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Touhosu! / Dodge the Beat

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Topic Starter
Yasa
In a thread titled "Dodge the Beat" (which was locked by peppy due to immature posts) Peppy said the following.

I actually do see a point (in touhosu!) and it is on my personal list as a game mode I'd like to see in osu!. And yes, I'll make it work and work well :P.
(For the purposes of this thread I will assume peppy was not being sarcastic)

Although I trust if anyone could make such a mode work, that it would be peppy, I also feel it important that the community presents ideas for the implementation of such a mode in order to make the entire process not only easier for peppy (Coming up with ideas for something like this can't be too easy... can it?) but also to ensure the maximum enjoyment of the mode for the community...

Maybe I am just wasting my time typing this and this thread may be locked on sight for being a duplicate (More or less?) of "Dodge the Beat" but nevertheless, I think I might as well give it a shot.

*Ahem*

The only idea I can really think of to make the initial idea of a bullet hell rhythm game which is beatmap based work is where each beat is a set of bullets...

That is to say that on each beat (the sort which would be clicked on in standard osu!), some bullets are fired.

The origin of the bullets is decided by the x,y co-ordinates of the beat in standard osu. In order to prevent bullets from spawning on top of the player, the y plane could be compressed to half it's size and positioned on the top half of the screen and the player restricted to the lower half of the screen...

Combo's could contain one kind of bullet and the next combo contains a different kind and a different firing pattern... to use Touhou as an example, you could go from 40 snow bullets shaking down the screen to 7 orbs shooting in a straight line

sliders could basically have the ticks as smaller firing points (firing fewer bullets than a standard beat I guess, perhaps smaller too)

I can't really think of anything for spinners right now...

As far as rhythm goes hmmm, I guess that's where it gets a bit hard... it depends on if you feel the bullets getting shot in time to the music to be enough... something else could be thought up though...

for scoring, well, I think a graze system would be best, each bullet grazed is +1 combo and each hit resets score... bullets having a flat rate would be a good idea since there are multiple bullets coming from each beat it means people with more skill will get more points from each beat than someone of lesser skill...

oh, as far as the three difficulty things go...

Accuracy = hitbox size/bullets fired from a beat
HP Drain = lives...
Circle size = bullets fired from a beat/bullet size

*endahem*

Well eh, I am not sure if this thread is really something which should exist but I really have no idea else to contribute to the idea making process for such a mode...

Just to make sure that's clear, I'm not at all under the impression that these ideas are the only way it would work... they are just suggestions for how such a mode could successfully be made... perhaps if peppy does intend to make such a mode he could look at this thread and see some ideas which may help him come up with a final product which is better than it would otherwise be? :P

But yeah, It would be good to have similar suggestions/constructive criticism with regards to suggestions... in order to have a good pool of ideas from which peppy could perhaps pluck a good idea or two from :P

Just one final note: This thread should only be used to discuss how Touhosu! could be implemented and how it could work...

(I hope all that text makes sense to everyone, I'm not very confident in my sense making skills :P)

PS: Yes I used :P a lot... here, have another :P
peppy
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Nachy
Well this sounds kind of silly and complicated I guess, but I was thinking shooting to the rhythm of the map a target that is positioned based on the editing of the map for example, and bullets trying to hit you to prevent you from shooting the target at the right time etc.
I guess stacks, streams and jumps also come to play and can affect difficulty on shooting the targets, and maybe targets also need to be shot with the right bullet based on hitsounds, for example one key on the keyboard for ordinary beats, one for whistles/claps and I guess finishes are like bombs, and the bombs obtained on each mapset is based on the overall difficulty and how many finishes the map has. Spinners can be a massive bullet dodging part on the map.
Topic Starter
Yasa
I certainly wasn't thinking you'd completely mold together a mode from stuff in this thread :P

Anyway, as I see it, there are two ways to mix rhythm with the bullets...
first of all, making the bullets spawning at the time the beat would be clicked...
secondly, locking y position and having the bullet/set of bullets match your y position at the time the beat would be clicked...

Certainly, since the bullets will be made from an existing beatmap as opposed to a custom bullet pattern, it definitely needs to be considered how it will be made intricate and require a lot of skill to pass a map like... well anything DJpop made's hardest difficulty... without it being impossible (well DJpop's maps are impossible but you know what I mean :P)...

Hmmm, I've assumed a non-shooting run style of play, I guess having the player shooting or not having it would make a huge difference to gameplay...

NachoPiggy, I think it would most definitely be better to keep it as simple as is reasonable and such a sound based idea would perhaps be a bit hard when you are trying to dodge the kind of heavy bullets one expects in Bullet hell games

I think just plainly getting shot at and dodging, getting points through that somehow and the better you dodge the more points you get bla bla bla...
Pasonia
I was thinking of a reverse catch the beat where the beats and sliders generate certain patterns, and dodging them earns you points (with multipliers every, say, 30 notes+ticks)

Needless to say, the faster the song the faster the patterns (so it becomes a little more like speed dodging rather than the touhou type of bullet hell).
Daru
The say I see this is bullets getting shot from the top, where circle size affects bullet size (harder - larger), BPM affects bullet amount, HP drain affects the number of lives you have (or, for a damage system, how much HP the bullets take off of you), and Overall Difficulty affecting speed of the bullets. Where they are shot from is affected by the placement of the beat, and the pattern that gets shot will be based on the hitsounds being used. Sliders will be handled with constant fire coming from the slider path, similar to what would happen if, in Touhou, bullets were coming from the boss/midboss and that character stared moving. The bullets would reverse or change in pattern at every slidertick. Spinners would be "spinner" bullets, where bullets seem to appear in a spiral fashion around the boss. Combo will automatically be obtained when the bullets start moving (so they go with the beat), but you will only get points for dodging bullets and hitting the boss.

For variety's sake, I'd like each song to have a specific bullet pattern assigned to it, but randomly. Perhaps osu! can pick a bullet pattern for each type (slider, hit, spinner) of hit based on the number of characters in the name, or some other characteristic of the song that doesn't change, but is likely to assign the song with a different bullet set than the rest of the songs.

Also, bosses, the player character, and bullets should be skinnable. :3
Hanyuu
my idea:

the amount of bullets shot by enemy at once depending on overall difficulty level
enemy will shoot bullets all the time to the BPM
enemy appearing location and route made with sliders in editor (on the grid). end of slider enemy will leave if not defeated.
enemy moving speed, slider velocity
different enemy types with different hitsounds! +spinner for a special enemy that shoot bullets in a circle or something
if it is not 1 hit killed, the HP drain level can change the players HP ?
boss enemy at kiai time? or maybe not a boss but a bigger stronger one that shoot ALOT MORE
background animation im not sure.. maybe not changable but different levels to chose
more than one way of shooting for the player (chosing different weapons?)
higher combos will make the player stronger. (miss, a enemy will escape or the player is hit for combobreak

mods:

flashlight around enemys+player
hidden: projectiles will slowly become invisible
double time
jonathan_old
How about color-based shot types? For example, Green can be a wide double shot, Blue can be two shots in succession in time to the key signature, red can be a shotgun-style formation of 5, and yellow or orange can be a bomb shot you can't get 10 pixels within when it explodes.
Daru

jonathan wrote:

How about color-based shot types? For example, Green can be a wide double shot, Blue can be two shots in succession in time to the key signature, red can be a shotgun-style formation of 5, and yellow or orange can be a bomb shot you can't get 10 pixels within when it explodes.
The problem with that is maps don't use the same colors, and there are literally 255^3 possible colors to choose from. Also, users with different skins will see different types of shots for maps that use the skin's default color scheme.
Neo@lex

Daru wrote:

jonathan wrote:

How about color-based shot types? For example, Green can be a wide double shot, Blue can be two shots in succession in time to the key signature, red can be a shotgun-style formation of 5, and yellow or orange can be a bomb shot you can't get 10 pixels within when it explodes.
The problem with that is maps don't use the same colors, and there are literally 255^3 possible colors to choose from. Also, users with different skins will see different types of shots for maps that use the skin's default color scheme.
.osu files (and probably skins) define the colors at the beginning, so rather than for actual colors, it could just be color 1, color 2 ect.
jonathan_old
Actually, color 1 numbering seems great, and I just had a crazy idea for having different shot set types for each difficulty.
Cheery
Sounds good ^^.
I had trouble imagining Pippi as a player character though.. her special attack? o-o; haha, good luck~
ThePassingShadow
This is a reallly cool idea. I'll be keeping up with this thread.
Cornbread617
I think this would be pretty damn cool.
jockeytiyan

Cheery wrote:

Sounds good ^^.
I had trouble imagining Pippi as a player character though.. her special attack? o-o; haha, good luck~
Attack? If the player can attack, it should as well be only for points. However, seeing as it is, the proposal is really going for bullet dodging rather than a shooting game. So attacks would be unnecessary without any enemies to put in the first place, and without any purpose but just for points.
Daru
It occurs to me that Pippi will need a hat of some sort to be put into a Touhou-like game.
Cyclone
Layola_old
Thought of this when I read the title:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz10bka9Ly4

Synced so well. Would be awesome to have something like this o:!
Daru

Layola wrote:

Thought of this when I read the title:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz10bka9Ly4

Synced so well. Would be awesome to have something like this o:!
Looking at that, which is epic, by the way, I being to think that this could work not only as a mod or special mode of osu!, but also as a standalone game, simply with support of osu! beatmaps. I wouldn't mind "custom", touhou-only maps for this, like taiko has custom maps.
Gabi
Randy96

Gabi wrote:

lol that is so cool

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaXAZRbJ ... re=related
Damn, that's nice.
Mithos
Wow...forgot to search before I posted mine D:

Anyways, for spinners I had an idea that there would be little hitcircles (like in regular osu) that you would have to get to before the timer is up. They would be ordered so you could have complex patterns (stars, spirals, etc). There would be some default patterns made for beatmaps without a DtB mode.

I also support the graze=points method. If you want a high score, you would generally go towards the spot with more bullets so you can graze more, but if you cannot you find an easy spot to do little grazes. That generally translates to better player = more grazes = better score.

Another thing... with mods, the relax mode would change the controls from arrows to mouse, and there could be a mod called "Turbo" (subject to change), where you cannot use shift to focus like before. "No Video" could be replaced with "Simplistic", where all the bullets would be the same color, and many effects (like cut-ins) would be turned off.

Osu is going to turn into the best universal rhythm game compilation ever. EVER.
Zone51
how about enemies for like the hit circles ?
they fire to the beat but if you shoot it you get more points then shooting them after they fires
(if you shoot at the time of the beat you can gain more points)
in a word ''beat cancel''(it does not mute the beat but you get more points by doing this but grazing is also good)
so this will let 2 styles of players, grazers and Cancelers.

depending on what i said just passing ideas around
Mithos
I was going into this thinking the whole game would be the boss battles (no fodder enemies). You never know.

Another way for spinners to work could be like in touhou, where a timer appears and you have to do enough damage in the time limit for the bonus (or to clear the spinner). This way, the fast spinners can be done just by catching a few bullets on the enemy.
Reunilu
Sounds like a great idea. I imagine if I put on SuddenDeath and miss, I would see a spellcard in my face like Marisa's Master Spark or Mokou's Imperishable Shooting.
Scrublord_old
awsome idea
Gabi
Ah, i forgott about this, nice bump ^^
theMikeAG
I remember thinking of something like this a while ago. Except my version was about dodging meteors. :P

Anyway, I don't know about the whole grazing thing (never played touhou), but I wonder if a system like Ikaruga would work. Some bullets would need to be avoided, while others would need to be collected.

jonathan wrote:

How about color-based shot types? For example, Green can be a wide double shot, Blue can be two shots in succession in time to the key signature, red can be a shotgun-style formation of 5, and yellow or orange can be a bomb shot you can't get 10 pixels within when it explodes.
Great minds think alike. :D I thought of something like this too, but with hitsounds instead of colors.
gat1toneku
support from me, i've always wanted to play something like this
Lunah_old

SSShaymin wrote:

Sounds like a great idea. I imagine if I put on SuddenDeath and miss, I would see a spellcard in my face like Marisa's Master Spark or Mokou's Imperishable Shooting.
AND THEN .. IS TIME TO NECRO
DJNightmare
I think its a better way if you played the song yourself and did it once and played it before, then save it as a replay. Then when playing tohosu, it will use the replay data to do the shooting arrangement. 300s will have a flower pattern shooting or something, then maybe 100s will have a circle shooting and then 50s will have like ... some other pattern and then for crosses, more bullets than others.
theMikeAG
That doesn't seem like a good idea. That would make "Touhosu" far too dependent on a separate mode.

Although, thinking about it, the idea of the beats themselves being the source of the bullets does appeal to me. That sounds like it would work lovely.
loli66
maybe for added this mod can be a good idea the mapper design the patron of the bullets.
J U D G E
Hmm sounds like an interesting idea.

Off topic: I myself would rather see a beatmania-ish game on osu! though.
Mithos
I was thinking perhaps that every beat would spawn a simple to dodge wave of bullets, while the actual beat circles would spawn bullets in different patterns based off of their hit sound. One would be like a firework, one would be a more targeted spray, and so on and so forth. Spinners would be a wave of fast bullets (like the rainbow of bullets that are fired in touhou sometimes) that would take quick movements to dodge. The "Boss" would move to the X value of where the beat circles are located, and you would get points on a fixed rate if you were able to keep shooting the boss as he/she moved along the screen.
theowest
10000 times better than CtB. \:D/
Copter-kun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXktr7MLicY this is a good example of a Touhosu
theowest
Fix'd, what he/she said ^

Copter-kun

theowest wrote:

Fix'd, what he/she said ^

First when i tried dat, it was all white so i edited it :/
theowest

Copter-kun wrote:

theowest wrote:

Fix'd, what he/she said ^

First when i tried dat, it was all white so i edited it :/
yeah, but I fix'd it.

oh.. and ziin made a beatmap with that song http://osu.ppy.sh/s/24631
Copter-kun
and yes i knew that before. Hard as hell X_X
theowest
More epic stuff

ShadowzI_old
Sounds epic... the idea sounds alot like AudioSurfs dodging bad beats... or the crazy Touhou music syncs
The only issue I would think is.... how would it still keep true to a rythmn game. Otherwise... you would have my vote...
If I could vote that is

Jsuk someone has a bullet hell based on music files already
http://tzai-entertainment.com/games/shmusicup/
But it's not as fun :|
A better version of it does exist... but it's all in Japanese (figures)
called Ryujin Plus or 四聖龍神録Plus
And yes it is Hare Hare Yukai :)

Sekai
to lazy =w=
but i support this lol
Bobo_old
Dunno how standard osu maps would convert into Touhousu maps but I support this~! :D
Perhaps it can be like CTB and give the player the ability to change the character sprite.
Backfire
Oh my god after seeing that cold pizza video, it all makes sense now. I want pippi shrine maiden now ;-;
Petya_old
Beatmaps could be converted like this:
- the beatmap is played in auto mode and you get the points like you would in osu mode
- hit circles release bullets in circles when hit
- sliders release aimed bullet streams
- spinners release bullets in a spiral
- the player controls Pippi and if you get hit the combo counter resets
- graze gives some points so people who FC a song (no-miss clear) can compete with grazing instead of everyone having the same score
ziin
Feature request: Add bombs.

Make a CTB only map and stick a crapload of bombs on the map with lowest circle size.

Otherwise replace the bombs with actual notes and explain to people the object is to finish the game with the lowest number of points.

Best done on nofail.
DJNightmare
PLEASE, MAKE THIS POSSIBLE
My1_old

Petya wrote:

Beatmaps could be converted like this:
- the beatmap is played in auto mode and you get the points like you would in osu mode
- hit circles release bullets in circles when hit
- sliders release aimed bullet streams
- spinners release bullets in a spiral
- the player controls Pippi and if you get hit the combo counter resets
- graze gives some points so people who FC a song (no-miss clear) can compete with grazing instead of everyone having the same score
who is pippi anyways???
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