I really don't like the idea of waiting for results of the round where the max:300 aspect matters the most by far, but eh, nothing I can do about it at this point.
I do agree that having system changes in midst of a tournament is a bit silly, but I do feel that if it's to ensure a more accurate assesment of ability, I don't think it's a problem in itself. The fact that it is unfinished does justify the change.Khelly wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks it's silly to have a system potentially changed through the tournament (That it'a specifically made for) because of being unfinished?
Unless you redo round1 after a fix if that ever was needed.
I'm going to have to agree with Shoegazer on this. At first when I heard people were talking about how 200s were overemphasis, I thought it wasn't change a lot but when I saw those picture, that is crazy. I'm pretty sure every mania player would want this too be fix because we all know accuracy is key in mania. Just because someone has a rainbow ratio of 11:1 and someone has 4:1, that doesn't mean the person with the 4:1 ratio should win just because he has 1 less 200... (juan vs Hudonom). Need to be fix asap! It's not too late to change this before MWC starts.Shoegazer wrote:
I would much rather see the change now, especially since group stages is the round where MAX accuracy matters the most, and cases like this and this (lim vs bumpinho) are going to be very common. I don't think the competitors will mind a change in MAX weightage especially since it'd be similar to scorev1 would look like (which makes for easier transitioning) and from what I've talked to with other players, they certainly wouldn't mind having a change in MAX weightage if it meant for a more accurate assessment of ability. The frame of reference of what defines an SS will be malleable, especially since they know that these context of an SS is now situational.
V2 scoring is only available as an option in multiplayer.numbermaniac wrote:
How do the map scoreboards work if most people are playing with ScoreV1 but those with Cutting Edge have V2?
Combo, lim got more 300/200 on <400combo because of score multiplierlim38 wrote:
Only 2pts separation gap for only the difference between 2 300 xD
Can we please get rid of the combo component? These kind of wonky differences are going to be a thing as long as combo is involved in the scoring system.Tidek wrote:
Combo, lim got more 300/200 on <400combo because of score multiplierlim38 wrote:
Only 2pts separation gap for only the difference between 2 300 xD
Is it still too much to ask for when this major feature is inherently flawed? Because this clearly is the case with the combo component, as can be seen in some of the scores posted in this thread. The scoring system's combo aspect can most definitely be improved upon without completely removing it, but it's always going to be susceptible to producing undesirable scores.Khelly wrote:
The second thing is a bit too much to ask for since they've already decided that that's going to be a major feature and that's final.
As a mod, yes pleaseSquishykorean wrote:
...
What do you mean by combo mod? What would it do?Squishykorean wrote:
Has anyone talked about combo as being a mod?
Just like how perfect and sudden death are mods, combo is pretty much just the more lenient form of sudden death where you don't die when you combo break. It could give like a score multiplier or something so people have an incentive to use it.
So on a song that is really hard to FC because of some dense minijack or burst that only a few people can get will be much more rewarding for those who can FC and won't be discouraged if their full combo was beaten by some better accuracy player that completely missed that one impossible section.
This would make it more appealing for tourneys as missing a note midway basically ruins your potential from scoring an even remotely decent score while getting a full combo will be very rewarding.
He means to have options on which scoring method to use. The combo mod in this sense would use the combo based scoring.Full Tablet wrote:
What do you mean by combo mod? What would it do?
In that case, wouldn't it better if both scoring methods were calculated simultaneously for each play, and both values are recorded in the play? In leaderboards, people would have an option to sort by combo scoring or accuracy score.abraker wrote:
He means to have options on which scoring method to use. The combo mod in this sense would use the combo based scoring.Full Tablet wrote:
What do you mean by combo mod? What would it do?
"Skill" isn't all about accuracy. Although most people agree it should be the largest factor, players have a variety of other skills which some focus more than others and that should deserve some acknowledgement in their score. In this case, it would be for players with the speed/finger dexterity to hit those few extra notes in the hardest part of a map to keep their full combo compared to accuracy players who will skim through that section and perfect everything else on the map.Full Tablet wrote:
Accuracy score should be the main value used for the rest of the performance and ranking system (as long there is only one ranking based on the one-dimensional pp value of each player), since the count of the judgments is a more reliable statistic to base inferences about the skill of a player, compared to the length of string of non-misses (mixing both by adding two different formulas together doesn't make it better than a pure accuracy-based formula either, the quality of the formula used for overall score increases the lower the weight of the combo portion of it is).
The thing is, combo is not a good way to measure the aspect of skill you mention either.Squishykorean wrote:
"Skill" isn't all about accuracy. Although most people agree it should be the largest factor, players have a variety of other skills which some focus more than others and that should deserve some acknowledgement in their score. In this case, it would be for players with the speed/finger dexterity to hit those few extra notes in the hardest part of a map to keep their full combo compared to accuracy players who will skim through that section and perfect everything else on the map.
What you (and I) want is better achieved by increasing the significance of a single miss. Accuracy players will be harshly (but fairly) punished for missing, and speed/dexterity players still stand a chance with their lower accuracy and higher combos. If ScoreV2 were to drop the combo component and go this route, we would have a scoring system that...:Squishykorean wrote:
"Skill" isn't all about accuracy. Although most people agree it should be the largest factor, players have a variety of other skills which some focus more than others and that should deserve some acknowledgement in their score. In this case, it would be for players with the speed/finger dexterity to hit those few extra notes in the hardest part of a map to keep their full combo compared to accuracy players who will skim through that section and perfect everything else on the map.Full Tablet wrote:
...
Kempie wrote:
If ScoreV2 were to drop the combo component and go this route, we would have a scoring system that...:
- rewards players for keeping their combo.
When all you do is remove the combo component, misses aren't sufficiently punished for, i.e. keeping combo (not missing) isn't as big of a deal as it should be. By making misses more punishing, you are "rewarding" (more like not punishing) players that do not miss, and thus keep their combo.Ayaya wrote:
Kempie wrote:
If ScoreV2 were to drop the combo component and go this route, we would have a scoring system that...:
- rewards players for keeping their combo.
So you should cater to the people migrating rather than having them adapt or leave like they should?Squishykorean wrote:
This is purely opinion based but what this seems to be turning into is another stepmania scoring system and with lots of players here coming from that game, it would only be natural to lean towards their scoring system.
Getting a chain of misses in isolation is an extremely rare scenario. In hard sections particularly, it is complemented with 100s and 50s, which is the major proportion of the penalty of a general CB rush/bad judgement rush. It's not misses that are particularly penalising despite the slightly higher penalty per judgement, since they happen less frequently than 50s/100s. A CB rush will almost always punish a player far more than misses in isolation, not necessarily because of the combo multiplier, but because of the accuracy component.Squishykorean wrote:
Yes I would agree punishing misses more harshly would solve much of the problem. The only thing that might make this slightly unattractive is the fact someone might mess up and cause a chain of misses even though they are hitting the notes correctly. The current combo multiplier doesn't punish as hard when this happens because as long as you recover and don't miss later, you are still given a chance at getting a decent score despite a tiny screw up that the game mechanics happened to snowball on.
Would you reward a player that missed 5 notes spread out throughout the map equally to a player who hit a chord wrong and missed 5 consecutive notes together?
This is purely opinion based but what this seems to be turning into is another stepmania scoring system and with lots of players here coming from that game, it would only be natural to lean towards their scoring system.