Farming hards is easier than playing hard stuff and it is more rewarding@pp. I haven't been playing this for ages but some of my top performances are random DT HD plays on random [Hard]s. :/
ok so by using logic you showed why the one map would give more pp than the other. then lets look at another example: me.Silynn wrote:
I find this hard to believe, lol (because it's wrong - even if you don't dislike pp farmers that doesn't mean it's true for everyone)Aqo wrote:
Nobody dislikes PP farmers, that's where you're wrong Silynn.
But yes, most people don't realize that the boundaries set by a difficulty name (hard or insane) are very very vague (some insanes are easier than average hards, and some hards are harder than a lot of insanes)
I mostly started this thread because of this exact misconception (just because it is labeled "hard" does not mean it is easier than an insane, especially when stacking DT)
I'd like to see someone tell me that this on DT isn't harder than 95% of the insanes in the game.
Not to mention, why does it matter that a lot of hards are weighted such? If they were truly so easy, they would be weighted lower by the system (difficulty is not necessarily difficulty to FC -- accuracy matters a lot in PP, which makes sense, since this is a game about clicking circles to a beat)While the system does have flaws, I can point out to you exactly why this map isn't worth that much PPsilmarilen wrote:
this map https://osu.ppy.sh/b/192508&m=0 which is already harder to fc nomod than the other one is to fc with hd dt has only 5 hd hr scores and the #1 doesnt even have it in his top 10 performances and hes not even top100
1. the pp system doesn't care about map difficulty, it only cares about what the leaderboard looks like.
2. the pp system is heavily based on accuracy. while you may disagree with this, it makes a lot of sense (as I said above)
and if you sort the map by no mod scores, what do you see? A full page of SS ranks.
also, that map has a pretty decent play count, but not particularly high (kuusou has 420,000 plays on the hard diff, not to mention the entire page is HDDT scores and there's only 6 SS with that many)
yesilmarilen wrote:
ok so by using logic you showed why the one map would give more pp than the other. then lets look at another example: me.
my whole top10 performance is hd fl on incredibly easy maps yet im almost top500 pp (i used to be top500). how is that fair?
and dont tell me i used a lot of plays so its dedication, because some of them were done in less than 20 plays
silmarilen wrote:
that map gave me 1pp
i was more talking about these ones
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/40379?m=0
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/201644?m=0
Blue Dragon just pointed the biggest shit in the pp system, I love him for that.PP system is basically ACCURACY.Blue Dragon wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/134551&m=0 barely gave me pp while HD+HR people get 242443932498 pp from it
I hate how this system is fully based on accuracy lol
>implying people who farm hard's can't play InsaneDefacer wrote:
On topic: I personally don't understand someone, how can he live knowing he is ranked top #100 in global performance and have Hard as his top performance o_O, I would rather quit this game.If I am top100 I would be expected to play AT LEAST insane maps, right?
Oh no I should be ashamed and kill myself now as I have [Hard] maps as my top performance andDefacer wrote:
Blue Dragon just pointed the biggest shit in the pp system, I love him for that.PP system is basically ACCURACY.Blue Dragon wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/134551&m=0 barely gave me pp while HD+HR people get 242443932498 pp from it
I hate how this system is fully based on accuracy lol
osu! is the only game in which hard can give more power than insane, and some people JUST CONTINUE CLAIMING that HARD+DT isn't that easy, WELL put some DT(or even HR) on insane and check again.I am simply amazed how I get pp for random nomod S on a fucking LAME map while I enter top40 or at least top100 on a harder map WITH DT and get 0~1pp each time.
On topic: I personally don't understand someone, how can he live knowing he is ranked top #100 in global performance and have Hard as his top performance o_O, I would rather quit this game.If I am top100 I would be expected to play AT LEAST insane maps, right?And I don't hate those people cause everybody is free to do what he wants, what I am saying is that pp system sux.
Ya, I don't know how RUCKER can live with himself having a [Hard] as his top performance, you are right. That jerk. GOSH! He is just a hard spammer who can't even pl-Defacer wrote:
Blue Dragon just pointed the biggest shit in the pp system, I love him for that.PP system is basically ACCURACY.Blue Dragon wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/134551&m=0 barely gave me pp while HD+HR people get 242443932498 pp from it
I hate how this system is fully based on accuracy lol
osu! is the only game in which hard can give more power than insane, and some people JUST CONTINUE CLAIMING that HARD+DT isn't that easy, WELL put some DT(or even HR) on insane and check again.I am simply amazed how I get pp for random nomod S on a fucking LAME map while I enter top40 or at least top100 on a harder map WITH DT and get 0~1pp each time.
On topic: I personally don't understand someone, how can he live knowing he is ranked top #100 in global performance and have Hard as his top performance o_O, I would rather quit this game.If I am top100 I would be expected to play AT LEAST insane maps, right?And I don't hate those people cause everybody is free to do what he wants, what I am saying is that pp system sux.
^thisThatgooey wrote:
I really wish people would put less emphasis on the amount of PP they get from playing a map and care more about the fact that they got a top15 on a map in the first place. That is reward enough. That is actual progress that you can see. It's right there in front of you, you just got rank 15 on an insane map. Why do you want more? I smile every god damn time I make a top40 with mods on an insane map. It's a good feeling. I don't give a shit about the performance points, I just ranked higher than a player who I know is good, and probably better than me. I can physically see my name placed above them on the scoreboard for that song.
How I realized that, yes.Silynn wrote:
stefan: do people really think that
I am obviously not implying this, also apparently my words come to your head really really offensive, as I am being mocked by 2-3 people there, obviously we have language misunderstandings, also I was joking but some people just got offended by this apparently, I kinda realized when I translate directly from my language it just sucks for others, also any other addition like sarcasm etc isn't valid on the internet, ok w/e.Zarerion wrote:
>implying people who farm hard's can't play InsaneDefacer wrote:
On topic: I personally don't understand someone, how can he live knowing he is ranked top #100 in global performance and have Hard as his top performance o_O, I would rather quit this game.If I am top100 I would be expected to play AT LEAST insane maps, right?
shilkey only cares about #1s, more people need to do dthr tho it's easy to learnWinshley wrote:
Another thing is Accuracy. Some people hate certain mod combination with perfect accuracy to lose over someone with bad accuracy just because the person has additional HR mod. (Sorry, Saint and Shilkey/Hanyuu-chan, but I know someone who added you into their hate list. I actually don't care about it. ;< )
xsrsbsns wrote:
Naturally it also looks desperate and of course no one likes that.
silmarilen wrote:
ok so by using logic you showed why the one map would give more pp than the other. then lets look at another example: me.
my whole top10 performance is hd fl on incredibly easy maps yet im almost top500 pp (i used to be top500). how is that fair?
and dont tell me i used a lot of plays so its dedication, because some of them were done in less than 20 plays
Blue Dragon wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/134551&m=0 barely gave me pp while HD+HR people get 242443932498 pp from it
I hate how this system is fully based on accuracy lol
Satonaka wrote:
imo It's because [Hard]s in beatmaps are labeled as Insane for osu! thus making them give similar (if not the same) pp.
Like silmarilen's examples. Both [Hard]s and [Insane]s display the I star for Insane. http://puu.sh/2qaAo and http://puu.sh/2qaAO
fartownik wrote:
If you farm PP on the main Insanes of the sets and do it with the hardest mod combination possible to achieve #1 then it's fine (aka Cookiezi farming). You can say it's not actually farming but just spamming #1s. Farming on Hards is simply wrong because you don't have enough of top tier players playing them to challenge with, which means getting the first place on them is easier than the main Insane, no matter the level of the difficulty itself. It can be as hard as the toughest Insanes, but still there's not enough competition and you just can't know how good the best players would do on them. It doesn't make the score any less impressive, but gives you additional PP that you don't deserve.
AmaiHachimitsu wrote:
Nothing I can do about it, but I dislike when 70% of top 100 are FLwhores. Every damn map with some exceptions is gonna be FLed sooner or later T.T
AmaiHachimitsu wrote:
96% hdhr is like SS hd, please....
AmaiHachimitsu wrote:
Why the most played maps do give MUCH more pp? Instead of encouraging people to play miscellaneous maps they play only a bunch when they want to rank up. Who cares if a map is super-popular - top #30 will give you more pp than a #1 on a map that may be even harder, but happened to not be noticed. That's why some FLwhore can waste few days and gain outrageous amount of pp and in most cases a score with HDFL is the limit since one additional mod would make the map impossibru. This way FLers can even drop the game and remain top 50 for the next years.
Thatgooey wrote:
All of these factors lead to hard maps being worth a lot of performance points. Should you care? Probably not.
Winshley wrote:
Additionally, some old maps still tends to be a "pp gold mine". I believe this might be because of lacking dedication from pro players towards those maps.
Because most of these hards are easy and come with an insane in the mapset. Why play something easier just to get more pp?Silynn wrote:
I look around for maps that give points, and if I think I can get a good rank on it, I go for it. Why is that desperate, just because the map so happens to be labeled "hard"?
I haven't really read any of the rest of the thread, but honestly, sometimes I feel there is just a lingering jealousy that you should be higher ranked than this, this, and this person, and your excuse is that you are too lazy or whatever, but you still feel like something's missing or something.It's not laziness, I'd rather say it's pride. Most of us can start farming hards, but doing so will make us another farmers. We're jealous of ranks, but we know they're not justified. That's why we whine about pp not being correctly prepared. If PP is supposed to show skill, let it do so. All of us would prefer justice, right?
nah, im sure that if you SS freedom dive with HD DT it will give more pp than any hard with HD DTLily-Kun wrote:
Quite Simple:
Farming Hards gives a substantial amount of PP.
Freedom Dive gives similar amounts of PP.
a very likely scenariosilmarilen wrote:
SS freedom dive with HD DT
Teach me :3Saint wrote:
shilkey only cares about #1s, more people need to do dthr tho it's easy to learn
You were right until you hit this point. Finding an effective combination of skills is much different than playing at a lower difficulty with the same reward (That would be more of a glitch in an RPG.) Also, not all PP farmers are better than the players they are ranked higher as. They are just ranked higher because they are able to farm a hard which gives a shit ton of PP._tear wrote:
pp farmers don't cheat the system any more than an RPG player who found an effective combination of skills. They're simply good at osu, because pp is part of osu. In the end it's just a scoring system. It doesn't match what you think "skill" is, but it'll never match everyone's definition of it anyway.