01:38:770 (98770|3) - to 01:41:366 (101366|3) -
The whole section needs to be remapped, you're not listening to the music. It's not straight 1/4 jumpstream it's a lot more intricate than that. Patterning shouldn't be kept in overlapping rolls, add some trills or something. It's a build up to that section so you're expecting it to be harder.

Melt3dCheeze wrote:

[Speedcore!!]
01:20:308 (80308|3) -
Needs more chord jacks if that makes sense. The song intensity starts to pick up and it needs to be different from the lighter sections of the song, so that might warrant for increased difficulty. //prefer to keep the current pattern as overall intensity is already high enough

01:38:770 (98770|3) - to 01:41:366 (101366|3) -
The whole section needs to be remapped, you're not listening to the music. It's not straight 1/4 jumpstream it's a lot more intricate than that. Patterning shouldn't be kept in overlapping rolls, add some trills or something. It's a build up to that section so you're expecting it to be harder.//just because i didnt map the 1/8 doesnt mean i'm not listening to the music

01:42:462 (102462|0,102462|3,102462|0,102462|1) -
This section is void, LN + rice would suffice. Yet again being omissive to the music. // idont see how this could be a problem, if you want to do LN pattern then go ahead and do it when you map your own map but i would like to keep my current

Good luck i dont need that

qqqant wrote:

oh yeah and on top of what melted cheese said, some of the layering is weird too
also, if you are going to make a pp map, you cant justify it by making the "easier" patterns uncomfortable, that's not very fair imo
please consider these changes //where you get this idea of me want to do pp map

a box

00:26:770 (26770|1,26770|0,26770|3) - and 00:30:462 (30462|1,30462|0,30462|3) - should be doubles, theres no reason as to why they should be layered more heavily than 00:25:731 or the same as 00:28:616 (which has a unique sound)
// there is a reason, its the first sound of the main sound as i want to give more impact by using triple
00:31:846 (31846|1,31846|0,31962|3,31962|2,32077|3,32077|2,32193|0,32193|1) - this doesnt really make sense, the layering is fine but the positioning doesnt fit the music, would suggest changing up a few note positions - the fastest way would be to move
//using double jack because i want to build up the intensity as the rhythm goes up. i dont see how moving one note will make a huge different
00:32:077 (32077|3) - to the second column seeing as the notes in the synth go B - E - G# - B (to allow the notes corresponding to B to be the same columns and E and G# having different columns)
00:33:462 (33462|3,33462|0) - 00:35:308 (35308|2,35308|3) - why not triple? // because i decided not to, only the last cymbal is using triple

based on from what i see in the first kiai i assume that cymbal = quad, kick drum = jump or hand when emphasized, seems familiar (galaxy collapse) //wrong in the first place lmao
- 00:40:962 (40962|0,40962|1) - and 00:44:654 (44654|1,44654|2) - and 00:46:500 (46500|2,46500|1) - and 00:42:808 (42808|0,42808|1) - have no kick drum, consider reducing to single //main sound thank you
00:43:212 (43212|3,43270|2) - and 00:46:673 (46673|1,46731|2,46789|3) - change to doubles (because you have patterns like 00:48:693 (48693|3,48693|0,48750|1,48750|2,48808|0,48808|3,48866|1,48866|2,48923|0,48923|3) - that are basically the same sound) //so have you consider the intensity of each section? the first one is not trills because the intensity is different

00:48:116 (48116|2,48116|3,48231|3,48346|3,48462|3,48462|2,48577|2,48693|3,48750|2,48808|3,48866|2,48923|3) - extremely uncomfortable for the right hand.// left hand 11notes, right hand 12 notes, what can i say
00:48:231 (48231|0,48231|3,48231|1,48346|3,48346|1,48346|0) - these two chords dont even have the same pitch in the melody,
//using same column because the different pitch at 00:48:346 (48346|1,48346|0,48346|3,48462|3,48462|2,48462|0) - is much more noticeable
and 00:48:693 (48693|3,48693|0,48750|1,48750|2,48808|0,48808|3,48866|1,48866|2,48923|0,48923|3) - this would normally be fine (galaxy collapse) but because of the surrounding patterns, it is slightly uncomfortable (unless i'm just bad) - consider switching to regular jumptrill //so are you saying (12)(34) is the only trill we can do now?

00:50:077 (50077|3,50077|2,50077|0,50193|2,50193|0,50193|3) - dont even have the same pitch in the melody //like my previous explanation

00:50:712 (50712|3,50770|3) - remove one of these notes if you cant give a reason why should i even fix it

00:52:673 (52673|0,52904|0) - there isnt even any sound here. remove these and 00:52:731 (52731|3,52731|2,52789|1,52789|0,52846|2,52846|3) - Ctrl+H this //hihat

01:08:193 (68193|0,68308|0) - why stack here? change; 01:04:500 (64500|3,64616|3) - this one is fine because the mallet perc. (xylophone?) has the same sound//to show the rhythm is changing

also, there are sounds at 01:02:308 and 01:03:231 etc. throughout the section //because i'm focusing on the main sound (which is the LN) isnt that obvious

01:17:539 (77539|0,77539|3,77539|2) - no reason for this to be triple, change to double
01:19:385 (79385|1,79385|0,79385|3) - ^ first sound of the main sound

01:20:077 (80077|2,80077|1) - the "up" in "shut up" comes a bit before this, just remove these notes "a bit before" you cant even tell the snap, plus its vocal, move it few ms earlier wouldnt effect anything

01:20:308 - more chords/doubles (see post above)

01:21:923 (81923|3,81923|2,81923|0) - and 01:23:539 (83539|1,83539|0,83539|3,83770|3,83770|1,83770|0) - no strong kick drum, change to double //pls stop assuming that i'm using triple for kick drum like i cant tell the difference, i'm using it for the main sound
note at 01:23:885 not mapped //leave this part empty so i can emphasize the cymbal sound 01:24:000 - more

01:27:173 (87173|0,87231|0) - minijack at this speed? no thanks//if you cant play doesnt mean other cant. a lots of BPM higher than 250 also used this kinda of jack

01:38:770 - the music here is a lot more complicated than a planet shaper jumpstream, consider mapping the sharp speedcore sounds with 1/8 snap //i cant do 260 jack but i can do 260 jumpstream which mixed with 1/8. Nice logic

01:42:462 - really boring, consider mapping the other sounds //not boring, consider go map your own version of this song

02:21:231 (141231|1,141231|0,141231|3) - and 02:24:923 (144923|3,144923|1,144923|0) - same problem as before, should be double same explantion as before, not gonna fix
02:26:308 (146308|3,146308|2,146423|0,146423|1,146539|1,146539|0,146654|2,146654|3) - same problem as before //^

for second kiai refer to first kiai mod
02:45:231 - just maintain the jumptrill until the 1/8 //why should i, better give a reason next time if you want to convince someone

02:47:135 (167135|3,167366|3,167596|3) - no sound, delete and 02:47:193 (167193|1,167193|0,167250|2,167250|3,167308|1,167308|0,167654|1,167654|0,167712|2,167712|3,167770|0,167770|1) - Ctrl+H this pattern // hihat like my previous explanation
02:48:462 (168462|3,168462|2) - should be single (nothing unique about this) //last sound of the main sound

Raveille wrote:

A really good example of ghost note mapping in this map is the section Melt3dCheeze pointed out.

01:38:770 (98770|3) - to 01:41:366 (101366|3) -
The whole section needs to be remapped, you're not listening to the music. It's not straight 1/4 jumpstream it's a lot more intricate than that. Patterning shouldn't be kept in overlapping rolls, add some trills or something. It's a build up to that section so you're expecting it to be harder.

This is your current pattern at 01:39:693 - to 01:40:385 - :


This is my fixed pattern at the same timestamps:


Listen to the portions at 25% and you can tell the difference.
//i simply just make the 1/8 into 1/4, how is that become a ghost note. If i add notes at 01:40:443 - 01:40:558 - that will be ghost notes

Another point is that 01:40:500 - should be a single note because it isn't a drum //i double it for the main sound. Got rule says that only drum can use double?

RemFangirl wrote:

Okay, so I'm actually kinda looking forward to the modding discussion and feel like I'll say a word about this one.
First, I actually played the 2 hardest diffs on this map, and I can completely say this is legit pp giveaway. Given that this map isn't hard to play mainly because of the absurd spamming trills, you're not supposed to do that in the similar fashion to the genre has in this song. Sure, it's a really upbeat speedcore, but that doesn't mean your pattern is justifiable and can go on like "oh, this map has lots of tricky rhythmical structure, probably I should go with the hard stuffs and repetitive things on and on". Do not even try to get this one in a ranked state even with a situation like this.
Second and lastly, you are even trying to ignore what the modders will give out better solutions for you. Not even anyone could chart maps perfectly in just a single try. Yours are too. You're completely impolite to just bang those aside and drop it like it's not even a regular feedback for you. Look all of those ranting feedbacks in Disqus if you do need those reviews. So keep that in mind.

In either today or tomorrow, I'll be trying to look over on this stuff and will give out my personal opinion on my revision to this.

Abraxos wrote:

a case against this map:


how completely disgusting of you to say such a thing to someone who's trying to help.
I dont need "luck" to rank my map, any thing wrong with that?

you're ignoring his point about the patterns neglecting the song as it is; if you believe that your current pattern is fine then stand up to the point and make a case for yourself instead of asking, again, someone who's trying to help you improve your map to "make a map themselves to their liking". i'm sorry but we all share the ranked section so whether you like it or not you will have to stand up for yourself and take responsibility for your own things
His think his pattern is better and I think mine is better, just different mapping choice between different mapper, why should i explain more. If you want more explanation, "i think my pattern fits the music more" simple as that. As you said we all share the ranked section, then people should try to accept different mapping idea instead of focusing someone to accept their mod

before you argue that "you're the one who's being attacked here" stop yourself for a minute and think whether or not these people care enough about you to attack you or care about the quality of the rank section
its the wording, using words like "your map is a mess" "should remap this whole section", and still call it a help? no thank you


i think this shows not only me but everyone else how victimized you believe you are. of all the things and people and systems in the world to blame and you never thought to take a look at yourself and what you've actually done.
I would like to know what you mean by "what i've done".

i can only hope you wake up from it and actually start taking responsibility for your own map.

i apologize if this comes off as aggressive but i do not like it and will never stand for it when people shirk themselves in a corner when criticism arrives and point to the "oppressor" and scream how they're being "unreasonably being attacked".
err... pls dont try to guess my thought here

edit: i'm not continuing this mod, i don't see a reason to when the mapper is this entrenched in his own victim complexes

speedcore

[PATTERNING]
00:12:693 (12693|3,12808|2) - no attempt at differentiation even though there's bass beats?
00:13:500 (13500|2,13616|0) - similarly, i won't repeat myself

00:19:385 (19385|3,19385|0,19616|3,19616|0) - different pitches?

i'm not sure if you noticed but
00:19:616 (19616|0,19731|1,19846|0,19962|1,20077|0) - 1
00:21:577 (21577|1,21693|0,21808|1,21923|0) - 2
00:23:308 (23308|0,23423|1,23539|0,23654|1,23770|0) - 3
why do all of them center on the same hand?
i would understand if 1 & 3 utilized the same patterning cause the song repeats but 2 is eehh

00:26:193 (26193|0,26308|2,26308|0) - i get what you're trying to do here but sorry it's not doing what you think it does
00:28:039 (28039|0,28154|1,28154|0) - if you take a closer listen the one above is completely different in pitch and tone, yet both are represented in the same column

00:31:962 (31962|3,31962|2,32077|2,32077|3) - are they the same pitch? if not why are they in the same column then $$

00:32:539 (32539|2,32539|1,32770|0,32770|3) - funnily enough, these are the same pitches - yet they lack the representation as shown above
you copy pasted didn't you

reference $$ and %% for this point
00:34:385 (34385|2,34385|1,34616|3,34616|0) - you hear those wobs in the song? yeah you could've used those to your advantage by differentiating your doubles here but alas $$ and this are the same so nope this whole section has completely no nuance. add on %% and i think you should be able to see why people are complaining about how plain this map is

00:50:077 (50077|0,50193|0,50308|0,50423|0) - this is horrendous to play as a starting burst
00:50:712 (50712|3,50770|3) - this one is pretty bad, 260 jumptrills and then a minijack? it's not that there's anything wrong layering-wise, i just take issue with how sudden this one is, which is kinda the music's fault but then again it's not like you didn't have the freedom to make it less awkward

let's talk patterning now

00:50:308 (50308|1,50308|0,50366|2,50366|3,50423|0,50423|1,50481|3,50481|2) - i'm pretty darn sure this is a different bass beat than
00:50:539 (50539|0,50539|1,50596|2,50596|3,50654|1,50654|0,50712|2,50712|3) - so i don't understand why they're all bunched up in this jumptrill

01:08:770 (68770|1,68770|3,69000|1,69000|3) - different pitches, same column

01:11:885 (71885|0,71885|3,72000|2,72000|3) - these are the notes that have the same pitches, yes?
01:12:000 (72000|3,72000|2,72116|2,72116|3) - if yes to above, then why are these then the same columns?

01:16:846 (76846|2,76846|3,77077|2,77077|1,77308|0,77308|1) -
01:18:693 (78693|2,78693|3,78923|0,78923|1,79154|2,79154|3) -
we agree that these are the same pitches of notes, yes?
then why are they patterned differently?

01:21:693 (81693|3,81693|0,81693|2,81808|1) - you couldn't keep the jacking up here?
01:22:154 (82154|3,82154|0,82270|1) - here too?
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9283807 - i dont see why you wouldn't want to keep the difficulty here at least somewhat consistent

01:27:173 (87173|0,87231|0) - this has no justification layering-wise so i'm putting it here - why end this part on a jack?

pay attention to which hand all the notes i highlight land on
01:27:693 (87693|3,87693|2,87808|2,87808|3) -
01:28:039 (88039|2,88039|3,88154|3,88270|2,88270|3,88385|2,88385|3,88500|3,88500|2) -
01:28:731 (88731|2,88731|3,88846|3,88846|2) -
01:29:077 (89077|2,89077|3,89193|3,89193|2) -
01:29:539 (89539|2,89539|3,89654|3,89654|2) -
01:29:885 (89885|3,90000|3,90116|3) -
01:31:385 (91385|3,91500|2,91500|3,91616|3,91616|2) -
01:31:846 (91846|2,91846|3,91962|3,92077|2,92077|3,92193|2,92193|3) -
01:32:423 (92423|3,92423|2,92539|2,92539|3) -
01:32:770 (92770|3,92770|2,92885|3,92885|2,93000|3) -

can you see anything wrong with how the whole section is layering? do you think (at least for the beginning of the section) the section is a bit heavy on the right?
and before you bring up the "this section is right then left" 01:29:539 - and 01:30:231 - disqualifies it
not that it has any merit to begin with, why would you want to make the section alternatingly right-left biased

this song is horrible to chart, 01:27:693 - i perfectly understand how you didn't want to overload this section and it's really not that much your fault than it is the song (kobaryo is generally pretty meh anyway)

01:30:923 (90923|0,90923|3,91154|0,91154|3) - could've emphasized these more

again,
01:35:193 (95193|3,95193|2,95308|0,95308|1,95423|3,95423|2) -
01:37:039 (97039|3,97039|2,97154|1,97154|0,97270|2,97270|1) -
same beats but different representation

01:36:462 (96462|1,96462|0,96577|2,96577|3) - i don't get why the bass beats don't get the jack but 01:36:577 (96577|2,96577|3,96693|3,96693|0) - the bass-woob ones do, it just misplaces your emphasis on the bass here and makes everything seem messy and convoluted

01:37:500 (97500|1,97500|0,97616|1,97616|0,97731|0) - i don't understand this one




[LAYERING]
complete mess

00:17:193 - there's a bass beat here
00:19:270 - hihat

00:20:885 - bass beat, don't skimp on the double just because it's after muh triple there's still emphasis there

00:26:423 - 00:30:116 - hihat

00:30:462 (30462|1,30462|0,30462|3) - why are these notes emphasized to such an extreme? i don't hear any crashes

00:37:154 - not sure why you ignored the 1/4s here, it's not like you couldn't have done a normal 1/4 stream just for this part because hey there's actually differentiation in this song that you can use to make your map less copy pasted maybe %%
00:37:962 (37962|2,38077|3,38077|0,38193|1) - same as above, you could've done some sort of jack progression but nope nothing %%

00:51:000 (51000|0,51116|0,51231|0) - quirky layering
00:51:000 (51000|2,51000|0,51000|3,51231|2,51231|0,51231|3) - because these are the same triples - why are they the same

let's talk hypocrisy

00:52:212 (52212|3,52327|0) - these can very readily be argued as ghost notes, but for the sake of patterning and my argument let's say these are allowed
then 00:53:135 - 00:53:250 - 00:53:366 - are all inconsistent and fucked by that because they all have that same "note echo"
not only that, 00:52:616 - the patterning itself becomes really right-heavy
in summary, i don't see why you shouldn't remove those "note echo" notes because they're a) messing up the patterning and b) structurally inconsistent

00:53:770 - to 00:54:462 - there are 1/4 snares here you skipped over

01:02:308 - this snare is so blatantly missed
even if you make the argument "hey i'm only following the synths" it just seems lazy to me that you could not have tried to incorporate them into your patterning somehow? because they're part of the song you're trying to chart here and shouldn't we as charters be striving to represent the song as well as possible?

01:08:193 (68193|0,68308|0,68308|1) - either
a) you make them not stack because they're not the same pitches or
b) 01:08:193 - you make this a double

01:10:962 - snare
before you argue that you're mostly following the synths here 01:09:923 (69923|0) - 01:11:770 (71770|1) - you might want to consider that these notes lead players into thinking that percussion is actually being followed too. if you so want to make it such that you don't have to place a note at 01:10:962 - then you better make sure that the synth sections are actually distinct from each other in this section

01:16:154 - a bit weird how there's no notes here just LN releases

01:23:539 - you can most definitely have LNs here
01:21:923 - 01:23:770 - these are the same wubs actually
01:25:385 - NOW this one is inexcusable because there's no wub sound anywhere; besides the fact that this shows some measurable form of incompetency in basic layering understanding i think it shows that you're copy-pasting too

01:25:616 - wub here btw but it's fine if you ignore this one

01:25:846 - i guess you hands are bound layering-wise but i still wouldn't regard this as optimal, you could've very well done a jumpstream which emphasizes more on the synths in the music
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9283841 - something like this might even work fine, even though it's a bit crude as of now

01:35:885 (95885|1,95885|0,95885|3,96116|0,96116|1,96116|3) - same triple but different pitch?
01:35:885 (95885|3,96000|3,96116|3) - it's also why you get these things

01:42:000 - not sure why this is doubled really, there's no strong sound except for a yawn which seems pretty soft to me

RemFangirl wrote:

Okay, so I'm actually kinda looking forward to the modding discussion and feel like I'll say a word about this one.
First, I actually played the 2 hardest diffs on this map, and I can completely say this is legit pp giveaway. Given that this map isn't hard to play mainly because of the absurd spamming trills, you're not supposed to do that in the similar fashion to the genre has in this song. Sure, it's a really upbeat speedcore, but that doesn't mean your pattern is justifiable and can go on like "oh, this map has lots of tricky rhythmical structure, probably I should go with the hard stuffs and repetitive things on and on". Do not even try to get this one in a ranked state even with a situation like this.
Not like i'm the one who set the high SR, i map what i think its correct, if you dont agree then you are welcome to point out, but i wouldnt accept things like "because this is easy pp so you should make the pattern structure harder" no
Second and lastly, you are even trying to ignore what the modders will give out better solutions for you.
I reply each mod with my reason, i cant agree with the modder =/= i ignore their mod. Think again
Not even anyone could chart maps perfectly in just a single try. Yours are too. since when i say my map is perfect
You're completely impolite to just bang those aside and drop it like it's not even a regular feedback for you. Look all of those ranting feedbacks in Disqus if you do need those reviews. So keep that in mind. if you want people to take your post seriously, then you shouldnt do it on disqus, that section is for meme

In either today or tomorrow, I'll be trying to look over on this stuff and will give out my personal opinion on my revision to this.

YaHao wrote:

if you want people to take your post seriously, then you shouldnt do it on disqus, that section is for meme

qqqant wrote:

YaHao wrote:

if you want people to take your post seriously, then you shouldnt do it on disqus, that section is for meme

some of the posts on there are actually serious though. i must admit, most of them are jokes, but saying this just comes to show that you didnt really read the comments section through.

qqqant wrote:

wanting to make a pp map is basically implied in your p//s jumpstream section to which what is mapped in that section is completely different to what is in the song.

also, just wanted to say something about the difficulty name... it's even worse than naming your diff "POP MUSIC!!" in a kpop song, as evening put it

YaHao wrote:

post it here if you want my reply/thought, in case you dont know, thats how modding work

YaHao wrote:

qqqant wrote:

wanting to make a pp map is basically implied in your p//s jumpstream section to which what is mapped in that section is completely different to what is in the song.

also, just wanted to say something about the difficulty name... it's even worse than naming your diff "POP MUSIC!!" in a kpop song, as evening put it

00:52:673 (52673|0,52904|0) - there isnt even any sound here. remove these and 00:52:731 (52731|3,52731|2,52789|1,52789|0,52846|2,52846|3) - Ctrl+H this //hihat
Because i didnt remove the notes as its for hihat, so the Ctrl+H will also be rejected. Do i really need to explain this much?

YaHao wrote:

Abraxos wrote:

a case against this map:


you're ignoring his point about the patterns neglecting the song as it is; if you believe that your current pattern is fine then stand up to the point and make a case for yourself instead of asking, again, someone who's trying to help you improve your map to "make a map themselves to their liking". i'm sorry but we all share the ranked section so whether you like it or not you will have to stand up for yourself and take responsibility for your own things
His think his pattern is better and I think mine is better, just different mapping choice between different mapper, why should i explain more. If you want more explanation, "i think my pattern fits the music more" simple as that. As you said we all share the ranked section, then people should try to accept different mapping idea instead of focusing someone to accept their mod

you're missing the point again, can you explain why you chose these patterns that neglect the song at that point in time or are you going to resort to meta-critical analysis of "different" mapping choices and preferences? you're right to say that we should accept different ideas but then you lose that critical filter for quality and suddenly all kinds of garbage are now acceptable because "hey, we should accept different ideas right?"

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

before you argue that "you're the one who's being attacked here" stop yourself for a minute and think whether or not these people care enough about you to attack you or care about the quality of the rank section
its the wording, using words like "your map is a mess" "should remap this whole section", and still call it a help? no thank you

i'm sorry but nowhere in this thread does it say "kindergarten". you're in the real world, learn to deal with harsh criticism and learn to filter out the points that are actually useful for you rather than getting hurt because of wording and shutting down discussion

since you DID bring up wording as an issue let me produce a gallery of when your wording is inappropriate too:

how completely disgusting of you to say such a thing to someone who's trying to help.
I dont need "luck" to rank my map, any thing wrong with that?

oh, so people wishing you well is grounds for you to be condescending towards them then?



calling the other modder incompetent? is that fine by you too?

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________


i think this shows not only me but everyone else how victimized you believe you are. of all the things and people and systems in the world to blame and you never thought to take a look at yourself and what you've actually done.
I would like to know what you mean by "what i've done".

the map? you made this map? you did the mapping for this thing? you're accountable for the map aren't you?

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

i apologize if this comes off as aggressive but i do not like it and will never stand for it when people shirk themselves in a corner when criticism arrives and point to the "oppressor" and scream how they're being "unreasonably being attacked".
err... pls dont try to guess my thought here

then tell me what you actually think then, because so far you've only showed how wilfully ignorant you are being

if you want further elaboration on that i'll give you some



so feedback in the discus = useless then?



so feedback HAS to be in the thread or else your point is useless then?



oh, so wanting drums to be a double and a kick be a triple is "boring"?
calling other people's maps boring? without even doing what they did with your chart - mod them? is this fine too?



so when other people explicitly tell you that a section is boring you as a mapper decide that it's better to just straight up say that it isn't boring rather than explain the mechanics behind the section and stand up to the chart to at least try to help players understand why it isn't boring in your eyes; to facilitate discussion

Abraxos wrote:

a case against this map:


you're ignoring his point about the patterns neglecting the song as it is; if you believe that your current pattern is fine then stand up to the point and make a case for yourself instead of asking, again, someone who's trying to help you improve your map to "make a map themselves to their liking". i'm sorry but we all share the ranked section so whether you like it or not you will have to stand up for yourself and take responsibility for your own things
His think his pattern is better and I think mine is better, just different mapping choice between different mapper, why should i explain more. If you want more explanation, "i think my pattern fits the music more" simple as that. As you said we all share the ranked section, then people should try to accept different mapping idea instead of focusing someone to accept their mod
I dont think LN is necessary as that section is clam, no need to add more intensity
you're missing the point again, can you explain why you chose these patterns that neglect the song at that point in time or are you going to resort to meta-critical analysis of "different" mapping choices and preferences? you're right to say that we should accept different ideas but then you lose that critical filter for quality and suddenly all kinds of garbage are now acceptable because "hey, we should accept different ideas right?"
you may think its garbage, but other people might have different thought, important thing is to find a agreement that satisfy both side
before you argue that "you're the one who's being attacked here" stop yourself for a minute and think whether or not these people care enough about you to attack you or care about the quality of the rank section
its the wording, using words like "your map is a mess" "should remap this whole section", and still call it a help? no thank you

i'm sorry but nowhere in this thread does it say "kindergarten". you're in the real world, learn to deal with harsh criticism and learn to filter out the points that are actually useful for you rather than getting hurt because of wording and shutting down discussion
how is this become "shutting down discussion", i reply every mod and if anyone want to continues i'm happy to do so
since you DID bring up wording as an issue let me produce a gallery of when your wording is inappropriate too:

how completely disgusting of you to say such a thing to someone who's trying to help.
I dont need "luck" to rank my map, any thing wrong with that?

oh, so wishing people well is grounds for you to be condescending towards them then?



calling the other modder incompetent? is that fine by you too?
again, where is this "calling the other modder incompetent" come from. If he cant even explain himself well, how can i understand his mod??


i think this shows not only me but everyone else how victimized you believe you are. of all the things and people and systems in the world to blame and you never thought to take a look at yourself and what you've actually done.
I would like to know what you mean by "what i've done".

the map? you made this map? you did the mapping for this thing? you're accountable for the map aren't you?

i apologize if this comes off as aggressive but i do not like it and will never stand for it when people shirk themselves in a corner when criticism arrives and point to the "oppressor" and scream how they're being "unreasonably being attacked".
err... pls dont try to guess my thought here

then tell me what you actually think then, because so far you've only showed how wilfully ignorant you are being

if you want further elaboration on that i'll give you some



so feedback in the discus = useless then?



so feedback HAS to be in the thread or else your point is useless then?//I dont have the time to check thru the whole disqus and tell which one is being serious which is not, if they dont even bother to post it here, then why should i care. And i never say such thing like all of them are useless, they might have value point but if they want to voice it, post it here



oh, so wanting drums to be a double and a kick be a triple is "boring"? //mapping is not just about stick to one single rule



so when other people explicitly tell you that a section is boring you as a mapper decide that it's better to just straight up say that it isn't boring rather than explain the mechanics behind the section and stand up to the chart to at least try to help players understand why it isn't boring in your eyes; to facilitate discussion

YaHao wrote:

//just because i didnt map the 1/8 doesnt mean i'm not listening to the music

YaHao wrote:

His think his pattern is better and I think mine is better, just different mapping choice between different mapper, why should i explain more. If you want more explanation, "i think my pattern fits the music more" simple as that.

YaHao wrote:

As you said we all share the ranked section, then people should try to accept different mapping idea instead of focusing someone to accept their mod

YaHao wrote:

@Seiryuu
If I dont care at all why am I still here replying this, post your thought on thread, thats the basic thing if you want to help the map. Next time i migh as well PM everyone to ask their opinion on my map
2 posts without any timing and here you say "changing my attitude will help the map better" that really helps a lot, thank you

snexe wrote:

mlem

YaHao wrote:

@Abraxos
Dont take something out of context, I believe a mod with helps more than focus on my attitude.
How can you define what is boring what is not, some maps i found boring but seems a lots of people like them, everyone is different. That section is quite clam, simple pattern will do the work, how is this hard to understand

Abraxos wrote:

speedcore

[PATTERNING]
00:12:693 (12693|3,12808|2) - no attempt at differentiation even though there's bass beats? //i dont think i had follow any bass in the previous part so no for this
00:13:500 (13500|2,13616|0) - similarly, i won't repeat myself

00:19:385 (19385|3,19385|0,19616|3,19616|0) - different pitches? //they are different, but here i'm not really concern about the pitch plus they are 1/1 beat between, wouldnt really affect game play

i'm not sure if you noticed but
00:19:616 (19616|0,19731|1,19846|0,19962|1,20077|0) - 1
00:21:577 (21577|1,21693|0,21808|1,21923|0) - 2
00:23:308 (23308|0,23423|1,23539|0,23654|1,23770|0) - 3
why do all of them center on the same hand? //if the pattern around are balanced why not
i would understand if 1 & 3 utilized the same patterning cause the song repeats but 2 is eehh //how is 2 same as the 1and 3

00:26:193 (26193|0,26308|2,26308|0) - i get what you're trying to do here but sorry it's not doing what you think it does
00:28:039 (28039|0,28154|1,28154|0) - if you take a closer listen the one above is completely different in pitch and tone, yet both are represented in the same column //jack here are more for the intensity as the song slowly build up

00:31:962 (31962|3,31962|2,32077|2,32077|3) - are they the same pitch? if not why are they in the same column then $$
//same explanation as above, to build up the intensity
00:32:539 (32539|2,32539|1,32770|0,32770|3) - funnily enough, these are the same pitches - yet they lack the representation as shown above //funny enough that you think you can follow every pitch 100% correct in a 4k map, perhaps you didnt notice that i use (14)(23) pattern each time the music repeat
you copy pasted didn't you //you tell me

reference $$ and %% for this point
00:34:385 (34385|2,34385|1,34616|3,34616|0) - you hear those wobs in the song? yeah you could've used those to your advantage by differentiating your doubles here but alas $$ and this are the same so nope this whole section has completely no nuance. add on %% and i think you should be able to see why people are complaining about how plain this map is

00:50:077 (50077|0,50193|0,50308|0,50423|0) - this is horrendous to play as a starting burst //i dont see why its bad, if we not deleting any notes, 4th col also got 7notes only in different snap but you didnt point it out, i assume thats ok for you?
00:50:712 (50712|3,50770|3) - this one is pretty bad, 260 jumptrills and then a minijack? it's not that there's anything wrong layering-wise, i just take issue with how sudden this one is, which is kinda the music's fault but then again it's not like you didn't have the freedom to make it less awkward // thats the only 1/4 jack thru the whole kiai, and its the first sound of the burst

let's talk patterning now

00:50:308 (50308|1,50308|0,50366|2,50366|3,50423|0,50423|1,50481|3,50481|2) - i'm pretty darn sure this is a different bass beat than
00:50:539 (50539|0,50539|1,50596|2,50596|3,50654|1,50654|0,50712|2,50712|3) - so i don't understand why they're all bunched up in this jumptrill //if i'm keeping the current notes amount, (12)(34) will be the best solution here, unless you want me to change the second part to (14)(23) in order to show that changing

01:08:770 (68770|1,68770|3,69000|1,69000|3) - different pitches, same column //mapping is not just about pitch, plus its a 1/1 gap in between

01:11:885 (71885|0,71885|3,72000|2,72000|3) - these are the notes that have the same pitches, yes?
01:12:000 (72000|3,72000|2,72116|2,72116|3) - if yes to above, then why are these then the same columns? //because i want to keep the triple, as the previous pattern is double, you will always have at least one note thats in the same col

01:16:846 (76846|2,76846|3,77077|2,77077|1,77308|0,77308|1) -
01:18:693 (78693|2,78693|3,78923|0,78923|1,79154|2,79154|3) -
we agree that these are the same pitches of notes, yes?
then why are they patterned differently? fundamentally one has chords layered over each other but one doesn't so your "variety" explanation doesn't hold up cause of how differently they actually play. //these part are remapped, cant really reply

01:21:693 (81693|3,81693|0,81693|2,81808|1) - you couldn't keep the jacking up here?
01:22:154 (82154|3,82154|0,82270|1) - here too?
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9283807 - i dont see why you wouldn't want to keep the difficulty here at least somewhat consistent //same here, i've remapped this part

01:27:173 (87173|0,87231|0) - this has no justification layering-wise so i'm putting it here - why end this part on a jack? //finish sound, it deserve more impact

pay attention to which hand all the notes i highlight land on
01:27:693 (87693|3,87693|2,87808|2,87808|3) -
01:28:039 (88039|2,88039|3,88154|3,88270|2,88270|3,88385|2,88385|3,88500|3,88500|2) -
01:28:731 (88731|2,88731|3,88846|3,88846|2) -
01:29:077 (89077|2,89077|3,89193|3,89193|2) -
01:29:539 (89539|2,89539|3,89654|3,89654|2) -
01:29:885 (89885|3,90000|3,90116|3) -
01:31:385 (91385|3,91500|2,91500|3,91616|3,91616|2) -
01:31:846 (91846|2,91846|3,91962|3,92077|2,92077|3,92193|2,92193|3) -
01:32:423 (92423|3,92423|2,92539|2,92539|3) -
01:32:770 (92770|3,92770|2,92885|3,92885|2,93000|3) -

can you see anything wrong with how the whole section is layering? do you think (at least for the beginning of the section) the section is a bit heavy on the right?
and before you bring up the "this section is right then left" 01:29:539 - and 01:30:231 - disqualifies it
not that it has any merit to begin with, why would you want to make the section alternatingly right-left biased //from 01:27:693 - till 01:29:308 - , the amount of notes in right is 21 and left is 19, i dont see how is this "heavy on right", the right col are more focus on the 1/2 jack and left is more of 1/4, mix them up will just make the pattern less enjoyable

this song is horrible to chart, 01:27:693 - i perfectly understand how you didn't want to overload this section and it's really not that much your fault than it is the song (kobaryo is generally pretty meh anyway)

01:30:923 (90923|0,90923|3,91154|0,91154|3) - could've emphasized these more //thats why the SV is added here, to emphasize the vocal

again,
01:35:193 (95193|3,95193|2,95308|0,95308|1,95423|3,95423|2) -
01:37:039 (97039|3,97039|2,97154|1,97154|0,97270|2,97270|1) -
same beats but different representation

01:36:462 (96462|1,96462|0,96577|2,96577|3) - i don't get why the bass beats don't get the jack but 01:36:577 (96577|2,96577|3,96693|3,96693|0) - the bass-woob ones do, it just misplaces your emphasis on the bass here and makes everything seem messy and convoluted //because bass beat is not the focusing here

01:37:500 (97500|1,97500|0,97616|1,97616|0,97731|0) - i don't understand this one //why not, its still balance as the previous jack 01:37:270 (97270|2,97385|2,97385|3,97500|3) - all lay on the right hand




[LAYERING]
complete mess //and you want me to reply you politely

00:17:193 - there's a bass beat here // as the long sound appear, ignore other sound will bring more attention to the long sound which is the sound i wan to follow
00:19:270 - hihat // so i can focus on the 00:18:923 (18923|0,18923|3,19154|0,19154|2,19385|3,19385|0) - main sound

00:20:885 - bass beat, don't skimp on the double just because it's after muh triple there's still emphasis there //my double is for main sound, not bass beat

00:26:423 - 00:30:116 - hihat //like my previous explanation, mapping is not map everything you hear, you need to choose wisely

00:30:462 (30462|1,30462|0,30462|3) - why are these notes emphasized to such an extreme? i don't hear any crashes //first sound of the main sound as each time it repeat

00:37:154 - not sure why you ignored the 1/4s here, it's not like you couldn't have done a normal 1/4 stream just for this part because hey there's actually differentiation in this song that you can use to make your map less copy pasted maybe %%
// i can barely tell thats a 1/4 under 100% play speed, if its not that noticeable, i dont think its worthy to add note
00:37:962 (37962|2,38077|3,38077|0,38193|1) - same as above, you could've done some sort of jack progression but nope nothing %%

00:51:000 (51000|0,51116|0,51231|0) - quirky layering
00:51:000 (51000|2,51000|0,51000|3,51231|2,51231|0,51231|3) - because these are the same triples - why are they the same // 00:50:770 (50770|0,50770|1,50885|1,50885|2,51000|2,51000|3,51231|2,51231|3,51346|2,51346|1,51462|1,51462|0) - i think now u can see why

let's talk hypocrisy

00:52:212 (52212|3,52327|0) - these can very readily be argued as ghost notes, but for the sake of patterning and my argument let's say these are allowed
then 00:53:135 - 00:53:250 - 00:53:366 - are all inconsistent and fucked by that because they all have that same "note echo"
not only that, 00:52:616 - the patterning itself becomes really right-heavy
in summary, i don't see why you shouldn't remove those "note echo" notes because they're a) messing up the patterning and b) structurally inconsistent
//00:53:077 - as the pitch of the main sound goes up,to bring attention on the main sound, i ignore other sound so player wouldnt confuse

00:53:770 - to 00:54:462 - there are 1/4 snares here you skipped over //why you want the pattern to have more intensity when the song itself starts calming down

01:02:308 - this snare is so blatantly missed
even if you make the argument "hey i'm only following the synths" it just seems lazy to me that you could not have tried to incorporate them into your patterning somehow? because they're part of the song you're trying to chart here and shouldn't we as charters be striving to represent the song as well as possible? //follow more sound=/=it represent the song better.

01:08:193 (68193|0,68308|0,68308|1) - either
a) you make them not stack because they're not the same pitches or
b) 01:08:193 - you make this a double //jack because the rhythm start changing

01:10:962 - snare
before you argue that you're mostly following the synths here 01:09:923 (69923|0) - 01:11:770 (71770|1) - you might want to consider that these notes lead players into thinking that percussion is actually being followed too. if you so want to make it such that you don't have to place a note at 01:10:962 - then you better make sure that the synth sections are actually distinct from each other in this section
//i dont find it misleading, the synths are well followed

01:16:154 - a bit weird how there's no notes here just LN releases //dont find it weird as thats not even a finish sound

01:23:539 - you can most definitely have LNs here
01:21:923 - 01:23:770 - these are the same wubs actually
N01:25:385 -OW this one is inexcusable because there's no wub sound anywhere; besides the fact that this shows some measurable form of incompetency in basic layering understanding i think it shows that you're copy-pasting too
//cant reply to the 3 points above as i already remap this part

01:25:616 - wub here btw but it's fine if you ignore this one

01:25:846 - i guess you hands are bound layering-wise but i still wouldn't regard this as optimal, you could've very well done a jumpstream which emphasizes more on the synths in the music //guess we have differnt choice on this section then
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9283841 - something like this might even work fine, even though it's a bit crude as of now

01:35:885 (95885|1,95885|0,95885|3,96116|0,96116|1,96116|3) - same triple but different pitch? //i ignore the pitch here
01:35:885 (95885|3,96000|3,96116|3) - it's also why you get these things //i dont see how move 01:36:116 (96116|3) - to 3th coll will make any better

01:42:000 - not sure why this is doubled really, there's no strong sound except for a yawn which seems pretty soft to me //thats why i'm using double not triple

Feerum wrote:

Greetings.

YaHao requested a disqualify to me. It seems the map can have a bit more of discussion.

I also want to warn everyone because the language got pretty rude at some points. Keep everything on a polite level. Do not start to get passive aggressive because this is what both side's do, Mapper and Modder.
Make sure to follow the Code of Conduct with Mod posts/reply's.

Everything unrelated to this discussion will get deleted and punished in future.

Seiryuu wrote:

Completely unnecessary reply, how else do you want him to tell you the truth?

"I'm sorry sir but your plate of uncooked rice isn't very well done, here are the steps to make it better."

Grow up.

Seiryuu wrote:

Beatmap got unranked, it gives me a chance to come back and IMPROVE it, no need to get mad. Still thinking about modding but i'm quite sure everything's gonna get rejected because of your "Special" type of layering. Also if I don't understand your layering, that just means that an even larger part of the community won't.
Edit: Forgot to reply to Yahao's first point so here it is.
I'm pretty sure I have more charting & playing experience than you, so don't come whining about how I don't understand your chart, it clearly is a mess.


"The irony is that your example is actually the proper way to do it"

It's literally the truth, not trying to make any drama happen, but he HAS to accept it.
There's no need to sugarcoat anyone's words at all, speaking your mind is fine, isn't it, or are BNs and Mappers now so delicate that you have to treat them with care so that they don't explode?

Damn this community really has fallen quite a bit.

Don't make this a repeat of what happened before, if you WANT to continue the drama then go ahead, from my point of view everything is resolved properly. You know who I'm talking about.

juankristal wrote:

maybe I am just crazy idk.

TheNewBungping wrote:

OK, I wanna be involve in this map, so some mods

1|2|3|4

SPEEDCORE!! (should change to "Speedcore!!" so that it's consistent with other diffs)

00:33:346 add a note on 4 because it represents the melody more and it will also this part more balanced //the double in this section are only for the synths, i wouldnt add note just because i will make the pattern balance
00:37:039 ^
02:27:808 ^
02:31:500 add a note on 1 (same reason with above)

00:35:308 more balanced if move note on 3 to 2 //then you will have 2 jacks on the left hand, i dont see how this could make it balance
00:38:308 melody changed so maybe use variation such as https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9286064 //dont think that will be necessary
02:29:770 move note on 2 to 3 (same reason with 00:35:308)


00:48:116 looks unflow + unbalanced, so here's a suggestion that fix that and also give the part a bit of pitch relevancy https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9286105 // i make the first 2 triple same col so when change col on the 3th triple, it gives more impact
02:42:577 ^ (move note here on 2 to 1 too so it would be better flow) //1st col is already quite heavy

00:50:077 balancing pls (move note on 3 to 2)
02:44:539 ^ //prefer the current

01:00:923 (I dunno if my opinion here is rankable, but maybe do some sv lines according to the music on the break part here") //why add sv when there is no note

01:30:923 as a gimmick maybe? https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9286162 //how is this vocal become 1/8

01:43:154 - 01:44:770 pitch relevancy a bit would be great like so https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9286204
01:47:308 for balance on the part above, move 2 to 4

ok that's abt it

error_exe777 wrote:

stumbled across this and the drama i fucking love drama

top diff:

01:25:846 - used jumptrills here. ive got no problem lmao

01:38:770 - but here you didn't? //the sounds are totally different, why even compare them. Plus a 5s trills will be pain to play

i understand the second example is a longer section, but it could have some variation so it’s not identical:

you can have you're normal jump trills until 01:39:808 - where it has some capability for some 1/8 rolls, and 01:40:039 - here for some more complex patterns where it asks for it.

then when you repeat the jumptrills here 01:40:616 - you can use a different pattern eg 14-23-14-23 etc etc for variation. //dont really want to overuse trill here but others apply

also, 01:41:077 - can have some 1/8 since its there i guess???????? //its there, but i want to focus on the main sound more

now, if you're avoiding them for a good reason ignore everything but it just seemed a bit odd and/or inconsistent

other than that, all the previous concerns pointed out by others are okay imo since variation is a thing and not everything needs to be differen't because the pitch is like one note different or whatever

moderators pls dont kill me

love this map and song. might do a full mod later tbh despite the bn history

Hydria wrote:

i saw there was drama here like 15 hours after it actually happened and instead of reading any of it im just gonna drop a simple mod check regarding mainly consistency and PR

SPEEDCORE MORE LIKE SLOWCORE HAHAHAHAHHA THERE'S A YAWN IN THE SONG 55% IN

it seems like you're charting all the bell sounds as doubles which means 00:03:000 (3000|2) - 00:03:462 (3462|0) - need an extra note (there is a drum accompanying the second one and for the first one 00:03:116 (3116|0,3116|1) - doesn't have a drum accompaniment so there's got to be some consistency here) //i dont think the bell are as strong as the others but will add anyway

because 00:04:154 (4154|1,4154|0) - is a stronger sound you'd think you could maybe place a double otherwise it's sharing the same intensity as other, quieter notes here //k then

00:05:770 (5770|3,5885|1,5885|0) - maybe switch the density around here? seems like it would work better
00:07:616 (7616|0,7731|2,7731|3) - same here //hmm will keep the current as it does make much difference and i prefer the curren pattern

00:07:846 (7846|0,7846|1) - triple density as mentioned before
00:08:770 (8770|0,8770|3) - same

00:09:116 (9116|0,9116|1) - i can't see any reason for this to be a double in comparison to the density in this section //that sound is similar with 00:09:346 -

00:09:635 - sound here but no note (place at col 3) //really hard to notice this 1/4 but added

00:10:385 (10385|0,10385|3,10500|2) - these are both accompanied by the same sound why are they different densities//k

00:13:231 - grace note goes here on col 4 //a note at 1/2 line is enough

00:15:116 - singular 1/2 LN here? there is a sound there and it feels weird going unmapped //can barely hear the sound thru 100% speed but added

sounds like there should be another grace note around 00:16:500 - dunno what snap though //gonna ignore it as its the the focus here

why aren't 00:16:731 (16731|1,16962|0) - the same density as 00:14:654 (14654|3,14654|2,14885|2,14885|3) - //k

00:18:577 (18577|2) - 00:22:270 (22270|1) - why are these not a double? (you mapped it as a double here 00:20:423 (20423|3,20423|2) - ) //the double are used here for the synth sound

00:18:866 - sound here for a note //hard to hear, gonna ignore it

00:26:077 (26077|2) - only non doubled white line major note in these 2 measures, why? //dont think i've use any double for this kind of sound, will keep it single

00:26:193 (26193|0) - i can let off this one being a double because of space but not the previous suggestion

00:27:923 (27923|2) - same here with the white lines
00:29:770 (29770|1) - and here
00:31:616 (31616|2) - and here //they all tended to be single note

00:31:962 (31962|3,31962|2,32077|1,32077|2,32193|1,32193|0) - these should be ascending note descending //repattern a bit

00:33:346 (33346|1) - should be a double //no main sound so leave it single

00:33:462 (33462|3,33462|0) - debatable triple//k

00:40:846 (40846|3,40846|2) - if you're mapping triples for the strong drum beat then at least keep the ones on the white lines consistent //triple are only been used when main sound + snare drum

00:42:693 (42693|3,42693|2,42808|1,42808|0) - why are these two the same densities they're completely different //for the drum yes, they are different, but the drum is not the focus here, and adding another note 00:42:693 - will make a triple jack which is not the pattern i want

00:43:154 (43154|0,43154|3,43212|1,43270|2,43327|3) - either have this as just all singles, a jumptrill or a small js pattern

00:44:539 (44539|3,44539|1) - triple //again, it will make triple jack

if 00:46:270 (46270|0,46270|3,46270|1) - is a triple why isn't 00:46:385 (46385|3,46385|2) - //added

00:46:616 (46616|0,46616|3,46673|1,46731|2,46789|3) - past suggestion about single/double/js //keep double for the second kiai

00:46:846 (46846|0,46846|1) - the switch to just singular vocals doesn't come off that well with a double LN //hmm it works fine imo

there is gonna be one pattern complaint which is 00:52:616 (52616|2,52616|3,52673|0,52731|2,52731|3,52789|1,52789|0,52846|3,52846|2,52904|0,52962|3,52962|2,53020|1,53020|0,53077|2,53077|3) - you can do something like the following and it just works better
//rate 10/10 for this

notes can be placed on 00:53:943 - 00:54:173 - 00:54:404 - //yes, but since the song start to clam down at 00:53:423 - , simple rhythm should works better

01:02:077 (62077|1) - two sounds here = two notes, if not, why is 01:02:193 (62193|3,62193|0) - a double then like the rest of the notes in this section (this will end up effecting like 25% of his section minimum so i'm not writing "same here" for 40 lines, use your best unbiased judgement) //i think notes and LN should count differently here

01:02:308 - why is this completely audible sound just ignored //i decide not to follow this so i can focus on the main sound better, but since you're the 4th person who complain this so yea will add note for this

01:03:231 - same here

01:05:077 - and here (no more repeats)

in fact like that entire section from 01:01:846 - up to 01:09:231 - could use a rework in terms of consistency and density

01:10:616 (70616|0,70846|2) - LNs? or note 01:10:962 - ? //both been added

01:12:000 (72000|2,72000|3) - this has literally no reason to be a double //remove one

01:14:539 (74539|1,74539|2) - this has no strong drum beat to it so should be a single

01:17:539 (77539|1,77539|2,77539|0) - why is this a triple //its the first sound of the repeated main sound

01:19:385 (79385|1,79385|3,79385|0) - same

01:20:308 - until 01:25:616 - either make those notes on white lines doubles or make the notes on red lines doubles as there's a lack of consistency even if you could a held LN as a note in these sections //reworked, should be fine now

01:27:173 (87173|0,87173|1,87231|0) - that's just a bit cheeky //as i want it to be

01:28:500 (88500|3,88500|2,88500|0,88616|1,88616|0,88731|2,88731|0,88731|3) - why not use the 1/8 here //it will ruin the playability if i map them

if no 1/8 there at least make 01:28:500 (88500|3,88500|2,88500|0,88731|2,88731|0,88731|3) - doubles like they should be //they are triple because of the synth sound, quite similar with the triple starting from 01:35:077 -

same 01:30:346 (90346|3,90346|1,90346|0,90577|3,90577|0,90577|1) - or buff 01:30:693 (90693|0,90693|1,90808|2,90808|3) - instead

try 01:30:923 (90923|0,90923|3) - as a singular 1/4 ln and 01:31:154 (91154|3,91154|0) - as a singular 1/2 ln //doesnt play well with the SV

01:31:385 - until 01:34:616 - repeat section

01:35:885 (95885|1,95885|0,95885|3,96116|1,96116|3,96116|0) - why are these triples? it makes no sense because no other strong sound in this section is mapped as triples (01:35:654 (95654|2,95654|0,95654|3) - is fine due to the intensity of the sound it produces) //like i explained

01:36:693 (96693|3,96693|0,96808|2,96808|1) - singles because they're not as strong sounding as the previous notes and then make 01:36:923 (96923|0,96923|3,96923|1) - a double //k

01:38:077 (98077|3,98077|2,98193|0,98193|1) - should both be triples with their intensity //dont think their intensity is that higher than other

map 01:39:808 (99808|0,99808|1,99866|3) - as a double with one note being LN because there's a 1/8 buzz sound here completely ignored and just having it be continuous jumpstream ruins the feeling of this section here //1/8 here will just kill the playability, a 1/4 LN wouldnt make it any better as player will just read it as normal note

01:40:039 (100039|3,100039|2,100096|0,100154|2,100154|1,100212|3,100270|1,100270|0,100327|2) - same here

01:41:077 (101077|3,101077|0,101135|1,101193|3,101193|2,101250|0,101308|2,101308|1,101366|3) - same here

01:41:770 (101770|3,101798|2,101885|3,101914|2) - ctrl-G for switching of intensity (1/8 to 1/16 buzzing sound) //changed

01:42:000 (102000|3,102000|2) - map as one singular 2/1 LN //reduce one note

01:42:462 - until 01:49:846 - EVERY 2/1 note should be a double

01:50:770 - ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

im going to have to stop here for now because i need to wake up in 6 hours but i believe you have the ability to check through the rest of the diff itself to notice any more consistency issues also you better not waive this as a no change because i spent 2 hours on it unbiased over what is essentially objective issues (inconsistency should be counted as objective) and im only here to help (i already modded it once here i go again)

jakads wrote:

This might've been mentioned millions of times before, but I'm gonna point out here

01:27:693 - ~ 01:34:616 - for those sections

I don't really get why you simply skipped the 1/8 drums, they are the most iconic part for Kobaryo, the speedcore artist, hence the diffname.

idk just random complaint

also the amount of notes used seems inconsistent overall, but

juankristal wrote:

maybe I am just crazy idk.

//i doubt the playability if i map the 1/8 fully, some 1/8 are been added for variation, lets see how that work

Spartan- wrote:

Well you actually did it, as this now seems rankable. I'm impressed
Here's a few suggestions, of which probably none will be added, because I'm garbage at modding.
Main reason is to follow the music unless otherwise stated.

Ultra

00:23:885 / 02:18:346 - maybe add a roll here to follow the music shifting tone? something like this //hmm... dont think its necessary


01:00:923 - could be some stairs or rolls here and a small ln pattern at the end, since there is a lot of song, but no beatmap //this section is suppose to keep simple as the next section is quite calm, using 1/4 here will just feels weird

02:45:231 - symbol crash here, so make this a triple //unlike the first kiai (which used triple), this kiai used a lots of 1/4 JS which makes a 1/4 very hard to play, gonna say no for this

good job on making this a proper 6 star, and sorry for the garbage mods

DDMythical wrote:

ok. let me preface this by saying that none of this is directed at you as a person.
all of this is directed at the map and not you.

I am also only focusing on Speedcore!!! and Wonki's Extra (which i will do tommorow as this mod is already massive enough as-is.)

This 'mod' is also entirely based on the 'structure' of your map in terms of overall difficulty 'spikes' and 'dips'. There are some pattern-related comments but as I say, this is predominantly aimed at the structural quality of this map; which I believe is it's biggest flaw.

Now that that is out of the way. Let's get onto the 'mod'.

SPEEDCORE!!! Structural Problems

The recent mods on this have been focusing on patterning and consistency errors; I think the problems causing this map to be boring to play (sorry, but it is quite boring.)
Infact, I think the problem with this chart is purely structural in the way it climaxes difficulty and deals with slower parts of the song. For the first half of this, I will not be discussing the patterns in this map. Here is a graph of the rough difficulty throughout the song. These are arbitrary values judged on the patternical difficulty.



So first of all. What is going on in this picture.
The top half is a ROUGH graph of difficulty in the map. This is based off of pattern difficulty and to an extent-- NPS. This graph also assumes that the first Klai and third Klai are the mid-points or average difficulty in the map.

The bottom half has split each section of this maps structure up by number, repeating numbers where sections are structurally repeated. Keep in mind that this is ROUGH and nowhere near as accurate as I could get if I had MSD on my side.

First of all, what is each point in patterns? -- Click the next box for the list and reference.

So what can we actually get in useful information from this crude and rough graph? Well firstly we can analyze the amount of 'downtime' this song has (time where the difficulty is under the average of the first/third klai.) This makes up for a significant portion of the file as you can see. Infact, it is roughly this much:
This is a very large portion of the map to be 'easy' in relative comparison.

Another thing to note is the structural composition. This is a very easy map for nearly all of it yet with three distinct spikes which are all [12][34] jumptrills or extremely rolly js (which can also entirely be jumptrilled.) So what we can gather from this is that these three spikes are giving the map it's high star rating in comparison to it's overall difficulty.

So my overall conclusion in regards to structural problems in this map is that simply; It spends too much time being easy, and the times where it actually is hard; it's entirely manipulatable patterns.

SPEEDCORE!!! Segment Reference

1- 1/2 light jumpstream with light LN usage.
2- 1/2 light jumpstream with slightly more LN usage.
3- 1/2 light jumpstream with heavier LN usage
4- 1/2 light handstream with jacks leading in from jumps. Little to no LNs.
5- Bread and butter of this chart; what I would consider this file to represent with 1/2 hand-single jacks with some 1/4th rolls.
6- Second half of the klai. Massive difficulty spike with 260bpm 1/4th split jumptrills (these are 260bpm One Hand Trills; which are very difficulty for most players bar around the ability of the previous klai -- the only way for said people to do this is to mash it. -- Along with 1/8th roll transitions and Jumptrills into Hand (I'd strongly advise against this.)
7- very simple LNs (like 1.5-2.5seconds between LN hold changes) for a long period of time.
8- 1/1 very light stream with breaks for LNs.
9- 1/2 light handstream.
10- 1/1 gluts with some hands.
11- Actually the same as 5; not noted the same because this isn't in a klai.
12- a 1/4 jumptrill into hand (260bpm)
13- 1/4th handstream bursts (260bpm)
14- 1/2 gluts with hands
15- Massive difficulty spike with 260bpm 1/4th rolly js. This is manipulatable enough to be jumptrilled but this does not negate the difficulty spike at this segment.
16- 1/1 extremely light jumpstream (massive difficulty drop-off)
//try give the timing, its kinda hard for me to tell each section is from where to where base on the graph

SPEEDCORE!!! Structural Fixes

This is the 'mod' of this 'mod'. As you've probably noticed already this mod goes a lot deeper into the underlying problems of this map rather than patternical problems (e.g. consistency, hand balance) since that has been gone over by 4-5 people above me since the DQ and probably lots more since then.

---- Making the file overall less 'spiky' ----

So by starting off I'd like to define 'Section 5' -- check reference -- for a good difficulty baseline here. What needs to be evened out is the use of the easier sections (1,2,3,4,7,8,9,10,16,17) and the difficulty spikes in sections 6, 12 and 15. So for example. The spikes in sections 6 and 12 should still be spikes; they should still be climaxes of the song and increase in difficulty, but at the moment they are simply too deviant from this maps rough difficulty.

For Section 6: I think the patterns should be changed entirely from 1/4th split jumptrills into 1/4th JS bursts (Not the rolly kind. The more splitrolly kind.) This way you can lead into the hands and into the 1/8th roll bursts much easier and with much more flow. I also think the usage of jacks here are perfectly fine to break the JS style.//remake the trills
//it plays worse if i split the trills to some "1/4 single + 1/2 double pattern"

For Section 12: I don't personally mind this spike. The jumptrill is clearly a PP spike and I don't really see any other rankable way to de-spike this. I think one thing that almost certainly be changed is the exiting transition. The jumptrills are effectively 1/2 alternating jacks which are already roughly the difficulty of this map x2 (down a bit for being a comfortable pattern but still a spike.)

For Section 15: This JS should not nearly be as dense. I think this should be much lighter JS but not as rolly. This would be less of a spike and more interesting in patterning. //this section is the most intense part of the song (beside the kiai), some people even suggest me to make full 1/4 trill or map the 1/8 fully. This part is still easier than both kiai i dont see how this is spiky

---- Making the file overall less easy. ----

Starting off here I would like to say that easier parts of files are crucial to making it structurally interesting. The problem with this map is that it spends too much time on the easier parts. The 'outro' of this file starting from 02:56:308 (176308|3) - Is something that can be made much more interesting by taking advantage of the 'echo' coming from the synth sound. You could have 1/2 jacks echoing off the quads and hands. This would make the outro less 'boring' to play and imo, less dull.
//some LN are been added, like i did to the similar section 01:16:616 -

The biggest problem here is the near-1minute downtime between 01:42:000 (102000|3) - and 02:34:154 (154154|2) - . (50sec but w/e.) This is a massive structural flaw as since the song is only 3 minutes long, this makes this downtime section alone account for around 30% of the file. This is a massive portion to be spent doing something massively easier than the klai times in the file. So how can this be fixed?

The Section 1's should be changed into pitch relevant segments; I think an emphasis on pitch relevancy would be more interesting to play and reduce the 'boring' and 'dull' parts of this downtime.

Section 2 can easily be redefined as long-jacks: 00:23:423 (23423|1,23654|1) - By moving notes like these to 1 to make nice long pitch relevant jacks, You can make this section more interesting and as such, the downtime less dull and more interesting to focus on acc and interesting pattern/structural development.

The Section 3's should be changed into 3 note jacks instead of minitrills around the LNs. An emphasis on pitch relevancy here would also make things much more interesting.

I don't think Section 4 is bad at all. I think you could abuse the 'echo' of the sounds you mapped to quads/hands by having the next note come of it as a 1/2 jack.

Section 10 is where you can also use the 'echo' to make a jack section like an easier version of section 5: You can have jacks coming off at 01:16:731 (76731|1) - throughout this section.

I believe sections 16 and 17 are too easy in terms of overall difficulty in comparison to this chart. These make up for about 20 seconds or 10% of this file. I don't believe this is bad but I believe you could incorporate some minijacks into this section a-la nearly every other section
//these part are "easy" because thats how the song itself sounds to me. They are harder than Wonki's Extra which fit the diff spread, and as the song's intensity slowly build up, each section is harder than the previous section to show the changing on the music, make them harder will just break the feeling i want

Temporary Closing

I have to go to sleep now: this took me about 1hr to write and I will do Wonki's Extra with similar points but you can basically apply the points I make here to Wonki's Extra. I hope you can read through this mod and understand where I am coming from with this structural argument.

I think with these fixes the map will be much more interesting to play and overall less 'boring' if you know what I mean. I'd also like to apologize for the crude drawings. The only thing I had on me was MSPaint so I had to roughly estimate everything but I think I was decently accurate with what I was rating.

DDMythical wrote:

qqqant wrote:

I really don't think this map is ready for bubble... this is just my concern, there are still a few problems people have pointed out before that haven't been fixed. And some of the patterns are kind of uncomfortable too.

YaHao wrote:

qqqant wrote:

I really don't think this map is ready for bubble... this is just my concern, there are still a few problems people have pointed out before that haven't been fixed. And some of the patterns are kind of uncomfortable too.

Was replying to this, what are you even on about ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

YaHao wrote:

And as i said i did reply to that mod, if you not happy with my respond, the leave it to the QAT to decide, simple as that

qqqant wrote:

YaHao wrote:

And as i said i did reply to that mod, if you not happy with my respond, the leave it to the QAT to decide, simple as that

what i meant was, most of the actual valid points are in those posts, yet you rejected almost all of them.

YaHao wrote:

Just be specific instead of using words like "Have some problem", "some pattern uncomfortable"

Litharrale wrote:

I'm a little uncomfortable with this map being bubbled again despite how contentious this map is and how little its changed since the DQ

I understand that you dont have to accept all issues and redwalling posts is completely ok but this feels a bit like you're trying to sneak the map through rather than actually addressing the issues and finding a compromise. The NPS spikes do seem.... extreme

Todestrieb wrote:

YaHao wrote:

Just be specific instead of using words like "Have some problem", "some pattern uncomfortable"

DD posted more than hundreds of lines and you just dismissed all with pretty much five lines, without responding to them per case. And now you are in a defensive mode.

YaHao wrote:

For god sake i wasnt replying to that DDM, can you at least read the previous post before jump to the conclusion, i replied all the fix suggestion, how is that not enoguh

Todestrieb wrote:

YaHao wrote:

For god sake i wasnt replying to that DDM, can you at least read the previous post before jump to the conclusion, i replied all the fix suggestion, how is that not enoguh

Even if you weren't replying to DD with that, you are just ignoring what is the real problem with the set. You have been asking people to be more specific, to give proper reason why they would like to see some changes applied to this mapset. But once someone came with a lot of time invested in trying to explain to you why a lot of people disliked seeing this getting qualified, you just shrugged it off (or you gave this impression by writing a really short answer to his posts).
If i can explain myself in few lines, why bother to write an essay. Just because i rejected the mod doesnt mean i ignore it

Also, the song being spiky doesn't mean the rest should be THAT easy. It could definetly have been layered a lot harder without removing the feeling of the song being spiky. By looking at it, It feels both underlayed for the easy parts compared to the song AND overlayered compared to the rest of the chart for the "spiky bits".
it can go harder yes, but current notes amount represent well enough and thats what i want which maters the most

Anyway, I'm also strongly against it getting ranked in It's current state, but I guess the community needs to deals with it since It looks like It's going to be qualified again.

Good luck on the road ahead!

DDMythical wrote:

YaHao wrote:

i replied all the fix suggestion, how is that not enoguh

Because you didn't actually fix the problems I mentioned. You glossed over my entire mod and only read the objective patterning changes without looking at nearly anything else I said about the map.

The fact is this map is too spiky and as a result it plays terribly.
i did read thru everything, nice mspaint graph, but still, my answer is the same

YaHao wrote:

As i explained, the spikes pattern is due to the song itself, and its what i want it to be. Plus it fit the mapset diff spread, all patterns are harder than wonki's diff, i dont see how that become a problem

No it's not. You're ignoring so many sounds that could add difficulty to even out the difficulty spikes of ultra and extra.
Because I simply dont want to raise the difficulty or reduce the spikiness, and if you want to talk about extra, drop your thought and i will ask wonki to reply them

This is nothing to do with the song. Nor is it anything to do with the diffspread.
How can you discuss a map/pattern without the music, are we playing a rhythm game or just smashing keyboard for PP. And in case you dont know, diff spread matters a lots, it limit the difficulty, if all the "easy part" that you claimed are easier than Wonki's Extra, then thats definitely a underlaying

It's cool that you 'want' it to be this spiky but as a matter of fact it is too spiky for people to enjoy. Simply put if you can do the hard bits the rest of this file becomes extremely boring. If you can't do the hard bits you just fail on them unfairly (you could get there with a 96+ and then die instantly because of them.) The structure of this file makes it absolutely terrible to play because of them.
To me if I make the map so hard that people fail on the part which arent even the intense part of the music is also terrible to play

These diff spikes need fixing before this should be considered acceptable to rank.

DDMythical wrote:

1.) No they do not represent well enough. This map is so boring if you can do the dense parts because so much of it just feels like 2 difficulties down.
they are for me, thank you
2.) While what matters the most is entirely subjective; What you want is not more relevant than what the players want on a scale of people involved.
If your charts are only for yourself and not for the people playing them: why are you trying to rank them where everyone now has to play them?
i'm making this map for people who wants to play it, obviously you are not one of them, and where you get this idea of "everyone has to play ranked map", i never touched map that i dont like, maybe you should do the same

I spend my time on modding this so you should spend your time in response. What's the point in having a discussion to improve this file for the players who are playing it if the only thing you care about is how it looks to you and nobody else? Like I said above; if that's all you care about then there is simply no reason for this to be ranked for other people.
Spending more time on the mod doesnt make the mod more valuable. If something i not agree with, i will still reject it not matter how long you spend on that suggestion, appreciate the effort tho

OK lets discuss the music then; If you even read my mod you'd probably know that I went through the musical relevance of buffs to the easier sections but lol who reads that.

Discuss the music

00:54:462 (54462|0,54462|2,54462|3) - These Aahhhhs can easily be represented by streams. The problem there is at the moment with using a simple LN structure over it is that there is practically 4 empty seconds of stuff in your file when the song is still somewhat relevant.
the music start to clam down at this point, just like the next part of the song, again you're ignoring the music and overall pattern design just to have "harder pattern"
00:25:154 (25154|3) - The sounds in this section echo; You still fit the music if you create an echoing minijack coming off of the note so as to make these sections less easy and buff them up to reasonable levels with the rest of the file.
There is none because I decided not to, "make these section less easy" is not a reason for me to change it

This applies for the entirety of that section. Funnily enough I'm just repeating my mod at this point. Why am I even writing this. Go read my mod.
and then i have to reject the mods again

Diffspread means nothing in the arguments against this map. Nobody is complaining about the diffspread so therefore it is not a relevant discussion to have on this file; you should stop bringing it up.
i keep bring this up because i want you to know, this is not a unrankable issue, and its up to the mapper's decision hence you should stop forcing me to change it

I find it absolutely hilarious you use the 'or just smashing keyboard for pp' argument. You are aware that is literally what this file is? Nothing for 3 mins with one spike which involves smashing your keyboard for pp; or atleast in relevance to the difficulty of the rest of the file, anyone at the skill level to just about do the first klai baseline of difficulty will be mashing the 34NPS jumptrill sections.
I said that because it seeming you're not listening to the music at all when it comes to pattern, not deeper meaning behind

There is a difference between people failing because of things that are their own faults (for example running out of stamina, Misreading patterns too often etc.) and people failing because of massive difficulty spikes that don't feel fair. Every mistake on files such as AiAe feels like your own mistake but on files like this; it just feels like you've been cheated by a massive 260bpm 3Xnps spike that is so far from the rest of the difficulty of the file.
How is this not fair, this is a 6* map and people should know that before playing, and should be well prepared for the burst part

YaHao wrote:

Not saying the burst is not spike but at least people wouldnt feel unfair from its SR
Using SR in my argument is because you bring up the topic of player fail on the hard part and feel unfair [...]

YaHao wrote:

5 days later

YaHao wrote:

//do you really think i care about people's attention at this point?

YaHao wrote:

//they are for synth sound, similar with with what i did in Normal, only the catchy part are been doubled

YaHao wrote:

//no to this, as i'm not doubling the hihat

YaHao wrote:

//pitch is not the focusing here, if i place the short LN all pitch relevant, the pattern will be quite hard to play

YaHao wrote:

//i'm sure here got no main sound which i was following

YaHao wrote:

//like my last explanation, i'm sure 00:40:731 - got no synth sound, there is clearly a break in between, and the triple was used for double for kick + one LN for the synth sound

YaHao wrote:

//then there will be so little room for the next note, i will have to place two 1/2 jack on the same hand

YaHao wrote:

//how is this become the main sound, like my LN part, they are the 100% same rhythm and you were fine with it not being LN (00:43:962 - )

YaHao wrote:

//to me the double on the previous 1/4 line is more important

YaHao wrote:

//can hear the sound on left channel, not hihat but like wub/echo sound, the notes are added so player can have a "continuing" feeling on the pattern unlike 00:52:270 - which can easily hear the break on the rhythm

YaHao wrote:

//the first sound of the repeated melody

YaHao wrote:

//the kick sound (which mapped as 1/4 trill) are stopped 1/4 ahead of the [14], if i'm keeping the double and make them [34], that will be so wrong because the sounds are totally different, a 1/4 jack here is to show that sudden break on the rhythm, plus the pattern around it are quite easy, shouldnt be hard to play

YaHao wrote:

//you can hear cymbal sound on both timing

YaHao wrote:

//i only used 1/8 3 times in this diff as 1/8 with high BPM like this are usually plays really bad, the least thing i want to do here is to mix the 1/4 with 1/8

YaHao wrote:

//smth thats playable is better than pattern that only looks fancy but less enjoyable, at least for me, this part is remapped, will see how that work

YaHao wrote:

//there are all triple now after i remapped it yesterday

YaHao wrote:

//change to 1/6 which i feel more accurate

YaHao wrote:

//i wouldnt use "pretty clear" on this sound, i didnt map it because there is a break on the melody, and as the 1/2 slowly comes in, then i mapped them fully

YaHao wrote:

//the music start to calm down right after the kiai, making some high intense pattern whouldnt do anything good to this section

YaHao wrote:

//funny enough here is like the less copy paste i've done in this map, if you understand it just say the word, instead of calling it a mistake, can also look at my respond for 01:10:846

YaHao wrote:

//they are already quad here

YaHao wrote:

Is that so

YaHao wrote:

You are the one who said will be back respond my mod, and I respect that so i didnt do any update in the past 5 days. Then here you are saying I'm not worth the time, maybe i should just ignore you and move on my map, save more time for both of us.

YaHao wrote:

Like i'm not familiar with the ranking process that i need you to remind me. I reject mod because they are wrong, and i even explain why i didnt change it, not like i just leave a big No Change and thats it. Too bad your mod were rejected

YaHao wrote:

"Inconsistencies", the two part 00:24:923 - and 00:25:731 - are totally different, thats why the pattern is different, 00:26:770 - Here however has the same sound so i used same pattern structure. Ofc i wouldnt admit something thats not even there

- 00:24:920 to 00:32:308
This structure is very unclear; you have repeating doubles for repeating notes in the melody at 00:25:154 and 00:25:385, but then the rest of the section has no doubles at all until the melody restarts. If the doubles are for the purpose of layering hi-hats, then there are doubles missed at 00:25:962 and 00:26:077 - however, I doubt that was the purpose here. Your incorrect representation of the melody continues until the end of the section.

Halogen- wrote:

[...] but then the rest of the section has no doubles at all until the melody restarts. [...]

YaHao wrote:

Like i cant play this section or judge the playability of this pattern. Again, the pitch is not the focusing here, and the current pattern plays fine and not hard to read

YaHao wrote:

Feel free to do so, I'm not adding the LN because the sound is not significant enough, we are making a map not a music sample note

YaHao wrote:

Using things like "i make music" "i'm pro at playing 4k blah blah blah" doesnt make your mod/point more value to me.

YaHao wrote:

Then why you didnt point out the LN first in the earlier section, I dont hear any melody here

YaHao wrote:

Halogen- wrote:

so, you’re saying the double which only represents a kick and nothing else is more important than the note that has a cymbal crash, bass kick, and a melodic element that you clearly represent as triples in this same combination earlier. got it.

Yup

YaHao wrote:

00:52:270 - 00:52:846 - They are different in so many way, the synth is different, the kick clearly has a break in between. And its the last section of the kiai, using continuation here can build the intensity up as the song itself goes up

YaHao wrote:

The triple are not randomly added, yes i do think its more important than other same sound because its the first sound of the repeated melody

YaHao wrote:

Are you serious about the sound not audible? Its not kick thats what make it special compare with the previous [12][34] trills which for kick. Mapping is not just about kick double cymbal triple and others just using single

YaHao wrote:

Mapping is not just about kick double cymbal triple and others just using single

Halogen- wrote:

ask another BN that is actually impartial to you.

Litharrale wrote:

Halogen- wrote:

ask another BN that is actually impartial to you.

hi

DDMythical wrote:

* who is also competent and able to play this chart