Map popularity and score rank achieved aren't factors in the current pp system anymore (they were factors in ppv1 only).Noobrage wrote:
1. My english sucks/ enough to understand me
2. I haven't read much in this thread
I actually hate the rankingsystem we got. It shows like 0% improvment. The rankingsystem feels atm like = get a decent rank on a popular song for much PP.
But i dont want to play the popular maps only just to improve my ranking beside there arent even many maps that give you a bunch of PP for a decent rank.
I did climb about 9k places on different maps together today and i've earned about 20 PP for these 9k places.
Play Waterhorizon get Rank 2k and gain 329804723874 PP
I mean guys here is obviously something wrong....
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Performance Points feedback and suggestions (osu!mania)
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That actually didnt explain why these maps give SO MUCH more PP.
They are mostly (NOT always) harder, but that aint a reason that they should give *10 as much points...
They are mostly (NOT always) harder, but that aint a reason that they should give *10 as much points...
maps are popular because they give a lot of PP
not the other way around orz
not the other way around orz
After checking out Logger Pro to try and find a correlation between score/1million and PP awarded (for Aiae SHD) I couldn't find an equation, although it appears to be some sort of exponential with a y-intercept of 500,000 and an exponent of less than one.
Lol I personally would love it if the scores could automatically include how many performance points are awarded for a ranked score. It would likely give people a good indicator/inclination to play maps at or slightly above their level.
Lol I personally would love it if the scores could automatically include how many performance points are awarded for a ranked score. It would likely give people a good indicator/inclination to play maps at or slightly above their level.
lol there is no direct link between score and pp awarded
actually your pp is directly related to the score and stars on a map and nothing elsePyaKura wrote:
lol there is no direct link between score and pp awarded
yeah
I know I thought he meant a fixed amount of pp gained from score only...
that would be incredibly silly
farm all [Easy] autoconverts, become top master
just like ppv1!
farm all [Easy] autoconverts, become top master
just like ppv1!
The accuracy percentage also influences the pp gained a bit, but the influence of it is decreased when the star difficulty of the map increases (so, at some point, the influence of it is so small score is the only things that matters).Aqo wrote:
actually your pp is directly related to the score and stars on a map and nothing elsePyaKura wrote:
lol there is no direct link between score and pp awarded
yeah
I'm sort of new to mania (been playing for 40 some days, have about 2000 pp) and this is my first post, but I really quickly noticed that the ranking system for mania needed to be changed somehow. The thing that bugged me the most is that 4k-8k are weighted the same, but 4k is much easier, so in my case like many others, all of my top scores for pp are from 4k songs. I could do really good in my standards on a 7k song, but not get any pp for it because I did a little better on the 4k songs, even though they are easier. For auto-converts, most of them get low difficulty ratings anyways, and you can easily get more pp from mania charts than you could from auto-converts. IMO, I wouldn't take auto-converts out from giving you pp, because if you're good at mania, you will get more pp from the mania songs anyways. That's just my opinion though, and I don't really know how far you can go, farming standard songs. If there were more ranked mania charts than there are currently available though, I would probably be more for disabling pp for auto-converts. There are also some songs that are considered way too high in difficulty (i.e. Utakata) that give you way too many pp.
4K is not necessarily easier than 7K except on an extremely high-level of play because 7K can be more dense than 4K, but for most players 4K focuses on speed, density and stamina whereas 7 and 8K is more about reading difficult patterns. However 4K gives way too much pp for low and mid-level play and not enough for high-level play. Higher key amounts suffer the opposite problem. That's why many players around 0 to 3000~ pp have a 4K song as their top perf whereas the other top players usually have 7K charts as top perfs. (Well there is AiAe but it IS underrated)
4K will feel overrated if your speed is better than your reading
7K will feel overrated if your reading is better than your speed
Just like in standard, everyone complains that whatever they're good at is overrated. People who can stream fast say that stream maps give too much pp, people who can aim well say jump maps give too much etc..
7K will feel overrated if your reading is better than your speed
Just like in standard, everyone complains that whatever they're good at is overrated. People who can stream fast say that stream maps give too much pp, people who can aim well say jump maps give too much etc..
I meant it as SR underrate 4K too much in comparison to 7 and 8K. I'm confident in saying that AiAe is equal if not harder than, say, IN2K6.
I have a quick question about ranking criteria. What are the limits as to the upper end of difficulty for osu!mania maps? I know it’s very difficult to mod properly, but is there a certain star rating that isn’t even rankable even the map is well mapped to a song that fits the genre necessary to create a crazy challenging beatmap?
It would be super cool to see people get over a thousand performance points for a truly difficult song, like Act 2 Liberation 5k CC
It would be super cool to see people get over a thousand performance points for a truly difficult song, like Act 2 Liberation 5k CC
It depends on how it is considered overmapped or not, if you manage to map something that is really hard that is well mapped and still not called 'overmapped', then you're good to go.Tristan97 wrote:
I have a quick question about ranking criteria. What are the limits as to the upper end of difficulty for osu!mania maps? I know it’s very difficult to mod properly, but is there a certain star rating that isn’t even rankable even the map is well mapped to a song that fits the genre necessary to create a crazy challenging beatmap?
It would be super cool to see people get over a thousand performance points for a truly difficult song, like Act 2 Liberation 5k CC
sadly this does not hold true for standardcaiorandom wrote:
It depends on how it is considered overmapped or not, if you manage to map something that is really hard that is well mapped and still not called 'overmapped', then you're good to go.Tristan97 wrote:
I have a quick question about ranking criteria. What are the limits as to the upper end of difficulty for osu!mania maps? I know it’s very difficult to mod properly, but is there a certain star rating that isn’t even rankable even the map is well mapped to a song that fits the genre necessary to create a crazy challenging beatmap?
It would be super cool to see people get over a thousand performance points for a truly difficult song, like Act 2 Liberation 5k CC
The problem we've been having is that most mappers capable of mapping that difficulty properly don't bother making something rankable.
There's not very many songs that can allow for something crazy to map (at least in mania). They do exist though, but good luck finding them lolBobbias wrote:
The problem we've been having is that most mappers capable of mapping that difficulty properly don't bother making something rankable.
pretty sure a lot of BMS stuff technically allows crazy stuff to be mapped, even without looking at how original charts are done. Some "epic musics" (heavy orchestral stuff, such as two steps from hell tracks) can make pretty damn awesome LN charts as well.
Yes, and I'm all for in people to go for it.
If I can get to that point, I'd like to be able to do such, as I love intense orchestral music.
It's hard to find songs of the right genre, but seriously, I'm pretty sure even the Super Mario Galaxy soundtrack has potential SHD material.
If I can get to that point, I'd like to be able to do such, as I love intense orchestral music.
It's hard to find songs of the right genre, but seriously, I'm pretty sure even the Super Mario Galaxy soundtrack has potential SHD material.
I have a new idea for this
Instead of score, make it maximum possible score
I know mania pp is not really about accuracy, but about score
However, difficulty reducing mods and lessK mods, do not only give less pp, due to them being these kinds of mod, but as they lower score, also give less pp in Score part
So, instead of it calculating with score/1.000.000, make it score/maximum possible score, for example score/390.000 (EZ+4K for example)
These mods give less pp in 2 ways, but IMO it should only be one
Instead of score, make it maximum possible score
I know mania pp is not really about accuracy, but about score
However, difficulty reducing mods and lessK mods, do not only give less pp, due to them being these kinds of mod, but as they lower score, also give less pp in Score part
So, instead of it calculating with score/1.000.000, make it score/maximum possible score, for example score/390.000 (EZ+4K for example)
These mods give less pp in 2 ways, but IMO it should only be one
don't bother, nobody is looking here
Well at least there have been 3 now 
tbh i like that idea baraatje
tbh i like that idea baraatje
*waves hand*
Kinda sad that Mania scoring is still broken 
I imporved one of my 4K maps from 99,8% acc to 100% and got 3 pp.
Then i improved a much harder map from ~60% to 80% and got -1 pp.
Lol
I imporved one of my 4K maps from 99,8% acc to 100% and got 3 pp.
Then i improved a much harder map from ~60% to 80% and got -1 pp.
Lol
my idea is that stream songs which only rely one one note for their streams opposed to chordstreams which involve lots of 2+ notes at once end up being harder at lower star ratings so a 3.5 star stream will be harder then a 4.2 star chordstream for example, this is something that needs to be fixed but then the issue i see is 4k being even more overated at early levels due to this, ill let you work this out since i hv no idea how to deal with this problem o.o
That was brought up and discussed 5 or 6 months ago and look at amount of stuff changed.laishiou wrote:
my idea is that stream songs which only rely one one note for their streams opposed to chordstreams which involve lots of 2+ notes at once end up being harder at lower star ratings so a 3.5 star stream will be harder then a 4.2 star chordstream for example, this is something that needs to be fixed but then the issue i see is 4k being even more overated at early levels due to this, ill let you work this out since i hv no idea how to deal with this problem o.o
I don't know why this thread still exists
Performance points don't fit in vsrg. It should be something like dan courses in lr2. It would be more precise and quite easy to implement
Even if you say that it's already too late to implement it and I can hardly imagine a different "ranking system" just for a single game mode (especially since o!m is only 2 years old) since osu!'s been around for quite a while now.
Doesn't matter how long o!m's been out, peppy wouldn't change it anyway. :/PyaKura wrote:
Even if you say that it's already too late to implement it and I can hardly imagine a different "ranking system" just for a single game mode (especially since o!m is only 2 years old) since osu!'s been around for quite a while now.
Honestly, PP isn't the worst way to rank players... Imagine how dumb ranks would be if they relied on "ranked score" instead of PP (oh wait, they did years ago, and it was awful).
Ranked score was better than pp, because it didn't pretend to be a proper ranking system. It was a motivation to play because it was going up no matter if you did well or badly, doing well just made it go up faster - unlike pp, which awards you points at first and then slows down, leaving players frustrated and demotivated. Why do we need a proper ranking system? Just a quick look at a few leaderboards tells you who's the best at the game. To fix lowdiff farming, ranked score could be scaled just like mania charts were.
If pp (or rank score, or any other value used for rank) went up noticeably whether or not you did well, then lowdiff farming wouldn't be avoided (unless the scaling from difficulty increases extremely fast with difficulty, for example, the easiest map in the game gives 1 point, a mid-tier map gives 10^35 points, and a top-tier map gives 10^45 points). The purpose of the decrease of pp gain rate from plays is limiting the amount of pp obtained from playing many maps of similar difficulty without increasing the difficulty over time. If the difficulty calculation of the pp system is accurate, then players will keep getting pp as long as they increase the difficulty (or performance) of the maps they play (because of that, a good difficulty calculator for osu!mania maps is very important for making the pp system better).Tear wrote:
Ranked score was better than pp, because it didn't pretend to be a proper ranking system. It was a motivation to play because it was going up no matter if you did well or badly, doing well just made it go up faster - unlike pp, which awards you points at first and then slows down, leaving players frustrated and demotivated. Why do we need a proper ranking system? Just a quick look at a few leaderboards tells you who's the best at the game. To fix lowdiff farming, ranked score could be scaled just like mania charts were.
Looking at beatmap leaderboards of hard maps can give you an idea of who are the best players in the game, but you can't use that method to know the skill ranking of players that aren't as good as those top players (a well designed pp system should be able to give a good idea of that).
There's one very simple change that would makes all modes of osu fun, addictive and still rewarding:
Disable pp weighting.
Let it accumulate as you play. Even if you didn't do your best, you still get a few points. Unlike score, pp goes up exponentially so lowdiff farming would be severely reduced.
"But I can just play all the easies in the game for #1!" And pros can play all the insanes for #1, what's your point?
Any attempt to make an objective skill rating is doomed to fail, so why not make the game fun instead? Note that pp without weighting is identical to DJ Points in LR2 and IIDX. Also note that my solution does not render Tom's work obsolete at all, pp as a measure of a score's worth is still used to reward skill and make you go up faster than playing easier stuff.
Disable pp weighting.
Let it accumulate as you play. Even if you didn't do your best, you still get a few points. Unlike score, pp goes up exponentially so lowdiff farming would be severely reduced.
"But I can just play all the easies in the game for #1!" And pros can play all the insanes for #1, what's your point?
Any attempt to make an objective skill rating is doomed to fail, so why not make the game fun instead? Note that pp without weighting is identical to DJ Points in LR2 and IIDX. Also note that my solution does not render Tom's work obsolete at all, pp as a measure of a score's worth is still used to reward skill and make you go up faster than playing easier stuff.
Tear, that's just plain wrong. You want everyone to play tons of autoconverts to get their score up? That's going back to ppv1, which as we know sucked dicks. Current pp system is okay-ish, if we'd get some attention and some fixes to formula, we'd have a realy good system. But oh,well.
Don't we all agree that autoconverts should be unranked, lol
Unrank autoconverts and bam, current system is 2 times better. Also, you should know by now that no one is going to change anything
As frustrating as it is, I actually like the weighting on PP. It ensures that you don't have inflation on PP as players play more and more songs, making the ranking system much more stable, which is a major requirement for any half-decent ranking system.
One of the real flaws in the system is that it only uses your top scores in calculations. This incentivizes those players who are willing to sit there and spam a song until they get that fluke personal best. But at least that takes much more effort than just spamming out a bunch of low PP scores (which would happen if the weighting were removed with no other changes).
One of the real flaws in the system is that it only uses your top scores in calculations. This incentivizes those players who are willing to sit there and spam a song until they get that fluke personal best. But at least that takes much more effort than just spamming out a bunch of low PP scores (which would happen if the weighting were removed with no other changes).
I actually think that current system is a good base onto something really awesome. Good and wasted base.
Can't say I disagree with that. At least I can say I tried.-Kamikaze- wrote:
I actually think that current system is a good base onto something really awesome. Good and wasted base.