Case in point, look at my top PP earning score:


I'm gonna miss those points.
I'm gonna miss those points.
Tidek wrote:
Does SV/BPM changes affect pp?
Its impossible to change scrolling speed while playing now, but as I remember It was possible to do while pausing a game (so, we have pretty high scores on "bpm jumpy" maps, now its pretty hard to get high acc on maps like this http://osu.ppy.sh/s/107565 because of scrolling speed).
Was already implemented, but then removed. And tbh I don't like the fact of playing w/ mods to get more points.Tidek wrote:
Tidek wrote:
Does SV/BPM changes affect pp?
Its impossible to change scrolling speed while playing now, but as I remember It was possible to do while pausing a game (so, we have pretty high scores on "bpm jumpy" maps, now its pretty hard to get high acc on maps like this http://osu.ppy.sh/s/107565 because of scrolling speed).
Bumping this and 1 more question, does DT in future will affect PP? Because atm its pretty useless mod to use because you are not getting any bonus for map difficulty...
There haven't been updates to the pp system for any of the modes in a while, so don't worry - Tom is not specifically ignoring this thread or anything. I'm assuming he's busy with personal stuff; just give it some time and eventually updates will happen.-Kamikaze- wrote:
also we didn't really get any response about EZ mod and I don't see changes in mod key weighting, is this thread already abandoned? D:
It's already been determined that score alone is not an accurate measure of performance and that your best score may not mean your best performance.mathl33t wrote:
I just lost 1 pp by beating my best score on a map. My accuracy went down, so maybe it's that. If it is, then scoring needs to be looked at. One or the other of pp and scoring needs to be fixed so that this situation doesn't happen.
Funny thing that I've beaten my Utakata, Ai no Mahoroba [LV.28] S (95,3%, 800k pts) with an A (94,92%, 821k) and it went from 230pp worth to 237pp. I believe acc has nothing to do with it, it's just weighted by score.Meseki wrote:
It's already been determined that score alone is not an accurate measure of performance and that your best score may not mean your best performance.mathl33t wrote:
I just lost 1 pp by beating my best score on a map. My accuracy went down, so maybe it's that. If it is, then scoring needs to be looked at. One or the other of pp and scoring needs to be fixed so that this situation doesn't happen.
However, I believe that fixing that issue would require either a scoreboard wipe (of over 6 years of scores, since I'm pretty sure the issue applies to all modes) or storing two scores on the server, which would drastically increase the space used.
It's a problem that we may have no choice but to deal with.
That's true.PyaKura wrote:
IIRC Tom said acc DOES have to do with it, but it's far more negligible than actual score.
You still got a crap ton of pp for a halftime mod o_ozKskita wrote:
I just beat my highest EZ score in Zirkfied with HT by quite a wide margin and went from A to S. The result was losing 16 pp...
This is why I thought we should have a MAT (Mania appreciation team) or something like that. A computer can't compute the difficulty of a mania map like it can for any other game mode difficulty since mania hasn't been around long on osu!. The minds of 20 players more or less if needed can come up with a better solution of difficulty rating. The only problem with starting a team like that is finding a group of well balanced people. I have a few on my mind who could possibly do something like this, but only a few and not knowing if they'd be willing at first.Drace wrote:
Well that's to be expected with an algorithm without any pattern recongnition
The reason I said "I" was because Tom brought up the topic again to me after a suggestion to peppy I gave weeks before the chat feud. (That was when the whole DT PP giving too much feud was happening.)Drace wrote:
"You" were not the one who thought of it, watch your wording. It was first brought up by Envi and me on page 7.
Considering how we can't even find BATs, a diff grading team might actually not be the best idea. Well for now atleast.
HAHAHAHA XD17VA wrote:
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/370840
native faith 1K master? - why 1K
ACs' SR may very well be broken. You're also comparing an extreme 7K mania spec with a (extreme ?) 4K AC here..._Gezo_ wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/92190 <= 7.11, passed by a lot of people, some being very close to 99%
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/179779 + p/3160605 <= 7.13, having played it I am sure Staiain will have a very hard time passing it.
Why ?
Pya being Pya, move along citizensPyaKura wrote:
senpia
SM_Bluefusion wrote:
I think some lower ranked players lost (quite) some PP or am I wrong?
Did something change?
Or they could have stopped being considered for pp entirely. My EZ pass with Shuffle Heaven completely disappeared ._.Tornspirit wrote:
SM_Bluefusion wrote:
I think some lower ranked players lost (quite) some PP or am I wrong?
Did something change?
I believe EZ and HT got heavily, heavily nerfed so you can't just spam a song too hard for you on EZ/HT and still get heaps of pp.
And autoconverts still give over 300ppTornspirit wrote:
SM_Bluefusion wrote:
I think some lower ranked players lost (quite) some PP or am I wrong?
Did something change?
I believe EZ and HT got heavily, heavily nerfed so you can't just spam a song too hard for you on EZ/HT and still get heaps of pp.
you need to adjust speed through F3 or F4 in-game or ctrl + or - before starting the song. It's no bug, it's intended.Ulqux wrote:
NOTE: Not exactly sure whether I should report this problem in this thread or start a new one(haven't really been on the forums though I've been playing Osumania! for some time). I'm neither sure whether this problem has already been reported before and solved(haven't found a thread or somewhere on the internet about this problem....).
Also: This is my first post so please don't slaugther me for my inexperience and wrongdoings(as well as poor english)?
I have more or less a problem concerning Osumania! that are actually somewhat pretty irritating...
The problem is:
Slowed note falling speed, but higher note density.
The beatmap still properly follows the song in regards to when a note should be played, but the speed at which the notes falls are significantly slower than what it is supposed to be, and in the meanwhile the notes are far closer(which is why the beatmap still properly follows the song, but goes at a slower rate..).
I found that I could fix this problem on some maps by replaying a ranked map, that goes at the proper speed, which will in turn fix the wrong speed for me.
The problem is then that this does obviously not work for maps that are not ranked..(know that they are slower cuz my brother also have the beatmap and it goes significantly faster, though with the notes spread out some more...)
When you progress into harder songs it's actually easier to play at higher speeds as long as you can follow the notes since patterns gets more complex and density of notes gets tighter.Ulqux wrote:
Oh is that so..
Never knew about.....
Looking it up again...
So it's the osumania note falling speed, that any1 can change in order to find what fits them the most?
It feels a bit strange as slower note falling speed makes songs so much easier to play compared to faster... but maybe it may be just because I'm still a novice Osumania player...
Actually long maps aren't necessarily giving heaps of pp; currently some of the more overrated maps, such as Koi Yomi Zakura, Utakata Ai no Mahoroba, Atropos, Poppin Shower are only around 2 minutes, and give more than they honestly should, while some long songs definitely are underrated such as fortissimo and workaholic. Larger problems are that low level 7k gives a hell of a lot less than low level 4k, vice versa for higher levels, and songs with heavy LN being underrated compared to songs with heaps of chords.Allium97 wrote:
I think there is a pretty bad problem in the formula. I mean... it takes into account the length of the song, so long songs give lots of pp even if they aren't that hard. And if I got it right it doesn't care about the avg./peak density of the song. I don't think it would be overwhelmingly difficult to improve this.
Map popularity and score rank achieved aren't factors in the current pp system anymore (they were factors in ppv1 only).Noobrage wrote:
1. My english sucks/ enough to understand me
2. I haven't read much in this thread
I actually hate the rankingsystem we got. It shows like 0% improvment. The rankingsystem feels atm like = get a decent rank on a popular song for much PP.
But i dont want to play the popular maps only just to improve my ranking beside there arent even many maps that give you a bunch of PP for a decent rank.
I did climb about 9k places on different maps together today and i've earned about 20 PP for these 9k places.
Play Waterhorizon get Rank 2k and gain 329804723874 PP
I mean guys here is obviously something wrong....
actually your pp is directly related to the score and stars on a map and nothing elsePyaKura wrote:
lol there is no direct link between score and pp awarded
The accuracy percentage also influences the pp gained a bit, but the influence of it is decreased when the star difficulty of the map increases (so, at some point, the influence of it is so small score is the only things that matters).Aqo wrote:
actually your pp is directly related to the score and stars on a map and nothing elsePyaKura wrote:
lol there is no direct link between score and pp awarded
yeah
It depends on how it is considered overmapped or not, if you manage to map something that is really hard that is well mapped and still not called 'overmapped', then you're good to go.Tristan97 wrote:
I have a quick question about ranking criteria. What are the limits as to the upper end of difficulty for osu!mania maps? I know it’s very difficult to mod properly, but is there a certain star rating that isn’t even rankable even the map is well mapped to a song that fits the genre necessary to create a crazy challenging beatmap?
It would be super cool to see people get over a thousand performance points for a truly difficult song, like Act 2 Liberation 5k CC
sadly this does not hold true for standardcaiorandom wrote:
It depends on how it is considered overmapped or not, if you manage to map something that is really hard that is well mapped and still not called 'overmapped', then you're good to go.Tristan97 wrote:
I have a quick question about ranking criteria. What are the limits as to the upper end of difficulty for osu!mania maps? I know it’s very difficult to mod properly, but is there a certain star rating that isn’t even rankable even the map is well mapped to a song that fits the genre necessary to create a crazy challenging beatmap?
It would be super cool to see people get over a thousand performance points for a truly difficult song, like Act 2 Liberation 5k CC
There's not very many songs that can allow for something crazy to map (at least in mania). They do exist though, but good luck finding them lolBobbias wrote:
The problem we've been having is that most mappers capable of mapping that difficulty properly don't bother making something rankable.
That was brought up and discussed 5 or 6 months ago and look at amount of stuff changed.laishiou wrote:
my idea is that stream songs which only rely one one note for their streams opposed to chordstreams which involve lots of 2+ notes at once end up being harder at lower star ratings so a 3.5 star stream will be harder then a 4.2 star chordstream for example, this is something that needs to be fixed but then the issue i see is 4k being even more overated at early levels due to this, ill let you work this out since i hv no idea how to deal with this problem o.o
Doesn't matter how long o!m's been out, peppy wouldn't change it anyway. :/PyaKura wrote:
Even if you say that it's already too late to implement it and I can hardly imagine a different "ranking system" just for a single game mode (especially since o!m is only 2 years old) since osu!'s been around for quite a while now.
If pp (or rank score, or any other value used for rank) went up noticeably whether or not you did well, then lowdiff farming wouldn't be avoided (unless the scaling from difficulty increases extremely fast with difficulty, for example, the easiest map in the game gives 1 point, a mid-tier map gives 10^35 points, and a top-tier map gives 10^45 points). The purpose of the decrease of pp gain rate from plays is limiting the amount of pp obtained from playing many maps of similar difficulty without increasing the difficulty over time. If the difficulty calculation of the pp system is accurate, then players will keep getting pp as long as they increase the difficulty (or performance) of the maps they play (because of that, a good difficulty calculator for osu!mania maps is very important for making the pp system better).Tear wrote:
Ranked score was better than pp, because it didn't pretend to be a proper ranking system. It was a motivation to play because it was going up no matter if you did well or badly, doing well just made it go up faster - unlike pp, which awards you points at first and then slows down, leaving players frustrated and demotivated. Why do we need a proper ranking system? Just a quick look at a few leaderboards tells you who's the best at the game. To fix lowdiff farming, ranked score could be scaled just like mania charts were.
Can't say I disagree with that. At least I can say I tried.-Kamikaze- wrote:
I actually think that current system is a good base onto something really awesome. Good and wasted base.
bluh bluh ban all autoconvertsFirst, what ARE autoconverts? I'm not a "mania" purist - I'm casual as crap, I only really started getting a smudge more pp-happy in the past like... ...month or so, and even then, I just want to try to keep over 100K - not an overly hard goal.
rank _k scores separatelyHow about "no"? There's debuffs for altering the Ks, and the bigger difference in Ks translates into a bigger dip in overall score. I appreciate the sentiment, but I think that the debuff that we currently have is good enough to keep things from getting too farm-happy for everyone.
Why are you talking about pp's if you're playing casually ? The pp system - as half-arsed as it is - is a competitive element in the game. If you're playing casually nothing prevents you from playing autoconverts for fun. By the way, we are talking about unranking the autoconverts so they don't give any pp at all, not straight out remove them.Omio9999 wrote:
I only really started getting a smudge more pp-happy in the past like... ...month or so, and even then, I just want to try to keep over 100K - not an overly hard goal. Removing "autoconverts" removes a lot of viable maps, and you may as well kiss 99.9% of the song list goodbye with that kind of mentality.osu! is about fun, and osu!mania shouldn't be much different, and singling things out isn't entirely fun.
Following what I said previously, you can only apply nK-mods to autoconverts. Mania-specific maps are not affected by those mods. (Not to say pretty much everyone farms on mania-specific maps since they usually give way more pp's).Omio9999 wrote:
rank _k scores separatelyHow about "no"? There's debuffs for altering the Ks, and the bigger difference in Ks translates into a bigger dip in overall score. I appreciate the sentiment, but I think that the debuff that we currently have is good enough to keep things from getting too farm-happy for everyone.
If your map list is mostly, if not entirely made out of autoconverts, then it's completely normal. They are usually far easier than mania-specific maps (or retardedly hard for a few of them). There is currently only one mania-specific ranked map rated over 7 stars which would Imperishable Night 2006, and a few maps over or around 6 stars (off the top of my head, Akasha, Intersect Thunderbolt, Shuffle Heaven, Zirkfied...). There are loads of 5 stars maps as well.Omio9999 wrote:
2) "amplify" the current star rating? I'm seeing literally NOTHING over 6 stars in my list, and I think that several maps are potentially of 7+ star status.
On the other hand, everyone receives the same incentive, so "zero out".Bobbias wrote:
One of the real flaws in the system is that it only uses your top scores in calculations. This incentivizes those players who are willing to sit there and spam a song until they get that fluke personal best. But at least that takes much more effort than just spamming out a bunch of low PP scores (which would happen if the weighting were removed with no other changes).
I sometimes get even 5% diffrence IN A SINGLE DAY, without any weird stuff going on. Also spamming is training, but it only trains your speed and you lose a lot of you accuracy in the process. I know that because I've experienced it myself (having lower 300g/300 ratios than 5 months ago on Utakata for example)kidlat020 wrote:
its not like there will be a 3% difference between the spam in a single day. And like it or not, spamming is practicing.
We were talking about spam playing the same song over and over, not anmitsu/spamming the keys.-Kamikaze- wrote:
I sometimes get even 5% diffrence IN A SINGLE DAY, without any weird stuff going on. Also spamming is training, but it only trains your speed and you lose a lot of you accuracy in the process. I know that because I've experienced it myself (having lower 300g/300 ratios than 5 months ago on Utakata for example)kidlat020 wrote:
its not like there will be a 3% difference between the spam in a single day. And like it or not, spamming is practicing.
I've had random runs where I get like 5% better acc later the same day too.that only means that's your real play.
This is exactly what I was talking about. Random lucky scores happen. I've had scores that took 9 months before I could beat them because of that. If you spam play songs, you have an advantage because you can play each song until you get a lucky score, then more of your top scores are likely to be lucky scores.-Kamikaze- wrote:
I don't get'cha, most of my top pp scores are pure luck with spamming and I can't get remotely close to beating them (with exception of Utakata, but I've played it like 100 times)
I've had scores that took 9 months before I could beat them because of that.you already improved.
To be honest, if it wasn't for kind-of broken o!m mechanics and my attitude of clearing hard stuff>getting good accuracy, it would probably be easier for me to do so. Still, lucky scores happen and it's not easy to beat them.Tidek wrote:
I can beat every my old spam/not spam score (around 3months) every try, learn to play instead of spam lol.
Not everyone learns at the same pace. I've been playing for over a decade, and there are plenty of players with far less time who are far better than me. So just because you can beat your old scores in some amount of time doesn't mean anything for anyone else.Tidek wrote:
I can beat every my old spam/not spam score (around 3months) every try, learn to play instead of spam lol.