forum

osu! is dying — and we all feel it.

posted
Total Posts
106
Topic Starter
julioplsay
It’s not new. We see fewer and fewer new faces, fewer people excited to climb ranks, fewer maps actually being played. The pp system, which once felt fun, has now become a prison. If you don’t farm, you don’t exist. If you don’t hit 95%+, the game basically tells you your effort is worthless. You can train for days, weeks, even months just to gain 1pp, while someone who has been playing for a few weeks can farm 300pp in an afternoon. That’s not healthy, that’s not motivating — it’s exhausting.

And the worst part? The game keeps selling the idea of “self-improvement”… while shoving rank and leaderboards in your face 24/7. You open the client and it says: “your rank dropped because you didn’t play today.” You open a map and the leaderboard is right there, comparing you to everyone else. The message is clear: “don’t compare yourself”... but in reality, you HAVE to compare yourself.

As for competition? It’s almost nonexistent. We have one World Cup a year, and it’s always the same top pp players from each country. We already know who’s playing, and we already know who’s going to win. Where’s the thrill? Where’s the chance for new names to appear? Where are the stories that keep us watching? Right now osu! is just an endless solo grind, where the only thing that changes is whether you hit one more circle or missed one.

But the community wants more. We need more.

👉 What could change?
The future of osu! isn’t in more pp, more farm, or more forgotten maps. The future lies in real competition. Imagine an official 1v1 Elo system. It wouldn’t just be “farming alone and chasing numbers” — it would be entering matches against players at your level, with maps randomly chosen from a pool by the system itself. If you’re at the lowest Elo, you’d get 1–2 star maps. Climb a bit higher, and you start seeing 3–4 stars, then 5–6, and at the top you face brutal 7–8 star tech and stamina maps.

Victory wouldn’t just be “who FCed” or “who gained more pp”, but who played better overall: higher accuracy, more consistency, better adaptation. Each win gives Elo points, each loss makes you drop. At the end of every season, the ladder resets. That means every month or year starts a fresh race, with space for new names to shine — no more depending on years of pp grinding to be relevant. It’s a system that doesn’t reward only comfort, but forces you out of it. A system where every match matters, every hit counts, and every victory against someone your level feels like an achievement — something the solo grind can never give.

And the World Cup… it needs to change for good. Enough with teams formed just by the top 10 pp of each country. We need a year-round competitive circuit: local qualifiers, regional tournaments, majors, and then a true World Championship at the end. Just like other games do: rivalries, stories, surprises. That would bring osu! back to life, give hidden talents a stage, and even open the door to something that today feels impossible: real osu! teams, with sponsorships, coaches, staff, and maybe even salaries for the best.

osu! is nearly 20 years old now. It’s beautiful that it still exists, that we still have a passionate community, that we still have legends like mrekk, btmc, WhiteCat, maliszewski, and so many others. But even these names are getting tired. The world’s #1 himself has said he can’t take being top anymore, because his pp lead is so huge it kills competition entirely. That shows how broken the system is: it kills the excitement even at the very top.

If nothing changes, what will remain? Only nostalgia. We’ll remember the days when everyone fought for scores on the same maps, when 727pp was a myth, when the World Cup actually felt exciting. But the present will keep fading away.

Peppy and the team have already proven they can evolve the game — osu!lazer is proof of that. But now the most important decision has to be made: to reform how we compete. To give us a real reason to play beyond farming pp alone. To give us an official stage, a calendar, a league. To give osu! a future.

If we want this game to still be alive 20 years from now, we need to talk about this. We need to demand change. Because if we keep pretending everything’s fine… we’ll watch osu! die slowly, circle by circle.
Happy Satoko
inb4 peppy posts "but we have just as many players as pre-covid!" just ignore that we have a player retention problem and everyone plays less, is less passionate.

the devs (primarily peppy) can't even manage the current scoring system. it's been remarkably broken for a year now. they didn't even implement "beatmap of the day" the way people had requested, simply recycling their old spotlights system. they would do even worse with an elo system. osu only lives on because new players come in to replace everyone that leaves, but it's not sustainable. if none of the staff can properly rescue osu in his retirement, he needs to sell the game to someone who can manage it properly.

gpt ass OP post though
Wimpy Cursed
Can't tell if the first few paragraphs are major skill issue + weak mental game, or just a hate crime to the system entirely lmao

Elo honestly does sound like a fun addition, competition is always nice !
Managing though? I don't know if enough resources are compelled to spend their time with all this. I mean, think about it. Other competitive games can only do this because there's already a rotation of maps being introduced for players, but what about this game? Vast variety, different skillsets (like a lot), and even mindblock lols, More can probably be said here, but I'm stupid. People will get very bored of the same maps as well. Even if this were to be implemented, it doesn't change the mindset between "I need to farm for [number/rank]," that's the first point made.

Don't know much about OWC itself, but the suggestion here seems like a lot more extra work (but can be good reward ofc), and a lot more cost to do. I don't think I've ever seen an official osu! tournament give top 1 teams, let's say, $1000. Salaries are definitely ineffienct for this game, if given by osu!
The game purely runs on its community.

Also what is even happening with Spotlights lately? A post about it is made about 4/5 months ago, looking for new people to join the team, yet no update has been made. I expected a lot of people to have applied, but not a majority answering a survey. What do I know though.
Riverism
not gonna comment on the rest because yea cool things are cool but frankly you should look into the world cups a bit more before commenting on how they should be run

julioplsay wrote:

Enough with teams formed just by the top 10 pp of each country.
I have never heard of this being a thing? like, at least in standard, that is not at all how you make a good tournament team, and all OWC-level tourney players know that. that's why local qualifiers DO already happen, like, everywhere.

having an official tourney series leading up to each world cup could be cool, but you'd need a lot more staff and infrastructure for that to be possible. there's already an actual world cup going on in some mode or another at almost any given time, OWC isn't the only one that exists.

julioplsay wrote:

That would bring osu! back to life, give hidden talents a stage, and even open the door to something that today feels impossible: real osu! teams, with sponsorships, coaches, staff, and maybe even salaries for the best.
now that's a big statement. it's not at all obvious to me how all that would just naturally happen as a result of adding a series of smaller tourneys to the world cup scene, though. do you have the steps in between thought out or is this more along the lines of wishful thinking?
CLICKMACHINE

julioplsay wrote:

And the World Cup… it needs to change for good. Enough with teams formed just by the top 10 pp of each country. We need a year-round competitive circuit: local qualifiers, regional tournaments, majors, and then a true World Championship at the end. Just like other games do: rivalries, stories, surprises. That would bring osu! back to life, give hidden talents a stage, and even open the door to something that today feels impossible: real osu! teams, with sponsorships, coaches, staff, and maybe even salaries for the best.
You do realize a stunt like this is gonna be extremely difficult to pull off when it's done by a small team right? This is quite a small team and a relatively smaller community, and I personally don't think we can get to a level that high. at least for now.

Julioplsay wrote:

To give us a real reason to play beyond farming pp alone. To give us an official stage, a calendar, a league. To give osu! a future.
I don't really understand this. wdym a calender/league? Do you mean like a much bigger tourney than OWC? But tbh there are stuff like Rank grinding, mapping, Ranked score grinding, Medal hunting etc so that can keep you occupied...
iwuvkittens
is this true i just got into the game
McEndu
I don't think there is a way to fix the high skill ceiling of the main aspects of this game.

I actually enjoy the creative side more, and I can push maps to the ranked -- become maps where you can farm actual pp on -- somehow consistently. The bar for making a ranked map, still, is quite a bit of a hurdle though, and you have to put much effort in learning level design and social skills and so on.

CLICKMACHINE summarized the other goals pretty well...
Topic Starter
julioplsay

Wimpy Cursed wrote:

Can't tell if the first few paragraphs are major skill issue + weak mental game, or just a hate crime to the system entirely lmao

Elo honestly does sound like a fun addition, competition is always nice !
Managing though? I don't know if enough resources are compelled to spend their time with all this. I mean, think about it. Other competitive games can only do this because there's already a rotation of maps being introduced for players, but what about this game? Vast variety, different skillsets (like a lot), and even mindblock lols, More can probably be said here, but I'm stupid. People will get very bored of the same maps as well. Even if this were to be implemented, it doesn't change the mindset between "I need to farm for [number/rank]," that's the first point made.

Don't know much about OWC itself, but the suggestion here seems like a lot more extra work (but can be good reward ofc), and a lot more cost to do. I don't think I've ever seen an official osu! tournament give top 1 teams, let's say, $1000. Salaries are definitely ineffienct for this game, if given by osu!
The game purely runs on its community.

Also what is even happening with Spotlights lately? A post about it is made about 4/5 months ago, looking for new people to join the team, yet no update has been made. I expected a lot of people to have applied, but not a majority answering a survey. What do I know though.
Well, the idea of an Elo system wouldn’t be a “PP killer” or replace solo play — it would just be an extra, a parallel ranking that gives players a different motivation.
Right now the reality is simple: your rank only really starts to matter around top 1000, and very few ever get there. The rest of the community spends years farming PP, dreaming that one day their rank will mean something, but most never reach that point and eventually quit. Above that, there’s no real reward for playing — just watching a number go up, and nothing more.

That’s exactly why everyone is so obsessed with PP. Not because the community “only cares about farming,” but because the game has never offered any other way to progress. Elo could be that alternative path: rewarding performance in direct matches, recognizing skill across different map styles, and giving concrete goals even for those who will never touch the top 1000.

And about the argument that “people would get bored of the same maps”? That’s a design problem, not a flaw in the idea. We already have Spotlights, Map of the Day, featured artist pools… but all of that is ignored because it has no real value. If it were tied to a competitive system, suddenly it would matter.

As for the competitive side, the truth is harsh: you can’t make a living from osu!. The few who managed to, did so outside the game — through streams, YouTube, etc. Official tournaments barely cover a month’s bills. That kills motivation even for top players: why train hard if the game gives nothing back? Elo could be the first step to revive the scene and prove that there are reasons to play beyond PP.

Riverism wrote:

not gonna comment on the rest because yea cool things are cool but frankly you should look into the world cups a bit more before commenting on how they should be run

julioplsay wrote:

Enough with teams formed just by the top 10 pp of each country.
I have never heard of this being a thing? like, at least in standard, that is not at all how you make a good tournament team, and all OWC-level tourney players know that. that's why local qualifiers DO already happen, like, everywhere.

having an official tourney series leading up to each world cup could be cool, but you'd need a lot more staff and infrastructure for that to be possible. there's already an actual world cup going on in some mode or another at almost any given time, OWC isn't the only one that exists.

julioplsay wrote:

That would bring osu! back to life, give hidden talents a stage, and even open the door to something that today feels impossible: real osu! teams, with sponsorships, coaches, staff, and maybe even salaries for the best.
now that's a big statement. it's not at all obvious to me how all that would just naturally happen as a result of adding a series of smaller tourneys to the world cup scene, though. do you have the steps in between thought out or is this more along the lines of wishful thinking?
I get your point, but let’s be honest: the way World Cups are run today is far from ideal. You said “local qualifiers already happen everywhere” — sure, community-driven ones do, but that’s not the same as an official, structured circuit supported by osu! itself. Right now it’s fragmented, inconsistent, and doesn’t scale.

And about “not obvious how real teams, sponsorships, or salaries could come from smaller tournaments” — well, of course not if nothing changes. The same was true for osu!lazer back in 2017: nobody could imagine what it would look like, and yet after years of work, here we are with something completely different. Projects like this take time, but they need to start somewhere.

osu! is free, no ads, and supporter alone doesn’t fund a competitive ecosystem. That’s exactly why peppy (and the dev team) should be thinking long-term: even a slow, step-by-step evolution could eventually create the infrastructure for more serious competition. If we never plant the seed, the scene will always stay where it is now: stagnating.
ossha
Is no one here noticing that this post is AI generated, LOL? The Em dashes, the classic AI sentence structure "It's not just X, its Y".

This is an AI generated post only made to ragebait you
iwuvkittens
so its ai generate..
Sonnyc
As a 2008 player, I’ve been attending osu!’s “funeral” since 2010 — and somehow the coffin keeps floating back up like a buoy in the ocean. Every few years the cycle repeats: osu! is dead — osu! is dying — osu! has already died — yet the servers are still full of people clicking circles.

Your post reads almost like the neural-network remix of every past obituary thread. But maybe that’s the real secret: osu! isn’t alive or dead, it’s in a perpetual Schrödinger state — simultaneously thriving and decaying, depending on how dramatic the forum feels that week.
ziv_vy
ok i'll 🎣 the 🪤

If you don’t farm, you don’t exist.
just quit farming if it is that bad. It is the nature of competitive gaming and there's nothing the team can do about it

As for competition? It’s almost nonexistent. We have one World Cup a year, and it’s always the same top pp players from each country.
First, there are five OWCs every year (and there will be way more once custom rulesets become a bigger thing)

Second: X digit world cups, Lazer grand arena, all the LAN based tourneys, literally all mapping competitions. And there's way more community tourneys. If anything I'd argue that there are too many tourneys and that it makes the OWC feel less special.

And if all of these feel too hard or out of reach, just open lazer and try to be #1 on lazer playlists.

Imagine an official 1v1 Elo system.
https://github.com/ppy/osu/issues/34245

very high priority on the devs side from what I understood. Expect it soon

We need a year-round competitive circuit: local qualifiers, regional tournaments, majors, and then a true World Championship at the end.
I'm all for a LAN based OWC that is closer to other competitive games, but that is simply not finantially sustainable for now. osu! is a very small game and the team can't fund an entire major, especially with their no advertisements model (it IS possible to hold a major without ads (look at Dota 2) but it is way more expensive and they'd need to buy plane tickets for literally all players. Until osu! hits 100k active player count you shouldn't be hoping for a LAN based OWC.

We need to demand change.
What changes?

we’ll watch osu! die slowly
The only time osu! was more popular than right now was when everyone was legally forced to stay home. The game is still thriving.
BlueChinchompa
Hypixel hasnt hit 200k players since covid that means hypixel is dead pack your bags gyze.


"You can train for days, weeks, even months just to gain 1pp"

Okay im sorry but thats just skill issue if it takes you that long to get a couple of PP. That isnt even the only leaderboard either as we have ranked score and PP doesnt treat EZ and reading fairly. PP is a scam :troll:

"As for competition? It’s almost nonexistent. We have one World Cup a year, and it’s always the same top pp players from each country. We already know who’s playing, and we already know who’s going to win. Where’s the thrill? Where’s the chance for new names to appear? Where are the stories that keep us watching? Right now osu! is just an endless solo grind, where the only thing that changes is whether you hit one more circle or missed one."

SK just recently beat the US in OWC as well as new countries being able to compete and qualify due to the new rank range. Also there isnt just OWC and many country/region specific tournaments happen all the time and are a lot of fun.

"And the worst part? The game keeps selling the idea of “self-improvement”… while shoving rank and leaderboards in your face 24/7. You open the client and it says: “your rank dropped because you didn’t play today.” You open a map and the leaderboard is right there, comparing you to everyone else. The message is clear: “don’t compare yourself”... but in reality, you HAVE to compare yourself."

Then set the leaderboards to local, use a skin that hides your rank, dont check your profile and your fine. It's pretty hard to notice your rank/leaderboards in lazer since its much more hidden. Stop whining about skill issue.

This has to be AI generated man
Wimpy Cursed
I'm AI
iwuvkittens

Wimpy Cursed wrote:

I'm AI
cap
Wimpy Cursed
no wah !
SparkNights
@admin please delete the ragebaiting stuff and restrict the julioplsay's account
McEndu

SparkNights wrote:

@admin please delete the ragebaiting stuff and restrict the julioplsay's account
I think its called "wasteland"? not enough an offense for a restriction imo
Wimpy Cursed
liked the opinion talk

now wasteland !
[-Snapy-]
I feel like the OP's ideas are just going to open up new problems. Besides, wasn't Peppy working on the "Elo" system?

How to fix OWC would be to go for the 6WC route, don't allow players from the top 3 placing teams to play for 2 years.

Also, why do you see leaderboards as such a problem? Either just play offline, or don't be signed in, or just don't look at it. It's such a pussy way of looking at it, there is no way to avoid comparing yourself to better players in a game where everyone has a rank... It looks more like you have a problem with the game, not that the game has its problems.

And like his points are still what he's thinking, not everyone can be born in a non-English speaking country and pull out reasonable paragraphs of how a game is dying and how to improve it.
McEndu

[-Snapy-] wrote:

I feel like the OP's ideas are just going to open up new problems. Besides, wasn't Peppy working on the "Elo" system?

How to fix OWC would be to go for the 6WC route, don't allow players from the top 3 placing teams to play for 2 years.

Also, why do you see leaderboards as such a problem? Either just play offline, or don't be signed in, or just don't look at it. It's such a pussy way of looking at it, there is no way to avoid comparing yourself to better players in a game where everyone has a rank... It looks more like you have a problem with the game, not that the game has its problems.

And like his points are still what he's thinking, not everyone can be born in a non-English speaking country and pull out reasonable paragraphs of how a game is dying and how to improve it.
People are suspecting that some LLM generated the post:

ossha wrote:

Is no one here noticing that this post is AI generated, LOL? The Em dashes, the classic AI sentence structure "It's not just X, its Y".

This is an AI generated post only made to ragebait you
ynzoqn
I'm curious why there are so many U+2019, U+201C, U+201D, U+2014, and U+2013 characters in julioplsay's text. Is there something special about your input method? Or is this the output of LLM?
McEndu
oh god this ended up in off-topic

what the
z0z
???

McEndu wrote:

oh god this ended up in off-topic

what the
guess it was too low effort to stay whereever it was before
Corne2Plum3
Why this isn't in G&R?
Karmine
Who tf moved this here? Just lock or wasteland.
Jangsoodlor

z0z wrote:

???

McEndu wrote:

oh god this ended up in off-topic

what the
guess it was too low effort to stay whereever it was before
and somehow it ended up on the sub-forum that most members don't even play the game (at least not actively) anymore.
MrMcMikey22
this thread sure looks like a 2 hour documentation video on youtube
Patatitta
ELO wouldn't work in osu. Osu! is a single player competitive game, not a hero shooter. Also, you're just tired, it happens, just rest and clear your mind up. I think osu is doing ok, the fact that you feel demotivated with your improvement speed has nothing to do with it, don't generalize your problem to be a everyone thing because it isn't.
z0z

Jangsoodlor wrote:

z0z wrote:

???

McEndu wrote:

oh god this ended up in off-topic

what the
guess it was too low effort to stay whereever it was before
and somehow it ended up on the sub-forum that most members don't even play the game (at least not actively) anymore.
low effort thread for a low effort forum i guess

i vote to wasteland the thread lol
[-Snapy-]
man 2 days and already a wasteland, but yeah I mean that's how far ChatGPT is going to get u, also very uninformed OP lol
Patatitta
also, if this is AI, this is the weirdest use of AI ever
tapperruiii

Patatitta wrote:

also, if this is AI, this is the weirdest use of AI ever
EXACTLY
[-Snapy-]

tapperruiii wrote:

Patatitta wrote:

also if this is AI, this is the weirdest use of AI ever
EXACTLY
Bruv, it's just the OP's thoughts in a correct and understandable language
tapperruiii
yo can we like wasteland or lock any post that is made fully with a LLM like instantly or ask the poster to actually use their brain for two minutes and practice basic writing by remaking their post? i don't want to see beep boop bop posts within a fucking fifteen kilometer radius of this place. like if you're gonna be making a post on a forum about something you're interested in, or something that you want to get some answers on, or maybe even just a shit post, why would you use something like a LLM to make a post? imo it just really loses the actual integrity of a post and doesn't even make it worth commenting on when you know they're probably gonna respond in some chatgpt generated response like, "osu! is dying - and we all feel it. As a community - we need to blah blah blah" like what the fuck is the purpose to reply to a post like that??? you don't get any emotion behind an AI-generated post and you get no real meaningful conversations with a fucking bot. none of these posts should be in any of these forums. if you're translating a post of yours from your native language to idk, cantonese, and then just copy paste it into a forum without any substantial interference to your original post in it's original language without changing any of your points or subjectivity, then that should be fine. but any of THIS, should just be wiped off the face of the earth.

tldr; remove ai posts or ask them to rewrite it in a non-AI-generated way, other posts that utilize AI to translate a poster's original words to a different language or of similar circumstances should be okay

i hate generative ai excessively
Ymir

Corne2Plum3 wrote:

Why this isn't in G&R?

Karmine wrote:

Who tf moved this here? Just lock or wasteland.
Really? You guys are complaining? Prime retardation was just dropped by the overlords for us bottom feeders to ruthlessly devour with insults and mockery, and you're complaining about it?
CLICKMACHINE
LMFAO
McEndu

Corne2Plum3 wrote:

Why this isn't in G&R?
fyi this was in development subforum
tapperruiii

McEndu wrote:

Corne2Plum3 wrote:

Why this isn't in G&R?
fyi this was in development subforum
development subforum is even wilder 😭✌️💔

yk funny that we have this post here after there was a bunch of posts about training AI on OT posts
McEndu

[-Snapy-] wrote:

man 2 days and already a wasteland, but yeah I mean that's how far ChatGPT is going to get u, also very uninformed OP lol
wasteland is well...deleted threads
tapperruiii

McEndu wrote:

[-Snapy-] wrote:

man 2 days and already a wasteland, but yeah I mean that's how far ChatGPT is going to get u, also very uninformed OP lol
wasteland is well...deleted threads
wasteland doesn't equal deleted threads, a wastelanded thread is a thread that is in the Abandoned Wasteland/private subforum that is only accessible to global moderators. this means the thread can no longer be seen by a normal user's view. only time i can think of a thread maybe being deleted if it's the lowest of the low bottom feeder dogshit donkeypiss in the sewers type of thread
McEndu

tapperruiii wrote:

wasteland doesn't equal deleted threads, a wastelanded thread is a thread that is in the Abandoned Wasteland/private subforum that is only accessible to global moderators. this means the thread can no longer be seen by a normal user's view. only time i can think of a thread maybe being wastelanded if it's the lowest of the low bottom feeder dogshit donkeypiss in the sewers type of thread
so it's functionally deleted to the normal ot shitposter

(normal ot shitposter: not overlord)
Patatitta
anyways this is probably one of the greatest threads in the history of ot
Behrauder
This thread was definitely AI-generated. If the OP had just written "Improve my English by only changing what's necessary: [Text]" or "Translate to English: [Text]" to the AI, the text would probably sound more human. It feels like they just said "write a text in English about this: [Confusing ideas presented in a disorganized way that AI somehow always understands]", and then maybe "make it longer". It makes me wonder if there are people who can't tell the difference between AI and human writing.

Wait, this gave me the idea to make a thread called "ITT: We talk like AI", but with a title that sounds like it was AI-generated. I probably won't do it though, I don't feel motivated enough, lol.
CLICKMACHINE
I stubbed my toe — and I definitely feel it 🥀🥀🥀
BlueChinchompa
Hello and welcome to osu! lets learn how to play.
tapperruiii
hi im new how to play piano levels?
BlueChinchompa

tapperruiii wrote:

hi im new how to play piano levels?
you gotta install piano tiles
MrMcMikey22
cant go wrong playing that piano with a horse
tapperruiii
i mean the keyboard piano tile levels in the game it keeps giving me fruit levels
show more
Please sign in to reply.

New reply