Shiirn wrote:
Railey2 wrote:
stuff
hey do you think my maps are good i'm curious as to how you compare them to comfortable, easy-to-play "fun" maps tanks
To me, technical stuff is fun when I can play it moderately well.
I'm a pretty decent player myself so I can say that I liked playing most of them. Except the final diff of routing, that one was simply too hard to be fun to me. Can't claim that I played all of your maps. Koan Sound is pretty dope, though.
I really dig your choice of music in general. Great taste.
Anyway, I agree with Philisophikal. B1rd would probably argue that complexity means that something must be better, which is a completely arbitrary standard just like popularity or the quality of something being more purple than something else.
Naotoshi wrote:
It's completely possible to map a generic pop song in a way that doesn't abuse sharp angles and comfortable movement and extreme rhythm simplification and low SV and giant 5 second diffspikes.
And that's exactly what I've been talking about. Why do you feel the need to frame sharp angles, diffspikes, rhythm simplification and low SV as something that is "abuse", as something that is "bad"? Sure, they became more widely used for a reason (ppv2), but does that automatically make them bad?
- Diffspikes create tension and make a map more fun to many people, more fun that a map that always stays the same in difficulty.
- Sharp angles make jumps easier to hit, which is satisfying to the player.
- Low SV means that you won't have to flail around trying not to sliderbreak, which many people hate.
- Rhythm simplification means that you can just tap tap without thinking much about exact timing or wondering how the fuck exactly you got that 100 on that weird quadruple over there.
All of the techniques you mentioned make a map more comfortable, exciting or fun to lots of players, and yet you feel the need to frame them as "abuse"?
Again, why is pp mapping a bad thing? Am I simply a shitty person for liking Tarpey - Close Call (Near Miss)?
Lastly, I'm wondering if mapping variety is affected as everyone claims it is. Can someone go ahead and actually prove that we get less variety than we used to? Looking into the "recently ranked" section, there seems to be lots of vastly different stuff floating around, alternating maps, technical maps, simple chill maps, pp maps, crazy hard 7*'s, marathons...
N0thingSpecial wrote:
Vice versa, the players are under the impression that mappers who map for FREE, should comply to player's demand, FOR FREE is the problem here, the incentive is not there, you can make up stuff like satisfaction of social acceptance but that's a superficial reason.
So I would assume mappers take the "game developer" approach, make what they think is good, that of course includes ridiculous time wasting game like sheep similuator (fun maps), but ultimately you want to make something with quality, something well thought out (good maps), even successful rhythm games like deemo and voez does that, some players would completely disregard the thought put into both games, and still enjoy it, but it's probably safer to just assume players would take notice of all the visual and game design choices they made, enjoy it as a rhythm game, not a piano simiulator.
I disagree. The whole ranking process is a system that was set into place for a singular purpose: To deliver great content to players so that THEY can enjoy the game to it's fullest extent. If you eat up the resources of said system by taking the time of the people that work for it, your mapping should be 100% in line with the objective of the system: Creating fun for the player.
Now if you're just mapping around on your own, you can obviously do what you want. But if you try to get maps ranked, you should think about the player first. If you see mapping as your personal song-reflection art project, you're certainly missing the point.
This doesn't mean that the end result can't be good. I'm sure pishi has many fans that like his mapping for what it is. Personally, I find that it gets quite stale. Some of his maps are plain boring to me, the Shelter-one he showed in his video included.
If the wrong ideas infiltrate the process itself, we end up with Shiirn having to re-map his Routing map for 71 years. And that's bad as well.