the only exception i could make with the 3 song rule is red like roses 1 and 2 from rwby. but iirc that was an official track released by the artist?
This is what I also suggested here https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/6655193Mir wrote:
I actually agree with this, full version songs are more likely to have breaks in them so having slight leeway for breaks in longer songs would be nice. Instead of 3:30 -> 4:30 -> 5:00, I would prefer 3:00 -> 4:00 -> 5:00. Not only is it more linear (there's a lot of room between 3:30-4:30 to require a hard but half that from 4:30-5:00 to require an insane) but it could also allow more breaks in 3:00+ songs.timemon wrote:
I've only read the spread proposal. I quite like it, though 3:30 drain time is very hard to reach.
1) full ver maps have lots of break (because they don't have to care about drain time)
2) some full ver songs can be quite short (3:30 to 4:00) so they might even fail to hit the rules designed to help them.
Maybe adjust the drain time a bit? I think 3:00 is good for the lowest point.
This pretty much solves Lasse's concern I think?Lasse wrote:
Breaks can be very important on <Insane diffs of this length and this would discourage using them, so I think this should somehow be accounted for, but I can't really come up with a nice solution right now.
That was the very beginning of the thread though. Since we have a lot more people in on this discussion now and we're approaching spreading from different perspectives, I think we should reconsider a linear 3:00 -> 4:00 -> 5:00 draintime spread.UndeadCapulet wrote:
@squirrel
please read the first few pages for why we can't do 3/4/5 for time limits. it was almost exclusively seen as too lenient.
Tfw tried looking the previous pages like where the hell's this, only to realize in the end it's prob just sarcastic remark forOkoratu wrote:
very good list kibb
FeelsBadManKibbleru wrote:
the only exception i could make with the 3 song rule is red like roses 1 and 2 from rwby. but iirc that was an official track released by the artist?
The problem with the graphs shown as well as the data via twitter poll is that it does not take into account that people wanting full length songs are invested in the game. The purpose of the proposal is to incentivize mapping more songs of that length for that audience, as opposed to the newer audience that tires out. Given that, I still think 3:30 for a minimum difficulty of hard is a good place to put the cutoff.-Mo- wrote:
Suggestions:
- Move the cut-off point for Normal difficulties up to 4:00. I think this is a more reasonable place to put it given the demand for full length songs.
- Add a new guideline that relaxes what a reasonable spread is for maps above 3:00. This is my compromise for raising the normal diff cut-off. One of the problems mappers face is having a low level normal diff and a high level hard diff, and requiring either remaps of the current diffs or the addition of an advanced diff to fill the gap. This problem is amplified for longer maps because more effort etc etc. This new guideline would allow spreads with wider gaps between each difficulty, lowering the workload on the mapper by not having to worry about spread too much and having less drain time to map whilst keeping maps accessible for lower level players.
sure but what if the songs have similar bpm and intensity, shouldn't the RC at least discourage mappers from mapping them inconsistently?Nevo wrote:
Problem with this is not all songs will be the same difficulty example being https://osu.ppy.sh/s/744238 which has a 206bpm song and a 86bpm which are completely related as its part of the same album project so its a completely logical compilationpimpG wrote:
not really looking forward to see the beginner difficulties decreasing but the boss has spoken and he doesn't really mind that...
"only allow compilations to be mapped as the same difficulty level each song..."
^ I think this should be considered
I personally haven't seen a compilation which maps 2 slimiler bpm/intensity songs in completely different levels of difficulty. So i dont really see what making people stay consistent would do since its like their interpretation of the songs and stuff.pimpG wrote:
sure but what if the songs have similar bpm and intensity, shouldn't the RC at least discourage mappers from mapping them inconsistently?
if the songs have similar bpm and intensity then I don't see how the interpretation could be different. i'm talking about obvious SR differences... what if the mapper decides to have the compilation mapped as (Extra ~ Easy ~ Hard) when all songs in the compilation supports the same level. That's subjective so what are the chances that you will be able to convince him that this is a bad idea if not even the RC mentions anything about it. sure I don't remember seeing anyone doing this so far but it doesn't means it won't happen in the future.Nevo wrote:
I personally haven't seen a compilation which maps 2 slimiler bpm/intensity songs in completely different levels of difficulty. So i dont really see what making people stay consistent would do since its like their interpretation of the songs and stuff.
could be something like:Proposal wrote:
Guidelines
- Each song in a song compilation should be similar in audio quality, volume, and length.
Proposal wrote:
Guidelines
- Each song in a song compilation should be similar in audio quality, volume, length and difficulty level.
From what I understand, they're working on rewording it so that 2 song mashes are ok with reasonable justification rather than just extending drain time.tatatat wrote:
So instead of combining two 4:30 songs from the same artist and album into one 9 minute diff, I'd have to combine three 4:30 songs into 13:30 length diff? that just seems absurdly dumb. Why should there be any restrictions of what songs can be mapped. I do agree that just patching together two random songs from two random artists isn't okay, but why not from the same artist and same album? Why map two diffs of a 4:30 length song when you can map one diff of 9 minutes of two song? There is much more variety. If I can't combine two 4:30 length songs from the same album, I'd just be... inclined to extend the compilation with a r3 music box to fit the 3 song requirement. and thats even dumber? right?
Two songs from the same artist should be perfectly acceptable, such as https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1639326 . I see nothing wrong with the way two songs were combined.
Also I'm still not entirely sure whether or not the rule of requiring a "spread of at least two difficulties." is required for maps shorter than 5:00 in drain time. Can you please clarify?
I'd assume so, the reasonable spread rule is still in place.Irreversible wrote:
Does the spread also have to remain linear?
Example:
if the drain time is 3:30-4:30 your set's lowest diff must be hard or lower (excuse me if that is outdated, just took it from the first post)
Let's say I still want to make an Easy for this diff- is a normal still required then?
That's what's attempting to be discussed with t/756468 iircpimpG wrote:
one last thing that i'm concerned
there should be some limitation to what songs can be combined into a rankable compilation
the way the Proposal right now basically you can put songs from 6ix9ine, BABY METAL, and Beethoven in the same compilation
first thing gets removed, 2nd would have this now https://i.imgur.com/alU9tH5.pngtimemon wrote:
I have a question, do every non marathon maps always have to have 2 diffs or more? Like if 4:45 map is a hard diff, does it need another difficulty? The proposal isn't clear on this one
Also what about the break on lower difficulties? The top diff might hit 3:30 drain but lower diffs might not.
timemon wrote:
I have a question, do every non marathon maps always have to have 2 diffs or more? Like if 4:45 map is a hard diff, does it need another difficulty? The proposal isn't clear on this one
Also what about the break on lower difficulties? The top diff might hit 3:30 drain but lower diffs might not.
Single-mode mapsets must include a reasonable spread of at least two difficulties.
Difficulties lower than Insane can use their play time as a metric instead of drain time, but their play time must be equal to at least 80% of their drain time.
timemon wrote:
So this essentially lower the bar for marathon by 30 seconds, if you map insane.
Maybe I'm lacking sleep cause its 2am but if you guys get rid of the forced "2 diff" rule in favor of this proposal. Can't I just make a TV size map with only normal diff and rank it, or I am missing something again.
Mao wrote:
timemon wrote:
So this essentially lower the bar for marathon by 30 seconds, if you map insane.
Maybe I'm lacking sleep cause its 2am but if you guys get rid of the forced "2 diff" rule in favor of this proposal. Can't I just make a TV size map with only normal diff and rank it, or I am missing something again.
I mean you could right now just rank a TV size with E/N, doesn't make that much of a difference.
I'm not sure if I like that you don't have to make two difficulties anymore though, the marathon bar for Hards would be lowered to 3:30 and that's pretty low imo.
Single-mode mapsets must form a reasonable spread. This spread must comply with its respective mode's difficulty-specific Ranking Criteria.
The audio file of a song should not be artificially extended in order to meet a time limitation in the mapset section of this criteria. This can include (but is not limited to) looping sections of the audio file, lowering the bpm of the song or section of the song, or adding small amounts of music to the song without incorporating it throughout the entire song. This does not apply to song compilations or audio files less than the minimum rankable mapset length.
ZiRoX wrote:
As others have said, I don't think the minimum 2 diff rule should be gone. As the proposal stands now, I could map a 1 min Normal and get it ranked. You could say that the proposal mentions that maps require a proper spread (and you can't have spread with only 1 element), but an explicit mention of this minimum number of diffs required would be good.
I agree. There should always be at least 2 diffs unless its a marathon. Thats what differentiates a marathon from a normal set.ZiRoX wrote:
As others have said, I don't think the minimum 2 diff rule should be gone. As the proposal stands now, I could map a 1 min Normal and get it ranked. You could say that the proposal mentions that maps require a proper spread (and you can't have spread with only 1 element), but an explicit mention of this minimum number of diffs required would be good.