. Damn, how should we decide this? Let's do multi, noob, and may the best player win!" 
Not worrying about your rank going up would only apply to new players because the more experienced players tend to either not care about it or know why it isn't. The farmer problem would occur for every ranking system because every ranking system is theoretically farmable and an unfarmable system is just as bad as a very farmable one.Artaxerx wrote:
You can't be serious with that comparison. Political systems and in-game ranking systems are two entirely different things. Removing political systems will cause more problems than it will solve.... actually it won't solve anything! I already mentioned the advantages of no rankings. I'm really curious to hear the disadvantages...
Pretty sure not worrying about your rank going up *or* down is usually players that just enjoy clicking dots for the hell of it. Nothing to do with new or old players. One could look at even you and tell that you care about your rank even though in your own post you say more experienced players don't do this, a bit hypocritical.Almost wrote:
Not worrying about your rank going up would only apply to new players because the more experienced players tend to either not care about it or know why it isn't. The farmer problem would occur for every ranking system because every ranking system is theoretically farmable and an unfarmable system is just as bad as a very farmable one.Artaxerx wrote:
You can't be serious with that comparison. Political systems and in-game ranking systems are two entirely different things. Removing political systems will cause more problems than it will solve.... actually it won't solve anything! I already mentioned the advantages of no rankings. I'm really curious to hear the disadvantages...
Disadvantage of not having a ranking system is that we can't see how good we are relative to other players. Your method of determining a better player would only be viable for a small party competing against one another but a lot of players would rather see how well they are doing on a global scale. Of course we can't really see this accurately from the current ranking system but at least it gives us some sort of idea rather than being completely clueless.
When I was talking about people worried about that rank, I was talking about those people who post those thread on the forums asking why their rank wasn't changing after submitting a lot of crap scores or lost ranking even after submitting a better score. Worrying about rank is different to just gaining ranks for fun or for the hell of it.JappyBabes wrote:
Pretty sure not worrying about your rank going up *or* down is usually players that just enjoy clicking dots for the hell of it. Nothing to do with new or old players. One could look at even you and tell that you care about your rank even though in your own post you say more experienced players don't do this, a bit hypocritical.Almost wrote:
Not worrying about your rank going up would only apply to new players because the more experienced players tend to either not care about it or know why it isn't. The farmer problem would occur for every ranking system because every ranking system is theoretically farmable and an unfarmable system is just as bad as a very farmable one.
Disadvantage of not having a ranking system is that we can't see how good we are relative to other players. Your method of determining a better player would only be viable for a small party competing against one another but a lot of players would rather see how well they are doing on a global scale. Of course we can't really see this accurately from the current ranking system but at least it gives us some sort of idea rather than being completely clueless.
This isn't an issue with farming, either, there's nothing wrong with farming itself. It's a different story, however, when you're searching for maps that give an absurd reward for little effort, or just grinding through a bunch of easy maps until you get something in return. I remember earlier in this thread Kaoru said that getting a HD DT on a [Hard] isn't always a walk in the park, citing http://osu.ppy.sh/b/205378 which took <10 minutes to FC offline. I don't know what else to attribute such a warped view of difficulty to (at the time, at least) besides rarely exposing yourself to anything but spaced 1/2. "Performance Points (pp) is a ranking metric aiming to be more contextually relevant to a continuous game like osu!. It aims to shift the focus from being on the amount of time played to the actual skill of the player." The wiki goes on to say how it shouldn't be able to be farmed, and ranking on harder difficulties will net you more points but it's clear that none of that holds, even peppy has strayed from what he thought it'd originally be. By now it should be no secret that the ranking system failed, evident by people like yourself or members of Team USA that have their ranks inflated by unreasonable amounts. It's already troublesome to try and see where players are on a global scale when you have inflation running so rampant and deep into the higher ranks.
almost.Almost wrote:
people who can play incredibly difficult maps really low in the rankings (like people who can FC Scarlet Rose being below 10k rank)
AmaiHachimitsu wrote:
Those players who want to be regarded as pro players will have to do something more difficult than playing Carnival [Hard] on DTHD or some other2008 [Normal]s if the ranking becomes fair.
Sure, it takes some skill to get to the rank you have today, or a reasonable amount of skill to FC that [Hard], but I wouldn't come close to siding with the viewpoint that either of those levels of skill are deserving of top 100. I dislike the way you phrased that map as '300 BPM 1/2 spam' also, it's an incredibly simplified version of those double BPM maps like Remind or No,39, nor did I say it's something that anyone can do. It's just a terrible example to give when you preface it by saying 'incredibly difficult 2key map'. Remote Control on the other hand, is a good example. The spacing on that along with the OD requirement justify being rewarded decently for performing well on it, even with HD HR for the higher ranked players. If you read my post you would know that I don't think the issue is with farming as every system that will ever be created could be farmed to inflate ranks. The issue is with starting with such a broken system in the first place. I didn't say you were 'unskilled' either, I said you were another player with a rank that was inflated by an unreasonable amount. You do have good scores, extremely impressive even, e.g. Kimono Princess, that's a real 'incredibly difficult 2key map'. I certainly don't think that those justify being top 50 though or even top 100, they are too far and few between for me. TP is objectively more accurate at measuring skill through one's performances though I still dislike resorting to it, there's still a few issues and ideas that need to implemented which could drastically change the rankings and it's up to Tom if he still has interest in the project when he's less busy to work on it. My posts aren't here to keep your feelings here from being hurt, to prevent you from feeling insecure or whatever else, I'm not going to omit certain words from a post because it might offend you.Kaoru wrote:
Jappy, even if you DID actually do that score in 10 minutes on offline I'd still argue that the score does take a reasonable amount of skill. 300 BPM 1/2 spam is not something just ANYONE can do. While it may not be difficult to you I'm sure people widely regard it as something that is fairly difficult. Another example off the top of my head of difficult maps that yield pp would be remote control. That map is pretty well rounded in almost all areas aside from speed (unless you're cookiezi and you DT it) and streams. Not all pp maps are "2008 [Normals]." Or 180 BPM HD DT [Hards]. Difficult maps are farmable too. See: my tp rank. I went from 500 to about 160 in a little over 2 days (this was roughly 2 months ago). I'm honestly a little pissed that you're lumping me in with the farmers and unskilled players. I have farmed before and my top ranks do not include anything notably difficult, however I do sincerely believe that I'm not "just another farmer" and my skill is on par with a good handful of the top 100. Before you cite me or any of team USA as examples of farmers please consider how we feel about it. I'm not saying we're exceptional players, but it does require SOME skill to get to the ranks we have today.