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Let's talk Easy mod
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I think Lyby points out a great mis-aspect of the game. With the at-least-one-difficulty-under-the-star-rating-3.00 rule in place, the easiest difficulty in a mapset should be approachable to completely new players. LH has a point, but if the easiest difficulty in a mapset needs an Easy mode for players to be able to pass it, then it is more likely that the Easy difficulty was mapped wrongly than that Easy mode is really helpful.
I am for tweaking the Easy mode so that it actually makes the maps easier rather than completely removing it. Decreasing the AR/OD by a static number (2 seems appropriate) and increasing the circle size by 1 only when the circle size is under a specific value (perhaps 3 or lower?) seems like a good solution to me.
I am for tweaking the Easy mode so that it actually makes the maps easier rather than completely removing it. Decreasing the AR/OD by a static number (2 seems appropriate) and increasing the circle size by 1 only when the circle size is under a specific value (perhaps 3 or lower?) seems like a good solution to me.
That would be interesting.Lybydose wrote:
3) Make the current Easy mode a difficulty increasing mod with a score multiplier (lol). It would certainly be harder than Hard Rock, Hidden, and even Flashlight on a lot of maps.
The only thing that bothers me about Easy is AR and 3 hp refills. Maybe easy mod should just reduce AR by 2 and have the hp refill instantly instead of a pause then a sudden go. (And possibly failing again because you werent ready)
Or maybe an Easy mode that acts based on the star rating/maps setup.
For the second one, i mean a behavior based on the map slider speed, distance snap and OD. Something like that. (Maybe that could help with the stacking problems)
For the second one, i mean a behavior based on the map slider speed, distance snap and OD. Something like that. (Maybe that could help with the stacking problems)
fucking this.OzzyOzrock wrote:
EasyMod should let you choose the diff settings. That's it.
Completely fixes this problem:
Make Approach Rate function for user definable option
What about score multiplier then? It wouldn't be "fair" if 1 person uses easy mode to set every option to 1 and the other person will set it from 9 to 8 or just slightly change the map difficulty.ziin wrote:
fucking this.OzzyOzrock wrote:
EasyMod should let you choose the diff settings. That's it.
Completely fixes this problem:
Make Approach Rate function for user definable option
If you want to make a different multiplier for different settings, then what multiplier should be chosen for each setting possibility? Making it possible to change for example approach rate, hp drain and cicrle size on insane songs from 9 to 1. That will lead into xxxx possibilities which you can choose and all must have an appropriate score multiplier. Even if you will spend years of calculating that who says that it can't be somehow abused/cheated/hacked or anything like that since the latest "problems" about 'hacking". It also will be way harder to find that out with different settings and multiplier rankings.
I think it should be just removed or made unranked. Maybe just unranked so that people can learn to play Osu! first without screwing their statistics. (Although there are relax and auto play mods for that too but would be an alternative). What to do with already ranked songs/maps with people using Easy Mode? Nothing. Keep them as they are. (Reminds me of the Flashligh problem when it was also removed but people could keep their already completed scores). Anyway making this mode unranked will not influence any high-end gameplay, because the score multiplier is lower than the "no mod" gameplay anyway.
P.S. I wrote (in my opinion) the reason why I think the "easy mode" shouldn't be used anyway in a previous post.
Why not? it's 0.5x anyway, and the max score is further augmented by the difficulty you set. You don't think it's fair that someone can use HP1 and OD1 on some random map and get 90% of the score of someone who does HP5 OD5?Neruell wrote:
What about score multiplier then? It wouldn't be "fair" if 1 person uses easy mode to set every option to 1 and the other person will set it from 9 to 8 or just slightly change the map difficulty.
It's built into osu! We don't have to do anything.Neruell wrote:
If you want to make a different multiplier for different settings, then what multiplier should be chosen for each setting possibility?
The max score of an OD 10 map will always be much higher than if it were at OD1. The further 0.5x modifier ruins any chance of anyone ever getting some "top score" on some song with it, and you can theoretically make the map harder if the mapper didn't do it right with ease.
Finally, I could actually play all my songs at AR8, the way it's supposed to be, without having to go into the osu file.
Teehee, about that....ziin wrote:
The max score of an OD 10 map will always be much higher than if it were at OD1.
So you want to make a specially made difficulty like [Another]/[Lunatic] after using easy mode become [Easy]? (Not literally but in some kind of way) For what? Why would you want to play [Another] with a slightly "better" AP/HP/OD or anything else and get a worse score then someone without using "Easy Mode"? If you do want to do it just for fun you can do it by going into editor and customize any song you like and how you want.ziin wrote:
Why not? it's 0.5x anyway, and the max score is further augmented by the difficulty you set. You don't think it's fair that someone can use HP1 and OD1 on some random map and get 90% of the score of someone who does HP5 OD5?Neruell wrote:
What about score multiplier then? It wouldn't be "fair" if 1 person uses easy mode to set every option to 1 and the other person will set it from 9 to 8 or just slightly change the map difficulty.It's built into osu! We don't have to do anything.Neruell wrote:
If you want to make a different multiplier for different settings, then what multiplier should be chosen for each setting possibility?
The max score of an OD 10 map will always be much higher than if it were at OD1. The further 0.5x modifier ruins any chance of anyone ever getting some "top score" on some song with it, and you can theoretically make the map harder if the mapper didn't do it right with ease.
Finally, I could actually play all my songs at AR8, the way it's supposed to be, without having to go into the osu file.
But I don't see any purpose in changing/edit an already ranked map how you want because it will ruin the mapping, modding the map in the first place. If it was ranked like that then it should stay like that. If you want to change it for fun, feel free to do in on your own with editor. If you do want to get a lower score than anyone else on [Lunatic]/[Another] and so on just use any of the mods already provided.
P.S. There is no need to rap the map especially when there are mostly more than 1 difficulty provided. Don't like [Lunatic] then play [Hard]. Also I am sure that everyone can post their opinion about maps that are WIP to maybe "improve" it but again if the mapper wants to use the specific circle size then you can't change his mind about it unless it will lead into never getting the map ranked.
2 million points for a 400 combo song is a lot IMO. Granted it'd only be cut down to 1 million with easy. Whatever. Easy is pretty much unranked anyway, because you're not going to get a high score with easy mod on.Shiirn wrote:
Teehee, about that...
No I want to be able to control the approach rate and make a song which I can't pass just easy enough for me to pass.Neruell wrote:
So you want to make a specially made difficulty like [Another]/[Lunatic] after using easy mode become [Easy]?
Multi-playerNeruell wrote:
Why would you want to play [Another] with a slightly "better" AP/HP/OD or anything else and get a worse score then someone without using "Easy Mode"?
so tedious and see above.Neruell wrote:
If you do want to do it just for fun you can do it by going into editor and customize any song you like and how you want.
No it won't. Don't be silly. And this is more of a fix for older maps than anything else.Neruell wrote:
it will ruin the mapping, modding the map in the first place.
What a waste of a perfectly good [lunatic] map because the AR, HP, or OD are bad.Neruell wrote:
Don't like [Lunatic] then play [Hard].
This doesn't help for maps which are already ranked, or the mapper is stubborn, or you just can't mod every single map on osu before it gets ranked.Neruell wrote:
Also I am sure that everyone can post their opinion about maps that are WIP to maybe "improve" it but again if the mapper wants to use the specific circle size then you can't change his mind about it unless it will lead into never getting the map ranked.
True that easy mod is dumb since you already have easy diffs in pretty much every ranked map, and if you can't follow -99 AR on an Easy map you're better off dropping this game.
Use editor for yourself if you want to customize the map for yourself only. If no one can pass it, the map wouldn't be ranked. Also if you don't like anything about [Lunatic] or w/e play [Hard] because then it will be easier to pass.ziin wrote:
No I want to be able to control the approach rate and make a song which I can't pass just easy enough for me to pass.Neruell wrote:
So you want to make a specially made difficulty like [Another]/[Lunatic] after using easy mode become [Easy]?
For what? If no one can pass it with a good accuracy then maybe you are too bad for the difficulty? Use [Hard] instead of [Lunatic]. If it is for fun then edit it on your own and give it to your friends. (With or without "customizable" Easy mode, you will have to edit the map anyway)ziin wrote:
Multi-playerNeruell wrote:
Why would you want to play [Another] with a slightly "better" AP/HP/OD or anything else and get a worse score then someone without using "Easy Mode"?
see aboveziin wrote:
so tedious and see above.Neruell wrote:
If you do want to do it just for fun you can do it by going into editor and customize any song you like and how you want.
You are willing to ask Peppy that he allows you and only you to "fix" all old maps and also you want to ask every person from today untill the ranking date of the song to retry the song because it was "slightly" improved? Also again, you said yourself you can't change anything anymore when the map is ranked (score based). So once it is ranked you must deal with the settings that are provided. Even if you would be able to "customize" something you will get a worse score which would have the same result as if you would mod it for yourself and play it for youself.ziin wrote:
No it won't. Don't be silly. And this is more of a fix for older maps than anything else.Neruell wrote:
it will ruin the mapping, modding the map in the first place.
If some settings are bad then the song itself can't be perfect because this settings are already the part of the map itself, like circle cize. Change it and the whole map and impression about it will change. Also feel free to suggest better settings to the mapper before the map gets ranked. Just either deal with it or map your own map before the other was is ranked and convience the BATs that your map is better. But if it's already done then it's done.ziin wrote:
What a waste of a perfectly good [lunatic] map because the AR, HP, or OD are bad.Neruell wrote:
Don't like [Lunatic] then play [Hard].
ziin wrote:
This doesn't help for maps which are already ranked, or the mapper is stubborn, or you just can't mod every single map on osu before it gets ranked.Neruell wrote:
Also I am sure that everyone can post their opinion about maps that are WIP to maybe "improve" it but again if the mapper wants to use the specific circle size then you can't change his mind about it unless it will lead into never getting the map ranked.
or you just can't mod every single map on osu before it gets ranked.But you do want to be able to change every one on your own with the easy mode instead. Since only you would be able to see that changes anyway, because the map is already ranked there is no real difference between "that" easy mode you say and editor. Again, edit it in editor if you want. The amounf of the time you will need will be pretty the same. Go to editor => map settings => change what you need. It would be same for easy mode. Click on easy mode => map settings => change what you need.
I guess something like this^Ijah wrote:
Agree++
Perhaps it could use a system like this:
And to avoid breaking the old scores, it could just stay set at the lowest at in all 3 sliders:
Also @Neruell: You're kinda focusing too much on scoring and whatnot. If someone finds it more enjoyable with a slightly different AR/OD, then let them find it more enjoyable instead of telling them to play something they might not find that fun.
Editing a map would mean that you can't get a score on it at all btw, so I don't see how you can say it is exactly the same. It can be used on some maps, especially if it does work like what Ijah said. And it is more tedious to go into editor to fix it, as well as playing in multiplayer.
Yes, you could just edit it and then share it, but don't you request or want stuff because they often make life easier? \:D/
Using the editor is tedious and does not work with multiplayerNeruell wrote:
Use editor
The whole point of "easy" is to make it easier for you. I don't care if someone else can pass it. I can't, but I'd like to. I'd also be fine with a user selectable AR and HP/OD/CS-1 or 2.Neruell wrote:
If no one can pass it, the map wouldn't be ranked.
Obviously, or we wouldn't be discussing an "easy" mod. But I thought you meant why would anyone play a map on easy with increased OD/CS/HP while getting less points? The answer is multiplayer. I usually don't play multiplayer with friends in particular, and nobody wants to download a new unranked difficulty for a gimmick. It's tedious.Neruell wrote:
If no one can pass it with a good accuracy then maybe you are too bad for the difficulty?
Presumably, when you click on "easy" it would bring up a gui where you can set the AR, OD, HP, and CS all in the mod screen.Neruell wrote:
(With or without "customizable" Easy mode, you will have to edit the map anyway)
What the hell are you talking about?Neruell wrote:
You are willing to ask Peppy that he allows you and only you to "fix" all old maps and also you want to ask every person from today untill the ranking date of the song to retry the song because it was "slightly" improved?
Unless someone implements the easy mod...Neruell wrote:
So once it is ranked you must deal with the settings that are provided
What a terrible waste of a map.Neruell wrote:
But if it's already done then it's done.
Again, multiplayer is easier to use mods, and using mods is much faster than the editor. If you use fullscreen it's even worse. Easy mode would also contribute to your total score, which I don't particularly think is a bad thing. Playing only unranked songs is like lying about your skill level.Neruell wrote:
But you do want to be able to change every one on your own with the easy mode instead. Since only you would be able to see that changes anyway, because the map is already ranked there is no real difference between "that" easy mode you say and editor. Again, edit it in editor if you want. The amount of the time you will need will be pretty the same. Go to editor => map settings => change what you need. It would be same for easy mode. Click on easy mode => map settings => change what you need.
Seriously I don't understand why you quote just a part of the sentence saying it's wrong without reading my sentences to the end. Why do you want to make [Lunatic] easier? It's the same as if you have 100 $ and want to buy an icecream that costs 4$ but you pay 100$ without getting anything back. Or if you want to ride a bicycle and start with a pilot license.
If you can't play [Lunatic] then just don't play it. "Easy mode" suppose to make [Easy] even easier than they are so that players with less than 1 playcount can play them. For increasing difficulty there are other mods and difficulties. Play [Hard]. If it is too "easy" for you, use mods to increase the difficulty. If you claim liking the [Lunatic] only then what is the problem about it? If you say AP/HP/OD is bad then you obvious don't like the map or else you wouldn't complain.
But it would only look like this because it is easy mode and not "change how you like mode". The easy mode itself should make it easier in general. If you have a map with for example AP 7 you can't raise it to 8 even with the "implemented" easy mode because that is not the purpose of the "easy" mode.
If you can't play [Lunatic] then just don't play it. "Easy mode" suppose to make [Easy] even easier than they are so that players with less than 1 playcount can play them. For increasing difficulty there are other mods and difficulties. Play [Hard]. If it is too "easy" for you, use mods to increase the difficulty. If you claim liking the [Lunatic] only then what is the problem about it? If you say AP/HP/OD is bad then you obvious don't like the map or else you wouldn't complain.
wtf? "easy mode" works only in 1 direction => making it easier. Easier means lower AR/OD/... and so on. Increasing something is called hardrock mode.ziin wrote:
Obviously, or we wouldn't be discussing an "easy" mod. But I thought you meant why would anyone play a map on easy with increased OD/CS/HP while getting less points? The answer is multiplayer. I usually don't play multiplayer with friends in particular, and nobody wants to download a new unranked difficulty for a gimmick. It's tedious.
You mean this screen? As far as I understood this should be want you expect for the "customizable" easy mode.ziin wrote:
Presumably, when you click on "easy" it would bring up a gui where you can set the AR, OD, HP, and CS all in the mod screen.
But it would only look like this because it is easy mode and not "change how you like mode". The easy mode itself should make it easier in general. If you have a map with for example AP 7 you can't raise it to 8 even with the "implemented" easy mode because that is not the purpose of the "easy" mode.
Use editor, edit what you want and how you want and play for fun. That is my answer (did say that tons of times) for without ranking scores.CXu wrote:
Also @Neruell: You're kinda focusing too much on scoring and whatnot. If someone finds it more enjoyable with a slightly different AR/OD, then let them find it more enjoyable instead of telling them to play something they might not find that fun.
Well, there is no system that is showing your skill level. Every ranking system that is now (Ranked Score, Playcount, Accuracy, Total score...) everything is farmable and not showing your true skill level. So you are already lying about it to everyone. In multiplayer if you see/ know that no one can pass the song you put on [insane] then put it on [hard] and everyone is happy and that is why there are more than just [insane] difficulties on the map. Compared to old maps that are 2-3 years old the new maps how tons of new rules and difficulties that are extra made for fluent play for any person for new players and pros so why not use it? Older maps can't be changed if you want to get a ranked score. Deal with it. For optimal customization you will need not easy mode but just a customizable mode that can change the map itself how you want. But this has nothing to do with "easy mode" itself which doesn't fit in this topic.ziin wrote:
Again, multiplayer is easier to use mods, and using mods is much faster than the editor. If you use fullscreen it's even worse. Easy mode would also contribute to your total score, which I don't particularly think is a bad thing. Playing only unranked songs is like lying about your skill level.
I did reply on what you said lol.ziin wrote:
What the hell are you talking about?
There are tons of them out and ranked.ziin wrote:
What a terrible waste of a map.
Topic Starter
I realize this, but right now, a good number of "actually new to the game" players find faster approach rate easier; slowing it down hardly helps. I don't say "all players" though, because I'm sure some people are better with slower approach rate, that's why I say Easy mod should let you choose.LuigiHann wrote:
It's a mod to make the easiest maps even easier so that brand new players can get used to hitting circles.
In addition, on actual easy maps the mod has little effect, since it simply cuts all the difficulty settings in half. Since easy map settings are already really low, cutting them in half doesn't do much (half of nothing is still nothing).
At the very least, the 3 life system needs to be revamped.
Make the new lives work instantaneously instead of interrupting the song and allow the player to choose his settings within a pre-defined margin.
I think it would work decently if you could choose AR freely and every other difficulty option could be lowered up to the point that it would normally be at with the current Easy Mod.
If a map had OD 8, you could choose to set it to anything from 4 to 8 with this mod, same for circle size and life drain.
So if for example you don't want to change your circle size because of stacking/pattern issues you don't have to.
I think it would work decently if you could choose AR freely and every other difficulty option could be lowered up to the point that it would normally be at with the current Easy Mod.
If a map had OD 8, you could choose to set it to anything from 4 to 8 with this mod, same for circle size and life drain.
So if for example you don't want to change your circle size because of stacking/pattern issues you don't have to.
Why you assume I don't read your post is beyond me. I don't need to quote everything. I'm answering all your questions which apply and summarizing paragraphs.Neruell wrote:
Seriously I don't understand why you quote just a part of the sentence saying it's wrong without reading my sentences to the end.
So I can beat it.Neruell wrote:
Why do you want to make [Lunatic] easier?
The whole point of this thread is to change that so that it's easier for every map.Neruell wrote:
"Easy mode" suppose to make [Easy] even easier than they are so that players with less than 1 playcount can play them.
What if there is no Hard, I like the song on a certain AP/HP/OD, and I want to play in multiplayer with those settings without having to upload anything?Neruell wrote:
Play [Hard]. If you say AP/HP/OD is bad then you obvious don't like the map or else you wouldn't complain.
Decreasing AR makes the map harder most of the time. Increasing OD etc... would be stupid but not necessarily pointless. Hard rock makes the map harder by messing with all 4 values and a vertical flip. What if you only want to increase one value?Neruell wrote:
"easy mode" works only in 1 direction => making it easier. Easier means lower AR/OD/... and so on.
Hopefully something a little more polished than that.Neruell wrote:
You mean this screen? As far as I understood this should be want you expect for the "customizable" easy mode.
I am asking peppy to make Easy mod let the player define AR, OD, CS, HP. Nothing in that request specified me fixing anything or requires every person to retry a song after ranking. What the hell are you talking about?Neruell wrote:
I did reply on what you said lol.Neruell wrote:
You are willing to ask Peppy that he allows you and only you to "fix" all old maps and also you want to ask every person from today untill the ranking date of the song to retry the song because it was "slightly" improved?
There's one.Neruell wrote:
There are tons of them out and ranked.
ziin wrote:
Why you assume I don't read your post is beyond me. I don't need to quote everything. I'm answering all your questions which apply and summarizing paragraphs.Neruell wrote:
Seriously I don't understand why you quote just a part of the sentence saying it's wrong without reading my sentences to the end.
If you can't beat [Lunatic] play [Hard]. Can't play [Hard] play [Normal]. Can't play [Normal] play [Easy]. Can't play [Easy] (HERE IT COMES) use [Easy] WITH "easy mode". Can't do that, quit Osu!. That is a normal logic a normal player would use to play any game not just Osu!. You don't start a game (any game not just Osu!) on insane and then blame it for being too hard or too unbalanced.ziin wrote:
So I can beat it.Neruell wrote:
Why do you want to make [Lunatic] easier? If you can't play [Lunatic] then just don't play it. Play [Hard]
That and ONLY that is the purpose of "easy mode" (It is not made for passing over 9000 bpm songs with DT and then getting fame for passing it with "easy mode"). The problem is, it almost changes nothing on [Easy] which makes it almost useless for new players it does even worse with the life refilling because it brings you out of concept especially the new players.
You talk about changing easy mode into "change the beatmap how I like" mode. It has nothing to do with the "easy mode" itself. If you do want a mode that can do so, then do a request for a new mode.
Play [Normal]. Be sure to use mods to make it harder.ziin wrote:
What if there is no Hard, I like the song on a certain AP/HP/OD, and I want to play in multiplayer with those settings without having to upload anything?
You simply can't do it. It's the same as to say, make DT vary from difficulty. [Easy] is way too slow with DT but [Insane] is sometimes way too fast. Also optimise HR and FL for every map.... That's why no one forces you to use the mods provided. You can set it up as much as you like by choosing different difficulties and using mods.ziin wrote:
The whole point of this thread is to change that so that it's easier for every map.
Suggest a request for a new mode then.ziin wrote:
Decreasing AR makes the map harder most of the time. Increasing OD etc... would be stupid but not necessarily pointless. Hard rock makes the map harder by messing with all 4 values and a vertical flip. What if you only want to increase one value?
What about it? People pass this with Halftime to 100% because it has 228 bpm and it is a pretty hard map and Cookiezi has FC with HD. So?... TTTL passed it on [Hard] (Lethal) with DT.ziin wrote:
There's one.
No. And as I said before, hard might not exist. I want to beat lunatic. I can beat lunatic if the AR/difficulty is changed slightly. I won't get top 40 because there's a 0.5x penalty.Neruell wrote:
If you can't play [Lunatic] then just don't play it. Play [Hard]
Don't be dense.Neruell wrote:
Play [Normal]. Be sure to use mods to make it harder.
How does Ozzy's suggestion not do it?Neruell wrote:
You simply can't do it.
You most certainly can not set it up as much as you like. Otherwise I wouldn't be for more customization.Neruell wrote:
You can set it up as much as you like by choosing different difficulties and using mods.
yeah it should be changed to something like thisCard N'FoRcE wrote:
I remember giving my opinion about this in a previous thread and i suggested something like this:
HP Drain: -3 or -4 (+removing the restore health thing)
Circle Size: +1 (maybe?)
Approach Rate : -1 (or maybe no modifications at all)
Overall Difficulty -2.
I thought this would be a layout that could work for hard and Insane maps, the only ones that actually may need the use of a Easy mod (Is there someone who would apply Easy mod to a 1 Star Easy map?). But i still can't think of a Multiplier for it.
Anyway this was a suggestion i made some time ago and i honestly don't think it's the best one.
The only reason i kept it that simple was to avoid having to reinvent the whole mod, but I will give my support if i see/find some good ideas here.
also, easy mod is supposed to be the opposite of hard rock
since hard rock gives +2 to everything save circle size
why not make easy mod give -2 to everything and -1 to circle size?
Topic Starter
hardrock is *1.4
caps at 10
You can see this by putting hardrock on an AR7 map and comparing the speed to an AR10 map (without hardrock). You'll see they are almost the same, but the hardrock will be slightly slower.
7 * 1.4 = 9.8
You can compare by editing a map to AR7 and flipping a map for hardrock, then unflipping it and setting AR10. Take screenshots at the exact same time location and directly compare them. The closer the approach circle is for the next few notes, the slower the approach rate is. Alternatively, you can just believe me, and I can provide screenshots if you really want.
You can also edit circle sizes in the same manner; you will notice that circle size 4 + HR is a bit smaller than circle size 5.
@Shiirn: It doesn't round down, at least not for standard mode. AR7 + HR is definitely faster than AR9.
Also
Circle 4 + HR http://puu.sh/36Hg
Circle 5 (flipped the notes) http://puu.sh/36Hi
Compare them and you can see Circle 4 + HR is slightly smaller.
caps at 10
You can see this by putting hardrock on an AR7 map and comparing the speed to an AR10 map (without hardrock). You'll see they are almost the same, but the hardrock will be slightly slower.
7 * 1.4 = 9.8
You can compare by editing a map to AR7 and flipping a map for hardrock, then unflipping it and setting AR10. Take screenshots at the exact same time location and directly compare them. The closer the approach circle is for the next few notes, the slower the approach rate is. Alternatively, you can just believe me, and I can provide screenshots if you really want.
You can also edit circle sizes in the same manner; you will notice that circle size 4 + HR is a bit smaller than circle size 5.
@Shiirn: It doesn't round down, at least not for standard mode. AR7 + HR is definitely faster than AR9.
Also
Circle 4 + HR http://puu.sh/36Hg
Circle 5 (flipped the notes) http://puu.sh/36Hi
Compare them and you can see Circle 4 + HR is slightly smaller.
This. It multiplies by 1.4 and rounds down, as well. It caps out at 10 and 0 - and 0 is a case in which it will not change it at all since 0x1.4 is 0.JesusYamato wrote:
hardrock is *1.4 and not +2 according to Lybydose.
holy shit so that explains why AR7 HR is so much faster than AR9
Power of EasyMod yo
Is OD*1.4 too with hardrock?Lybydose wrote:
hardrock is *1.4
caps at 10
Everything except circle size *1.4, i believe.Gomo Psivarh wrote:
Is OD*1.4 too with hardrock?Lybydose wrote:
hardrock is *1.4
caps at 10
yap
totally agreed
totally agreed
Thisthisthisthis!OzzyOzrock wrote:
EasyMod should let you choose the diff settings. That's it.
and i support this but not to make us lose acc that will be suck D:
Well support , Easy mode is hard to read yeah (even if i can read sometimes xD) , and sometimes it's impossible on overlaps for examples.
Makar8000 wrote:
Thisthisthisthis!OzzyOzrock wrote:
EasyMod should let you choose the diff settings. That's it.
Yeah in Osu Standards it is harder than all diff mods together sometimes
BUT
It really helps in CtB
(I play all three Play mods)
So I would disagree with removing it ...
but in Osu! Standards
Idk maybe making it a Double mod so it is still in the easy category and in the hard category but without 3 Life Bars and Increasing Points ...
We can call it Giant mod
(nah just kidding)
Yeah and I bump this thread
BUT
It really helps in CtB
(I play all three Play mods)
So I would disagree with removing it ...
but in Osu! Standards
Idk maybe making it a Double mod so it is still in the easy category and in the hard category but without 3 Life Bars and Increasing Points ...
We can call it Giant mod
(nah just kidding)Yeah and I bump this thread
I find Easy mode to be a challenge as well. Half-time is better imo.
I think Easy mode should just lower HP drain. That alone might be pretty helpful :p
I think Easy mode should just lower HP drain. That alone might be pretty helpful :p
Rename "EasyMode" to "EasierMode". The new name shouldn't be misleading since it's just certain part that is made easy, right?Lybydose wrote:
4) Something else?!
I still agree that the approach rate is the main complaint here though.
@ the 3 live system I think that we rewind maybe 10 seconds and tart playing from there (unrated until the next life actually starts) so you have a "flowing" start if you know what I mean...
Necropost.
osz2 is around the corner and a fix for this Easy Mod would be good.
this is what I think
I really want people to consider the current Easy mod not perfect and that it could be so much better.
osz2 is around the corner and a fix for this Easy Mod would be good.
this is what I think
I really want people to consider the current Easy mod not perfect and that it could be so much better.
what do you mean osz2 is around the corner?
did I miss anything???
did I miss anything???
I'm guessing it won't take too long before it's here. Can't be more than a year.My1 wrote:
what do you mean osz2 is around the corner?
did I miss anything???
strange thing is that "Easy" make things harder.
Especially AR IS selected to make the map playable .... so yeah changing the divisor (option 2) seems a good idea
Especially AR IS selected to make the map playable .... so yeah changing the divisor (option 2) seems a good idea
The Easy mod is annoying >_> Why does the circle size have to be so large? It makes it harder for me to see what the hell I'm doing.
So, I'll support this.
So, I'll support this.
Ok ok, support this 
How about reducing the AR by only 1 or 2 points? (i.e. AR 10 -> 9 or 8)HakuNoKaemi wrote:
strange thing is that "Easy" make things harder.
Especially AR IS selected to make the map playable .... so yeah changing the divisor (option 2) seems a good idea
I still think ARs is something people should be able to pick by their own.
OD, HP drain rate and Circle size, they makes stuff easier/harder.
OD, HP drain rate and Circle size, they makes stuff easier/harder.
I agree with having the easy mod being changed as well, considering it makes most maps unplayable.
What I'd like to see for the easy mod:
1) The user is able to select their own AR, rather it be lower or higher. Each person has an approach rate that they perform best on so it would be wise to let the easy mod allow the user to choose their own.
2) Allow the user to choose the circle size. The range of values would range from the default circle size to the circle size seen in the flawed default easy mod for the same map. The reason being is sometimes the size of the hitcircles just become way too obnoxious because of overlap. Setting the max selectable circle size to whatever is used by the current easy mod is for the purposes of previous scores obtained on the easy mod.
3) OD and HP drain rate should be multiplied by some constant
4) The 3 lives thing should be instantaneous as opposed to a sudden stop and restart.
What I'd like to see for the easy mod:
1) The user is able to select their own AR, rather it be lower or higher. Each person has an approach rate that they perform best on so it would be wise to let the easy mod allow the user to choose their own.
2) Allow the user to choose the circle size. The range of values would range from the default circle size to the circle size seen in the flawed default easy mod for the same map. The reason being is sometimes the size of the hitcircles just become way too obnoxious because of overlap. Setting the max selectable circle size to whatever is used by the current easy mod is for the purposes of previous scores obtained on the easy mod.
3) OD and HP drain rate should be multiplied by some constant
4) The 3 lives thing should be instantaneous as opposed to a sudden stop and restart.
ETA is as vague as it ever was. It'll still take a long time, so don't hold your breath.theowest wrote:
I'm guessing it won't take too long before it's here. Can't be more than a year.My1 wrote:
what do you mean osz2 is around the corner?
did I miss anything???
I already told you what I thought about this and LuigiHann conveyed my thoughts pretty effectively. The mod should be aimed at new players of easy maps and that should be it. All of this discussion of customisable parameters suggests that they should be separate options.
Harder maps are designed with a specific approach rate and circle size in mind, so any changes to these would probably break the maps, be it visually or in playability. Besides, how do you think a new player would react if choosing the Easy mod spat a load of options at them? They would shit themselves. It would be much more productive for them to look in the editor or use Half Time. There is no need to overcomplicate this.
In short, Easy wouldn't benefit from any serious overhauls. At most, a slight reduction of all parameters automatically would be the best choice, but that should be it. Keep the knob twiddling away from something that's supposed to make things simple for newbies.
That's a pretty apt description of my response to trying Easy on my first day. I would have loved to see controls... that would have (a) helped and (b) not required trying to figure out the editor on my first day in order to tweak things (I had a good idea what I wanted... Easy just gave way too much of everything). I pretty much warn newbies to avoid Easy, as it's pretty much worthless for newbies... every reasonable use of it I've seen has been by experienced players.D33d wrote:
They would shit themselves.
but as we all know everyone complains about easy in osu!standard but in CtB(Iant control dashing) or taiko(where I really suck) it makes some Hard to play maps really playable sometimes I even get A or S in an insane Map...
Support~ Would be nice if things were user-definable
Devochka_old
I like these ideas so much! User definable AR with easy mod would make sense, though maybe it should be added as "New Easy mod" to maintain the old scores, and maybe increase the bonus depending on how hard the map is. (like when there are a lot of patterns increase bonus, when there are a few, decrease(not sure if possible))Lybydose wrote:
2) Rework Easy mod to actually make things easier. How about letting the player choose their approach rate when Easy is enabled? How about dividing all the difficulty settings by 1.4 instead of 2.0 so it isn't such a massive change, or maybe just subtracting a static number? Reworking the "3 life system" so that the song backs up a couple sections so the player can get back "into the beat" when they resume?
3) Make the current Easy mode a difficulty increasing mod with a score multiplier (lol). It would certainly be harder than Hard Rock, Hidden, and even Flashlight on a lot of maps.
Makar wrote:
Support~ Would be nice if things were user-definable
I'd rather see the Easy mod get user definable AR than if nothing would happen.
The huge hitcircles and the incredibly low OD already make easy mod worth playing... take away the AR that makes it hard to read and it's totally imbalanced...
The reason you say it's "imbalanced" is because of osu's quadratic score system which allows you to beat Cookiezi's nomod score with EasyMod on maps like Shotgun Symphony+. The real flaw here isn't in EasyMod, it's in the score system. If the standard score system was more similar to taiko you wouldn't be able to beat nomod scores on long maps with difficulty-reducted-by-mods FC plays (this would also solve stuff like HTs on Freedom Dive, etc).MillhioreF wrote:
The huge hitcircles and the incredibly low OD already make easy mod worth playing... take away the AR that makes it hard to read and it's totally imbalanced...
I'd love to suggest to already fix the score system in osu but this will most likely never happen. :\
I actually really love thisDevochka wrote:
I like these ideas so much! User definable AR with easy mod would make sense, though maybe it should be added as "New Easy mod" to maintain the old scores, and maybe increase the bonus depending on how hard the map is. (like when there are a lot of patterns increase bonus, when there are a few, decrease(not sure if possible))Lybydose wrote:
2) Rework Easy mod to actually make things easier. How about letting the player choose their approach rate when Easy is enabled? How about dividing all the difficulty settings by 1.4 instead of 2.0 so it isn't such a massive change, or maybe just subtracting a static number? Reworking the "3 life system" so that the song backs up a couple sections so the player can get back "into the beat" when they resume?
3) Make the current Easy mode a difficulty increasing mod with a score multiplier (lol). It would certainly be harder than Hard Rock, Hidden, and even Flashlight on a lot of maps.
To be honest, I was thinking something like "soft rock" mod or something XD.
that was what I once thought. A mirrored hard rock. It was like hard rock but it made things easier instead of harder. However, nobody liked the idea.BeatofIke wrote:
To be honest, I was thinking something like "soft rock" mod or something XD.
User definable and 50% score reduction sounds good to me.
I once supported this, but... I think this just opens up a whole new venue of beating scores (everyone's gonna make huge circles, OD0 and unchanged AR) and get FC on crazy maps like airman and big black without too much problem D:
I suggest to disable easy mod on only maps with already large hit circles. It does make the map easier by enlarging the circles, when the map originally have tiny circles.
Maybe a penalty of 90% would be better?MillhioreF wrote:
I once supported this, but... I think this just opens up a whole new venue of beating scores (everyone's gonna make huge circles, OD0 and unchanged AR) and get FC on crazy maps like airman and big black without too much problem D:
Nah, it's not THAT bad... either make it scale to how much you change the settings or give it a static 0.40x rate or something.Saten wrote:
Maybe a penalty of 90% would be better?
Actually, I'm in favor of making this a new mod, the "main" Easy mod, while the old one gets renamed but stays the same (as an alt mod to Easy, like Perfect/Nightcore)
You need to consider other play modes using the easy mod. I completely agree that it makes most songs harder for osu!standard, but for CTB, Taiko, and osu!mania, It really does make most of the maps easier. therefore I don't agree with getting rid of the easy mod completely, or giving it a multiplyer. The only solution is some sort of your 2nd feature request in my opinion.
Semi-support?
All my love ~<3
Semi-support?
All my love ~<3
ann_old
This'd be fantastic.MillhioreF wrote:
Nah, it's not THAT bad... either make it scale to how much you change the settings or give it a static 0.40x rate or something.
Actually, I'm in favor of making this a new mod, the "main" Easy mod, while the old one gets renamed but stays the same (as an alt mod to Easy, like Perfect/Nightcore)
I'm going to have to be "iffy" on this one... Half/Semi Support?
I wonder how this is going to affect other games modes...
I only play Taiko and everyone here is only arguing about one game mode without taking the others into consideration.. In Taiko we don't get the "3 life system" or the larger circles because they aren't needed.
As a Taiko player, I believe that the easy mod should be broken up into AR reduction and reduced HP drain because sometimes there's only portion of easy mod that we ACTUALLY need and the other is just making it overkill. Maybe, this could only be made for and only select-able in Taiko mode seeing as something like this would only be useful in Taiko.
They could be called:
Slow Learner -- Reduced AR
Painless -- Reduced HP Drain
For example, let's say Billy is playing a really hard map with complex rhythms in Taiko mode however the map creator made the map with AR4 and set the slider velocity pretty low making the map slow and easy to read. Well Billy only needs more "forgiving" HP drain so that he has a better chance at beating the map but Billy can only use the easy mod to get reduced HP drain and this includes reduced AR as well. Billy takes a gamble and ATTEMPTS to play the beatmap however Billy realizes that the rhythms aren't even readable anymore and look like a "smashed up piece of shit". In the end Billy fails the map and quits playing osu! forever....
FIN
I wonder how this is going to affect other games modes...
I only play Taiko and everyone here is only arguing about one game mode without taking the others into consideration.. In Taiko we don't get the "3 life system" or the larger circles because they aren't needed.
As a Taiko player, I believe that the easy mod should be broken up into AR reduction and reduced HP drain because sometimes there's only portion of easy mod that we ACTUALLY need and the other is just making it overkill. Maybe, this could only be made for and only select-able in Taiko mode seeing as something like this would only be useful in Taiko.
They could be called:
Slow Learner -- Reduced AR
Painless -- Reduced HP Drain
For example, let's say Billy is playing a really hard map with complex rhythms in Taiko mode however the map creator made the map with AR4 and set the slider velocity pretty low making the map slow and easy to read. Well Billy only needs more "forgiving" HP drain so that he has a better chance at beating the map but Billy can only use the easy mod to get reduced HP drain and this includes reduced AR as well. Billy takes a gamble and ATTEMPTS to play the beatmap however Billy realizes that the rhythms aren't even readable anymore and look like a "smashed up piece of shit". In the end Billy fails the map and quits playing osu! forever....
FIN
Lul this is so effin true
I've almost ignored Easy mod but after this thread I kept testing things on it...
Obligatory bump due to duplicate posts.
Deleting EZ mode is a stupid idea.
How many EZ scores would be deleted? If they weren't deleted then many newer players would call unfair on the older players being able to FC tag4 maps with EZ mode and getting a top 40.
We should only change the cs and the ar tbh.
How many EZ scores would be deleted? If they weren't deleted then many newer players would call unfair on the older players being able to FC tag4 maps with EZ mode and getting a top 40.
We should only change the cs and the ar tbh.
For nowadays in my opinion the ez mod should decrease the life drain and give a second chance only.
That actually makes the map easier and not a totally different map!
That actually makes the map easier and not a totally different map!
IMO for administrative's sake, It's a lot easier to leave the old easy mod alone and make a new "Free Play" instead.
In "Free Play" you get x0 multiplier, in exchange for full customisation of CS, AR & OD.
dunno if this is worth the effort though. Personally I don't use Easy at all .
In "Free Play" you get x0 multiplier, in exchange for full customisation of CS, AR & OD.
dunno if this is worth the effort though. Personally I don't use Easy at all .
@Lily-kun
@Hanyuu
@Oinari-Sama
i agreed with this three :3
@Hanyuu
@Oinari-Sama
i agreed with this three :3
You forgot OD, I guess?Hanyuu wrote:
For nowadays in my opinion the ez mod should decrease the life drain and give a second chance only.
I'm suggesting about AR cap or something, instead of halving the map's AR settings. Like AR8~AR10 will be lowered to AR7 while the others stay as is. (or perhaps cap the lowest AR too?)
Oh yeah i forgot about OD lolWinshley wrote:
You forgot OD, I guess?Hanyuu wrote:
For nowadays in my opinion the ez mod should decrease the life drain and give a second chance only.
I'm suggesting about AR cap or something, instead of halving the map's AR settings. Like AR8~AR10 will be lowered to AR7 while the others stay as is. (or perhaps cap the lowest AR too?)
The change to AR seems reasonable too to me for example if a player cant play a beatmap with AR 10 they could put the easy mode to play it with AR7or8 like you said.
Hm do you mean another unranked mode? multiply by 0 is 0. Well free play sounds like for testing purposes only and could be done with editing the map, since its unranked it will make no difference anyways. If its a ranked mode its too abuseable lol.Oinari-sama wrote:
IMO for administrative's sake, It's a lot easier to leave the old easy mod alone and make a new "Free Play" instead.
In "Free Play" you get x0 multiplier, in exchange for full customisation of CS, AR & OD.
dunno if this is worth the effort though. Personally I don't use Easy at all .
[@Hanyuu]
Yeah essentially another unranked mode, you've read my intention correct.
I know one can just go into editor and tweak the settings, but having an option to get that instant change while in game will be handy for training purposes (eg see how far you can push yourself).
Yeah essentially another unranked mode, you've read my intention correct.
I know one can just go into editor and tweak the settings, but having an option to get that instant change while in game will be handy for training purposes (eg see how far you can push yourself).
Oinari-sama wrote:
IMO for administrative's sake, It's a lot easier to leave the old easy mod alone and make a new "Free Play" instead.
In "Free Play" you get x0 multiplier, in exchange for full customisation of CS, AR & OD.
dunno if this is worth the effort though. Personally I don't use Easy at all .
You know that it's *technically* possible to get ×0.00 multiplier and still ranked with some score, don't you?
The multiplier only multiplies your score when you starts building up combos. Having ×0.00 multiplier means that you don't get combo bonuses, you get only pure hit scores (300, 100, 50, 30 (slider start/repeat/end), 10 (slider tick), 100 (spin score), and 1000 (spin bonus score)). This is where the score you get from AutoPilot and Relax mods come from.
Anyways, that can be done by making a duplicate of the map with customized settings, so I'm not sure if this is a good idea or not.
You know what...I didn't notice until you brought it upWinshley wrote:
Oinari-sama wrote:
IMO for administrative's sake, It's a lot easier to leave the old easy mod alone and make a new "Free Play" instead.
In "Free Play" you get x0 multiplier, in exchange for full customisation of CS, AR & OD.
dunno if this is worth the effort though. Personally I don't use Easy at all .You know that it's *technically* possible to get ×0.00 multiplier and still ranked with some score, don't you?The multiplier only multiplies your score when you starts building up combos. Having ×0.00 multiplier means that you don't get combo bonuses, you get only pure hit scores (300, 100, 50, 30 (slider start/repeat/end), 10 (slider tick), 100 (spin score), and 1000 (spin bonus score)). This is where the score you get from AutoPilot and Relax mods come from.
Anyways, that can be done by making a duplicate of the map with customized settings, so I'm not sure if this is a good idea or not.
I think your describing something akin to an unranked practice mode.Oinari-sama wrote:
IMO for administrative's sake, It's a lot easier to leave the old easy mod alone and make a new "Free Play" instead.
In "Free Play" you get x0 multiplier, in exchange for full customisation of CS, AR & OD.
dunno if this is worth the effort though. Personally I don't use Easy at all .
While lurking around the forums I found an idea about ipmenting a metronome...
and then I thought... you know what would be cool?
A practice mode that allows us to customize the health, circle size, and where to start as an unranked mode.
Yes this is going a bit tangent but the thing is, I agree with most people when they say that reworking an already done mod might be more troublesome then it is worth. So maybe a practice mod that allows this options and subsequently allow us to practice certain parts with guides and stuff may allow us to forgo easy mode and maybe even conquer hard mode and other mods?
Bump, easy mod makes no sense at the moment.
wvwn the big black even u use easy mod it keeps getting harder and harder
BRBP wrote:
Bump, easy mod makes no sense at the moment.
EasyMod makes sense, the only problem with it is the name. It should be renamed from EasyMod into something else because the current name does not represent the nature of this mod. (at least on osu!standard. for other game modes it might be fine)
Maybe call it LowApproach mod? Or something like that.
Maybe call it LowApproach mod? Or something like that.
Easy Mode is fun (in some maps) but seriously i think should get renamed
rename the mod
add new mod like the often suggested Soft rock
add new mod with customizable diff settings .... what mm201 talked about in the custom AR thread
and MillhioreF will stay happy
and me too ... Easy mod is awesome imo >: I understand the hate though ^^
add new mod like the often suggested Soft rock
add new mod with customizable diff settings .... what mm201 talked about in the custom AR thread
and MillhioreF will stay happy
and me too ... Easy mod is awesome imo >: I understand the hate though ^^
Personally I dislike the Mod but it seems that many people find the fun of it. However I wouldn't recommened to remove it. I mean, sorry but we can't remove things just because they aren't working for us like they should (in case it is something which is filled with Bugs i.e. Favorite A/B but nvm) but we should find another possible solutions.
From my Side the CS decrease have to be fixed. That it decrease i.e CS5 to 3 is just nonsense. The issue is that some enjoy lower CS and then other higher. About the CS itself I would say Easy should decrease the CS for one, not for two (or even three). About the AR I think it works fine since it decrease it for two (I guess?) And the Idea of having two Tries instead of three (how Hanyuu suggested) would be better imo. I cannot really judge the OD.
However at all, we need a real Easy Mode but keeping the current Easy Mode should be done.
From my Side the CS decrease have to be fixed. That it decrease i.e CS5 to 3 is just nonsense. The issue is that some enjoy lower CS and then other higher. About the CS itself I would say Easy should decrease the CS for one, not for two (or even three). About the AR I think it works fine since it decrease it for two (I guess?) And the Idea of having two Tries instead of three (how Hanyuu suggested) would be better imo. I cannot really judge the OD.
However at all, we need a real Easy Mode but keeping the current Easy Mode should be done.
Nothing wrong with easy mod, if you can't play the map then play a different one that has an easier difficulty.
It does a good job of making easier difficulties even easier and as such has it's place.
It does a good job of making easier difficulties even easier and as such has it's place.
current easy mod already is based on original settings. Honestly I doubt EZ mod will get changed.
Support! Decision #2
i disagree with this suggestion. i always considered the term "Easy" to be a felicitous choice of words and rather amusing. in a sense, its half time in reverse. half time only makes crazy bpm high ar maps easier, as many tag4's don't have a single half-time play to be seen but are often overloaded with EZ. Likewise, you don't see many people hitting image material/freedom dive with EZ...
tl;dr ez succeeds where ht fails, and ht succeeds where ez fails. they compliment eachother well.
A rewording is the most I'd be willing to settle for but even that is unnecessary.
tl;dr ez succeeds where ht fails, and ht succeeds where ez fails. they compliment eachother well.
A rewording is the most I'd be willing to settle for but even that is unnecessary.
Nice bump
I guess we could simply keep EZ mod and do a 2nd mod that let's you change the settings of the map yourself.
Of course you could increase the difficulty with AR,OD,HP10 CS7 but the mod should decrease score multiplier even though the map got harder
I personally enjoy the current EZ mod very much, I think it is fun trying to read that incredible mess on your screen where everything overlaps
I guess we could simply keep EZ mod and do a 2nd mod that let's you change the settings of the map yourself.
Of course you could increase the difficulty with AR,OD,HP10 CS7 but the mod should decrease score multiplier even though the map got harder
I personally enjoy the current EZ mod very much, I think it is fun trying to read that incredible mess on your screen where everything overlaps
nxthxn_old
That's illogical.nxthxn wrote:
Easy mod a Difficulty Increase mod.
How does that make sense though? It makes most maps easier...nxthxn wrote:
Couldn't agree more.
I would make Easy mod a Difficulty Increase mod.
I think there was no reason for this dead thread to be bumped, Easy should stay as it always has