Thanks for the explanation, makes perfect sense nowTom94 wrote:
This is probably the reason. In the graph you can see how the amount of BPM difference increases between each of these "steps". Those breakpoints are where the 32 note stream starts being completely contained within one less of these intervals.GhostFrog wrote:
With so few notes, this could be another little quirk related to the fact that tom's difficulty algorithm breaks the map into short time intervals and chooses the highest strain from each. Or at least it did back in the days of tp. Probably still does.
If you'd want to compare the difficulties of such streams I suggest you make a map at least 30 seconds long where you just repeat those streams with a short break inbetween. Sadly there could still be aliasing artifacts when the BPM and the time interval share common divisors, but they shouldn't be as bad.
The sudden knack at 300 BPM is by the way currently caused by a hard cap avoiding singularities in maps putting some hitobjects 1ms or even 0ms apart. I should probably make that higher now that some people actually start to pull off 300bpm scores.
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Performance Points feedback and suggestions (Standard)
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This, the reward curve for HR is incredibly steep so the only way it rewards you is if you get 99+% acc or if you're playing a 3+ minute map.Riince wrote:
also because most people don't have high acc.
Even 6 minute maps give little under 98.5% unless it's a map that's hard to FC.
ZenithPhantasm
Well, no.ZenithPhantasm wrote:
And I feel like Hidden aim pp should be 0 because its basically preference.
While it's true that maps can become easier to read with Hidden it's still a lot harder to maintain combo. Hidden is clearly my mostplayed mod and the amount of shitmisses I get with hidden compared to nomod on maps i can play very comfortably(99%+ nomod) is immense. I think the difference could get smaller once I get better but I don't think you'll ever be equally consistent when using hidden.
Playing with HD is like synchronised swimming. Either you love the shit out of it or it absolutely disgusts you. I'm in the latter group.
It only gives too much pp at high AR. ar9 is where hidden give the proper amount of pp. And yes it does make things harder to read.
ZenithPhantasm
It's not very subjective. It makes the object disappear before you have to hit it, so you have to memorise the location, and it makes it much harder to see stacked objects. This isn't subjective. There are very few people who can read HD better at AR9 who have not almost solely played HD and are not used to nomod.
You should know that this is an illness. They do it because they got so used to it that they started sucking when playing with approach circles. It's a similar phenomen to the "cant-play-below AR9.67"-people.ZenithPhantasm wrote:
Whether it makes things harder is somewhat subjective. Ik people who cant go without slapping on HD mod.B1rd wrote:
It only gives too much pp at high AR. ar9 is where hidden give the proper amount of pp. And yes it does make things harder to read.
Endaris wrote:
You should know that this is an illness.
An illness like pokerus maybe AKA the opposite of a problem
Not being able to play maps without HD is definitely a problem. Kind of like people who can't read maps without HR. 
Nomod is the most basic form of osu gameplay. Anybody who can't play it has a huge gap in their skillset that needs to be addressed.
Also, from my personal experience--multiplayer and friend rankings (which I consider more representative of the 'average' osu player)--HD players tend to stick to maps that are easy with HD. All it takes is a bit of note density or complexity to ruin someone's sightread.
Nomod is the most basic form of osu gameplay. Anybody who can't play it has a huge gap in their skillset that needs to be addressed.
Also, from my personal experience--multiplayer and friend rankings (which I consider more representative of the 'average' osu player)--HD players tend to stick to maps that are easy with HD. All it takes is a bit of note density or complexity to ruin someone's sightread.
And its funny how most of HD players (excluding top players) dont understand that you improve at HD by simply NOT playing it and thus play it more and ruin their abillity to play without it.Barusamikosu wrote:
HD players tend to stick to maps that are easy with HD. All it takes is a bit of note density or complexity to ruin someone's sightread.
I should be the master at HD now by your logic.HK_ wrote:
And its funny how most of HD players (excluding top players) dont understand that you improve at HD by simply NOT playing it and thus play it more and ruin their abillity to play without it.Barusamikosu wrote:
HD players tend to stick to maps that are easy with HD. All it takes is a bit of note density or complexity to ruin someone's sightread.
DeletedUser_4329079
There's no valid analogy between what zenny said and the pokerus. Go play some pokemon and find out the difference.Purple wrote:
Endaris wrote:
You should know that this is an illness.
An illness like pokerus maybe AKA the opposite of a problem
Entering fury-mode would be a more fitting pokemon-analogy
You sir deserve a long time silence on forum for spreading such a bullshit. I am curious why you are even able to write here, mods must be very, very patient to handle this. It's not a question from your side, you just made a completly incorrect statment.simply false statmentAnd its funny how most of HD players (excluding top players) dont understand that you improve at HD by simply NOT playing it and thus play it more and ruin their abillity to play without it.
Ontopic:
By analyzing scores on many songs, i see that MANY are played simply DT+HD.
I feel lack of knowladge in one thing:
Does HD pp bonus is calculted from basic score (raw pp from a song) or after DoubleTime (pp score with DT)?
Like...what the actual fuck are you on? I want some of it.HK_ wrote:
And its funny how most of HD players (excluding top players) dont understand that you improve at HD by simply NOT playing it and thus play it more and ruin their abillity to play without it.
You wont literally master it by not playing it but you will get better at it.Kheldragar wrote:
I should be the master at HD now by your logic.
And its something from my personal experience, zero guessing, so i dont really expect you to understand until you experience it.
I play with HD 99% of the time but I still find nomod easier
You cannot get better at something by not playing it.
You can at HD because it requires timing and aim (and memorisation but thats pretty irrelevant here) - something that comes with playing no mod. And being able to play more complex patterns with HD comes with being able to play even more complex patterns no mod.
But you can also improve your timing and aim by playing Hidden while also improving your memorization. What's more is that hidden will start to come to you more naturally because you're actually playing the damn mod.
That's like saying nomod is a good way to improve at Hard Rock. Sure, you're learning to aim and get accuracy better, but why the fuck aren't you just playing HR if you want to learn HR? They'll never be the same and experience playing WITH the mod is far more valuable for playing the mod than experience playing WITHOUT the mod.
That's like saying nomod is a good way to improve at Hard Rock. Sure, you're learning to aim and get accuracy better, but why the fuck aren't you just playing HR if you want to learn HR? They'll never be the same and experience playing WITH the mod is far more valuable for playing the mod than experience playing WITHOUT the mod.
You get better at HR with no mod by playing higher AR/CS/OD.
You get better with DT by playing faster maps and higher BPM no mod.
You get better with HD by simply playing no mod.
About FL...well i have no clue since i never played it.
And my point is: WHY the heck would you limit yourself to a single mod by playing it if you can learn all of them (a bit slower) at once by playing no mod?
After all HR/DT are just more difficult no mod.
You get better with DT by playing faster maps and higher BPM no mod.
You get better with HD by simply playing no mod.
About FL...well i have no clue since i never played it.
And my point is: WHY the heck would you limit yourself to a single mod by playing it if you can learn all of them (a bit slower) at once by playing no mod?
After all HR/DT are just more difficult no mod.
The better question is why even play with mods at all until you get high ranked enough to stop earning PP from nomod? Don't learn mods early, kids.HK_ wrote:
And my point is: WHY the heck would you limit yourself to a single mod by playing it if you can learn all of them (a bit slowe) at once by playing no mod?.
Please find me a ranked nomod AR10 OD10 CS5.2 mapHK_ wrote:
You get better with HR with no mod by playing higher AR/CS/OD.
HR will always be better for learning HR
I doubt you're even on the level where playing HR actually gives you AR10 OD10 so you probably can't even speak from experience on this.
99% of active players don't actually play at a level where DT actually requires skill, and high BPM nomod is very different to high BPM DT maps. Contrast something like Image Material to something like SeveN DT.HK_ wrote:
You get better with DT by playing faster maps and higher BPM no mod.
Nothing at nomod will help you aim at circles that aren't there anymore. Play HD to learn HD, because there's nothing else in the game like HD.HK_ wrote:
You get better with HD by simply playing.
...no, they're vastly different in requirements. HD is the closest mod to being nomod.HK_ wrote:
After all HR/DT are just more difficult no mod.
Mahoganytooth wrote:
The better question is why even play with mods at all until you get high ranked enough to stop earning PP from nomod? Don't learn mods early, kids.
Kids you heard him.
Please find me a ranked nomod AR10 OD10 CS5.2 map
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/216979 Just wait for it (not quite CS5 but you have plenty of maps with it). And you can edit too, i never said it has to be ranked.
I doubt you're even on the level where playing HR actually gives you AR10 OD10 so you probably can't even speak from experience on this.
lol
high BPM nomod is very different to high BPM DT maps.
ask val0108
Nothing at nomod will help you aim at circles that aren't there anymore. Play HD to learn HD, because there's nothing else in the game like HD.
No comment
...no, they're vastly different in requirements. HD is the closest mod to being nomod.
At AR/OD/CS/HP10 HR does literally nothing so thats 50% wrong.
Edit BPM (not in editor -_-) to one you get with DT and thats...well...DT without DT so now you are 100% wrong.
You get better at HR with no mod by playing higher AR/CS/OD.WTB reasonable amount of AR10, OD9.8, HP10, CS5.2 maps NOMOD.
"Hard Rock (named after the hardest difficulty of the DS game Elite Beat Agents) decreases hit circle size by 1 tick while increasing the overall difficulty, approach rate, and the HP drain by 2 or 3 ticks of their original value up to a maximum of 10. The difference in AR is often hard to notice except when used on maps with an original AR of 7 or greater, as it will push the AR to the maximum value of 10. Hard Rock can be a very difficult mod (especially on insane maps) as it not only demands higher cursor accuracy, it also requires the ability to read lightning-fast approach circles. " - Osu!Wiki
You get better with DT by playing faster maps and higher BPM no mod."Double Time increases the overall beatmap's speed to 150% of the original, reducing the length of the song by 33%. This might be considered deceptive because the BPM is not actually doubled, despite being called "Double Time". The method used to increase the speed doesn't increase the pitch of the song, but can make it sound "muddy".
Because the song is sped up, the approach rate also increases, which often makes it quite difficult when paired with Hard Rock. " - Osu!Wiki
Additionaly:
AR: " Double Time: The AR value doesn't change, but the 1.5x play speed causes circles to stay on screen 33% shorter. " (Osu!Wiki), https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/File:ARTable.png
OD: "Double Time: The OD value doesn't change, but the 1.5x play speed causes hit windows to be 33% shorter. " (Osu!Wiki) https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/File:ODTable.png
That's all what i say about pure facts and diffrence betwin nomod and this 2 mods. In a way where you do not deny this.
Do you seriously not realise that by editing a map in a proper way you can get same effects you get with DT/HR except when paired together and give AR/OD/HP11???
Can you guys please take this to the Pointless Argument Thread instead of cluttering up this one?
Just copy&paste my honest question to experienced players:
By analyzing scores on many songs, i see that MANY are played simply DT+HD.
I feel lack of knowladge in one thing:
Does HD pp bonus is calculted from basic score (raw pp from a song) or after DoubleTime (pp score with DT)?
By analyzing scores on many songs, i see that MANY are played simply DT+HD.
I feel lack of knowladge in one thing:
Does HD pp bonus is calculted from basic score (raw pp from a song) or after DoubleTime (pp score with DT)?
PP formula isnt available to public because that would lead to making real pp maps.
Just copy miiro an daidai genome.HK_ wrote:
PP formula isnt available to public because that would lead to making real pp maps.
Wouldnt OD10 and ton of fullscreen jumps be better? With DT of course.Kheldragar wrote:
Just copy miiro an daidai genome.HK_ wrote:
PP formula isnt available to public because that would lead to making real pp maps.
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PP formula isnt available to public because that would lead to making real pp maps.
gg you got me
Of course you can. But then you've edited a map to be DT or HR of the original map.HK_ wrote:
Do you seriously not realise that by editing a map in a proper way you can get same effects you get with DT/HR except when paired together and give AR/OD/HP11???
This map is, again, one of those "This is so ridiculously difficult" maps that it's inclusion of AR10 OD10 and lower CS than normal is excusable. You're cherry picking the exceptions here.HK_ wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/216979 Just wait for it (not quite CS5 but you have plenty of maps with it). And you can edit too, i never said it has to be ranked.
Don't blame me for making judgements, man. Your #2 #3 and #4 top ranks are all 2 star maps.HK_ wrote:
lol
Who?HK_ wrote:
ask val0108
No fucking shit, dumbass, but the reason people use HR is to GET those values. Who the fuck even makes maps with that small CS except for Irreversible?HK_ wrote:
At AR/OD/CS/HP10 HR does literally nothing so thats 50% wrong.
...no, you literally just made the map DT. Not to mention with this you don't get the increased AR and ODHK_ wrote:
Edit BPM (not in editor -_-) to one you get with DT and thats...well...DT without DT so now you are 100% wrong.
Mahoganytooth wrote:
Of course you can. But then you've edited a map to be DT or HR of the original map.
That would be same as saying "Your AR/OD10 map is unrankable because its a HR of an original" to a mapper. Please never do that.
This map is, again, one of those "This is so ridiculously difficult" maps that it's inclusion of AR10 OD10 and lower CS than normal is excusable. You're cherry picking the exceptions here.
You are the one picking here. You asked for a map, i gave you a map. Thats it.
Don't blame me for making judgements, man. Your #2 #3 and #4 top ranks are all 2 star maps.
I wouldnt blame you if you actualy dared to look at my #1. I think itd be pretty damn hard to spam out 97% on a map 2 stars above my level.
No fucking shit, dumbass, but the reason people use HR is to GET those values. Who the fuck even makes maps with that small CS except for Irreversible?
There is someone who actually uses CS10??? The more you know...
And they are using HR to get 1,06x score boost not those values lmao
...no, you literally just made the map DT. Not to mention with this you don't get the increased AR and OD
Where did DT go to then? Its a no mod DT of that map. Deal with it.
But you dont need AR10,3/11 up until crazy high rank.your words not mine sryMahoganytooth wrote:
normal rules stop applying at the highest levels of play
PP formula isnt available to public because that would lead to making real pp maps.https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Performance_Points - FULL PP FORMULA FOR EACH GAME MODE
If you want to spam your bs more, create a topic in OT and post it there, stop spamming here and provoking people.
kthxbai.
Reposting since there is way too much spam here and i cannot get answer for pretty technical and important for me question.
By analyzing scores on many songs, i see that MANY are played simply DT+HD.
I feel lack of knowladge in one thing:
Does HD pp bonus is calculted from basic score (raw pp from a song) or after DoubleTime (pp score with DT)?
But if something is a copy of another map with just changed OD and AR that is unrankable AFAIK.HK_ wrote:
That would be same as saying "Your AR/OD10 map is unrankable because its a HR of an original" to a mapper. Please never do that.
I was asking for a map as a rhetorical statement to get you thinking about how few maps have high AR and OD, but you're too thick to get that through your tiny skull.HK_ wrote:
You are the one picking here. You asked for a map, i gave you a map. Thats it.
Your number 1 score is shit AND on a farm map, but it makes more of a point to show that you play 2 star maps.HK_ wrote:
I wouldnt blame you if you actualy dared to look at my #1.
CS7 is the highest CS you can use in a normal map IIRC.HK_ wrote:
There is someone who actually uses CS10??? The more you know...
No, the majority are using HR to get those values to get increased PP gain, twat.HK_ wrote:
And they are using HR to get 1,06x score boost not those values lmao
Please tell me what you're smoking so I can get someHK_ wrote:
Where did DT go to then? Its a no mod DT of that map. Deal with it.
You're playing the map in DT except for some reason you decided to make the map unranked instead of actually playing the ranked version with DT to have a proper experience.
You don't "need" AR10.3 at all, and nobody even sightreads AR11.HK_ wrote:
But you dont need AR10,3/11 up until crazy high rank.
The main reason for that statement is that people generally come here for advice, we give them a set of rules and guidelines to follow. High ranked players know their shit and don't need rules or guidelines to follow because they already fucking know how to play and improve well.HK_ wrote:
your words not mine sry