Case in point, look at my top PP earning score:
I'm gonna miss those points.
I'm gonna miss those points.
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Performance Points feedback and suggestions (osu!mania)
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Tidek wrote:
Does SV/BPM changes affect pp?
Its impossible to change scrolling speed while playing now, but as I remember It was possible to do while pausing a game (so, we have pretty high scores on "bpm jumpy" maps, now its pretty hard to get high acc on maps like this http://osu.ppy.sh/s/107565 because of scrolling speed).
Bumping this and 1 more question, does DT in future will affect PP? Because atm its pretty useless mod to use because you are not getting any bonus for map difficulty...
Was already implemented, but then removed. And tbh I don't like the fact of playing w/ mods to get more points.Tidek wrote:
Tidek wrote:
Does SV/BPM changes affect pp?
Its impossible to change scrolling speed while playing now, but as I remember It was possible to do while pausing a game (so, we have pretty high scores on "bpm jumpy" maps, now its pretty hard to get high acc on maps like this http://osu.ppy.sh/s/107565 because of scrolling speed).
Bumping this and 1 more question, does DT in future will affect PP? Because atm its pretty useless mod to use because you are not getting any bonus for map difficulty...
It would be okay if DT would have it's own scoreboard, right now it's pointless because pepole who were going for #1's can't get pp from DT plays even if they can FC with it, also we didn't really get any response about EZ mod and I don't see changes in mod key weighting, is this thread already abandoned? D:
There haven't been updates to the pp system for any of the modes in a while, so don't worry - Tom is not specifically ignoring this thread or anything. I'm assuming he's busy with personal stuff; just give it some time and eventually updates will happen.-Kamikaze- wrote:
also we didn't really get any response about EZ mod and I don't see changes in mod key weighting, is this thread already abandoned? D:
I just lost 1 pp by beating my best score on a map. My accuracy went down, so maybe it's that. If it is, then scoring needs to be looked at. One or the other of pp and scoring needs to be fixed so that this situation doesn't happen.
It's already been determined that score alone is not an accurate measure of performance and that your best score may not mean your best performance.mathl33t wrote:
I just lost 1 pp by beating my best score on a map. My accuracy went down, so maybe it's that. If it is, then scoring needs to be looked at. One or the other of pp and scoring needs to be fixed so that this situation doesn't happen.
However, I believe that fixing that issue would require either a scoreboard wipe (of over 6 years of scores, since I'm pretty sure the issue applies to all modes) or storing two scores on the server, which would drastically increase the space used.
It's a problem that we may have no choice but to deal with.
Funny thing that I've beaten my Utakata, Ai no Mahoroba [LV.28] S (95,3%, 800k pts) with an A (94,92%, 821k) and it went from 230pp worth to 237pp. I believe acc has nothing to do with it, it's just weighted by score.Meseki wrote:
It's already been determined that score alone is not an accurate measure of performance and that your best score may not mean your best performance.mathl33t wrote:
I just lost 1 pp by beating my best score on a map. My accuracy went down, so maybe it's that. If it is, then scoring needs to be looked at. One or the other of pp and scoring needs to be fixed so that this situation doesn't happen.
However, I believe that fixing that issue would require either a scoreboard wipe (of over 6 years of scores, since I'm pretty sure the issue applies to all modes) or storing two scores on the server, which would drastically increase the space used.
It's a problem that we may have no choice but to deal with.
IIRC Tom said acc DOES have to do with it, but it's far more negligible than actual score.
Topic Starter
That's true.PyaKura wrote:
IIRC Tom said acc DOES have to do with it, but it's far more negligible than actual score.
Are we still figuring out a way to fix the EZ mod=Full pp problem?
PS: Sorry for ratting you out like this Blocko ;-; But you're the only example I have
PS: Sorry for ratting you out like this Blocko ;-; But you're the only example I have
^that lolol
I just beat my highest EZ score in Zirkfied with HT by quite a wide margin and went from A to S. The result was losing 16 pp...
Comparison:
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/1692819
Comparison:
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/1692819
You still got a crap ton of pp for a halftime mod o_ozKskita wrote:
I just beat my highest EZ score in Zirkfied with HT by quite a wide margin and went from A to S. The result was losing 16 pp...
261 pp for a Zirkfied HT clear on extra!
So we got HT giving almost full pp, EZ giving full pp, and NF giving the least only ._.
EDIT: I did some looking around, and I guess all those clears with EZ or HT are the result of I'd say a 1/3 deduction. 1/3 doesn't seem like enough even. Any player can mash the hardest part of a song with EZ, even the best if they want! I think the pp for Easy mods should be reduced by 2/3-7/8, but that's just me.
Should review and change the number of stars (or difficulty) of maps because it is not very consistent to say ...
A 2 star beatmap can be much more difficult than other 2.5 or 3 star ...
A 2 star beatmap can be much more difficult than other 2.5 or 3 star ...
Well that's to be expected with an algorithm without any pattern recongnition
This is why I thought we should have a MAT (Mania appreciation team) or something like that. A computer can't compute the difficulty of a mania map like it can for any other game mode difficulty since mania hasn't been around long on osu!. The minds of 20 players more or less if needed can come up with a better solution of difficulty rating. The only problem with starting a team like that is finding a group of well balanced people. I have a few on my mind who could possibly do something like this, but only a few and not knowing if they'd be willing at first.Drace wrote:
Well that's to be expected with an algorithm without any pattern recongnition
"You" were not the one who thought of it, watch your wording. It was first brought up by Envi and me on page 7.
Considering how we can't even find BATs, a diff grading team might actually not be the best idea. Well for now atleast.
Considering how we can't even find BATs, a diff grading team might actually not be the best idea. Well for now atleast.
The reason I said "I" was because Tom brought up the topic again to me after a suggestion to peppy I gave weeks before the chat feud. (That was when the whole DT PP giving too much feud was happening.)Drace wrote:
"You" were not the one who thought of it, watch your wording. It was first brought up by Envi and me on page 7.
Considering how we can't even find BATs, a diff grading team might actually not be the best idea. Well for now atleast.
2014-03-09 12:02 October Scream: There is a whole contriversy in #osumania due to your pp system and dt
2014-03-09 12:02 October Scream: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/1403048
2014-03-09 15:55 Tom94: did you take any steps towards a mania difficulty rating team, by the way?
2014-03-09 15:56 October Scream: I've conversed with a few about it, but they usually forget I was talking with them or they're rarely on.
2014-03-09 15:57 Tom94: aww. it would have been really nice to have some big feedback group there
2014-03-09 15:57 October Scream: I would talk with ideu-, Entozer, _S U W A K O_, and MoTeSolo about 7k. And Staiain would be a good 4k reviewer
2014-03-09 15:57 October Scream: Other keys I haven't searched though
2014-03-09 15:58 Tom94: there would have to be multiple representatives for each keymode, though. can't just have a single person / nobody :/
2014-03-09 15:58 Tom94: oh well, gotta deal with what's in the thread so far
2014-03-09 15:58 October Scream: I know. I forgot to mention Gon since he's a good 4k player
2014-03-09 15:58 October Scream: And ok
There's part of the chatlog, Drace. The rest after that was personal problems rather finding a solution to current community problems.
2014-03-09 12:02 October Scream: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/1403048
2014-03-09 15:55 Tom94: did you take any steps towards a mania difficulty rating team, by the way?
2014-03-09 15:56 October Scream: I've conversed with a few about it, but they usually forget I was talking with them or they're rarely on.
2014-03-09 15:57 Tom94: aww. it would have been really nice to have some big feedback group there
2014-03-09 15:57 October Scream: I would talk with ideu-, Entozer, _S U W A K O_, and MoTeSolo about 7k. And Staiain would be a good 4k reviewer
2014-03-09 15:57 October Scream: Other keys I haven't searched though
2014-03-09 15:58 Tom94: there would have to be multiple representatives for each keymode, though. can't just have a single person / nobody :/
2014-03-09 15:58 Tom94: oh well, gotta deal with what's in the thread so far
2014-03-09 15:58 October Scream: I know. I forgot to mention Gon since he's a good 4k player
2014-03-09 15:58 October Scream: And ok
There's part of the chatlog, Drace. The rest after that was personal problems rather finding a solution to current community problems.
HAHAHAHA XD17VA wrote:
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/370840
native faith 1K master? - why 1K
Actually I think acquiring a MAT would be much less difficult to do than finding BATs, since what you have to do for your is simply playtesting, wow.
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/92190 <= 7.11, passed by a lot of people, some being very close to 99%
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/179779 + p/3160605 <= 7.13, having played it I am sure Staiain will have a very hard time passing it.
Why ?
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/179779 + p/3160605 <= 7.13, having played it I am sure Staiain will have a very hard time passing it.
Why ?
ACs' SR may very well be broken. You're also comparing an extreme 7K mania spec with a (extreme ?) 4K AC here..._Gezo_ wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/92190 <= 7.11, passed by a lot of people, some being very close to 99%
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/179779 + p/3160605 <= 7.13, having played it I am sure Staiain will have a very hard time passing it.
Why ?
I do, but don't you see the keycount greatly influences the SR of mania mapsets.
Some middle-hard converts which are about 2.5 apparently are higher rated than hard 4K charts, which is unfair.
Also download the map provided in the post I've linked; you will see what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a chart which has 510 1/4 patterns, 255 1/4 jackhammers, and what makes this 4K complete hell.
Some middle-hard converts which are about 2.5 apparently are higher rated than hard 4K charts, which is unfair.
Also download the map provided in the post I've linked; you will see what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a chart which has 510 1/4 patterns, 255 1/4 jackhammers, and what makes this 4K complete hell.
my bad forgive me senpia
Pya being Pya, move along citizensPyaKura wrote:
senpia
BSHFT BADT GMBH
SM_Bluefusion wrote:
I think some lower ranked players lost (quite) some PP or am I wrong?
Did something change?
I believe EZ and HT got heavily, heavily nerfed so you can't just spam a song too hard for you on EZ/HT and still get heaps of pp.
Or they could have stopped being considered for pp entirely. My EZ pass with Shuffle Heaven completely disappeared ._.Tornspirit wrote:
SM_Bluefusion wrote:
I think some lower ranked players lost (quite) some PP or am I wrong?
Did something change?
I believe EZ and HT got heavily, heavily nerfed so you can't just spam a song too hard for you on EZ/HT and still get heaps of pp.
And autoconverts still give over 300ppTornspirit wrote:
SM_Bluefusion wrote:
I think some lower ranked players lost (quite) some PP or am I wrong?
Did something change?
I believe EZ and HT got heavily, heavily nerfed so you can't just spam a song too hard for you on EZ/HT and still get heaps of pp.
And Utakata still gives easily over 250 pp
AND MEDIA'S ARE SILENT
NOTE: Not exactly sure whether I should report this problem in this thread or start a new one(haven't really been on the forums though I've been playing Osumania! for some time). I'm neither sure whether this problem has already been reported before and solved(haven't found a thread or somewhere on the internet about this problem....).
Also: This is my first post so please don't slaugther me for my inexperience and wrongdoings(as well as poor english)?
I have more or less a problem concerning Osumania! that are actually somewhat pretty irritating...
The problem is:
Slowed note falling speed, but higher note density.
The beatmap still properly follows the song in regards to when a note should be played, but the speed at which the notes falls are significantly slower than what it is supposed to be, and in the meanwhile the notes are far closer(which is why the beatmap still properly follows the song, but goes at a slower rate..).
I found that I could fix this problem on some maps by replaying a ranked map, that goes at the proper speed, which will in turn fix the wrong speed for me.
The problem is then that this does obviously not work for maps that are not ranked..(know that they are slower cuz my brother also have the beatmap and it goes significantly faster, though with the notes spread out some more...)
Also: This is my first post so please don't slaugther me for my inexperience and wrongdoings(as well as poor english)?
I have more or less a problem concerning Osumania! that are actually somewhat pretty irritating...
The problem is:
Slowed note falling speed, but higher note density.
The beatmap still properly follows the song in regards to when a note should be played, but the speed at which the notes falls are significantly slower than what it is supposed to be, and in the meanwhile the notes are far closer(which is why the beatmap still properly follows the song, but goes at a slower rate..).
I found that I could fix this problem on some maps by replaying a ranked map, that goes at the proper speed, which will in turn fix the wrong speed for me.
The problem is then that this does obviously not work for maps that are not ranked..(know that they are slower cuz my brother also have the beatmap and it goes significantly faster, though with the notes spread out some more...)
you need to adjust speed through F3 or F4 in-game or ctrl + or - before starting the song. It's no bug, it's intended.Ulqux wrote:
NOTE: Not exactly sure whether I should report this problem in this thread or start a new one(haven't really been on the forums though I've been playing Osumania! for some time). I'm neither sure whether this problem has already been reported before and solved(haven't found a thread or somewhere on the internet about this problem....).
Also: This is my first post so please don't slaugther me for my inexperience and wrongdoings(as well as poor english)?
I have more or less a problem concerning Osumania! that are actually somewhat pretty irritating...
The problem is:
Slowed note falling speed, but higher note density.
The beatmap still properly follows the song in regards to when a note should be played, but the speed at which the notes falls are significantly slower than what it is supposed to be, and in the meanwhile the notes are far closer(which is why the beatmap still properly follows the song, but goes at a slower rate..).
I found that I could fix this problem on some maps by replaying a ranked map, that goes at the proper speed, which will in turn fix the wrong speed for me.
The problem is then that this does obviously not work for maps that are not ranked..(know that they are slower cuz my brother also have the beatmap and it goes significantly faster, though with the notes spread out some more...)
Oh is that so..
Never knew about.....
Looking it up again...
So it's the osumania note falling speed, that any1 can change in order to find what fits them the most?
It feels a bit strange as slower note falling speed makes songs so much easier to play compared to faster... but maybe it may be just because I'm still a novice Osumania player...
Never knew about.....
Looking it up again...
So it's the osumania note falling speed, that any1 can change in order to find what fits them the most?
It feels a bit strange as slower note falling speed makes songs so much easier to play compared to faster... but maybe it may be just because I'm still a novice Osumania player...
When you progress into harder songs it's actually easier to play at higher speeds as long as you can follow the notes since patterns gets more complex and density of notes gets tighter.Ulqux wrote:
Oh is that so..
Never knew about.....
Looking it up again...
So it's the osumania note falling speed, that any1 can change in order to find what fits them the most?
It feels a bit strange as slower note falling speed makes songs so much easier to play compared to faster... but maybe it may be just because I'm still a novice Osumania player...
and yes anyone can change it as they see fit.
I think there is a pretty bad problem in the formula. I mean... it takes into account the length of the song, so long songs give lots of pp even if they aren't that hard. And if I got it right it doesn't care about the avg./peak density of the song. I don't think it would be overwhelmingly difficult to improve this.
Actually long maps aren't necessarily giving heaps of pp; currently some of the more overrated maps, such as Koi Yomi Zakura, Utakata Ai no Mahoroba, Atropos, Poppin Shower are only around 2 minutes, and give more than they honestly should, while some long songs definitely are underrated such as fortissimo and workaholic. Larger problems are that low level 7k gives a hell of a lot less than low level 4k, vice versa for higher levels, and songs with heavy LN being underrated compared to songs with heaps of chords.Allium97 wrote:
I think there is a pretty bad problem in the formula. I mean... it takes into account the length of the song, so long songs give lots of pp even if they aren't that hard. And if I got it right it doesn't care about the avg./peak density of the song. I don't think it would be overwhelmingly difficult to improve this.
Unfortunately, trying to create a mathematical model of difficulty for mania is not exactly easy. Gotta say, I'm impressed with tom's work so far, even if it has plenty of imperfections.
If you're not going to do anything with our suggestions maybe just close the topic and unsticky it?