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awp
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@Lolginer: yeah, something like that

@Loofah: Thanks for all the support on this. Is it convenient to tweak the colour of those textures at all? The pink has a bit too much...blue? to it? It looks a bit lavender or whatever colour I'm thinking of around there.

Here's a proper shot of the eye, btw, as nature intended:



I don't know if that hair texture just happens to be partially transparent or something and may translate really well onto the model.
Loginer
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Loofah wrote:

OK then, here they are
*huge*
*huge*
I like the style of the textures, but that's not going to work very well on the model. It has to be tilable, and the smaller it is, the better. You should also lose the part on the bottom and the white light shining on the middle of the texture.
Basically, just lines plz. :3
Loofah_old
73 posts
Joined September 2008
Loofah_old
OK then, I'll post some new ones in a while then, and by tileable what do you mean? do I have to delete the dark parts?
adamskii_uk
324 posts
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adamskii_uk

Loofah wrote:

OK then, I'll post some new ones in a while then, and by tileable what do you mean? do I have to delete the dark parts?
He means that the texture will need to be seamless. The image will need to be created so that when it is placed next to itself horizontally and vertically, there will be no visible seams.
Loofah_old
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adamskii_uk
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Loginer
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Loofah wrote:

I can do horizontal easy.... but vertical would kind of make it looks a bit plain, I'll wait till loginer shows me how the texture is actually laid on until I post some new ones.
I can't use any transparency on the hair, since it has depth. The only way to get around it is by making the hair flat, but that wouldn't look right due to those damn stripes. This render should also display why fake specularity + textures = bad mix.
Finally, these textures are too big. 1000*1000 is on a dimension way beyond overkill, and since this texture is all about details, I can't just scale it in Photoshop. A tileable 100*100 or so texture should do the trick, though.

Loofah_old
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Loofah_old
100x100....... easy, here they are


Loginer
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They're not vertically tileable, and the details are waaaay to sma- Oh, you resized the original texture. <_<
LuigiHann
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Loginer, why not just cut the chunks you need out of the big textures? It'd only require a little photoshopping the edges to get them to tile properly.
Loofah_old
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Loofah_old

Loginer wrote:

They're not vertically tileable, and the details are waaaay to sma- Oh, you resized the original texture. <_<

Well, I could make the details a bit larger if you want.
Loginer
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LuigiHann wrote:

Loginer, why not just cut the chunks you need out of the big textures? It'd only require a little photoshopping the edges to get them to tile properly.
Actually, you'd pretty much have to redo the edges. Might give it a go tomorrow unless Loofah posts something.

Loofah wrote:

Loginer wrote:

They're not vertically tileable, and the details are waaaay to sma- Oh, you resized the original texture. <_<

Well, I could make the details a bit larger if you want.
A bit won't do the trick, they have to be about as large as on the high-res version.

Loofah_old
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Loofah_old
OK, I made completely certain that these will tile exactly, I also made the detail a fair bit larger than my old atempts-

Loginer
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I had to modify the color of the bottom texture, but other than that, they're great. They're still a bit large, but the face texture is even larger, anyway. :D
peppy
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Give me something to work with already. Now I need to look at implementing the model in DirectX AND opengl. What a pain :(.

Loginer
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Check your PMs for the password.
http://up.ppy.sh/files/pippitest.rar
Loofah_old
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Loofah_old
so are we still going to do a mouth? because I think unless it was animated that it wouldn't really look right.
Loginer
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Yeah, but a closed mouth would look better than an open one in this case. Just make a neat-looking line, and we'll call it a day.

Until she starts to talk. Then I'll go through the trouble of adding a real mouth. :?
RemmyX25
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Loginer wrote:

Until she starts to talk. Then I'll go through the trouble of adding a real mouth. :?
Still working on it.
awp
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Loginer
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awp wrote:

The way it wraps around the hair, it looks a bit like wood grain. Is there a way to layer the hair so it doesn't look as much like playdough? Or make it some kind of fur/hair material?

If I were an expert on this I could probably advise something specific a la modeling, but all I can say is that right now the hair doesn't exactly look like hair.
Not sure what you mean with layers. Something like bump mapping?

And there is a hair-and-fur modifier in 3ds, but it's not made for real-time rendering.
awp
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Loofah_old
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Loofah_old

awp wrote:

Bump-mapping might work. It looks like one solid piece right now (which might look good enough in a cartoon shader) when it should not be perfectly smooth (particularly in the black) - the strands at the top of the head do not reach her shoulders, only the lower roots will. That sorta thing.
Also, that angle shows some pretty useful information: her nose is pointy, and there's an absence of a bridge. It looks as if you can get away with flat eyes, but she could really use a bridge on her nose. Use yourself for reference as much as you need to...unless your nose is broken ;x

this probably can't reqally be done because of ow the model is set out, but I do think that the nose needs a bridge, that or not have qa nose at all.
Loginer
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Loginer
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Loofah_old
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Loofah_old
a nice improvement, approxamaetly how big will she be on screen?
Loginer
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She will pretty much cover the entire screen heightwise.

awp
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awp
3/4 to 4/5 please

Saturos
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Saturos
Hair texture looks like wood grain.
awp
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YoshiKart
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YoshiKart

Saturos wrote:

Hair texture looks like wood grain.
Especially when looked upon from far away. Looking at it up close doesn't have the same effect. So, you may see violently floating wood grain floors.


I'm irritated at the eyes. The "eyelash" sticking out to the sides bothers me.
P-Drogan
157 posts
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P-Drogan

Saturos wrote:

Hair texture looks like wood grain.
I agree. Maybe the textures should be replaced with highlights instead...
or try making the textures a bit more straightened down .
Loofah_old
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Loofah_old

YoshiKart wrote:

I'm irritated at the eyes. The "eyelash" sticking out to the sides bothers me.
well Longiner did say to copy the style of the original, so if you don't like it try one yourself and see if it looks better.
Loginer
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So as for the hair, new textures or pretending she's Pinocchio's sister? D:
Loofah_old
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Loofah_old
You could make it layer down staight >.> I don't think it looks much like wood grain atm though. I'd love to retexture the whole model.
awp
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awp

awp wrote:

it looks a bit like wood grain.
As for the eyes, I posted an image similar to the chibi model - hang on, I'll go dig the links up again

http://up.ppy.sh/files/chibi-2.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/pippisider-2.png
Loginer
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Loofah wrote:

You could make it layer down staight >.>
Wouldn't that make it look exactly like wood grain? :/

But other than that, what else could be done? Gloss, bump mapping, new textures, what would help?
awp
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awp
Gloss is a step in the wrong direction. Make it look rougher, maybe. Might need to rely on the textures, but here's a thought:

for the pink bangs, make them thinner. Right now they're pretty circular like "O" but maybe they should be closer to "=". Might help.

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Loginer
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I have made the bangs thinner (Although you really can't notice it from the front), and improved their mapping coordinates. I've also increased the contrast on the textures. How's this?

awp
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awp
It looks better than it did before imo; how does it look from a more intended resolution?

Loginer
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The face will be seen up close when you're about to fail, I assume, but anyway. Massive difference.

adamskii_uk
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adamskii_uk
Looking good so far. :)
ShaggoN
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ShaggoN
Very nice :) .
Rolled
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Rolled
360 degrees shots pls?
Loginer
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Rolled
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Well.. I guess that works :P I just wanted back/front/sides.
awp
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Belt buckle's a tad small and something about the shape of the upper torso doesn't quite sit right with me, but I can't pinpoint it. She might be a little too thin, as well.
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awp
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Yeah, they actually ARE longer than the gloves in my avatar. How the fuck did I screw that one up
Loginer
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How about halfway up the forearm?

awp wrote:

Belt buckle's a tad small and something about the shape of the upper torso doesn't quite sit right with me, but I can't pinpoint it. She might be a little too thin, as well.
Well, her back is flat. I should probably fix that too. I don't think she's too thin, though; Making the torso thicker than the thigh would just look weird.
awp
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No, like, depth thin. Like the end of Saw V thin. As if she were standing straight and her front and back were compressed together by a trash compactor sort of thin.

Re: gloves - they go about 3/4 of the forearm. One second...

http://up.ppy.sh/files/pippigloveexample.jpg - about that
Loginer
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Here's the latest version (Sorry for the delay, I blame the cold I caught). I don't know if I've fixed the flatness, but it's definitely better than the last one. Ignore the weird-looking shoes in the back view, I already fixed that problem.
Also, does anyone think stages would be a good idea?





Rolled
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Her thigh is about as thick as her calf. Calves could use a bit thinning down. Maybe even the thighs a bit, as well.

Also may I ask whats up with the shoes?

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RemmyX25
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Rolled wrote:

Also may I ask whats up with the shoes?
asking as well.

They look like rocket boosters or something imo.
awp
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Rolled wrote:

Also may I ask whats up with the shoes?
The profile on the boots is too low. It just looks a bit like thick socks with platform-soles; it wouldn't take much to fix.

My biggest issue is with the eyes and the overall shape of the face. Given how flat it is (absence of cheekbones is one major player in this) the face looks almost alien, like those classic huge-black-eyed-bald-with-very-round-head type aliens. Seriously, the eyes are still a bit dark and not vibrant enough. Don't make me hotlink my avatar again >=(
Starrodkirby86
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awp wrote:

Rolled wrote:

Also may I ask whats up with the shoes?
My biggest issue is with the eyes and the overall shape of the face. Given how flat it is (absence of cheekbones is one major player in this) the face looks almost alien, like those classic huge-black-eyed-bald-with-very-round-head type aliens. Seriously, the eyes are still a bit dark and not vibrant enough. Don't make me hotlink my avatar again >=(
I concur with this. I thought this was supposed to be a specific style you were aiming for Loginer, but apparently if someone is complaining about it I might as well too.

Oh, and where's the ears...?

Nevertheless that's a really nice model you have. :)
RemmyX25
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Starrodkirby86 wrote:

Oh, and where's the ears...?
Behind the hair, don't you see them? :P
Loginer
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I've thinned the calves down slightly, and I've improved the boots.
I've also added some cheekbones. I'll improve them if necessary, but do they give the face more depth or not?



awp
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Every little bit brings it closer and closer. That might be pronounced enough; it's a bit hard to tell from just one view, and with the texturing incomplete.
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awp
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LuigiHann wrote:

I think once you give her a mouth, she'll look like a person, and people won't nitpick the face as much.
Oh, don't misunderestimate me~

LuigiHann wrote:

As for the boots, the soles should be more solid; right now it looks like each boot is sitting on two discs. Something like this would look better, I think. http://www.whitesboots.com/assets/img/categories/boots.jpg
Those boots are a pretty good example, actually. At first I was like "well, not quite" but then I looked at it again and went "oh yes".
Loginer
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LuigiHann wrote:

As for the boots, the soles should be more solid; right now it looks like each boot is sitting on two discs.
If you mean the soles being too "round" at the bottom, I think I've solved the problem. Or is it something else?
And here's another face render. Guess I have to "focus" the cheekbones more.



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lukewarmholiday
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face is too triangular, flat and doesn't have much definition whatsoever, adding a mouth wont change those problems and people will still nitpick the face.

I'm about to just draw what I think would fix it since I'm terrible at describing. the hair also doesn't cover enough of the head. but i think you already mentioned that needed to be fixed. One immediate thing I noticed was the chin. In fact I think ill just bring up the original picture.



The chin doesn't start closing until below the eyes.

From what i've seen from more accomplished modelers is that they try to form the body right from a profile view, then they try to make it look correct from a side view and then clean it up.(but this process would require a profile pic and a side view pic)

I really hated making this post because I have next to 0 experience with 3D modeling.
Loginer
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LuigiHann wrote:

You fixed one issue with the boots, but not the main problem I have. Hope this illustrates it a bit better.

Look at the bottom of any pair of shoes or boots. The sole is all one piece, even though it's thickest at the heel.
Ah, now I get it. Should be easy to add.

lukewarmholiday wrote:

face is too triangular, flat and doesn't have much definition whatsoever, adding a mouth wont change those problems and people will still nitpick the face.

I'm about to just draw what I think would fix it since I'm terrible at describing. the hair also doesn't cover enough of the head. but i think you already mentioned that needed to be fixed. One immediate thing I noticed was the chin. In fact I think ill just bring up the original picture.

Img

The chin doesn't start closing until below the eyes.

From what i've seen from more accomplished modelers is that they try to form the body right from a profile view, then they try to make it look correct from a side view and then clean it up.(but this process would require a profile pic and a side view pic)

I really hated making this post because I have next to 0 experience with 3D modeling.
The face only looks like it's flat because of the lighting, and I'm working on the definition. I'll see what I can do with the chin, though. And yes, I know about modeling stuff that way, but no one was up for the job of drawing references back when I started modeling Pippi.
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awp
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I drew Pippi from the shoulders up twice in the last month at face view and side view
Loginer
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I don't think it would be very useful now, though.
awp
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It's never too late~
Echo
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I didn't read all the posts, but if no one has pointed this out before I think her head is too small. Isn't a human head ~1/4 - 1/5 the height?
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NCDyson
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A friend of mine who knows Sarumaru said he's been pretty busy these last few months.

When you get as far as rigging and animating her, you should totally do a video of her dancing...
I wanna see her shake her groove thing :)
Loginer
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I've updated the shape of the head slightly. This is what the head would look like if it was 1/4 of the height (it is currently 1/6, and let's pretend the neck is a little longer than it is). I think it's too large.

While we're at it, this is what the head would look like in a nightmare.

Oh, and I fixed the shoes.
Rolled
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Personally, I think the bigger head looks amazing. Sure it may not be very anatomically correct, but it really pulls it all together imo. It's just when the head was smaller it seemed like something was missing, and a lot of that was filled imo when you made it larger.

Also, boots look much better. Legs look much better. Everything really went a step up.

edit: shoes do look better, but I think the bridge from heel to toe can be brough down a bit further.
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Last edited by Starrodkirby86 , edited 1 time in total.
devkit4384
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great improvements
Last edited by devkit4384 , edited 1 time in total.
Loginer
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I've resized the head properly, new picture below. Should I make the scarf bigger or not?

Starrodkirby86 wrote:

But looking at the drawing over there, it doesn't seem the buttons should be that large.
Fixed.

Starrodkirby86 wrote:

EDIT: Curiosity question. I noticed in the Saramaru drawing and in the Catch the Beat picture Pippi has a cleavage at where the star is on her chest. Though there's other images of her (Most notably the famous chibi of her I think and your model) with the cleavage not apparent and no skin showing at the star area...I never been long enough to see the creation of her so I'm a bit confused with this matter. Regardless, nice model...nice model...
The star was originally supposed to have a hole in the middle, but that was removed from the design at some point. The hole on the CtB Pippi is not supposed to be there.

devkit4384 wrote:

with the release of my updated oto2 theme i give you:
*combo.png*
That reminds me: You'll be able to modify Pippi's textures.

lukewarmholiday
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Nice job
LuigiHann
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I think the head is a leeeetle too big, can you make it halfway between what it is now and what it was before?

Nah nevermind it's cool
awp
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I thought the big-headed one was a joke, and it's nice to see it toned down a bit, but I feel you could do with another 5% or 10% smaller. Star on her chest is a tad too low. The top point of the star should almost reach the scarf. Also there are little osu buttons on her gloves - they should probably be modeled rather than textured on. And, of course, I'd still like to see the belt as a modeled piece - right now it just looks like an osu! button pinned onto a skirt.
awp
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Just out of curiosity, how would the eyes look when attempting to emulate the more cartoony look of the chibi?

http://up.ppy.sh/files/pippieyel.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/pippieyer.png
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LuigiHann
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Old eyes were better
awp
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She looks possessed by a devil like that. If the cartoon shader can't save it, nothing can. Well, thanks.

I still think the current eyes need a bit of livening up though.
Eschubertsson
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i argee it is kinda wierd eyes
Loofah_old
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The head could do to be a bit smaller.Maybe only a teensy bit bigger than the old head, plus, when it's in a t-pose shouldn't it face forward instead of up a little?

that or you could increase the size of here limbs.

Loginer
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Loofah wrote:

The head could do to be a bit smaller.Maybe only a teensy bit bigger than the old head, plus, when it's in a t-pose shouldn't it face forward instead of up a little?

that or you could increase the size of here limbs.
The majority of the community seem to like the head like this, so no. And the head might as well face to the right, it won't matter in the end when I apply a biped. Fun fact: The legs are pointing forward by about 10 degrees.
Rolled
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I was checking out some 3ds max videos on youtube (you use that, right?) and I came accross this mario model and the eyes look rather amazing in it. Mario's eyes are pretty similar to pippi's eyes (if you use the chibi ones) so is it at all possible to use the same technique that the mario model has when referring to the eyes? Make the head model cave in a bit where the eye sockets are, that is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvAM-ijXr9g
Loginer
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It's not that simple. The face is too low-poly to add details like those without messing up the shading really badly, and adding more lines is a pain in the ass due to how the head is connected to the body. MeshSmooth and it's fetish for ruining shapes doesn't make anything easier, either. Just figuring out a way to add a nose without screwing up the shading too much took quite a while. Also, the eyes are separate objects in that video.
I hate MeshSmooth.
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LuigiHann
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I don't think she needs a stage.
Loginer
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I'm too tired to improve the physique any further right now, so here's what I've done so far. I know the belt is screwed up, that's easily fixable. I know the star is screwed up, that's easily fixable. I know the hands are horrible, and I guess I'll have to remake them. D:

Rolled
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Great pippi pose but man, it really makes me notice how much that head just doesn't feel like Pippi :/

This post is not constructive in the least bit. I apologize :(
RemmyX25
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RemmyX25

Rolled wrote:

Great pippi pose but man, it really makes me notice how much that head just doesn't feel like Pippi :/

This post is not constructive in the least bit. I apologize :(
No, I actually agree with you about the head. It feels too.... round? I don't know. But yea, she really doesnt have a Pippi feeling to her...
Loginer
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*looks at hand* ...I seriously need to study more anatomy.
Anyway, I could try to remake the head. The new head would have real eyes, a real mouth, less flatness, a better shape, and much better hair. Would that do the trick?
Rolled
osu! Alumni
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Rolled
I will tell you as soon as I see it.

Why is no artisticly talented people helping you with models around here. front/back/side of pippi head pls.
awp
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awp
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Loginer
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This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Rolled
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Rolled
Also, regarding the hands:

Palm smaller, especially since pippi is young (forget exact age.) It could probably be about half of that current size. When looking at the hand as a whole, half of the makeup should be the palm and half fingers. If the palm size is halved, fingers could probably stay the same length. However the thumb should really be sized down and made a bit thinner around the bottom half.

Here you go:



In that picture take note of how the thumb sprouts away from te palm, and how the little bit of area connecting the thumb to the wrist bellows out a bit. Pippi's hand almost caves in.
Loginer
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Rolled wrote:

stuff
I've already fixed the hand, but thanks.
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