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ColdTooth
Nate Bait

abraker wrote:

Mapper ends a note at the end to ensure the map has a minimum drain time of 0:30 seconds as required by ranking criteria. Oppositions to this ensue.
https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/885878/discussion/-/generalAll#/889682


oh that's funny, i've played this map! it's ranked now >w<
Topic Starter
abraker
not intense drama, but still somewhat drama and very relevant
Isshiki Kaname

ColdTooth wrote:

if you map for pp you should kys

couldn't agree more to this sentence.
Zelzatter Zero
I think you should add this too:
https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/740752/discussion/-/generalAll#/178643
Kisses reported the map, which was qualified at that time, using the meme song that's not "suitable content for the game at all".
Castagne
uhh this map is already on the list so why add it twice?
Zelzatter Zero

Castagne wrote:

uhh this map is already on the list so why add it twice?

maybe i skipped them
Sponchi
.
Topic Starter
abraker
new entry in a while!

beatmapsets/897884/discussion/-/generalAll#/1514685 - Map vetoed for underhitsounded section. Mapper refuses to add hitsounds and modders can't reach consenus. Mediation is triggered and veto upheld with questionable reasoning.
levesterz
Under hit sound is better than over hitsound
Even better is no hitsound at all.
levesterz
Which lead to the question define enough hitsound
V0lta
Ah yes, ye olde beef
Zelzatter Zero
Another drama guys!

beatmapsets/934576/discussion/-/generalAll#/1577482

Map being veto'd for having diffname of "Mama Mia!". Some say it's related to the song, some don't.
ColdTooth
So we're fucking vetoing over a fucking difficulty name that is legit with the song?

Well there goes every single one of my maps, now and into the future. Looks like Critical Hit is never going to get fucking ranked. /shrug
Penguin

ColdTooth wrote:

So we're fucking vetoing over a fucking difficulty name that is legit with the song?

Well there goes every single one of my maps, now and into the future. Looks like Critical Hit is never going to get fucking ranked. /shrug
I'd be extremely surprised if they didn't allow the top diff of your map to be called "Critical Hit!" on a song called "Critical Hit"

I haven't been active in the mapping scene for a while, so I don't know if they've massively changed any of the rules, but if it's the same as before then you'll be fine.
ColdTooth

Penguin wrote:

ColdTooth wrote:

So we're fucking vetoing over a fucking difficulty name that is legit with the song?

Well there goes every single one of my maps, now and into the future. Looks like Critical Hit is never going to get fucking ranked. /shrug
I'd be extremely surprised if they didn't allow the top diff of your map to be called "Critical Hit!" on a song called "Critical Hit"

I haven't been active in the mapping scene for a while, so I don't know if they've massively changed any of the rules, but if it's the same as before then you'll be fine.
I mean, I'd be surprised too, and I'd ultimately quit mapping tbh. This nonsensical bullshit of BNs disagreeing with one small little thing when everything else is perfectly fine, and then vetoing over it is literally fucking stupid.

God knows what happens if I end up finishing the 2 hour map project.
Topic Starter
abraker
Std ranking process is a circus holy shit
Dialect
are people really that sensitive over DIFF NAMES? first it was a background of 3 big tiddied girls, now maps get disqualified because of A FUCKING DIFF NAME? like what?
ColdTooth

MinNin wrote:

are people really that sensitive over DIFF NAMES? first it was a background of 3 big tiddied girls, now maps get disqualified because of A FUCKING DIFF NAME? like what?
the background one makes sense

but a fucking difficulty name? if it's really not relevant then yeah, but if it's atleast recognizable then like bruh moment
Ashton
Thankfully it looks like a lot of BNs are disagreeing with them.

Being this bothered by a diffname is kind of ridiculous. It does nothing to deter the quality of the map and was even proven to have some resemblance to the song.

I honestly believe a diffname can be whatever the fuck it wants to be as long as it isnt breaking any rule. Its the top diff of a set, it is allowed to have a custom name. It gives the mapper creative liberty that, again, doesn’t do anything to the quality of the map.

They should decide to stop the mediation so the set can get on its way, but regardless of all of the negative output they have received, they wish to still continue with the mediation?? At this point they are just trying to waste the mappers time, as well as all of the people who have to sift through the entire shitwad of a conversation to give their vote on the veto mediation.
levesterz
This is why std map dont have creativity.xd
Nuuskamuikkunen
What's next? Making a drama because of the anime girl in the BG has 3 ponytails instead of 2?
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
On the same topic but not really, beatmapsets/1015663/discussion/-/generalAll#/1477100 - Map's nomination got reset for overmapping, including the excess usage of LN, quad, and jack according to BNs. Mapper refuses to to fix, stating that the BNs don't understand the map's concept.
qwt
Leave me alone
ColdTooth

Reforms Expert wrote:

Leave me alone
I don't think we can.
Topic Starter
abraker
I am so disappointed it was Unpredictable who took down that map. And there I thought there is hope he wouldnt get corrupted by the cult.
Ashton

abraker wrote:

I am so disappointed it was Unpredictable who took down that map. And there I thought there is hope he wouldnt get corrupted by the cult.
heeey pls don't clump BN's who veto over serious quality issues with BN's who veto over a diffname. They are completely different and the veto system is important to insure we have some quality assurance.
Topic Starter
abraker
I'm sure there are BN who do good at time and same BN who do bad at times. It's the bad we remember more of unfortunately.
q9za

Reforms Expert wrote:

Leave me alone
nO
Dialect

ColdTooth wrote:

the background one makes sense
yeah but the problem is, sotarks can get a map of big tiddied anime girls ranked AFTER the controversy, and if it were 3 dudes in speedos instead of 3 girls in swimsuits, i bet none of the bns would actually notice and it'd get ranked soon enough. no shade on sotarks, but it's a double standard
Ashton
Three dudes in speedos?

Mmmm

Bulge fanservice!
Dialect

Ashton wrote:

Three dudes in speedos?

Mmmm

Bulge fanservice!
i mean i'm not gay but it'd be pretty hot no homo
Ashton

MinNin wrote:

Ashton wrote:

Three dudes in speedos?

Mmmm

Bulge fanservice!
i mean i'm not gay but it'd be pretty hot no homo
I'm not gay either and I find it hot asf!


The veto has been dismissed and the map is moving forward with the ranking section. I'm glad it wasn't drawn out long, but disappointed it happened in the first place.
Hydreigon
ColdTooth

Hydreigon wrote:

oh my fucking god man this is gold
q9za
I don't find 3 men in speedos hot, fortunately.
DeletedUser_5153421
i always wanted to be on a list like this when i first started mapping
Topic Starter
abraker
Ranking Criteria has a lot of things yet to be abused. Tho it requires effort to abuse them, so good luck.

Also kinda feels ranked is getting to the point its obvious it will be in eternal state of turmoil so long as there are people involved with choosing which maps get to ranked and which dont. People have been fixing issues with ranked since the MAT. You would think 10 years is enough time to figure out how to make something that cant be abused. Making systems requiring people's trust will eventually fail. What's most disappointing is that it's considered a working system. I consider it a barely working system if you need to change role structure every 2-3 years or introduce regular fixes to prevent people from abusing their privilege.
Ashton
Can you stop preaching that bullshit abraker?

No system that is not run by people is going to fix the ‘constant turmoil’ or whatever... its actually not a problem in standard mode anymore and the system works fairly well. If anything its a mania exclusive problem. Because you seem to be one of the very few people complaining about lack of variety in ranked section.

There are only a few instances where bns/nat make stupid decisions which cause a big ruckus but because of things like veto mediation they usually don’t make it through anyways.

I dont want to have another 3 hour long conversation with you because you can never seem to get it. Weren’t you working on making that proposal for a new catagory? Work on that instead of shitting on a system that you don’t like yet not offering any other viable alternative.
Topic Starter
abraker
Yea you can defend ranked all you want. However you cant deny that that there is still ongoing effort to prevent abuse. Recent effort to fix veto abuse is one example. Last restructure was when QAT got changed to NAT. I bet ranked roles will go through another restructuring in about a year and a half.
Dialect

abraker wrote:

Yea you can defend ranked all you want. However you cant deny that that there is still ongoing effort to prevent abuse. Recent effort to fix veto abuse is one example. Last restructure was when QAT got changed to NAT. I bet ranked roles will go through another restructuring in about a year and a half.
honestly i kind of don't really care at this point. the mapping and player community are really divided on certain things imo
Ashton

abraker wrote:

Yea you can defend ranked all you want. However you cant deny that that there is still ongoing effort to prevent abuse. Recent effort to fix veto abuse is one example. Last restructure was when QAT got changed to NAT. I bet ranked roles will go through another restructuring in about a year and a half.
The ranked system will always be changing and improvements will always be made. You keep blaming it and calling it bad but you have not once suggested a viable alternative.

The fundamental ranking process will never change and has never changed. Yes, teams got restructured, roles got mismatched, and vetos got reworked. But your map will always need real people to push it forward and there will always be the option for real people to keep it back. This has been the case since the creation of osu! (One could argue the early years didn't have vetos and almost any map was pushed forward but that is no longer relevant...). If anything, small changes will occur, but your problem with the system will never be fixed no matter how many changes it goes through.

The people in charge of ranking maps are not paid. Nobody is entitled to BN's. This will never change for as long as the ranking process exists. The only option to 'fix' this is to move to an automated system. Which already has several issues. And it's never going to happen.

The 'issue' of there not being enough variety in ranked mania maps is one that can not be solved with a system reform. I have said this dozens of times yet you keep on acting as if it is an issue caused by the system. That isn't the case. It's an 'issue' that is the result of the low population of mania mappers and modders. If you want to push your 'interesting' and 'unique' maps forward then stop complaining and (like I said before...) become a mania BN yourself or push forward your own maps. Help the community by modding a ton.

If you aren't motivated to do it, then who else do you have to blame besides you? Nobody.
q9za

Ashton wrote:

No system that is not run by people is going to fix the ‘constant turmoil’ or whatever
soon...

I also have to agree with Ashton, since this game requires users to make it's content, those users have the ability to shape the content to what they desire. If abraker wants different kinds of content, then abraker needs to push and approve of content that he wants.

Until a self-taught viable AI is produced, we rely on user manpower and their desires.
Topic Starter
abraker
Ashton, you are arguing that ranked must continue as it is because things like having maps checked for ranked is necessary. It is indeed necessary for ranked that maps continue to be checked. I don't think it would be ranked otherwise. You are describing ranked as a functional system, which it is for what it is. If it's considered normal that there is a restructuring every certain time period, then ranked can also be considered functioning properly.

Tho I'll admit it's hard to make a suggestion for a alternative system in which people don't actively making decisions. It's harder to understand how that can work and not break. So I wouldn't expect a formal suggestion until I have evidence that it can work. I can give an informal one if anyone is curious tho.

@q9za you don't need AI to figure out which maps are good or not. You can take advantage of community's passive behavior to do that instead.
Ashton
Finally you realize now that ranked is a functioning system and no amount of complaining will fix your own individual problem of not wanting to put effort into your maps to get them ranked. Thank you
ColdTooth
>the ranked system will always be changing

so does that means critical hit will actually have bns modding it this year? or next decade?
Ashton

ColdTooth wrote:

>the ranked system will always be changing

so does that means critical hit will actually have bns modding it this year? or next decade?
How much BNs did you end up asking?

Your map seems like one some will be interested in. Pimp and Andrea are the first ones that come to mind but its a clean map with an old mapping style and some bns love maps like that

But yeah, even if youve already asked every single bn and they all said they arent interested youd need to wait for new ones to come in. Its really shitty that is the case but its not like we can start forcing bns to nominate maps they arent onterested in even if they are solid
ColdTooth

Ashton wrote:

ColdTooth wrote:

>the ranked system will always be changing

so does that means critical hit will actually have bns modding it this year? or next decade?
How much BNs did you end up asking?

Your map seems like one some will be interested in. Pimp and Andrea are the first ones that come to mind but its a clean map with an old mapping style and some bns love maps like that

But yeah, even if youve already asked every single bn and they all said they arent interested youd need to wait for new ones to come in. Its really shitty that is the case but its not like we can start forcing bns to nominate maps they arent onterested in even if they are solid
I actually asked pimp, since he's my friend, but he would only bubble if I found a second BN. Every single BN's profile I have looked at, ~70% of them they don't mod tech, or just prefer anime music over anything. I think I overall asked ~5 BNs, and they all just said no.

I have one more BN I can ask but right now I'm not in the grandest of moods to even do something like this, and they are currently closed so I can either wait (that and I need to wait for my new headphones to come in...) or I can just hope a BN in the future can look at the map and give it some thought.

Seriously, trying not to offend the BN team here but goddamn it's really annoying to find the right person, especially when they're all closed.
ColdTooth
You know what's even worse? I woke up one day and suddenly found out the artist is now a FA. It actually pissed me off so much.
Ashton

ColdTooth wrote:

Ashton wrote:

ColdTooth wrote:

>the ranked system will always be changing

so does that means critical hit will actually have bns modding it this year? or next decade?
How much BNs did you end up asking?

Your map seems like one some will be interested in. Pimp and Andrea are the first ones that come to mind but its a clean map with an old mapping style and some bns love maps like that

But yeah, even if youve already asked every single bn and they all said they arent interested youd need to wait for new ones to come in. Its really shitty that is the case but its not like we can start forcing bns to nominate maps they arent onterested in even if they are solid
I actually asked pimp, since he's my friend, but he would only bubble if I found a second BN. Every single BN's profile I have looked at, ~70% of them they don't mod tech, or just prefer anime music over anything. I think I overall asked ~5 BNs, and they all just said no.

I have one more BN I can ask but right now I'm not in the grandest of moods to even do something like this, and they are currently closed so I can either wait (that and I need to wait for my new headphones to come in...) or I can just hope a BN in the future can look at the map and give it some thought.

Seriously, trying not to offend the BN team here but goddamn it's really annoying to find the right person, especially when they're all closed.
Don't take my word for it but honestly I wouldn't consider critical hit a tech map. If it is one, it's a very soft one because I think tech refers to the mapping style moreso than the song.
ColdTooth

Ashton wrote:

ColdTooth wrote:

Ashton wrote:

ColdTooth wrote:

>the ranked system will always be changing

so does that means critical hit will actually have bns modding it this year? or next decade?
How much BNs did you end up asking?

Your map seems like one some will be interested in. Pimp and Andrea are the first ones that come to mind but its a clean map with an old mapping style and some bns love maps like that

But yeah, even if youve already asked every single bn and they all said they arent interested youd need to wait for new ones to come in. Its really shitty that is the case but its not like we can start forcing bns to nominate maps they arent onterested in even if they are solid
I actually asked pimp, since he's my friend, but he would only bubble if I found a second BN. Every single BN's profile I have looked at, ~70% of them they don't mod tech, or just prefer anime music over anything. I think I overall asked ~5 BNs, and they all just said no.

I have one more BN I can ask but right now I'm not in the grandest of moods to even do something like this, and they are currently closed so I can either wait (that and I need to wait for my new headphones to come in...) or I can just hope a BN in the future can look at the map and give it some thought.

Seriously, trying not to offend the BN team here but goddamn it's really annoying to find the right person, especially when they're all closed.
Don't take my word for it but honestly I wouldn't consider critical hit a tech map. If it is one, it's a very soft one because I think tech refers to the mapping style moreso than the song.
was about to also mention, yeah it's more of a light tech
q9za
If the community is willing to play normal short anime song maps and not light tech maps, then aren't the BNs doing their jobs perfectly?
Zelzatter Zero
Uh guys, does the current event about Monstrata getting banned because of saying Cheri's bg low-quality counted as mapping drama?
Topic Starter
abraker
if there is a drama discussion, it does
Ashton

Zelzatter Zero wrote:

Uh guys, does the current event about Monstrata getting banned because of saying Cheri's bg low-quality counted as mapping drama?
I thiught monstrata isnt banned?
Asphiee
Asphyre decided to make inconsistent placement as part of musical representation
beatmapsets/1173307/discussion/2449493/timeline#/1638485

Asphyre argues with modders who can't fathom the concept of mouse acceleration which represents gunshot effect
beatmapsets/1173307/discussion/2449493/timeline#/1619501
Zelzatter Zero

Ashton wrote:

I thiught monstrata isnt banned?
Not anymore, but he's just been restricted just an hour ago.
Topic Starter
abraker
first doesn't have enough people opposing mapper to be drama worthy

second one is turning spicy, need to wait and see how it pans out



Both are prime examples why I hate ranked and modding btw
Topic Starter
abraker
beatmapsets/1182288/discussion/-/generalAll#/1648982 - Mapper is criticized for using self drawn "low quality" background
ColdTooth

abraker wrote:

beatmapsets/1182288/discussion/-/generalAll#/1648982 - Mapper is criticized for using self drawn "low quality" background
read all of this before you posted

this is why i feel so demotivated in mapping even if i keep doing it

someone's just gunna get triggered by one simple thing and tries to force a change
Flanster
When they mad its not a swimsuit bg
Dialect
people literally have their bg dim on max, why do they care about a bg
ColdTooth

MinNin wrote:

people literally have their bg dim on max, why do they care about a bg
lol

some people play with very low dim, or no dim

i sometimes play with no dim, sb on just to practice my control
DragonSlayer96
Monstrata more than likely does 100% dim. Why does he even care about the "quality" of a bg if he won't see it anyway?
Serraionga

ColdTooth wrote:

someone's just gunna get triggered by one simple thing and tries to force a change
You mean you didn't want to place a NC here? Heh,,, There Goes Your Map Kid,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Vetoed. No One Is More Stubborn Than ME.
levesterz

MinNin wrote:

people literally have their bg dim on max, why do they care about a bg
I play with 50 percent dim. And I like to play with storyboard on. I like good sb.
Topic Starter
abraker
you've been playing since 2010 so your opinion is not relevant /s
Zelzatter Zero

DragonSlayer96 wrote:

Monstrata more than likely does 100% dim. Why does he even care about the "quality" of a bg if he won't see it anyway?
Actually the whole situation is not that serious. Monstrata was just joking about the bg quality without being acknowledged that the Cheri drawn this herself. After that he changed his comment into constructive criticism. He even confirmed that the joke was made by looking at bg preview for like 0.5 second.
Ashton

Zelzatter Zero wrote:

DragonSlayer96 wrote:

Monstrata more than likely does 100% dim. Why does he even care about the "quality" of a bg if he won't see it anyway?
Actually the whole situation is not that serious. Monstrata was just joking about the bg quality without being acknowledged that the Cheri drawn this herself. After that he changed his comment into constructive criticism. He even confirmed that the joke was made by looking at bg preview for like 0.5 second.
That wouldn't be a problem but Monstrata created a post in the general discussion basically saying that it deters from the quality of the beatmap enough to deem in unrankable.

Additionally, Monstrata kept babbling on Twitter Donald Trump style about the situation despite saying the discussion "never had to happen".
levesterz

abraker wrote:

you've been playing since 2010 so your opinion is not relevant /s
no u
ColdTooth

Ashton wrote:

Additionally, Monstrata kept babbling on Twitter Donald Trump style about the situation despite saying the discussion "never had to happen".
"the discussions never had to happen, but i choose to continue to bitch"
Topic Starter
abraker
Discovered an oldie

forum/p/2174247 - Mapper gets overflowed with comments regarding hard sight-readability of a difficulty. Mapper dismisses most comments as opinions while many claim they are issues that need to be fixed.
Aiseca

Flanster wrote:

When they mad its not a swimsuit bg
^ this is somewhat true lol
McEndu
Bump
Zelzatter Zero

McEndu wrote:

Bump
you can just bump them when there's a new drama. It's not that the OP is going to be inactive anytime soon.
Topic Starter
abraker
Not too drama intensive, but I think is still a worthy addition

Map is deemed to be too stamina intensive even for top players. Mapper argues difficulty shouldn't be used to judge map quality
beatmapsets/812539/discussion/1704294/general#/446564
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

abraker wrote:

Not too drama intensive, but I think is still a worthy addition

Map is deemed to be too stamina intensive even for top players. Mapper argues difficulty shouldn't be used to judge map quality
beatmapsets/812539/discussion/1704294/general#/446564
It's interesting how while I was reading the thread without the map's name, I was thinking of this map
Dialect
beatmapsets/1151389/discussion/-/generalAll#/1708181

map's bg was seen as "disrespect to the original artist" as it's an edited version of the original bg. mapper argues that it's to represent the music.
q9za

Li Syaoran wrote:

beatmapsets/1151389/discussion/-/generalAll#/1708181

map's bg was seen as "disrespect to the original artist" as it's an edited version of the original bg. mapper argues that it's to represent the music.
That argument is one of the dumbest shit I've ever seen. Just why even bring it up, the mapper trying to make the BG fit with the song.
Aiseca
"Subjective Issues Exists..."
Zelzatter Zero

q9za wrote:

Li Syaoran wrote:

beatmapsets/1151389/discussion/-/generalAll#/1708181

map's bg was seen as "disrespect to the original artist" as it's an edited version of the original bg. mapper argues that it's to represent the music.
That argument is one of the dumbest shit I've ever seen. Just why even bring it up, the mapper trying to make the BG fit with the song.
agree. Like, there's even someone try to crop the portrait image (the original one is still SFW) to import into the game for the sake of song appropriation so why can't this be?

At least it's not unrelated to the song like Sotarks' Gold Dust.
q9za

Zelzatter Zero wrote:

q9za wrote:

Li Syaoran wrote:

beatmapsets/1151389/discussion/-/generalAll#/1708181

map's bg was seen as "disrespect to the original artist" as it's an edited version of the original bg. mapper argues that it's to represent the music.
That argument is one of the dumbest shit I've ever seen. Just why even bring it up, the mapper trying to make the BG fit with the song.
agree. Like, there's even someone try to crop the portrait image (the original one is still SFW) to import into the game for the sake of song appropriation so why can't this be?

At least it's not unrelated to the song like Sotarks' Gold Dust.
well whatever, it's just them wasting time let them enjoy themselves lol.
Aiseca
Mapping and politics ain't different.
Dialect
personally i just wish hishiro kind up upscaled the quality of the bg a tad bit, but then it'd ruin the map itself
Topic Starter
abraker
comment thread ended with a fizzle, but gonna document it for sake of keeping track of bg issues cause they seem to pop up more often these days and I get the feeling that might end up leading to something bigger eventually
q9za

Aiseca wrote:

Mapping and politics ain't different.
Now introducing: Plapping, where you discuss both real life politics and mapping in the same chat!
Dialect

abraker wrote:

comment thread ended with a fizzle, but gonna document it for sake of keeping track of bg issues cause they seem to pop up more often these days and I get the feeling that might end up leading to something bigger eventually
all because of a swimsuit bg
q9za
it is what it is
Hydreigon
bg drama is getting more popular now that it even could have its own separate thread lel.


but on-topic, as an artist, I'm fine with people making little edits like that, as long as they still credit the artist and its not a huge edit that affects the entire drawing.
q9za

Hydreigon wrote:

bg drama is getting more popular now that it even could have its own separate thread lel.


but on-topic, as an artist, I'm fine with people making little edits like that, as long as they still credit the artist and its not a huge edit that affects the entire drawing.
That's true, it's not an insulting or memey edit, it is related to the genre of the song.
Chiru-kun
cute compilation, will bookmark
q9za

renzthegreat wrote:

cute compilation, will bookmark
ok
Dialect
beatmapsets/1114770/discussion/-/generalAll#/1572249

song is too inappropriate for osu!. mapper argues that other maps have inappropriate songs too
Dialect

levesterz wrote:

lol
gigantic otn is not inappropiate then?
not to mention the obvious moans in ver. danshi
levesterz
ye.
edit: ops i deleted my massage to change a bit of wording and you qoute it ops ..
Zelzatter Zero
Imagine having bunches of eroge songs ranked and still veto a map for having inappropriate lyrics.

kinda double standard for me
JustABeginner
I don't know how this song is even ranked...

Source: Click here.

Also, it is made from a first generation of denizen!
Hydreigon
osu needs a better line between whats NSFW but still allowed for rank and stuff that is too NSFW to be ranked


so that way people would know what songs to map and not map
Isshiki Kaname
there is literally map background depicting groping, that is far worse than that Suisei bikini art I sent in tadpole's thread.
searched for such backgrounds to prove my point on my silence being wrongfully given
JustABeginner
Poor Katou... :C.
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