Curious, a lot of people around these forums seem to dislike others for trying to get high in the game's primary ranking.
Why?
Why?
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What do you have against PP farmers?
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Well people dislike it if people ranks up very fast. And so that they call it as "farming". In other words: You are not allowed to play so much.
because pp is supposed to show skill, and if there are 3 hard farmers in the top10 above people that can 99% od10 high difficulty insanes, then its not very accurate.
its not so much the hard farmers that are hated, its the pp system that favours farming hards thats hated. if hards stopped giving so much pp nobody would complain.
its not so much the hard farmers that are hated, its the pp system that favours farming hards thats hated. if hards stopped giving so much pp nobody would complain.
zozozofun
People are jelly.
Topic Starter
Silma: which players are you talking about, anyways? I don't see anyone in the top 10 that can't play high difficulty insanes with good accuracy. Also, the pp system favoring hards is a really silly misconception (it is just generally easier to get good scores on hards for most players than on insanes, so most players see hards giving them the bulk of their pp -- because of this, you could say hards are favored in a way, but they will only take you so far unless you are really really good)
stefan: do people really think that
stefan: do people really think that
sure they can get great score in high difficulty insanes, but then they should do so instead of farming hards. and saying hards do not give way too much pp is just stupid, if they didnt they wouldnt be in the top performance of the #3
Nobody dislikes PP farmers, that's where you're wrong Silynn.
People just wrongly think that somebody in top50 with [Hard]s in their best performance is at the same skill level as somebody with [Hard]s in their top performance who isn't, which is far from true, but most people don't know all the maps in this game by heart and don't realize the difference between a 140bpm [Hard]DT and a 200bpm [Hard]DT.
Unfortunately the truly impressive plays for players in the top are not on [Hard]DTs either, but the PP system is stupid and leads to those problems to begin with.
People just wrongly think that somebody in top50 with [Hard]s in their best performance is at the same skill level as somebody with [Hard]s in their top performance who isn't, which is far from true, but most people don't know all the maps in this game by heart and don't realize the difference between a 140bpm [Hard]DT and a 200bpm [Hard]DT.
Unfortunately the truly impressive plays for players in the top are not on [Hard]DTs either, but the PP system is stupid and leads to those problems to begin with.
or a 200bpm [insane]DTAqo wrote:
Nobody dislikes PP farmers, that's where you're wrong Silynn.
People just wrongly think that somebody in top50 with [Hard]s in their best performance is at the same skill level as somebody with [Hard]s in their top performance who isn't, which is far from true, but most people don't know all the maps in this game by heart and don't realize the difference between a 140bpm [Hard]DT and a 200bpm [Hard]DT.
this map https://osu.ppy.sh/b/125099?m=0 has 6 HD DT SS and its the #2 performance of the #3 ranked player in the pp list
this map https://osu.ppy.sh/b/192508&m=0 which is already harder to fc nomod than the other one is to fc with hd dt has only 5 hd hr scores and the #1 doesnt even have it in his top 10 performances and hes not even top100
Topic Starter
I find this hard to believe, lol (because it's wrong - even if you don't dislike pp farmers that doesn't mean it's true for everyone)Aqo wrote:
Nobody dislikes PP farmers, that's where you're wrong Silynn.
But yes, most people don't realize that the boundaries set by a difficulty name (hard or insane) are very very vague (some insanes are easier than average hards, and some hards are harder than a lot of insanes)
I mostly started this thread because of this exact misconception (just because it is labeled "hard" does not mean it is easier than an insane, especially when stacking DT)
I'd like to see someone tell me that this on DT isn't harder than 95% of the insanes in the game.
Not to mention, why does it matter that a lot of hards are weighted such? If they were truly so easy, they would be weighted lower by the system (difficulty is not necessarily difficulty to FC -- accuracy matters a lot in PP, which makes sense, since this is a game about clicking circles to a beat)
While the system does have flaws, I can point out to you exactly why this map isn't worth that much PPsilmarilen wrote:
this map https://osu.ppy.sh/b/192508&m=0 which is already harder to fc nomod than the other one is to fc with hd dt has only 5 hd hr scores and the #1 doesnt even have it in his top 10 performances and hes not even top100
1. the pp system doesn't care about map difficulty, it only cares about what the leaderboard looks like.
2. the pp system is heavily based on accuracy. while you may disagree with this, it makes a lot of sense (as I said above)
and if you sort the map by no mod scores, what do you see? A full page of SS ranks.
also, that map has a pretty decent play count, but not particularly high (kuusou has 420,000 plays on the hard diff, not to mention the entire page is HDDT scores and there's only 6 SS with that many)
imo if a system can be exploited, it will be exploited. I share the view that the current pp system is the source of the problem.
I think people are venting their frustration here because there's very little they can do to change it.
I think people are venting their frustration here because there's very little they can do to change it.
Well basically, many people don't think "pp farmers" deserves the rank they have, now especially when they themselves believe that the "pp farmers" aren't that much better than themself. Soooooo basically people are jelly of them ranks \o/
I'm jelly cause most of them are better then me but at the same time i'm disappointed cause very good player who are better then those "pp farmers" are like #100 or #200 while the farmers are in top 10.
It's little more than bitterness. Any system will be exploited, because the most efficient players are cheap as fuck by nature. Performance Points are at least a more accurate representation of one's ability, as opposed to showing nothing more than how lacking one's life is. By design, the system is supposed to react more to accuracy and hotly-contested maps.
Even though it's usually agreed to be a horrible practice, when people snipe the #1s of specific players, that's just the nature of competition. People may hate farmers, but those with skill and determination ought to be good enough to oust the farmers. There's not much point in whining, when one could pour their efforts into winning.
Even though it's usually agreed to be a horrible practice, when people snipe the #1s of specific players, that's just the nature of competition. People may hate farmers, but those with skill and determination ought to be good enough to oust the farmers. There's not much point in whining, when one could pour their efforts into winning.
Farming hards is easier than playing hard stuff and it is more rewarding@pp. I haven't been playing this for ages but some of my top performances are random DT HD plays on random [Hard]s. :/
they get pp when they try to when I absolutely fail at it, whether or not I try
100% jelly
100% jelly
This is pretty straightforward..
People hate pp farmers for deliberately playing easy/easier diffs to gain additional pp, because they think it's unfair when they themselves and other pro players do not farm (a key point here). Naturally it also looks desperate and of course no one likes that.
People hate pp farmers for deliberately playing easy/easier diffs to gain additional pp, because they think it's unfair when they themselves and other pro players do not farm (a key point here). Naturally it also looks desperate and of course no one likes that.
ok so by using logic you showed why the one map would give more pp than the other. then lets look at another example: me.Silynn wrote:
I find this hard to believe, lol (because it's wrong - even if you don't dislike pp farmers that doesn't mean it's true for everyone)Aqo wrote:
Nobody dislikes PP farmers, that's where you're wrong Silynn.
But yes, most people don't realize that the boundaries set by a difficulty name (hard or insane) are very very vague (some insanes are easier than average hards, and some hards are harder than a lot of insanes)
I mostly started this thread because of this exact misconception (just because it is labeled "hard" does not mean it is easier than an insane, especially when stacking DT)
I'd like to see someone tell me that this on DT isn't harder than 95% of the insanes in the game.
Not to mention, why does it matter that a lot of hards are weighted such? If they were truly so easy, they would be weighted lower by the system (difficulty is not necessarily difficulty to FC -- accuracy matters a lot in PP, which makes sense, since this is a game about clicking circles to a beat)While the system does have flaws, I can point out to you exactly why this map isn't worth that much PPsilmarilen wrote:
this map https://osu.ppy.sh/b/192508&m=0 which is already harder to fc nomod than the other one is to fc with hd dt has only 5 hd hr scores and the #1 doesnt even have it in his top 10 performances and hes not even top100
1. the pp system doesn't care about map difficulty, it only cares about what the leaderboard looks like.
2. the pp system is heavily based on accuracy. while you may disagree with this, it makes a lot of sense (as I said above)
and if you sort the map by no mod scores, what do you see? A full page of SS ranks.
also, that map has a pretty decent play count, but not particularly high (kuusou has 420,000 plays on the hard diff, not to mention the entire page is HDDT scores and there's only 6 SS with that many)
my whole top10 performance is hd fl on incredibly easy maps yet im almost top500 pp (i used to be top500). how is that fair?
and dont tell me i used a lot of plays so its dedication, because some of them were done in less than 20 plays
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/134551&m=0 barely gave me pp while HD+HR people get 242443932498 pp from it
I hate how this system is fully based on accuracy lol
I hate how this system is fully based on accuracy lol
imo It's because [Hard]s in beatmaps are labeled as Insane for osu! thus making them give similar (if not the same) pp.
Like silmarilen's examples. Both [Hard]s and [Insane]s display the I star for Insane. http://puu.sh/2qaAo and http://puu.sh/2qaAO
Like silmarilen's examples. Both [Hard]s and [Insane]s display the I star for Insane. http://puu.sh/2qaAo and http://puu.sh/2qaAO