wouldn't have to struggle with that option for our community, I think a lot of us are qualified. I've done like 5 or 6 taiko tournament map pools, so I have a fairly vast knowledge of maps, and of course lots of opinions on ones that should be loved. If not me, people like Nwolf would probably enjoy doing it as well, so there is no shortage of people here.
in that case, not sure which is faster, whether one-person captain or a group of compiler (a-la ranking chart CAT)? i think either one can be faster
uhh..
uhh..
I'd like to propose the following conditions:
- at least 300 favorites
- any diff from the mapset must not autofail (2b, ya know)
- any diff from the mapset must not exceed 12 stars
If you sort all of the unranked maps by favorites, it is clearly visible what maps the community loves
oh, and no Centipede (like what, 48 stars or sth?) and Tewi-ma Park (2B Autofail) for the memers, sorry!
- at least 300 favorites
- any diff from the mapset must not autofail (2b, ya know)
- any diff from the mapset must not exceed 12 stars
If you sort all of the unranked maps by favorites, it is clearly visible what maps the community loves
oh, and no Centipede (like what, 48 stars or sth?) and Tewi-ma Park (2B Autofail) for the memers, sorry!
careful with this one. SR is not known to be most accurate. This would destroy any chance of difficult higher keymode mania being lovedh3oCharles wrote:
- any diff from the mapset must not exceed 12 stars
Why are we talking about imposing regulations on the loved section? The entire point is that it isn't subject to normal mapping regulations.
Why not let people submit their maps anyway, but have the community vote on the submitted maps for a regular time. Obviously people were abusing the star priority factor, but that would be out of the way if no one voted for those maps, and instead voted for the maps that the majority of the community likes.
Voting was always the best option, but I also think the maps up for voting shouldn't be handpicked by a couple of players. Make it like the "Best maps of X year" votings but change the list to users who submitted their maps for loved.
I have a map with over 300 favs in the graveyard and keep getting messages about its state, and I wonder if I'll ever get a chance to even try. Some old maps deserve that chance.
Voting was always the best option, but I also think the maps up for voting shouldn't be handpicked by a couple of players. Make it like the "Best maps of X year" votings but change the list to users who submitted their maps for loved.
I have a map with over 300 favs in the graveyard and keep getting messages about its state, and I wonder if I'll ever get a chance to even try. Some old maps deserve that chance.
im sure people don't even bother looking at the map if they don't know it so the probability of it being rejected is small- Milhofo - wrote:
Why not let people submit their maps anyway, but have the community vote on the submitted maps for a regular time. Obviously people were abusing the star priority factor, but that would be out of the way if no one voted for those maps, and instead voted for the maps that the majority of the community likes.
Voting was always the best option, but I also think the maps up for voting shouldn't be handpicked by a couple of players. Make it like the "Best maps of X year" votings but change the list to users who submitted their maps for loved.
I have a map with over 300 favs in the graveyard and keep getting messages about its state, and I wonder if I'll ever get a chance to even try. Some old maps deserve that chance.
Just wanted to remind you that if we are still gonna try to use sp for anything i think it's better to have the "shoot a kudosu star" button in the moddingV2 page or idk lul
-didn't realize this page is dead but i'll keep this
-didn't realize this page is dead but i'll keep this
_qqpp_ wrote:
Is loved completely dead now?
what
so is there a new thread for this issue or has it just been abandoned altogether?
There is an entire Project Loved Subforum and it has its own dedicated channel in the development Discord server where pretty much everything mentioned in this thread has been addressed over the past 2 years since this was posted.
here, have some material that i would like to get loved:
https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/1002419#osu/2109225
this has a set of 3 regular modes, 1 taiko mode, and 1 ctb (catch the beat) mode.
https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/1002419#osu/2109225
this has a set of 3 regular modes, 1 taiko mode, and 1 ctb (catch the beat) mode.