That game has very weak gameplay, avoiding bullets is easy, the bullets on the hardest level are less frequent than touhou on easy - it's all just visual effects and enemies to shoot (I don't see music being applied to gameplay in any way there).JeMhUnTeR wrote:
can't we just base it on beathazard, but call it touhosu!? (although mapping it would be impossible :<)
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Touhosu! / Dodge the Beat
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This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +12,148
Not to be mean here, but I think you are missing the point of "rhythm game", which is doing something to the beat of the music. One thing that a lot of people here are missing is that we can't have a game that is danmaku where the bullets are simply spawned on beats. Sure, it would make a nice game (see beat hazard, the touhou modded levels, etc), but it can't be an osu! game mode. It lacks too many things that make a rhythm game a rhythm game. Things like Accuracy, Combos, and actually paying attention to the beat are crucial to any gamemode that will ever go in osu!. I don't want to speak for peppy here, but I honestly think that peppy won't even lift a finger towards making this game mode if it doesn't include the fundamentals of rhythm games.JhowM wrote:
Now you two are missing the point of "danmaku" which is: multiple bullets of multiple types moving at multiple speeds with multiple patterns, AT THE SAME TIME.
My idea for a rhythm game combines both games in a 50/50 split, where both games have equal representation, and the game feels like both games. Let me explain. Danmaku games are about dodging bullets and staying alive. Rhythm games are about performing actions to the music that is playing. My idea is about dodging bullets to the music. You still dodge bullets, and you still move to the rhythm. 50/50 split.
One thing that was not shown in the picture was other note types. The main point of them will be to limit certain movement lanes and make it so you have to find safe zones (sound familiar?) without being able to camp. Certain bullets will force you to move right instead of left or vice versa, and the lasers would temporarily limit the ability to access the lane you were in when it started charging. Accuracy will also emulate a sort of "graze" system, where if you do a note perfectly, you would get an extra bonus (kind of like the rainbow 300's in osumania being worth 320 base points instead of 300). On top of that, I was thinking of adding a "deathbombing" system, where you could prevent one combo break (receiving a 100 or 50 instead of a miss) by using a one-per-song bomb attack. The bomb could also be useful for clearing out a few beats worth of bullets if you need time to think. This is the touhou part of everything. The only thing missing is vertical movement and a "focus" feature.
Your system is fine; the only thing I'm afraid is lack of challenge so it doesn't end up getting boring.
Alright. Let's talk about difficulty. The first thing I would like to note is that bullets would generally land on the player at the same time a hitcircle would be clicked, and each hitcircle would equal one bullet to dodge. This is pretty good until we get into streams, where it would become TOO hard to read patterns while constantly moving every 16th note. If we can translate streams (but not short 3-5 note long streams) into another kind of bullet or pattern that gives a similar feel to it without being too difficult, we will be in good shape. Any suggestions are welcome on how we can do that are welcome, because I'm a bit stumped. I guess we could make it so it's just a steady stream of bullets that follows you with it changing direction every quarter or eighth note. Ideas are welcome.
I don't see how it would be dead-easy in harder translations. We bring up the approach rate and the more complex rhythms and bullet patterns that come with hard and insane maps will scale the difficulty themselves. Normal and Easy Difficulties will be easy, sure. We just limit some certain bullets from easy and we introduce them in normals if they get out of hand.
I don't see how it would be dead-easy in harder translations. We bring up the approach rate and the more complex rhythms and bullet patterns that come with hard and insane maps will scale the difficulty themselves. Normal and Easy Difficulties will be easy, sure. We just limit some certain bullets from easy and we introduce them in normals if they get out of hand.
About implementing this like what they did in Touhou Rhythm Carnival...
I have played this game, and my least favourite mini-game was VS. Remilia.
It was awkward to play. And it didn't feel like Touhou. It felt like a more advanced version of Taiko or CtB, I'm not sure.
I really liked idea where bullets pop up in beat with the music. That way you have a music-oriented bullet hell game! Feels more like what it should be.
But then again. This is an opinion on the internet! I doubt anyone would care too much!
I have played this game, and my least favourite mini-game was VS. Remilia.
It was awkward to play. And it didn't feel like Touhou. It felt like a more advanced version of Taiko or CtB, I'm not sure.
I really liked idea where bullets pop up in beat with the music. That way you have a music-oriented bullet hell game! Feels more like what it should be.
But then again. This is an opinion on the internet! I doubt anyone would care too much!
Dolphin, it would make a great music-oriented danmaku game, but it wouldn't come close to a rhythm game (ie what we are trying to make). I understand that there are some issues with the rhythm heaven thing. We are not trying to emulate it 100%. We are just using it as a base, and solving the problems that come up.
1. If the pattern is fixed with no variations at all, then it fails. ( the NOT DANMAKU rule )
2. If the rhythm is not required to play the game, then it fails. ( the NOT RHYTHM rule )
Therefore,
1. We need a bunch of bullets with different properties.
2. We need most dodges to be rhythmic.
That's when I realize that there is absolutely no way to do traditional Touhou in osu!.
For Ouendan to osu!standard, it's easy, because it was a rhythm game.
For taiko(tatsujin) to taiko(osu!), it's easy, because it was a rhythm game.
(I don't want to talk about CTB, I never understand it)
For BMS-type to mania, it's easy, because it was a rhythm game.
For Touhou though, we need to tweak it somehow, while keeping the danmaku stuff.
So, what about we just cross the 2 together?
Imagine this, there are danmaku, and hit circles, in the same screen.
You have to evade the danmaku, then move to the hit circles, then hit the C key to earn points.
Yeah, this sounds insane, but what about making the hitcircles, like, 35% as big as the screen?
(I think the only playable difficulties are the 3 star Easy ones, but I still think this might me a good starting point)
(And of course, the hyperdash from CTB might need to appear too)
2. If the rhythm is not required to play the game, then it fails. ( the NOT RHYTHM rule )
Therefore,
1. We need a bunch of bullets with different properties.
2. We need most dodges to be rhythmic.
That's when I realize that there is absolutely no way to do traditional Touhou in osu!.
For Ouendan to osu!standard, it's easy, because it was a rhythm game.
For taiko(tatsujin) to taiko(osu!), it's easy, because it was a rhythm game.
(I don't want to talk about CTB, I never understand it)
For BMS-type to mania, it's easy, because it was a rhythm game.
For Touhou though, we need to tweak it somehow, while keeping the danmaku stuff.
So, what about we just cross the 2 together?
Imagine this, there are danmaku, and hit circles, in the same screen.
You have to evade the danmaku, then move to the hit circles, then hit the C key to earn points.
Yeah, this sounds insane, but what about making the hitcircles, like, 35% as big as the screen?
(I think the only playable difficulties are the 3 star Easy ones, but I still think this might me a good starting point)
(And of course, the hyperdash from CTB might need to appear too)
SPOILER
(I assumed the new "approach circles" approach from the inside and expand until it hit the big circle.)
I actually have another idea, but it was too similar to osu standard so I haven't mentioned it so far. Might as well throw it out here.
Fujiwara no Moukou has an "exploding bullet" attack. Fast forward to 10:56 to see the attack.
In the game, moukou unleashes some magical circles that spawns an exploding bullet after a few second. I was thinking of tweaking that into a usable adaptation for osu standard.
So instead of bullet spawn directly inside the magic circles, we can make the magic circle the ONLY safe place when that particular trap explodes. The magic circle can appear with the same timing like in HD mod, then explode when it's time to hit the beat in osu standard. The "shrapnel" should disappear quicker than in the game obviously or the character will suffer damage in a jumpy map.
This idea was scrapped because it's almost like a skin for osu standard, not a separate game mode. The advantage of course is that it'll be easy to adapt standard map for touhosu mode.
I'll just leave it here, maybe this can help someone to come up with a better idea.
@sakuya
Actually I thought about doing the complete opposite to what I posted above too. Making the character earn points by "eating" more bullets. Glad you mentioned yours.
Fujiwara no Moukou has an "exploding bullet" attack. Fast forward to 10:56 to see the attack.
In the game, moukou unleashes some magical circles that spawns an exploding bullet after a few second. I was thinking of tweaking that into a usable adaptation for osu standard.
So instead of bullet spawn directly inside the magic circles, we can make the magic circle the ONLY safe place when that particular trap explodes. The magic circle can appear with the same timing like in HD mod, then explode when it's time to hit the beat in osu standard. The "shrapnel" should disappear quicker than in the game obviously or the character will suffer damage in a jumpy map.
This idea was scrapped because it's almost like a skin for osu standard, not a separate game mode. The advantage of course is that it'll be easy to adapt standard map for touhosu mode.
I'll just leave it here, maybe this can help someone to come up with a better idea.
@sakuya
Actually I thought about doing the complete opposite to what I posted above too. Making the character earn points by "eating" more bullets. Glad you mentioned yours.
This is something Tasha quickly scrapped together, so it's all made by him. It's extremely simple and far from a functional game, thus the pre-prototype title. He's actively developing and trying to create this osu! based bulletstorm game, so let's hope for the best.
Unreadable mess, nowhere near what it should look like. I just quickly mapped this on top of djpop's diff to see how it would look. Nice visualization though.
You will hear some osu! notification sounds in this video, so don't get paranoid while watching this.
Wow that's a lot of bullets xDtheowest wrote:
This is something Tasha quickly scrapped together, so it's all made by him. It's extremely simple and far from being a functional game, thus the pre-prototype title. He's actively developing and trying to create this osu! based bulletstorm game, so let's hope for the best.
Unreadable mess, nowhere near what it should look like. I just quickly mapped this on top of djpop's diff to see how it would look. Nice visualization though.
You will hear some osu! notification sounds in this video, so don't get paranoid while watching this.
Nice visualisation. Imagine the "Magical Circle" (refer to my post on previous page) moves around the map like autoplay and the hero has to hide in it all the time...
Can add a Grace bonus for those who dares to venture outside of the Magical Circle lol
Primula_old
I'd prefer something a bit more like Osu! where by interacting with beats causes objects to sprout of which you then dodge.
Eg. Clicking a hitcircle would cause mini circles which sprout from it after a couple seconds, then you go to the next hitcircle and continue on causing a build up of mini circles of which you dodge.
All current modes follow the same sort of logic where your actions follow a beat, but the current idea of what people have with Touhosu (pattern of objects spawn on beat of which you then dodge) does not follow this same logic, because you're dodging a beat which was in the past.
Eg. Clicking a hitcircle would cause mini circles which sprout from it after a couple seconds, then you go to the next hitcircle and continue on causing a build up of mini circles of which you dodge.
All current modes follow the same sort of logic where your actions follow a beat, but the current idea of what people have with Touhosu (pattern of objects spawn on beat of which you then dodge) does not follow this same logic, because you're dodging a beat which was in the past.
I think Mithost Point of view is one of the most correct ones i've seen so far... Obviously we have to add other kind of bullets and lasers etc, but I think touhosu! should be a RHYTHM BASED Game first of all...
And the concept that Mithost is showing is the closest to it i've seen so far in 3 pages of comments...
And the concept that Mithost is showing is the closest to it i've seen so far in 3 pages of comments...
The video is very close to how I imagine the gamemode to be like. Placed notes will explode into balls that the player must dodge with the cursor. I think drain should be constantly refilling with each passed object. Each time you touch a ball it will remove a chunk of HP. Hit too many balls and you will surely fail.
Surviving each object adds a combo and getting hit will either break your combo or give you less points depending on how much of the ball touches your cursor. A lenient combo break system would increase the variety of scores in the leaderboard and make mod usage more approachable. Your accuracy will be based on the number of times you got hit and how badly those hits were determined. If you make it to the end of the song without getting hit you get a perfect score.
Mods will provide an extra degree of challenge to those who request it. The standard mods would fit very nicely into the gameplay. Hidden would make the balls disappear and the player would have to dodge them without seeing them. Doubletime and flashlight would be exactly the same. Hardrock could make the balls larger or something or the balls could move faster from the center of the note.
The main issue is balancing the scoring system. Adding mods would make this gamemode exceptionally more difficult. It would be very hard to perform well with mods applied. Mods shouldn't make playing the game impossible. It wouldn't be worth the extra bonus.
Surviving each object adds a combo and getting hit will either break your combo or give you less points depending on how much of the ball touches your cursor. A lenient combo break system would increase the variety of scores in the leaderboard and make mod usage more approachable. Your accuracy will be based on the number of times you got hit and how badly those hits were determined. If you make it to the end of the song without getting hit you get a perfect score.
Mods will provide an extra degree of challenge to those who request it. The standard mods would fit very nicely into the gameplay. Hidden would make the balls disappear and the player would have to dodge them without seeing them. Doubletime and flashlight would be exactly the same. Hardrock could make the balls larger or something or the balls could move faster from the center of the note.
The main issue is balancing the scoring system. Adding mods would make this gamemode exceptionally more difficult. It would be very hard to perform well with mods applied. Mods shouldn't make playing the game impossible. It wouldn't be worth the extra bonus.
again, why mouse?TheVileOne wrote:
cursor
dodging stuff is not good with mouse (think about catching fruits with relax in CtB
I guess keyboard would work, but you wont get nearly the freedom of movement as if you moved the character like a pointer on a screen. Whichever is best for gameplay works for me.
+888
doding danmaku with mouse is much easier than keyboard..
doding danmaku with mouse is much easier than keyboard..
which danmaku game you play with mouse ?w?w?w?w?[CSGA]Ar3sgice wrote:
+888
doding danmaku with mouse is much easier than keyboard..
Well there are games like Symphony that are danmaku-esk with cursor movement.JhowM wrote:
which danmaku game you play with mouse ?w?w?w?w?[CSGA]Ar3sgice wrote:
+888
doding danmaku with mouse is much easier than keyboard..
But keyboard controls with 4 directions (8 if you count left-up right-down etc) has much more solid gameplay and controls than mouse.
"Is this a Rhythm Game?" I think that is the only requirement for a potential gamemode in osu!. Sure, the bullets spawn to music, but the player would probably doing the opposite, slightly nudging themselves over every few milliseconds and only watching the aftermath of what appeared before them. Touhou causes ridiculous tunnel vision when playing, and the chance that players will even see what is going on 'rhythmically' above them is zero-to-none.TheVileOne wrote:
The video is very close to how I imagine the gamemode to be like. Placed notes will explode into balls that the player must dodge with the cursor. I think drain should be constantly refilling with each passed object. Each time you touch a ball it will remove a chunk of HP. Hit too many balls and you will surely fail.
Surviving each object adds a combo and getting hit will either break your combo or give you less points depending on how much of the ball touches your cursor. A lenient combo break system would increase the variety of scores in the leaderboard and make mod usage more approachable. Your accuracy will be based on the number of times you got hit and how badly those hits were determined. If you make it to the end of the song without getting hit you get a perfect score.
Mods will provide an extra degree of challenge to those who request it. The standard mods would fit very nicely into the gameplay. Hidden would make the balls disappear and the player would have to dodge them without seeing them. Doubletime and flashlight would be exactly the same. Hardrock could make the balls larger or something or the balls could move faster from the center of the note.
The main issue is balancing the scoring system. Adding mods would make this gamemode exceptionally more difficult. It would be very hard to perform well with mods applied. Mods shouldn't make playing the game impossible. It wouldn't be worth the extra bonus.
If you want an example of this, fullscreen tasha's video. Now get a piece of paper roughly the size of your monitor, and cut a circular hole in it with a coin or something. No matter how loud you turn up the music, no matter how many visualizations you have in the background, this is what the player will see when playing.
It wouldn't be a rhythm game. It would be a rhythm based game.This is not a major concern of mine. People don't play touhou because of the rhythm, and they would not play this game because of the rhythm.
Also I guess keyboard keys would work. It would be more authentic with Touhou.
Also I guess keyboard keys would work. It would be more authentic with Touhou.
This is what bothers me though. Tasha's video and the ideas being put around here are amazing super-cool ideas, but most of them don't fit in osu!'s structure at all. Nobody would be able to say "That's a rhythm based game!" if you turned off the BGM on this game mode. By using the hitbursts=bullet spread style, we have to throw out the only mechanics that hold osu!'s gamemodes together. BPM no longer means anything. Accuracy would be over-complicated at best to implement. Combos? Forget them. I'm not usually pessimistic, but this design is not a rhythm game, not even the slightest!
this kind of really hard to dodge.theowest wrote:
This is something Tasha quickly scrapped together, so it's all made by him. It's extremely simple and far from a functional game, thus the pre-prototype title. He's actively developing and trying to create this osu! based bulletstorm game, so let's hope for the best.
Unreadable mess, nowhere near what it should look like. I just quickly mapped this on top of djpop's diff to see how it would look. Nice visualization though.
You will hear some osu! notification sounds in this video, so don't get paranoid while watching this.
I don't care if it's related to the rhythm or not. If peppy adds it, it would be a unique flare to osu! and I can guarantee people would play it. Imagine how many new players would download osu! just because it has a Touhou-esque game in it. If you can translate the game nicely, it would be a big plus to osu! as a game.
You got a valid point. All I am hoping for really is a rhythm-oriented game mode that works kinda like Danmakufu.TheVileOne wrote:
I don't care if it's related to the rhythm or not. If peppy adds it, it would be a unique flare to osu! and I can guarantee people would play it. Imagine how many new players would download osu! just because it has a Touhou-esque game in it. If you can translate the game nicely, it would be a big plus to osu! as a game.
Also it would be nice if it got its own editor where you can adjust bullet-type, amount, direction etc. To keep complexity and variation.
An issue would be having Touhosu-specific maps, people would want to make these, but for these to be ranked we need to make a ranking criteria for it.
But nearly all Shmups are ridiculously difficult. So where do we limit the difficulty for Easy for instance? How hard should it be? How easy should it be?
We need to know this, and I think basing the diff-spread after Touhou would be a general bad idea, since the difficulty curve on Touhou is steep.
We also need to know what should be allowed and disallowed. If you're inexperienced and want to create an Insane difficulty by basing it of Touhou Lunatic, you might think that any pattern and bullet density/speed is allowed, but that's not quite true. There are always limitations.
I guess if you can't beat them, join them. I hope my idea still stands, but I'm going to move on to trying to get a rhythm fighting game made for osu! instead. For this idea however, one thing I would want to incorporate are small things that really mix the game and the song together, in the same way osu!'s menu and games like rhythm heaven do very well.
One thing I would like to see with the 'main idea' is a clear indication of BPM in the character. Just a simple movement like moving slightly side to side, have the visible hitbox/grazebox have a pulse effect sort of like the menu animation, just something. Wait... I have an idea with graze, just a small one.
Graze is usually a constant stream of bonus points you get for staying ridiculously close to a danmaku. To help with the rhythm aspect of the game, I just had the idea of making graze only active on the beats of a song, or reward more points for grazing during a beat and less during offbeats, creating more of a 'curve' than a steady stream of points.
If the changing size of danmaku's didn't affect the hitboxes or gameplay, I would suggest that they pulse to the BPM as well. I think they could still have animations if they were done right.
Last thing to note right now, has anyone made a pippi touhou sprite?
One thing I would like to see with the 'main idea' is a clear indication of BPM in the character. Just a simple movement like moving slightly side to side, have the visible hitbox/grazebox have a pulse effect sort of like the menu animation, just something. Wait... I have an idea with graze, just a small one.
Graze is usually a constant stream of bonus points you get for staying ridiculously close to a danmaku. To help with the rhythm aspect of the game, I just had the idea of making graze only active on the beats of a song, or reward more points for grazing during a beat and less during offbeats, creating more of a 'curve' than a steady stream of points.
If the changing size of danmaku's didn't affect the hitboxes or gameplay, I would suggest that they pulse to the BPM as well. I think they could still have animations if they were done right.
Last thing to note right now, has anyone made a pippi touhou sprite?
I just thought of a suggestion for the scoring system for Danmaku (I'm calling it that from now on, and I don't care what you gays call it.) and a few others below.
For every circle that spawns bullets from its origin in time, it would also spawn a point item that adds to the score when collected. These items will also appear at the end of the slider (not in-between or at the beginning). I'm not sure about how this would work for spinners though - maybe have it spawn at a random location after completion of the spinner?
Also note that these items should despawn after about two seconds (depending on OD?) as a challenge. Maybe more for spinners since they're random.
In the results, the final score should be = (Items Collected / Total Items) * 1,000,000.
And no, grazing bullets do nothing to your score.
Other suggestions:
For every circle that spawns bullets from its origin in time, it would also spawn a point item that adds to the score when collected. These items will also appear at the end of the slider (not in-between or at the beginning). I'm not sure about how this would work for spinners though - maybe have it spawn at a random location after completion of the spinner?
Also note that these items should despawn after about two seconds (depending on OD?) as a challenge. Maybe more for spinners since they're random.
In the results, the final score should be = (Items Collected / Total Items) * 1,000,000.
And no, grazing bullets do nothing to your score.
Other suggestions:
- BPM x Slider Velocity = Actual speed of bullets (but it should have a limit of sort so it doesn't result in an instant massacre)
- Player's speed = Like CTB, it should be fixed at a certain point
- Approach circles will appear as visible as possible in the background to indicate the spawning of bullets in that particular position
- When the song ends (or the last note of the beatmap), the game should only end once there are no remaining bullets on-screen and remaining point items are collected/despawned.
Starz0r wrote:
A better idea on how Touhosu! could work is this:
@Starz0r: ...You didn't read the entire topic before you posted that, didn't you?
On-topic and in addition to my previous post, maybe the number of lives would also affect the score aside from just point items.
So right now the formula is = ( (Items Collected / Total Items) * 700,000 ) * ( (Lives Left / Max Lives) * 300,000 )
...or at least something like that.
On-topic and in addition to my previous post, maybe the number of lives would also affect the score aside from just point items.
So right now the formula is = ( (Items Collected / Total Items) * 700,000 ) * ( (Lives Left / Max Lives) * 300,000 )
...or at least something like that.
It seems too easy to get max score without graze bonus.
support +1
yoshilove
support~ <3
Although it is very old,
There was such a thing.
There was a game to Danmaku the BMS. *Danmaku(Cartridge? Curtain of fire?)
※not Touhou, this is another game.
There is a place that is similar.
(but JP lung)
(An animation was not found in Youtube. )
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm130707
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~VG5M-OBT/otama.html
Although it is very old,
There was such a thing.
There was a game to Danmaku the BMS. *Danmaku(Cartridge? Curtain of fire?)
※not Touhou, this is another game.
There is a place that is similar.
(but JP lung)
(An animation was not found in Youtube. )
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm130707
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~VG5M-OBT/otama.html
I ain't ladyStarz0r wrote:
A better idea on how Touhosu! could work is this:
And no, you don't sound like a man who has ordered a pizza.
/me runs
I really think that the "Starz0r" example is a good idea .
But , well ... i think it should be fun if the player press a key to shoot the enemies in rhythm .
For example, the enemy always throw bullet in all the map according to the beatmap ; and the player do the same but only on a vertical line , but, few time the player must press a key to make a powerfull attack (indicated by something like ... color change)
I hope that you understand what I mean
( also , i don't read all pages of the topic, so ... tell me if something better is proposed )
.But , well ... i think it should be fun if the player press a key to shoot the enemies in rhythm .
For example, the enemy always throw bullet in all the map according to the beatmap ; and the player do the same but only on a vertical line , but, few time the player must press a key to make a powerfull attack (indicated by something like ... color change)
I hope that you understand what I mean
( also , i don't read all pages of the topic, so ... tell me if something better is proposed )
looks like peppy is slowly working on this