Go try it.asior wrote:
Wow..
So play on easy, get better acc (but worst score) and gain more pp than play without mods but with fc and tragic acc. seems legit...
"Wow, I just wasted my time" in 3... 2...
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"Wow, I just wasted my time" in 3... 2...
asior_old
Tom94 wrote:
The easy map won't give you anything because it's... easy? pp is completely based on map difficulty.asior wrote:
Wow..
So play on easy, get better acc (but worst score) and gain more pp than play without mods but with fc and tragic acc. seems legit...
Ekaru wrote:
Go try it.asior wrote:
Wow..
So play on easy, get better acc (but worst score) and gain more pp than play without mods but with fc and tragic acc. seems legit...
"Wow, I just wasted my time" in 3... 2...
I mean mod, not map type.
the scarlet rose being the hardest map is a joke on the forums lol, it's not really that hard (only hard to fc, not to get high acc)dennischan wrote:
People said that Scarlet Rose was the hardest map in existence (according to forums)
Why is it ranked so low in tp?
Is this map underrated?
Adult's toy is also seriously underrated. You can ask almost everyone and find that the consider Adult's Toy harder than say, some random high tp diff such as recommended spell (Spell)
I suggest maybe high bpm songs should rated higher.
That mod makes most Insanes a lot harder to FC while killing your score modifier. >_>asior wrote:
I mean mod, not map type.
EZ mod gives you huge circles, which makes aim trivial and lowers the score you get from aim. It halves the OD, which makes accuracy trivial and lowers the score you get from accuracy. If you have a short stream, the lower OD will significantly reduce the speed required and lower the score you get from speed.asior wrote:
I mean mod, not map type.
You'll get a small bonus for the low AR, but overall, EZ mod counts for very little, even with a FC.
If reading difficulty is ever implemented, EZ mod might be worth playing for points on some maps.
Honestly i like the new system. In the past i could only get pp for doing new song, now i can play any map. Also its made me want to improve old scores. Although some songs do give out more pp even though they are not that hard.
I found a mistake in the calculations in osutp and I'm wondering if it's the same for the current pp system. When adding the Half Time mod the speed gets multiplied by 0.75, so AR and OD times need to be multiplied by 4/3. The beatmap difficulty on osutp shows different values, though. E.g. ar10 with Half Time becomes ar8.5 instead of ar9 (for correct values check GhostFrog's post in p/2858736). Same issue with OD. I don't know if even the aim and speed values are affected by this, but it might be a good idea to check it out.
Topic Starter
Thanks for pointing that out. I'm pretty damn sure, that I already fixed this at some point - the website even shows the correct multiplier on the info page. Well, gotta fix it again.Ziggo wrote:
I found a mistake in the calculations in osutp and I'm wondering if it's the same for the current pp system. When adding the Half Time mod the speed gets multiplied by 0.75, so AR and OD times need to be multiplied by 4/3. The beatmap difficulty on osutp shows different values, though. E.g. ar10 with Half Time becomes ar8.5 instead of ar9 (for correct values check GhostFrog's post in https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/2858736). Same issue with OD. I don't know if even the aim and speed values are affected by this, but it might be a good idea to check it out.
EDIT: Done.
That mistake is my fault, sorry ._. Tear already pointed it out for me and I forgot to update the table on the wiki and eventually the wrong HT multipliers got passed on to other things... gotta remember to do it aaaa
wait what i just gained 190pp what happened
what does the recent change to pp actually mean?
" Performance: [Tom94] Increase pp-value of scores which excel in one category."
what does the recent change to pp actually mean?
" Performance: [Tom94] Increase pp-value of scores which excel in one category."
It means if the song is difficult to aim or accuracy or requires a great deal of speed but not difficult in the other categories, then it'll give more pp.tastystew wrote:
wait what i just gained 190pp what happened
what does the recent change to pp actually mean?
" Performance: [Tom94] Increase pp-value of scores which excel in one category."
Just a few quick Yes/No questions (I didn't read the whole thread, so they may have been answered already) 
1. Do you gain a different amount of PP depending on where you hit your 100s/50s (i.e. near the end/beginning)?
1.a. If yes, is it simply based on the combo count, or is it something else?
1.b. If no, are you still rewarded by highly weighted maps even if you perform poorly on the actual "highly weighted part", but play perfectly for the easier sections?
2. Does a sliderbreak count as a miss? (i.e. would a 99% S with a sliderbreak be worth significantly more than a 99% A with a miss?)
3. Are spinners included in the PP formula? Also, would Spun Out affect your PP gain?
4. On the osu!tp info page it mentioned that the speed value is affected by map length. Does this mean (in general) longer maps such as marathons will reward more PP than a shorter map?
Suggestions:
1. Could readability also count towards map difficulty?
Maps like http://osu.ppy.sh/s/7671 are known to be hard for being incredibly confusing (although I suppose people can just memorize everything, so the added value should be somewhere between hidden and flashlight).
2. Although the vast majority would agree that a map with a higher AR is much harder and hence HR should be rewarded as such (also due to the increased values in OD, CS and Drain), most people I have spoken to would also agree that an AR lower than the recommended map AR is also much harder. Hence the order of difficulty would somewhere be along the lines of HR >>> EZ > No Mod.
My suggestion would be to keep the PP reduction for the lowered OD and Drain, but re-evaluate how AR and CS contribute to map difficulty.
3. Another suggestion is to make sliders contribute to accuracy to... some extent. Although I agree it's a free 300 most of the time, getting a 300 should still reward something, and not getting a 300 should give some form of penalty. This map (http://osutp.net/scores?bid=66941) probably isn't the best example, but as of now the PP rewarded for HDDTHR is worth less than a No Mod SS on most 4~5 star maps.
4. One more suggestion is (if possible) to calculate the PP gained from a map based on the score which gives the most PP, and not simply the highest score. For most maps, a No Mod SS is worth significantly more PP than a 97% HD score, despite the latter having a higher score. In such cases, the No Mod SS should be considered as the player's "best play" rather than the HD score (only in terms of PP calculation). A score should only be overwritten if the new score rewards more PP.
Thanks for reading!
1. Do you gain a different amount of PP depending on where you hit your 100s/50s (i.e. near the end/beginning)?
1.a. If yes, is it simply based on the combo count, or is it something else?
1.b. If no, are you still rewarded by highly weighted maps even if you perform poorly on the actual "highly weighted part", but play perfectly for the easier sections?
2. Does a sliderbreak count as a miss? (i.e. would a 99% S with a sliderbreak be worth significantly more than a 99% A with a miss?)
3. Are spinners included in the PP formula? Also, would Spun Out affect your PP gain?
4. On the osu!tp info page it mentioned that the speed value is affected by map length. Does this mean (in general) longer maps such as marathons will reward more PP than a shorter map?
Suggestions:
1. Could readability also count towards map difficulty?
Maps like http://osu.ppy.sh/s/7671 are known to be hard for being incredibly confusing (although I suppose people can just memorize everything, so the added value should be somewhere between hidden and flashlight).2. Although the vast majority would agree that a map with a higher AR is much harder and hence HR should be rewarded as such (also due to the increased values in OD, CS and Drain), most people I have spoken to would also agree that an AR lower than the recommended map AR is also much harder. Hence the order of difficulty would somewhere be along the lines of HR >>> EZ > No Mod.
My suggestion would be to keep the PP reduction for the lowered OD and Drain, but re-evaluate how AR and CS contribute to map difficulty.
3. Another suggestion is to make sliders contribute to accuracy to... some extent. Although I agree it's a free 300 most of the time, getting a 300 should still reward something, and not getting a 300 should give some form of penalty. This map (http://osutp.net/scores?bid=66941) probably isn't the best example, but as of now the PP rewarded for HDDTHR is worth less than a No Mod SS on most 4~5 star maps.
4. One more suggestion is (if possible) to calculate the PP gained from a map based on the score which gives the most PP, and not simply the highest score. For most maps, a No Mod SS is worth significantly more PP than a 97% HD score, despite the latter having a higher score. In such cases, the No Mod SS should be considered as the player's "best play" rather than the HD score (only in terms of PP calculation). A score should only be overwritten if the new score rewards more PP.
Thanks for reading!
Topic Starter
No-ArmoredTitan- wrote:
Just a few quick Yes/No questions (I didn't read the whole thread, so they may have been answered already)
1. Do you gain a different amount of PP depending on where you hit your 100s/50s (i.e. near the end/beginning)?
Sadly no. In the case that per-HitObject data is available this will change, but it's currently not possible.-ArmoredTitan- wrote:
1.b. If no, are you still rewarded by highly weighted maps even if you perform poorly on the actual "highly weighted part", but play perfectly for the easier sections?
It doesn't count as a miss, but as a 100. However it indirectly reduces your gained pp by breaking your combo.-ArmoredTitan- wrote:
2. Does a sliderbreak count as a miss? (i.e. would a 99% S with a sliderbreak be worth significantly more than a 99% A with a miss?)
Spinners are included as having to aim to the center and move a big. They are pretty much negligible. SpunOut multiplies the pp you gain from that particular score by 0.95.-ArmoredTitan- wrote:
3. Are spinners included in the PP formula? Also, would Spun Out affect your PP gain?
If they have the same difficulty, then yes.-ArmoredTitan- wrote:
4. On the osu!tp info page it mentioned that the speed value is affected by map length. Does this mean (in general) longer maps such as marathons will reward more PP than a shorter map?
It's planned, but for now all the "readability" that pp considers is ApproachRate.-ArmoredTitan- wrote:
Suggestions:
1. Could readability also count towards map difficulty?
AR below 8 and above 10 already give bonuses. The bonus below 8 is further amplified by Hidden.-ArmoredTitan- wrote:
2. Although the vast majority would agree that a map with a higher AR is much harder and hence HR should be rewarded as such (also due to the increased values in OD, CS and Drain), most people I have spoken to would also agree that an AR lower than the recommended map AR is also much harder. Hence the order of difficulty would somewhere be along the lines of HR >>> EZ > No Mod.
My suggestion would be to keep the PP reduction for the lowered OD and Drain, but re-evaluate how AR and CS contribute to map difficulty.
Not getting a 300 on a slider is heavily penalized by the way sliders are "excluded" when speaking about accuracy. You're right, that it would make sense to give them some small value still, I'll think about how to properly add that into the equation.-ArmoredTitan- wrote:
3. Another suggestion is to make sliders contribute to accuracy to... some extent. Although I agree it's a free 300 most of the time, getting a 300 should still reward something, and not getting a 300 should give some form of penalty. This map (http://osutp.net/scores?bid=66941) probably isn't the best example, but as of now the PP rewarded for HDDTHR is worth less than a No Mod SS on most 4~5 star maps.
Currently this is not possible due to technical limitations, but who knows what the future brings...-ArmoredTitan- wrote:
4. One more suggestion is (if possible) to calculate the PP gained from a map based on the score which gives the most PP, and not simply the highest score. For most maps, a No Mod SS is worth significantly more PP than a 97% HD score, despite the latter having a higher score. In such cases, the No Mod SS should be considered as the player's "best play" rather than the HD score (only in terms of PP calculation). A score should only be overwritten if the new score rewards more PP.
I personally would love to see this.You're welcome!-ArmoredTitan- wrote:
Thanks for reading!
Topic Starter
Some additional info for everyone. The pp formula has been slightly changed and your pp and rank will be fluctuating a bit in the next ~48 hours. Please be patient until the re-calculation is done and be easy on me with your complaints. 
I'm going to wait till that disgusting B rank in my top ranks will disappear.
Suddenly we see the Tom94 in top50 ranks.Tom94 wrote:
Some additional info for everyone. The pp formula has been slightly changed and your pp and rank will be fluctuating a bit in the next ~48 hours. Please be patient until the re-calculation is done and be easy on me with your complaints.
Ohh, interesting.
I'm really interested to see the algorithm since I've been moved down ranks (even though im a DT player) and other DT players have gone up in ranks xD so confused!
EDIT: Nevermind, It updated and I went up ranks
no confuserino
EDIT: Nevermind, It updated and I went up ranks
no confuserino
Topic Starter
I'll drop out again, when everyone has been updated, don't worry. Somehow I knew someone would end up pointing stuff like that out... <-<Plaatinum wrote:
Suddenly we see the Tom94 in top50 ranks.Tom94 wrote:
Some additional info for everyone. The pp formula has been slightly changed and your pp and rank will be fluctuating a bit in the next ~48 hours. Please be patient until the re-calculation is done and be easy on me with your complaints.
FL has been buffed... will see if it is enough.CXu wrote:
@Tom94 Just thought I'd link back to my post since you might've missed it or something (orsuperignoremakingmesad.) Since you've changed the algorithm though, maybe stuff have changed already.
p/2854921
Recalculate points pls.
After update i had 4800pp (4351-->4800)
Then i pass one map and i lost 639 pp (4800-->4361)
as if I have gained points to the old pps(4351+10)
Something is wrong :/
After update i had 4800pp (4351-->4800)
Then i pass one map and i lost 639 pp (4800-->4361)
as if I have gained points to the old pps(4351+10)
Something is wrong :/
Topic Starter
Don't worry, things will stabilize soon enough. The initial gigantic rise in ranks was not intended and has been fixed.K_N wrote:
Recalculate points pls.
After update i had 4800pp (4351-->4800)
Then i pass one map and i lost 639 pp (4800-->4361)
as if I have gained points to the old pps(4351+10)
Something is wrong :/
How long will the full re-calculation take? and how different is the new formula from the previous one?
Got a pleasant boost in ranks so I don't mind if the rankings stay as they are lol
Same thing happened to me, but remember thatK_N wrote:
Recalculate points pls.
After update i had 4800pp (4351-->4800)
Then i pass one map and i lost 639 pp (4800-->4361)
as if I have gained points to the old pps(4351+10)
Something is wrong :/
Tom94 wrote:
...your pp and rank will be fluctuating a bit in the next ~48 hours. Please be patient until the re-calculation is done and be easy on me with your complaints.
Are the updates mostly done now? And do you have a changelog of what you've been doing with pp (Nvm checked official changelog). Or are you waiting to make stuff like that public until the algorithm goes public?
pp got recalculated, your post = qq.
lol
I was top 500 for a few hours :> then I went back to my old pp value - 3 :<
[qq]i'm lower than the initial pp i started with[/qq]
Increase pp-value of scores which excel in one categoryWas it already said what that one category was, and if not, can you tell us what it is Tom?
If you actually read before...Myke B wrote:
Was it already said what that one category was, and if not, can you tell us what it is Tom?
It's the same categories as in tp.Almost wrote:
It means if the song is difficult to aim or accuracy or requires a great deal of speed but not difficult in the other categories, then it'll give more pp.tastystew wrote:
wait what i just gained 190pp what happened
what does the recent change to pp actually mean?
" Performance: [Tom94] Increase pp-value of scores which excel in one category."
I think it means that if a score has 2 low value tiers and 1 really high tier that it will be weighted more than it was before. e.g. a map with 200 aim, 20 speed, 20 accuracy was weighted 240 before, now its worth 280, but its just a guess.Myke B wrote:
Increase pp-value of scores which excel in one categoryWas it already said what that one category was, and if not, can you tell us what it is Tom?
Is this still half fixed?
Because Yesterday I went from 560ish>615 and my friend went from 660ish>804, And now I'm back at 551 and my friend is still at 804?
Because Yesterday I went from 560ish>615 and my friend went from 660ish>804, And now I'm back at 551 and my friend is still at 804?
buny wrote:
[qq]i'm lower than the initial pp i started with[/qq]
Topic Starter
Get your friend to make some new high-scores on any map. That should trigger an immediate re-calculation of his pp. If his rank doesn't go back up a while after that, then he will most likely stay at 804.Takuji wrote:
Is this still half fixed?
Because Yesterday I went from 560ish>615 and my friend went from 660ish>804, And now I'm back at 551 and my friend is still at 804?
Ah okay, thanks for the fast responser :3Tom94 wrote:
Get your friend to make some new high-scores on any map. That should trigger an immediate re-calculation of his pp. If his rank doesn't go back up a while after that, then he will most likely stay at 804.Takuji wrote:
Is this still half fixed?
Because Yesterday I went from 560ish>615 and my friend went from 660ish>804, And now I'm back at 551 and my friend is still at 804?
I was just curious (sorry if this has already been answered) how is BPM factored into the PP calculation?
I've just noticed a very easy, high BPM song (in comparison to my other scores) has risen to my top performance (DT + Hard, A rank) rather than some of the more difficult insanes I've FCed. Maybe it's just an outlier, but I haven't seen this happen before.
I've just noticed a very easy, high BPM song (in comparison to my other scores) has risen to my top performance (DT + Hard, A rank) rather than some of the more difficult insanes I've FCed. Maybe it's just an outlier, but I haven't seen this happen before.