Some people say that is unrankable.Luna wrote:
Then you silence the ticks. They still make musical sense, if you just dislike the tick hitsound that's no reason to remove ticks altogether.Natteke wrote:
What if I don't think it sounds nice? Man, this is so subjective
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Tick rate 0.x
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Topic Starter
In fact, having 0.5 tick rate sometimes works better than 0 and 1 on easier diffs, because they have a slower pace. Removing ticks in those cases entirely would be kind of odd in cases where they still fit something, but where having 1 would be too fast 
However, having just tick rate 0 would be fine
especially when it got denied before.
Also I knew I had heard it was unrankable before. Apparently you can silence ticks as long as the rest of the slider isn't silenced, but as I said I would rather not discuss this here = =//
However, having just tick rate 0 would be fine
especially when it got denied before.pieguy1372, please be honest: Do you just not like ticks at all?I'm fine with ticks, but I think they're misused most of the time. I made this thread because I figured that the community would be for keeping it so that it could be useful in some cases, and if you consider only normal users it's 5 for, 3 against currently (and I'm quite sure many more would find it to be useful, as well)
If the map dominantly follows 1/1 patterns, tick 1 has to make sense because ticks are weaker elements than circles.If there is a part that does not follow 1/1, and is slower and softer than the rest of the song, it will seem out of place in that part.
Also I knew I had heard it was unrankable before. Apparently you can silence ticks as long as the rest of the slider isn't silenced, but as I said I would rather not discuss this here = =//
Add an example here: imagine you're mapping a Easy/Normal for Evans, what would you do for the 3/4 part?pieguy1372 wrote:
If the map dominantly follows 1/1 patterns, tick 1 has to make sense because ticks are weaker elements than circles.If there is a part that does not follow 1/1, and is slower and softer than the rest of the song, it will seem out of place in that part.
NatsumeRin wrote:
Add an example here: imagine you're mapping a Easy/Normal for Evans, what would you do for the 3/4 part?
That's what i would doSakura Hana wrote:
Enphasis on "make sense" for isntance i once was making a mapset in which i required the use of 3/4 triplets, since the music holds and enphasizes those 3/4 triplets a slider would work out nicely, however, since for the most part the most constant instrument was going at 1/2 rythm i was using slider tick rate 2, and the 3/4 sliders had a repeat for the triplet, so it would create a tick very close to the repeat as soon as it reached 1/2, to counter this i silenced ONLY those ticks on those sliders so it wouldn't sound awkward.
So yes i do agree with silencing sliderticks as long as they make sense with the song, if they indeed do clash with the way the slider in question is mapped.
Read up. It's not.Blue Dragon wrote:
Some people say that is unrankable.
Please explain. I have yet to see a map with its tick rate set too high. These almost always get modded and fixed. (For some reason, the reverse isn't true nearly as often.)pieguy1372 wrote:
I'm fine with ticks, but I think they're misused most of the time.
Not everyone views this thread. Your tendency to reject MAT/BAT in your counting is worrying, since they are the players which the community has identified as the most capable modders/mappers with the highest standards.pieguy1372 wrote:
and if you consider only normal users it's 5 for, 3 against currently (and I'm quite sure many more would find it to be useful, as well)
If there is a part that does not follow 1/1, the BPM is wrong. Following a beat is an elementary musical concept which every song has to follow.pieguy1372 wrote:
If there is a part that does not follow 1/1, and is slower and softer than the rest of the song, it will seem out of place in that part.
Then stop talking about it in here?? Create a thread if you must.pieguy1372 wrote:
Apparently you can silence ticks as long as the rest of the slider isn't silenced, but as I said I would rather not discuss this here = =//
Tick rate being a property of the music, not the map difficulty, you would continue using the tick rate you used on Hard and Expert.NatsumeRin wrote:
Add an example here: imagine you're mapping a Easy/Normal for Evans, what would you do for the 3/4 part?
This. Often the reason the ticks clash for one specific part is because you didn't halve the BPM for that part when the music supports it. In other words, if the percussion suddenly has a beat on every other white tick instead of every white tick, then you need to halve the BPM for that specific part so the tick rate's correct for that part (remember to also add an inherited timing section to set the right slider velocity!).mm201 wrote:
If there is a part that does not follow 1/1, the BPM is wrong. Following a beat is an elementary musical concept which every song has to follow.
And before you ask, yes, this is rankable, as long as the percussion supports halving the BPM for that part.
Topic Starter
Please explain. I have yet to see a map with its tick rate set too high. These almost always get modded and fixed. (For some reason, the reverse isn't true nearly as often.)Often, I see maps with tick rate 2 where IMO it doesn't fit (in fact, I've only seen one map where tick rate 2 was used well IMO). However, that's a different subject entirely, and it's just my opinion...
Not everyone views this thread. Your tendency to reject MAT/BAT in your counting is worrying, since they are the players which the community has identified as the most capable modders/mappers with the highest standards.MAT/BATs are more likely to view this thread, and we already know that most of them supported removing it, the idea here is to focus on the community's opinions
Also, I'm quite sure there are a lot of people who support tick rate 0.5 (and/or 0), who haven't viewed this thread.
If there is a part that does not follow 1/1, the BPM is wrong. Following a beat is an elementary musical concept which every song has to follow.So if there's a song that quite obviously has the right BPM, but it has 4 beats with a pause or a whole section that has a slower pace or feeling? Changing the BPM for that really isn't correct...
Tick rate being a property of the music, not the map difficulty, you would continue using the tick rate you used on Hard and Expert.It really is not a property of just the music... the feeling of the map is also important, having too many ticks can create too much of a fast feeling in easy/normal diffs >.>
There was one map I made that was a 200BPM Demetori song and I used tick rate 2 along with 2/1 sliders to create a fast feeling, even though the "correct" tick rate under your definition was 1, and it played quite nice (though now I would use other methods to create a fast feeling = =) because it gave a fast feeling...
Cheer-no
My guess is that a lot of people share the same opinion I have - that is, ambivalence. I'm slightly against it personally, not because I think there's very much application to it, but because I think it's silly to remove a feature that's already in and isn't broken. (You can get tick rate 8 via osuhax, why not remove that too while you're at it?) It's not much of an opinion though, I could care less if it was removed.pieguy1372 wrote:
Also, I'm quite sure there are a lot of people who support tick rate 0.5 (and/or 0), who haven't viewed this thread.
ok then, based on this assumption, let's use tick 1 for all diffs and find what happens.mm201 wrote:
Tick rate being a property of the music, not the map difficulty, you would continue using the tick rate you used on Hard and Expert.NatsumeRin wrote:
Add an example here: imagine you're mapping a Easy/Normal for Evans, what would you do for the 3/4 part?
Evans is a famous song and i just think we should all know it, but still, in case of any misunderstanding, let's put that 3/4 part's beat here, its:
O..O..O..O..O.O.O..O..O..O..O.O.O
in a Hard/Insane diff, it's easy to just avoid using any sliders longer than 1/1, (also the beats calls you to do so naturally), so maybe you all get something like this, it's totally fine with tick rate 1.
But in a Easy/Normal, i'm pretty sure you can't use 3/4 sliders all the way, then 3/2 becomes a nice beat you could choose, and let's say it may like this:
Let's compare them then:
O..O..O..O..O.O.O..O..O..O..O.O.O ---- original beats.
O...o.O.o...O...O...o.O.o...O...O ----o is the tick
It's totally out of place and not musically correct. Also it's easy to imagine tick rate 2, even worse.
So for songs like Evans, especially in Easy/Normal, ticks would be just annoying. Silence them may help a bit, but they still shows in an incorrect place with incorrect beats. Why not let mappers just use tick 0 for such cases and you don't really lose anything plz? Or you mean musical incorrect is just fine with the ticks?
In that example the ticks will still land on 1/1s and not sound too bad. Also, the ticks would even out if you used tick 2 
serious?RandomJibberish wrote:
In that example the ticks will still land on 1/1s and not sound too bad
Yes? The ticks would follow a constant 1/1 beat which is also in or implied by the music at that point.
You're overmapping now.RandomJibberish wrote:
In that example the ticks will still land on 1/1s and not sound too bad.
I think this whole issue gets down to "pleasant to the ear or not".
NatsumeRin's opinion is correct if you place higher priority on "how the map plays the hitsounds out".
RandomJibberish's opinion is correct if you view solely on the musical theories.
So I think the issue now is: "Should acoustic appeal be overridden by musical theories, or vice versa."
NatsumeRin's opinion is correct if you place higher priority on "how the map plays the hitsounds out".
RandomJibberish's opinion is correct if you view solely on the musical theories.
So I think the issue now is: "Should acoustic appeal be overridden by musical theories, or vice versa."
Yes to tick rate 0.5, for the double BPM song that needed tick rate 1 with normal BPM, maybe allow but discourage tick rate 0.25 as i can provide decent in the 0.5 double BPMs cases.
No to 0 tick rate, there are no song that tick rate 0 fit. And if you find using that yourself, you are probeably doung something wrong.
Section Variable tick rates are the best correction to the problem but they don't want to introduce them.
No to 0 tick rate, there are no song that tick rate 0 fit. And if you find using that yourself, you are probeably doung something wrong.
Section Variable tick rates are the best correction to the problem but they don't want to introduce them.
This is what leads me to believe you (and tick 0.5 users, more generally) just plain don't like ticks. I've found tick rate 2 is virtually never misused, because the BAT are very good at catching and stopping a too-high tick rate.pieguy1372 wrote:
Often, I see maps with tick rate 2 where IMO it doesn't fit (in fact, I've only seen one map where tick rate 2 was used well IMO). However, that's a different subject entirely, and it's just my opinion...
Simply put, you have a different understanding of how ticks work than myself and many of the BAT. Specifically, you think ticks must represent some prominent musical pattern. They don't. If there's a prominent musical pattern, you should use a hitcircle or a slider head/rebound. Ticks specifically go in places where there isn't a prominent beat and they work like a metronome, marking out the smallest recurrent musical division.
If you find it unpleasing when ticks are used in this way, I really think you should set a skin to silence them, since many maps will keep on coming out which use ticks in this way, in no small part because it's the way the game was designed.
If the game was designed to use ticks in the way you want to use them, they wouldn't be used for scoring.
Most map actually fit tick rate 2, actually. a piano,violin or similiar instrument is mostly adapt to follow ticks. (if you think ticks are drum, you're doing something wrong).
I can SUPPORT 0.5, but Won't support 0
I can SUPPORT 0.5, but Won't support 0
1. Many of the BAT? glad to hear some names. honestly saying, in the previous tick rate 0.5 thread, i also find many of the BAT disagree of remove tick rate 0.5 (you could say it works as tick rate 0)mm201 wrote:
Simply put, you have a different understanding of how ticks work than myself and many of the BAT. Specifically, you think ticks must represent some prominent musical pattern. They don't.
2. You also said "slidertick is an important feedback for players". An important feedback in a music game, however, doesn't represent anything related to the music, things probably go wrong here plz?
Also, increase slidertick for getting more score is unacceptable if i don't remember it wrong.
Let's just put it this way. The only BAT whose tick rate choice I've disagreed with was Alace. Possibly Andrea and Card, but that was always 1 vs 2.
Sliderticks are "important feedback" just like a metronome is important feedback for a piano player, even if the song they're playing isn't purely 1/1s.
Sliderticks are "important feedback" just like a metronome is important feedback for a piano player, even if the song they're playing isn't purely 1/1s.
Topic Starter
Specifically, you think ticks must represent some prominent musical pattern. They don't. If there's a prominent musical pattern, you should use a hitcircle or a slider head/rebound. Ticks specifically go in places where there isn't a prominent beat and they work like a metronome, marking out the smallest recurrent musical division.
Sliderticks are "important feedback" just like a metronome is important feedback for a piano player, even if the song they're playing isn't purely 1/1s.This is just making a generalization that is about something that is too specific to be generalized. I don't know about you, but I and many others think that maps should be based on the flow and feeling of the song, which has slow parts, soft parts, pauses, etc... You can't force a constant beat (sound, not unit of time) at every point where a slider is used, the song doesn't always call for it. There might be a pause, a hold, or soft or slow feeling there that makes a constant beat too loud, or too fast. A map shouldn't have a "constant beat" if the song doesn't either. When there's something and it doesn't fit the song, there's something seriously wrong.
Before you say about "creating a better gaming experience", if there's something that doesn't fit the song, it creates a worse experience. For most people, hearing something that doesn't fit is worse than not having a constant metronome going.
If the game was designed to use ticks in the way you want to use them, they wouldn't be used for scoring.That's like saying you should use a beat at every 1/2 for the sake of "keeping a constant metronome" instead of where they fit the song >.>
since many maps will keep on coming out which use ticks in this way, in no small part because it's the way the game was designed.most maps I play do not use ticks in that way, and they play a lot better than maps that do. You can't just say "it's wrong to use ticks in this way" because a lot of people find it better to use ticks in this way.
CNF: I don't see a reason to remove something that didn't hurt anyone in 4 years.
deepsea: A rule should be no exception and I can't count how many maps work good with 0.5 tick rate.
ztrot: Yeah I agree I really don't see a need to remove tick rate 0.5 but then again I didn't see a reason to remove catmall sliders
Danggard: there is no real problem with keeping 0.5 as option. I really don't get why you want it removed so hardly...
Ephemeral: i've seen nothing conclusive for total removal of 0.5 tick rate from this thread. keep it as it is and address usage of it on a case by case basis.
and Alace and Andrea as you mentioned.
on the other side you could count the amount of people that totally against tick rate 0.5. it's LESS than the "str 0.5 supporters". SO PLZ DON'T SAY MANY, IT'S LIKE YOU'RE TRYING TO FOOL US.
And to some of the songs, it's not "not purely 1/1s", it's "purely not 1/1s", and how could you find that really fit? (still Evans for example?)
deepsea: A rule should be no exception and I can't count how many maps work good with 0.5 tick rate.
ztrot: Yeah I agree I really don't see a need to remove tick rate 0.5 but then again I didn't see a reason to remove catmall sliders
Danggard: there is no real problem with keeping 0.5 as option. I really don't get why you want it removed so hardly...
Ephemeral: i've seen nothing conclusive for total removal of 0.5 tick rate from this thread. keep it as it is and address usage of it on a case by case basis.
and Alace and Andrea as you mentioned.
on the other side you could count the amount of people that totally against tick rate 0.5. it's LESS than the "str 0.5 supporters". SO PLZ DON'T SAY MANY, IT'S LIKE YOU'RE TRYING TO FOOL US.
And to some of the songs, it's not "not purely 1/1s", it's "purely not 1/1s", and how could you find that really fit? (still Evans for example?)
"I don't care" != "I use it". Those quotes from ztrot and Ephemeral represent indifference on the issue. ztrot uses the correct tick rate in any maps of his I've modded. I haven't seen an Ephemeral map in ages.
The decision to remove it wasn't mine anyway.
At the time, the opinion I expressed was that it was a useless setting, but not worth the drama removing it would cause. I would have kept Catmull sliders and other useless things as well.
I don't think it suits any songs. You do. Neither of us are peppy, so neither of us can do anything about it. Why not drop this?
The decision to remove it wasn't mine anyway.
At the time, the opinion I expressed was that it was a useless setting, but not worth the drama removing it would cause. I would have kept Catmull sliders and other useless things as well.
I don't think it suits any songs. You do. Neither of us are peppy, so neither of us can do anything about it. Why not drop this?
What's a "correct tick rate"?
A general solution for such cases is to leave things there and see what would happen.mm201 wrote:
I don't think it suits any songs. You do.
Because it's useful sometimes, and we would like to show peppy that.mm201 wrote:
Neither of us are peppy, so neither of us can do anything about it. Why not drop this?
the one that divides the beat intuitively.Natteke wrote:
What's a "correct tick rate"?
Well here's a little thought:
Technically if a BPM is right, all slider ticks should land in the correct spots due to appearing on each 1/1, musically if there's an instrument that makes you start a slider on a red tick, then the music will "probably" be right for the slidertick on a red tick as well, if it's not, then there's 2 possibilities, 1) Either the slider itself doesnt fit with the music (i see people use sliders for everything instead of what their original intention is for >_>) or 2) The slider feels correct, but the tick feels out of place, then you can go ahead and silence that single slider tick so it doesnt sound out of place.
Another situation is when a whole section, doesnt feel right at all, then go ahead and ask yourself if it's because the beats seem to be landing on red ticks and sounding awkward, if that's the case you might need a metronome reset instead of a 0.5 tick rate, or is the song so soft that you cant hear any beats on 1/1? assuming the song is still at that same bpm, the sliderticks will be correct, and of course low volume on sliderticks should accompany them just like the rest of the hitsounds, otherwise you might as well use a red line to halve the bpm, if the main beat isnt really landing on a 1/1 rythm but rather a 2/1 rythm instead.
Next situation is when there's an instrument that's faster than the main beat, in this case, normally the use of tick rate 2 is correct, with the exception of swing songs, if there are sections in which said instrument isnt faster, you might consider if the instrument goes at a 1/2 rate for a considerably high enough ammount of time compared to not sounding at a 1/2 rate, and then if that's the case, you might be better off silencing some sliderticks for the softer section, otherwise might as well switch to tick rate 1 instead, in this case also all possible options from the previous situations apply, but in this case being 3/4 sliders rather than 3/2 and obv slower bpm sections on the song.
fwiw i dont see any spot where a 0.5 would fit unless you're actually doubling your bpm already, which is already wrong, and if you dont like the sound of sliderticks, just as mm201 mentioned, play with a skin that silences them, but not enforce it onto players that actually do like it.
Technically if a BPM is right, all slider ticks should land in the correct spots due to appearing on each 1/1, musically if there's an instrument that makes you start a slider on a red tick, then the music will "probably" be right for the slidertick on a red tick as well, if it's not, then there's 2 possibilities, 1) Either the slider itself doesnt fit with the music (i see people use sliders for everything instead of what their original intention is for >_>) or 2) The slider feels correct, but the tick feels out of place, then you can go ahead and silence that single slider tick so it doesnt sound out of place.
Another situation is when a whole section, doesnt feel right at all, then go ahead and ask yourself if it's because the beats seem to be landing on red ticks and sounding awkward, if that's the case you might need a metronome reset instead of a 0.5 tick rate, or is the song so soft that you cant hear any beats on 1/1? assuming the song is still at that same bpm, the sliderticks will be correct, and of course low volume on sliderticks should accompany them just like the rest of the hitsounds, otherwise you might as well use a red line to halve the bpm, if the main beat isnt really landing on a 1/1 rythm but rather a 2/1 rythm instead.
Next situation is when there's an instrument that's faster than the main beat, in this case, normally the use of tick rate 2 is correct, with the exception of swing songs, if there are sections in which said instrument isnt faster, you might consider if the instrument goes at a 1/2 rate for a considerably high enough ammount of time compared to not sounding at a 1/2 rate, and then if that's the case, you might be better off silencing some sliderticks for the softer section, otherwise might as well switch to tick rate 1 instead, in this case also all possible options from the previous situations apply, but in this case being 3/4 sliders rather than 3/2 and obv slower bpm sections on the song.
fwiw i dont see any spot where a 0.5 would fit unless you're actually doubling your bpm already, which is already wrong, and if you dont like the sound of sliderticks, just as mm201 mentioned, play with a skin that silences them, but not enforce it onto players that actually do like it.
0.5 have sense too actually.mm201 wrote:
Let's just put it this way. The only BAT whose tick rate choice I've disagreed with was Alace. Possibly Andrea and Card, but that was always 1 vs 2.
Sliderticks are "important feedback" just like a metronome is important feedback for a piano player, even if the song they're playing isn't purely 1/1s.
Maybe you have a double BPM map that need 0.5?
The nonsense part is the tick rate 0.
By far, tick rate isn't fastidious, but if the song call for a tick rate 2, why use 0.5?, like the inverse, a song call for a tick rate 0.5, why use 2?
The tick rate should be the one more consistent alone the map ( so using less Tick rate for easier or viceversa is nosense, the reason is "i am following alpha/beta/gamma")
otherwise you might as well use a red line to halve the bpm, if the main beat isnt really landing on a 1/1 rythm but rather a 2/1 rythm instead.It can't be done, Sakura, it contradict
doubling your bpm already, which is already wronghalving and doubling bpm can't be done by using different red sections, but can be done on all the song
It can, if the BPM really slow down to half you are allowed to use a red line for it, you're only not allowed to alter slider speed with red lines.HakuNoKaemi wrote:
otherwise you might as well use a red line to halve the bpm, if the main beat isnt really landing on a 1/1 rythm but rather a 2/1 rythm instead.It can't be done, Sakura, it contradict
Topic Starter
Technically if a BPM is right, all slider ticks should land in the correct spots due to appearing on each 1/1, musically if there's an instrument that makes you start a slider on a red tick, then the music will "probably" be right for the slidertick on a red tick as well, if it's not, then there's 2 possibilities, 1) Either the slider itself doesnt fit with the music (i see people use sliders for everything instead of what their original intention is for >_>) or 2) The slider feels correct, but the tick feels out of place, then you can go ahead and silence that single slider tick so it doesnt sound out of place.1. what's wrong with just having no tick there, if it doesn't fit?
2. if you silence the slider-slide, you can't do that (but I plan to dispute this later too
)Another situation is when a whole section, doesnt feel right at all, then go ahead and ask yourself if it's because the beats seem to be landing on red ticks and sounding awkward, if that's the case you might need a metronome reset instead of a 0.5 tick rate, or is the song so soft that you cant hear any beats on 1/1? assuming the song is still at that same bpm, the sliderticks will be correct, and of course low volume on sliderticks should accompany them just like the rest of the hitsounds, otherwise you might as well use a red line to halve the bpm, if the main beat isnt really landing on a 1/1 rythm but rather a 2/1 rythm instead.serious? Using a red line to half the BPM even though the rest of the song has the same BPM is not right because it's just one slow part, it's not a whole different section. Using a red line to set a new offset isn't correct because it's just for one section and the song is still following the old offset, and it won't even make a difference because the sliders and thus the ticks will still be placed in the same position.
You, mm201, and others seem to think that a <1 tick rate will only fit in a 0.5x bpm section, when in fact, it will sometimes fit with a 1.0x bpm section. Please just don't assume that your way of using ticks is the only one that makes sense = =
fwiw i dont see any spot where a 0.5 would fit unless you're actually doubling your bpm already, which is already wrong, and if you dont like the sound of sliderticks, just as mm201 mentioned, play with a skin that silences them, but not enforce it onto players that actually do like it.that's not the problem, and also quit making it seem like we're insane. The problem is that there are some cases where even using tick rate 1 is too high.
It can, if the BPM really slow down to half you are allowed to use a red line for it, you're only not allowed to alter slider speed with red lines.well then, why are "hold sliders" banned? Technically there's a very slow pace in a part where they are used, so won't a 0.5x bpm + a 0.5x inherited section (or even a 0.25x bpm) fit?
I don't have a problem with changing the BPM using red lines when the BPM changes.
Please use the thread I started to discuss this, but stop trying to veer this one off-topic.pieguy1372 wrote:
2. if you silence the slider-slide, you can't do that (but I plan to dispute this later too
In the case where there isn't a BPM change, there shouldn't be a tick rate change either, since BPM and tick rate are sister concepts.pieguy1372 wrote:
serious? Using a red line to half the BPM even though the rest of the song has the same BPM is not right because it's just one slow part, it's not a whole different section. Using a red line to set a new offset isn't correct because it's just for one section and the song is still following the old offset, and it won't even make a difference because the sliders and thus the ticks will still be placed in the same position.
fix'd.pieguy1372 wrote:
your way of using ticks is the only one thatmakes sense = =the Ouendan game concept was designed for
Examples?pieguy1372 wrote:
that's not the problem, and also quit making it seem like we're insane. The problem is that there are some cases where even using tick rate 1 is too high.
I want to bring back hold sliders. Using BPM changes to accomplish them is an error, but using speed changes to accomplish them currently has bugs. I will work on this once time permits.pieguy1372 wrote:
well then, why are "hold sliders" banned? Technically there's a very slow pace in a part where they are used, so won't a 0.5x bpm + a 0.5x inherited section (or even a 0.25x bpm) fit?
Topic Starter
In the case where there isn't a BPM change, there shouldn't be a tick rate change either, since BPM and tick rate are sister concepts.the whole point is, they're really not >< As I said, there are other ways of doing things besides your way...
fix'd.so it was originally designed that way, and we could start that way as a basis for what we should do, but once more fun could be had in other ways there's no point in staying with the original way = =
And don't try to say that tick rate 0.5/0 supporters are insane or the minority, as NatsumeRin said there are more tick rate 0.5/0 supporters than people who want it gone.
Examples?see Alace's post ages ago, he had a bunch of them >.<
I want to bring back hold sliders. Using BPM changes to accomplish them is an error, but using speed changes to accomplish them currently has bugs. I will work on this once time permits.awesome
out of curiosity will there still be 1/1 ticks or will we be able to lower the tick rate?Might i add that i'm all in for keeping 0.5 and that way people that are happy with 0.5 can use it, while the others that prefer tick rate 1/2 can use it? Everyone's happy that way (inb4 nope), i dont even think the removal was really necessary.pieguy1372 wrote:
And don't try to say that tick rate 0.5/0 supporters are insane or the minority, as NatsumeRin said there are more tick rate 0.5/0 supporters than people who want it gone.
This causes issues with the structuring of the game. See the above points about sliders not requiring any player action, and speed change readability. (Whether you use it or not, it's an offering the game makes for players to use if they wish.)pieguy1372 wrote:
so it was originally designed that way, and we could start that way as a basis for what we should do, but once more fun could be had in other ways there's no point in staying with the original way = =
I think that tick 0.5 supporters have a different understanding of how the game works. I would like to work out a solution that has balanced gameplay and satisfies everyone.pieguy1372 wrote:
And don't try to say that tick rate 0.5/0 supporters are insane or the minority, as NatsumeRin said there are more tick rate 0.5/0 supporters than people who want it gone.
The tick rate would remain the same. I would probably need to look into doing something to improve the visual appearance of ticks which are too closely spaced--probably hiding every second one or something like that. Silencing the ticks on these sliders would be expected.pieguy1372 wrote:
awesome
^ This.Sakura Hana wrote:
Might i add that i'm all in for keeping 0.5 and that way people that are happy with 0.5 can use it, while the others that prefer tick rate 1/2 can use it? Everyone's happy that way (inb4 nope), i dont even think the removal was really necessary.
Ultimately, the wrong tick rate is just a minor annoyance. While it makes me sad to see maps reach ranking with a tick rate I find too low, I can still enjoy it if the map itself is good.
The only thing I saw being important was the speed change readability issue, which only shows up in 1% of maps anyway and is easily solved by removing a slider or choosing a less startling speed change.
Topic Starter
This causes issues with the structuring of the game. See the above points about sliders not requiring any player action, and speed change readability. (Whether you use it or not, it's an offering the game makes for players to use if they wish.)About not needing a player action, as I said hitting , releasing, and hitting again is not such a natural movement, so most players won't do it. About your example, I find that such sliders are not so common, and anyone who uses one likely wouldn't have tick rate 0.5 in the first place
About speed change readability, as I said if a speed change is used well it won't need a tick. Just because some people use ticks to read badly used speed changes, that doesn't mean that it should be forced on everything = =
I think that tick 0.5 supporters have a different understanding of how the game works. I would like to work out a solution that has balanced gameplay and satisfies everyone.You can't just say that your way is better, because many people prefer the other way ><// If you and others want to satisfy everyone, removing an option is not such a good idea, because it leaves many people unsatisfied (though I know you didn't remove this yourself)
Regarding "balanced gameplay"
-I think that 99% of people won't notice any HP drain difference from 0.5 to 1 = = it will hardly matter because it's quite minor and most people would FC it anyway...
-I, and I'm sure others, think that making a map fit the song creates a more balanced experience than having a "constant rhythm" where it doesn't fit or having an out-of-place tick for 0.0001 extra HP which we won't even need. I recall one case where I had 3 new combos and someone told me to remove it because "it screwed up the hp drain", and I tested it myself and found it was the same whether I had new combos or not.
Ultimately, the wrong tick rate is just a minor annoyance. While it makes me sad to see maps reach ranking with a tick rate I find too low, I can still enjoy it if the map itself is good.then why not add it? Leaving it out causes a lot of people to be unsatisfied just so some people get their way 100% of the time, and leaving it back in will allow it to be used in cases where it is useful and, as you just said yourself, is only a minor thing for the others = =
In other words, having it would satisfy a lot more people than not having it. I also think that almost everyone agrees that it is quite useful in some cases regardless of whether the person prefers it or not, which in itself should be a reason for it to stay...
Btw, Will the Tick Rate be changeable by sections? it'll really fit more... in all senses... (Talking about Section-based Tick Rates)
to pieguy... Well.mm and SakuraHana didn't want the removal of 0.5 anyway.
to pieguy... Well.mm and SakuraHana didn't want the removal of 0.5 anyway.
Actually I like the idea of section-based tick rates.HakuNoKaemi wrote:
Btw, Will the Tick Rate be changeable by sections? it'll really fit more... in all senses... (Talking about Section-based Tick Rates)
to pieguy... Well.mm and SakuraHana didn't want the removal of 0.5 anyway.
But the problem is that this can be easily abused by mappers.
Well, actually even mapping is abused now, so that actually shouldn't be a problem.
We're making rules and guidelines to fight abuses, and well, one more guideline won't kill us.
We're making rules and guidelines to fight abuses, and well, one more guideline won't kill us.
I'm sorry, what?HakuNoKaemi wrote:
Well, actually even mapping is abused now, so that actually shouldn't be a problem.
We're making rules and guidelines to fight abuses, and well, one more guideline won't kill us.
I worry that tick rate changes would get used by mappers for reasons other than a meter/tempo change in the song, which they shouldn't be. Which would lead to another debate much like this one. I think it's better to keep the genie inside the bottle.
For example, how? And I think it's up to mappers to decide how to approach mapping.mm201 wrote:
I worry that tick rate changes would get used by mappers for reasons other than a meter/tempo change in the song, which they shouldn't be.
SPOILER
mapping in general is being pretty abused on most ways.
Pretty most rules reasons are
The reason for rules, actually.Natteke wrote:
I'm sorry, what?HakuNoKaemi wrote:
Well, actually even mapping is abused now, so that actually shouldn't be a problem.
We're making rules and guidelines to fight abuses, and well, one more guideline won't kill us.
mapping in general is being pretty abused on most ways.
Pretty most rules reasons are
I dun't wan' to add new feature!or similiar.
I quote Natteke response to mm.
it's up to mapper how to use features, and it's actually good using guidelines, Modders, MATs and BATs to control the use of them.
My God, that is not what overmapping is. You've been in this community for how long now? If a phrase warrants the use of a long slider, then the ticks will work. If silence is more suitable, then nothing should be mapped. I felt like bringing this up, because I scrolled down and nobody seemed to have made a point of it.ykcarrot wrote:
You're overmapping now.RandomJibberish wrote:
In that example the ticks will still land on 1/1s and not sound too bad.
Tick rate has no bearing on how over or undermapped a phrase is. I can use tick rate 4 on a Beginner difficulty and it not be overmapped.
If tick rates constitute mapping then SB sounds do too.
The osu!client is an early line of defense in stopping abusive or broken mapping from becoming ranked.
I don't agree with any of the examples provided, and adding a useless feature with high abuse potential would be a very big mistake.
If tick rates constitute mapping then SB sounds do too.
As always, this sounds nice on paper, but it rarely goes according to plan. All it takes is one strong-headed mapper and a lax BAT, or simply a BAT whose tired of all the fighting and pestering, to get an abusive map ranked. Once the precedent is set, more abusive maps will become ranked.HakuNoKaemi wrote:
it's up to mapper how to use features, and it's actually good using guidelines, Modders, MATs and BATs to control the use of them.
The osu!client is an early line of defense in stopping abusive or broken mapping from becoming ranked.
I don't agree with any of the examples provided, and adding a useless feature with high abuse potential would be a very big mistake.
There are 1/0 ( it tend to infinite if you're wondering ) modders to see if the feature has been badly used, and if a feature is badly used is really seeable.
I'm mostly supporting adding of Tick Rate 0.5 and maybe 0.33 plus 0.25, not tick rate 0 and maybe section based tick rates so you can effectively a map that need them better (Just add an Advanced section in the timing setup panel).
Do not permit map to be ranked in less than 4 days and with less than 8 mods and 8 Stars from different people(or even an higher limit) if you're afraid of misusing. It would've been more needed than removing 0.5 tick rates
I'm mostly supporting adding of Tick Rate 0.5 and maybe 0.33 plus 0.25, not tick rate 0 and maybe section based tick rates so you can effectively a map that need them better (Just add an Advanced section in the timing setup panel).
Do not permit map to be ranked in less than 4 days and with less than 8 mods and 8 Stars from different people(or even an higher limit) if you're afraid of misusing. It would've been more needed than removing 0.5 tick rates
Examples of such abusive maps. please?mm201 wrote:
As always, this sounds nice on paper, but it rarely goes according to plan. All it takes is one strong-headed mapper and a lax BAT, or simply a BAT whose tired of all the fighting and pestering, to get an abusive map ranked. Once the precedent is set, more abusive maps will become ranked.HakuNoKaemi wrote:
it's up to mapper how to use features, and it's actually good using guidelines, Modders, MATs and BATs to control the use of them.
The osu!client is an early line of defense in stopping abusive or broken mapping from becoming ranked.
I don't agree with any of the examples provided, and adding a useless feature with high abuse potential would be a very big mistake.
Just throwing this in... but isn't "Tick Rate 0" the same as not using a slider in its concept? Also, when 0.5 rates was used often back then, there was maps with difficulties or sets with doubled BPM. If you use the right BPM and/or setup of notes, then Tick Rate 1 shouldn't be much of a problem to use like some think. Not trying to say that this way is 100% perfect, but if mappers don't try to adjust to changes when they need to, then it's only going to cause problems when their mapping style is becoming out of date.
Topic Starter
no, a slider gives a "hold" feeling while a circle doesn't...whymeman wrote:
Just throwing this in... but isn't "Tick Rate 0" the same as not using a slider in its concept?
abusive? examples pleasemm201 wrote:
The osu!client is an early line of defense in stopping abusive or broken mapping from becoming ranked.
I don't agree with any of the examples provided, and adding a useless feature with high abuse potential would be a very big mistake.So, even though the majority of the community wants this and finds there's nothing "abusive" about it, you're denying it based on your own personal opinion?
Of course the slider has to be "held" to the end, but tickless slider is like just having two or so notes without something in the middle. Also, it would actually dumb the difficulty down for beatmaps set with no ticks (especially when there would be cases for not needing to do so) for the sliders since the player could just click the slider, take a sip of soda without holding the sliderball, then catch the cursor on the ball before it ends.pieguy1372 wrote:
no, a slider gives a "hold" feeling while a circle doesn't...whymeman wrote:
Just throwing this in... but isn't "Tick Rate 0" the same as not using a slider in its concept?
Also, it's better to think of the wider picture than to assume only for yourself "it won't get abused". If you only think for yourself in these kind of topics, it's only going to make it end badly with no conclusion. Got to think about why these things are being said and try to understand it.
Topic Starter
Of course the slider has to be "held" to the end, but tickless slider is like just having two or so notes without something in the middle....No, not really
I guess you don't understand what I mean by feeling.Also, it would actually dumb the difficulty down for beatmaps set with no ticks (especially when there would be cases for not needing to do so) for the sliders since the player could just click the slider, take a sip of soda without holding the sliderball, then catch the cursor on the ball before it ends.I already said that in most cases this isn't really a natural movement. Even in cases such as mm201's example, I've never actually seen an example of such a slider with tick rate 0.5. I assume it's because most of the people who use such a slider wouldn't use tick rate 0.5 anyway...
Also, it's better to think of the wider picture than to assume only for yourself "it won't get abused". If you only think for yourself in these kind of topics, it's only going to make it end badly with no conclusion. Got to think about why these things are being said and try to understand it....
I'm not thinking for myself here. I'm quite sure that the majority of the community feels that it won't be abused.
Also, you should think about why we're supporting tick rate 0.5 instead of just assuming that your way is the only one that makes sense.
Actually whyme is right, even tho you call it feeling, any player can just click the slider start and end if it has no ticks.pieguy1372 wrote:
Of course the slider has to be "held" to the end, but tickless slider is like just having two or so notes without something in the middle....No, not really
"Not trying to say that this way is 100% perfect, but if mappers don't try to adjust to changes when they need to, then it's only going to cause problems when their mapping style is becoming out of date."
Did you just forgot I said that? Also, another problem that may show up is the use of hold sliders on a beatmap. Since the tickrate would be already pretty low (using 0.5 with a not so fast BPM) , plus with a .5 BPM section combined with it, that would make the slider tickless for a longer period of time.
Did you just forgot I said that? Also, another problem that may show up is the use of hold sliders on a beatmap. Since the tickrate would be already pretty low (using 0.5 with a not so fast BPM) , plus with a .5 BPM section combined with it, that would make the slider tickless for a longer period of time.
Topic Starter
Actually whyme is right, even tho you call it feeling, any player can just click the slider start and end if it has no ticks.That's not at all what I mean by feeling. It's a gameplay issue, and for examples like mm201's I agree (unless a tick really doesn't fit there), but in most cases it doesn't matter. In most cases, hitting once, letting go, and hitting again is more counterintuitive than just holding.
Except in this case, there's nothing wrong as is and you all are just forcing it. It causes a problem when the general idea of what makes a "good" map changes, not in cases like this.whymeman wrote:
"Not trying to say that this way is 100% perfect, but if mappers don't try to adjust to changes when they need to, then it's only going to cause problems when their mapping style is becoming out of date."
Did you just forgot I said that? Also, another problem that may show up is the use of hold sliders on a beatmap. Since the tickrate would be already pretty low (using 0.5 with a not so fast BPM) , plus with a .5 BPM section combined with it, that would make the slider tickless for a longer period of time.What's wrong with hold sliders? And timing sections don't even change the tick rate
Even if they did, having ticks on a hold slider generally doesn't fit anyway. Don't bring that up here. It's already been discussed to death. Your feelings are the only thing getting in the way.pieguy1372 wrote:
What's wrong with hold sliders? And timing sections don't even change the tick rate
2009 http://osu.ppy.sh/s/9538whymeman wrote:
"Not trying to say that this way is 100% perfect, but if mappers don't try to adjust to changes when they need to, then it's only going to cause problems when their mapping style is becoming out of date."
2011 http://osu.ppy.sh/s/24949
No changes at all, both maps are almost the same. Don't say something you have no idea about.
Sakura Hana wrote:
Actually whyme is right, even tho you call it feeling, any player can just click the slider start and end if it has no ticks.
Actually no, he isn't. Haven't seen anyone doing that during my stay on osu.
I hate when people who don't play or map talk for others like they know something. All your "this would cause" "players gonna abuse" is the most retarded reason. Especially when a person isn't really good in mapping or playing.
They could, but they probably wont. Even now I can play a slider by just clicking the start, ticks, and ends, then not clicking on the other parts. Any other player can do that too. Do they? Nope. Why? Because it's easier to actually follow the path, as the sliders are probably adding to the flow of the cursormovementSakura Hana wrote:
Actually whyme is right, even tho you call it feeling, any player can just click the slider start and end if it has no ticks.
I've hit so many hold sliders, moved off the track, realized it's a hold slider, go back on it, and get a 300.
Same thing with tick 0 long sliders.
Same thing with tick 0 long sliders.
it's only going to cause problems when their mapping style is becoming out of date.1. I hope some of you guys could know a bit more of current mapping, about what people likes, and, about "what's a good map"
2. I hope rules are made to serve players or say the majority of the community, give them what they really like, not "accept it or get fucked"
3. I hope maps could develop faster than rules, but it becomes impossible if you can't follow ^
It's shit like this when people who push silly rules are usually the ones who are least experienced
That's what you never do, dude. Whenever someone is trying to make a point, you always sart your "Stop being childish" and "think about it" shit whitout ever listening to anyone.whymeman wrote:
Got to think about why these things are being said and try to understand it.
This is why we can't have nice things!!!!Sakura Hana wrote:
Actually whyme is right, even tho you call it feeling, any player can just click the slider start and end if it has no ticks.
Like the other said, you're both wrong. If you think a tickless slider is basically just two notes with something in the middle then I know for a fact you two don't even play this game. Much more feeling goes into it than that when actually playing the map.
There's no accounting for taste.NatsumeRin wrote:
1. I hope some of you guys could know a bit more of current mapping, about what people likes, and, about "what's a good map"
I think it's a good idea to encourage people to use 1.0 tick rate, and the easiest way to do that is to disable 0.5 in the editor. You can't remove 0.5 tick rate from osu, and I bet anyone good enough to make a map with 0.5 or 0 tick rate knows exactly how to do this, and knows how to do it well or else they wouldn't want to use 0.5 tick rate.
I think you wont be able to hax it either, because it will read it as 1.0 whenever it's below 1.0
The only problem I see with tick 0 is that reading speedups or slowdowns gets harder to read. I don't know about others, but I do look at ticks while playing (maybe that's why I'm not that good at this game). This could bring the "sightreading" thing much further into grey area than it already is imo. Just my 2c.
This is starting to turn into another fight than a debate.... 
Bashing at other people's styles and saying your own is "perfect" isn't going to get anywhere at all. Opinions won't be heard if you're only going to attack people about the issue than to discuss it. Besides that, there are times when you don't actually need a .5 tick rate if you don't double the BPM or could try reducing it by half to where it equalizes with the main beats.
Also, try to debate on the reasons why you feel it is or is not a good idea.
Bashing at other people's styles and saying your own is "perfect" isn't going to get anywhere at all. Opinions won't be heard if you're only going to attack people about the issue than to discuss it. Besides that, there are times when you don't actually need a .5 tick rate if you don't double the BPM or could try reducing it by half to where it equalizes with the main beats.
Also, try to debate on the reasons why you feel it is or is not a good idea.
low tick rate can be abused in many ways:
- Unreadable slider speed changes (not really but whatever)
- Not needing to follow the sliderball (mm201's examples are good enough)
- Lowering combo for the sake of lowering score to go into ranking instead of approval.
Now im gonna leave one thing i said some time ago.
"Even tho there are mapping techniques that are unrankable in 100% of the cases, no mapping technique is rankable in 100% of the cases" <- Anything you use, if you dont use it right, doesnt fit, will get your bubble popped, map unranked, whatever, but that also means, that no matter what, anything we allow has abuse potential, it doesn't matter, which is why modders and Staff are here to control the abuse of mapping techniques in beatmaps.
@NatsumeRin: Good maps? Good mappers? it's all opinion and subjective.
Imo, rules should only restrict mapping to a point when something could potentially break the game, or be outright unplayable (like overlapping objects on the timeline), i dont even know why are we fighting over this, it is silly and makes no sense, we should just come to an agreement that favors everyone...
- Unreadable slider speed changes (not really but whatever)
- Not needing to follow the sliderball (mm201's examples are good enough)
- Lowering combo for the sake of lowering score to go into ranking instead of approval.
Now im gonna leave one thing i said some time ago.
"Even tho there are mapping techniques that are unrankable in 100% of the cases, no mapping technique is rankable in 100% of the cases" <- Anything you use, if you dont use it right, doesnt fit, will get your bubble popped, map unranked, whatever, but that also means, that no matter what, anything we allow has abuse potential, it doesn't matter, which is why modders and Staff are here to control the abuse of mapping techniques in beatmaps.
@NatsumeRin: Good maps? Good mappers? it's all opinion and subjective.
Imo, rules should only restrict mapping to a point when something could potentially break the game, or be outright unplayable (like overlapping objects on the timeline), i dont even know why are we fighting over this, it is silly and makes no sense, we should just come to an agreement that favors everyone...
All I can do right now is facepalm. Facepalm so hard my face hurts.
Wait what,
Control the abuse of mapping techniques in beatmaps
the abuse of mapping techniques in beatmaps
abuse of mapping techniques in beatmaps
abuse of mapping techniques
WHAT
Wait what,
How is this an abuse? I can go play any map and not follow the slider ball, the poot are you talking about?Sakura Hana wrote:
low tick rate can be abused in many ways:
- Not needing to follow the sliderball (mm201's examples are good enough)
You're saying stuff is subjective while also stating that something in mapping doesn't fit or isn't used right, isn't it also subjective? There's clearly stuff that interferes with gameplay, like hidden notes or wrong timing and there's also stuff that doesn't hurt anyone but a bunch of cryheads who don't take time to neither map nor play the game enough to understand it fully. Anything you allow has abuse potential? Oh really? Why not ban everything then so that nothing is abused? This can be abused, that can be abused, this is not a very good reasoning.Sakura Hana wrote:
Now im gonna leave one thing i said some time ago.
"Even tho there are mapping techniques that are unrankable in 100% of the cases, no mapping technique is rankable in 100% of the cases" <- Anything you use, if you dont use it right, doesnt fit, will get your bubble popped, map unranked, whatever, but that also means, that no matter what, anything we allow has abuse potential, it doesn't matter, which is why modders and Staff are here to control the abuse of mapping techniques in beatmaps.
@NatsumeRin: Good maps? Good mappers? it's all opinion and subjective.
Control the abuse of mapping techniques in beatmaps
the abuse of mapping techniques in beatmaps
abuse of mapping techniques in beatmaps
abuse of mapping techniques
WHAT
It's just like you're creating a bunch of rules all for the same reason: "preventing abusing" -> means you just need to prevent people mapping imho.
Mapping itself it's just like abusing the game concept to create maps that are funny to play, and a game meant to be fun more than other things, as it won't be a game if it wasn't fun.
This type of songs surely need multiple tick rates
However it's getting nowhere: Doubling BPM is quitely needed in the cases there are harder timings, because more ticks just make you approximate more the various sounds, there are cases in which is impossible to get the true timing.
As so i think Tick rate 0.5 at least need to be reimplemented.
Mapping itself it's just like abusing the game concept to create maps that are funny to play, and a game meant to be fun more than other things, as it won't be a game if it wasn't fun.
This type of songs surely need multiple tick rates
However it's getting nowhere: Doubling BPM is quitely needed in the cases there are harder timings, because more ticks just make you approximate more the various sounds, there are cases in which is impossible to get the true timing.
As so i think Tick rate 0.5 at least need to be reimplemented.
Then plz, why Tick Rate is an objective thing? there're people (in fact, probably the majority) agree it's useful, then it got rejected because of "i can't agree with any examples provided". Why we should all share the same feeling here when mapping itself is a subjective thing?
And, if it IS subjective, i don't think the words "just you need to adjust to fit it" is fine. Because when we meet a problem, a subjective one, the best way to deal with is leave it there and see how it changes, right?
To prevent abuse.... it's probably not a good reason as said before.
And, if it IS subjective, i don't think the words "just you need to adjust to fit it" is fine. Because when we meet a problem, a subjective one, the best way to deal with is leave it there and see how it changes, right?
To prevent abuse.... it's probably not a good reason as said before.
NR, natteke, and haku have convinced me. Leave it in. I still think they should just osuhax (or change bpm) it in since peppy made an executive decision about it, but I support the option to have tick rate 0.5 and 0. I haven't seen any map that should use it yet, but that should be left up to the mapper. BATs who disagree can just not rank the map.
Kyousogiga PV sounds great on tick rate 2 btw.
Kyousogiga PV sounds great on tick rate 2 btw.
And misusing ( about secton-based tick rates too ) can just be found by many modders. If it has been misused, it mean it had not received that many mods and it's not ready for a rank.
The Kyousogiga PV sounds even better with section based Tick rates ( 4,2 and 1 )
The Kyousogiga PV sounds even better with section based Tick rates ( 4,2 and 1 )
You've never seen cursor dancers? What rock have you been living under?Natteke wrote:
Sakura Hana wrote:
Actually whyme is right, even tho you call it feeling, any player can just click the slider start and end if it has no ticks.
Actually no, he isn't. Haven't seen anyone doing that during my stay on osu.
Think of it from a gamedev perspective for a minute: Whether or not players actually do it, if the game lets you leave sliders without combo breaking, it's a bug. An FC should represent a perfect run.
It got rejected because peppy. Just sayin'.NatsumeRin wrote:
then it got rejected because of "i can't agree with any examples provided".
And I'm inclined to abandon quality control completely. Let anyone rank their own maps. Because everyone has their own ideas of how the game is supposed to be and it's impossible to satisfy everyone.ziin wrote:
NR, natteke, and haku have convinced me. Leave it in. I still think they should just osuhax (or change bpm) it in since peppy made an executive decision about it, but I support the option to have tick rate 0.5 and 0. I haven't seen any map that should use it yet, but that should be left up to the mapper. BATs who disagree can just not rank the map.
Kyousogiga PV sounds great on tick rate 2 btw.
Everyone wants the game to be something different. ReRave has moving hitcircles and accelerating "sliders". I would consider sliders that don't tick to be a fundamental alteration to the game concept, just like the above two ReRave examples, which is why I don't agree with it. osu! is what it is and shouldn't be changed into something different.
I'm not living under rocks, unlike you. I play this game quite a lot and I know for fact that it's easier to follow the slider ball than not to follow. On top of that, Check any Top 40 replay and you are most likely to find that no one does cursor dancing, simply because you get confused with the pattern and will end up missing a note or two.
On the other hand you have mappers who don't like to hear ticks which often sound horrible (especially in long sliders), so who are you supporting, a load of mappers or 1-2 people who do cursor dance?
On the other hand you have mappers who don't like to hear ticks which often sound horrible (especially in long sliders), so who are you supporting, a load of mappers or 1-2 people who do cursor dance?
Top 40 plays are a small minority.
And insane maps rarely if ever have sliders longer than 1/1, so dancing during sliders will never happen anyway.
And insane maps rarely if ever have sliders longer than 1/1, so dancing during sliders will never happen anyway.
Top 40 in any ranked map.
If it happens rarely, why are you even bringing it up then? D:
If it happens rarely, why are you even bringing it up then? D:
You've never seen cursor dancers? What rock have you been living under?You're a dev and kinda didn't remembered about 2 things:
Think of it from a gamedev perspective for a minute: Whether or not players actually do it, if the game lets you leave sliders without combo breaking, it's a bug. An FC should represent a perfect run.
1- The fact people use CS from 3 to 5 ( i used 6 too )
2- The fact Sliders HAVE a slider-followcircle
Those fact make people dance in long slider, actually, You didn't prevent it: you DID support it.
EDIT:The actual gameplay did support it.
If it's supported by a great majority of player, why don't readd it?
Modding = Quality Control, and we have plenty modders here, so don't just exit with the
And I'm inclined to abandon quality control completely. Let anyone rank their own maps. Because everyone has their own ideas of how the game is supposed to be and it's impossible to satisfy everyone.Because don't adding a thing that do make the quality of the map better, do mean you're supporting quality control?
Nope, you're only destroing maps quality like this.
I would put it back (despite my feelings) if it were up to me. I will exit with that.
Top 40 plays simply tells you even the best players of this community won't do that stupid thing because it may easily cause a combo break, people won't play a game because they suck at it, they want to play like a boss and yeah, that means top 40 plays shows the way how the community is playing (or at least trying to play)mm201 wrote:
Top 40 plays are a small minority.
And insane maps rarely if ever have sliders longer than 1/1, so dancing during sliders will never happen anyway.
If you still think Insane maps won't make sense, check Easy or Normal, if 4mods plays won't make sense, randomly spec someone is #100000
Then, could you agree "hold the sliders all the way" is just a common sense apply to all the osu community? If yes, i don't get your point to deny it.
You are missing the point.NatsumeRin wrote:
Then, could you agree "hold the sliders all the way" is just a common sense apply to all the osu community?
Don't try to tell me you've never done this.ziin wrote:
I've hit so many hold sliders, moved off the track, realized it's a hold slider, go back on it, and get a 300.
Same thing with tick 0 long sliders.
ziin you should know it's different, one is a rare case and another is more like a common sense, why they could be the same? just because you "could" do so doesn't mean you need or have to do that, and the fact is when players know what the slider speed is, they ALWAYS follow it except for some stupid reason.
For instance a random change in slider speed that's not intuitive at all.NatsumeRin wrote:
and the fact is when players know what the slider speed is, they ALWAYS follow it except for some stupid reason.
Oh no, it's so hard to click retry.
However the slider speed does not change at all during sliders plus the times where there is a completely unintuitive slider velocity change, modders should know (like making the speed slower, when the music start going faster).Sakura Hana wrote:
For instance a random change in slider speed that's not intuitive at all.NatsumeRin wrote:
and the fact is when players know what the slider speed is, they ALWAYS follow it except for some stupid reason.
I didn't see unintuitive speed changes in all the map I mod neither the one I create/participate, so it's so rare you can even say no lastly ranked map has unintuitive SV changes.
How exactly would that be rankable?Sakura Hana wrote:
For instance a random change in slider speed that's not intuitive at all.
Make sliders of future maps sliderbreak if you miss 50% of the sliderpath or smth, keep old ones like they are.
^If this is possible, problem kinda solved.
^If this is possible, problem kinda solved.
tl;dr: re-code the game to a different concept that doesn't use sliderticks.
Why?
Why?
I'm neutral on Slider Tick 0, I want the reintroduction of Slider Tick 0.5 (0.33 and 0.25 would be epic though not so useful) and, if possible, the feature to use Section-based Slidertick.
It's not "We want the remotion of Sliderticks", it's "we want more feature for Sliderticks"
It's not "We want the remotion of Sliderticks", it's "we want more feature for Sliderticks"
Why?HakuNoKaemi wrote:
(0.33 and 0.25 would be epic though not so useful)
You would be able to map more types of maps(with a 3/4 Timing, for example), but they aren't that useful
Retrying because some needless crap happened is awful and shouldn't happen.Natteke wrote:
Oh no, it's so hard to click retry.
The entire point of slider ticks is that a slider has to be followed properly and that it replenishes score. I don't see why such a fuss has to be made over this--anything slower than a tick on every beat would be too slow for pretty much all music and if there are really long sections with no underlying beat, then why the Hell are you mapping that song? This is a rhythm action game, which is derived from a game about dancing. Dancing to the beat. A beat which is followed by tick rate 1 at the very least.
This community is hilarious.
Actually it's derived from a game about cheerleading, but same concept anyways.D33d wrote:
which is derived from a game about dancing. Dancing to the beat.
D33d wrote:
Retrying because some needless crap happened is awful and shouldn't happen.Natteke wrote:
Oh no, it's so hard to click retry.
The entire point of slider ticks is that a slider has to be followed properly and that it replenishes score. I don't see why such a fuss has to be made over this--anything slower than a tick on every beat would be too slow for pretty much all music and if there are really long sections with no underlying beat, then why the Hell are you mapping that song? This is a rhythm action game, which is derived from a game about dancing. Dancing to the beat. A beat which is followed by tick rate 1 at the very least.
This community is hilarious.
A) Reaction images do not suffice for a counter-argument
B) Spamming retry is no excuse for bad mapping
C) Build a better argument like other people do
B) Spamming retry is no excuse for bad mapping
C) Build a better argument like other people do
Jumping around while performing sliders is fun.
So, if I follow this argument, any innovation that can be made is bad because it's not following the original principe of the game ?D33d wrote:
This is a rhythm action game, which is derived from a game about dancing. Dancing to the beat. A beat which is followed by tick rate 1 at the very least.
So, Super Mario 64 is a bad Mario game because you can punch your ennemies, which was impossible in the Mario Bros/Mario World ? Ô_o
I don't have any opinion about the slider tick rate, usually 1 is fine, but please don't use bad arguments like this one. ><
inb4 i'm stupid
Ironically i never defeated enemies by punching in SM64 since it wasnt very convenient unlike jumping on them.Noob Man wrote:
So, Super Mario 64 is a bad Mario game because you can punch your ennemies, which was impossible in the Mario Bros/Mario World ? Ô_o
Can't really argue with a person who thinks that osu is a game about dancing.Shiirn wrote:
A) Reaction images do not suffice for a counter-argument
B) Spamming retry is no excuse for bad mapping
C) Build a better argument like other people do
Topic Starter
Not all songs have a sound on every single 1/1 time beat
Ticks, like everything else in osu!, should fit the sounds in the song, not the units of time called a beat
Ticks, like everything else in osu!, should fit the sounds in the song, not the units of time called a beat
If there aren't any threats to the game play itself, I don't see the problem having it open for the possibilities. It's just like jumps. Mappers should be sane with their choices, and modders should be okay with checking if the mapper is using the technique correctly.
you got the wrong bpm.pieguy1372 wrote:
Not all songs have a sound on every single 1/1 time beat
The threats to gameplay are earlier in the thread.bmin11 wrote:
If there aren't any threats to the game play itself, I don't see the problem having it open for the possibilities. It's just like jumps. Mappers should be sane with their choices, and modders should be okay with checking if the mapper is using the technique correctly.
"Sound" and "pulse" are not always the same concept. A song can potentially have no sound on a whole beat, but still have a pulse there.
This whole philosophical argument has to deal with whether ticks represent pulses or sounds.
This whole philosophical argument has to deal with whether ticks represent pulses or sounds.