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Loginer
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Loginer
Round enough? <_<
Also, I'm currently just perfecting the shading and coloring (I see the "skinhair", will be fixed). I'm more or less satisfied with how the model looks at the moment, and will move on to textures, rigging and optimizing if no one else complains about anything (I can and probably will improve the hair in the future, so don't mention that ATM), which means the model will be ready for osu! within 2 weeks unless something unexpected happens. But is osu! ready fo- *shot*
*fears the animation part ;_;*

Loginer
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Now that I have your attention, should I apply a cloth modifier to the skirt to make it look more realistic (It'll still be static), or should I leave it alone?
Saturos
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I think you may have done something wrong. It appears she had a little trouble dancing.

Loginer wrote:

Now that I have your attention, should I apply a cloth modifier to the skirt to make it look more realistic?
Yes if she isn't cell-shaded; maybe if cell-shaded.
Loginer
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YoshiKart
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YoshiKart
For the top pic, what's the white space to the top right of the nose? Empty space?
Loginer
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YoshiKart wrote:

For the top pic, what's the white space to the top right of the nose? Empty space?
It's a white hole. It expands when you miss notes, and kills you dead if you fail the song. :D
Or a "bug" I already fixed. D:

Edit: A 10 cm long Pippi model without the skirt would apparently have a volume of circa 17 cubic cm. That means an IRL model would cost about $30 on Shapeways. Is this win?

Edit2: Last time I tried using Mesh Smooth on top of Unwrap UVW (Texture aligner), it screwed up the textures. Looks like I did something wrong, so forget about all that can't-fix-this-later crap. :D

Edit3: Very little progress done lately (16 October ATM), so to make up for it, here's a screenshot of Pippi's secret, not-so-unlockable steel form. >:3

Loginer
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I've taken a bunch of placeholder textures and applied them to the model. Here's the result (Warning: Face will give you nightmares): http://up.ppy.sh/files/pippicreepy.png
Now, I'll need two things: Suggestions, and help.

Suggestions: I was thinking about making the little buttons on the shoes into actual buttons rather than a texture, since they look way too flat like this. The circle on the belt will also be a mesh. I'm also going to improve the zipper texture. Also, don't worry about the face being kind of fucked up, I'll fix that. Any suggestions beyond this?

Help: Good 2D artists. The face. Help me. Now. D:
Basically, I need an eye and a mouth. They have to be colored and in the format PNG. Transparent background would be preferable, but if that's not possible, a background with the RGB value #FCD8B4 (252 216 180) would work, too.

Download: Bernstein & Ruegger - Freakazoid! (Nicogeta) [Footix's Normal].osu
Loofah_old
73 posts
Joined September 2008
Loofah_old
I could probably do the face for you, give me a while and I'll most the results...

Heres a preview of the texture I made, this is obviously resized emensly, so I'll give you high res ones with ransparent backgrounds if you like em
Loginer
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Loofah wrote:

I could probably do the face for you, give me a while and I'll most the results...

Heres a preview of the texture I made, this is obviously resized emensly, so I'll give you high res ones with ransparent backgrounds if you like em
They look a bit too "serious business", make them look more like in Sarumaru's picture/the chibi version. The eyelashes also seem a bit overdone.
awp
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Loofah_old
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Loofah_old
OK, I finished the new eyes for you, if you like these ones I can give a hi res transparent versions.

Loginer
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Much better, but they're a bit too round. Try moving the upper part a bit to make them longer, anime-styled eyes are more rectangular.
Also, think you could add some eyebrows while you're at it?
Loofah_old
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adamskii_uk
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adamskii_uk

Loofah wrote:

OK, update on the eyes-


I'll send a hi res version when you want
Going by what Loginer said in his previous post, I think he is after eyes that look similar to the character in awp's avatar.

Loginer
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adamskii_uk wrote:

Loofah wrote:

OK, update on the eyes-


I'll send a hi res version when you want
Going by what Loginer said in his previous post, I think he is after eyes that look similar to the character in awp's avatar.

Yeah, although they're getting there. :D
Loofah_old
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Loofah_old
soo..... you want lines on the inner side?
adamskii_uk
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Loofah_old
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Loofah_old
Ok then, taht's the lines done.

any other little things that you want tweaked?

How about ideas on how to make the mouth?
Loginer
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adamskii_uk wrote:

Loofah wrote:

soo..... you want lines on the inner side?
Just for the record, I'm NOT speaking on behalf of Loginer, this is just my own personal view on what he wants, going by the description he gave in his post, and by the fact that awp's avatar is pointing to the right eye (maybe a hint?).

IMO, I think Loginer wants the eyes to be more a rectangular shape overall, your eyes still look a bit too rounded compared to the eyes in awp's avatar. If you just copy the shape of the eyes in awp's avatar, but create the eyes in your own style, then I think he will like it. :)
Yeah, that's what I'm after. Attached a pic; The left shape is what the eye is like ATM. The shape's supposed to be a mix between both of them.

adamskii_uk
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Last edited by adamskii_uk , edited 2 times in total.
Loofah_old
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Loofah_old

adamskii_uk wrote:

Loofah wrote:

Ok then, taht's the lines done.

any other little things that you want tweaked?

How about ideas on how to make the mouth?
LOL... that's more round than the previous version. :lol:

:(
adamskii_uk
324 posts
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adamskii_uk

Loofah wrote:

:(
No need to cry. You're soooo close, you just need to fix the shape of the eyes. :)

Look at the eye shape that's in the character below, and then look at the shape of the eyes that you have created. Your eyes look far too rounded in comparison. Just copy the EXACT shape of the eyes that's in the image below, but do all the eye shading, etc, in your style.

Loofah_old
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Loofah_old
Alright then, THat means I need to completely remodle the eye, so expect an update in about 20 minutes.

Edit: OK, so it took a little longer than expected..... and looks on the most part the same...... but, I did make it a lot more squared off.



but personally I think the old one looked better :P
Loginer
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Loofah wrote:

Much better. Do you have a higher-res version?

awp
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Saturos
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Not to mention the eyes are not snapped to the grid correctly, and the overall spacing is a little tight. I can't rank this.

(Off-center a tad and could be placed a bit farther apart)

I suppose this is something for Loginer to deal with anyway, though. Posting mainly to show that I'm still watching this. ;x
Loginer
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Anyway, give me high-res versions of both attempts, and we'll vote for the version as soon as I provide some new renders. :D
Loofah_old
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Loginer
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Loofah_old
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Loofah_old

Loginer wrote:

Wow, that's huge. <_<
Anyway, I'll modify them a bit first.

Well when I said hi res I wasn't kidding :D
Loginer
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OK, here they are. The eyebrows on the first set and the small part at the top of the second one is messed up, but ignore that.
The new eyes look a bit weird and tired, so I'll have to vote for the old ones. :/



awp
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I've been discussing it a bit with peppy, and like I mentioned earlier, the eyes look too weathered/aged/mature. Remember, she's only 15. Her eyes should look a bit more curious/excited...there isn't quite enough energy.

@Loginer: could you tweak the tuft of hair at the front to make it a bit wider? Just a bit~
Echo
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I'm not too sure but I think the eyes could be a bit thinner, and also closer to the middle of her face.
Loofah_old
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Loofah_old
what's with the dip in the middel of the texture? and I think that like echo said, they should be a bit closer to the middle of her face. Maybe if I add some blush she'll look younger
Loginer
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awp wrote:

@Loginer: could you tweak the tuft of hair at the front to make it a bit wider? Just a bit~
Sure, I'll do that later.

Echo wrote:

I'm not too sure but I think the eyes could be a bit thinner, and also closer to the middle of her face.
That's also easy to do, but I'll just wait for Loofah to post some new eyes first. :/

Loofah wrote:

what's with the dip in the middel of the texture?
The actual model I have in Max is very, very low-poly. To make it a bit more round, I apply a modifier called Mesh Smooth, which pretty much multiplies the number of faces by four with each iteration. This can screw up texture coordinates. I could get around this by making the Mesh Smooth permanent, but the resulting model is much harder to edit, and some people are still not satisfied. It would also be much harder to rig the model, so I should probably try to find a way around it. <_<
Loofah_old
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Loofah_old
Also, is there any way way to change the hair model into a flat one that can use a texture instead of it looking fleshy?
Loginer
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Loofah wrote:

Also, is there any way way to change the hair model into a flat one that can use a texture instead of it looking fleshy?
That would look horrible. And it can use a texture, but do you really think that's necessary?
Loofah_old
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Loofah_old
Could you make a texture wrap around the whole surface of the hair cylinder?
Loginer
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Loofah wrote:

Could you make a texture wrap around the whole surface of the hair cylinder?
Yes.
awp
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I'd agree; the hair needs texture to prevent it from looking like playdough on her head.
adamskii_uk
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adamskii_uk
I think the hair will look fine without a texture, as long as it's going to be cell shaded in Osu like in the pic below. But, if the mascot isn't going to be cell shaded, then I think the hair will need a texture added to it.

Loofah_old
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Loofah_old
Would you like me to post the hi res hair textures I made? (They're 1000X1000) =3
Loginer
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Loofah wrote:

Would you like me to post the hi res hair textures I made? (They're 1000X1000) =3
Go ahead. By the way, do you guys mean something like this when you're talking about hair textures?

Loofah_old
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Loofah_old
OK then, here they are

awp
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@Lolginer: yeah, something like that

@Loofah: Thanks for all the support on this. Is it convenient to tweak the colour of those textures at all? The pink has a bit too much...blue? to it? It looks a bit lavender or whatever colour I'm thinking of around there.

Here's a proper shot of the eye, btw, as nature intended:



I don't know if that hair texture just happens to be partially transparent or something and may translate really well onto the model.
Loginer
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Loofah wrote:

OK then, here they are
*huge*
*huge*
I like the style of the textures, but that's not going to work very well on the model. It has to be tilable, and the smaller it is, the better. You should also lose the part on the bottom and the white light shining on the middle of the texture.
Basically, just lines plz. :3
Loofah_old
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Loofah_old
OK then, I'll post some new ones in a while then, and by tileable what do you mean? do I have to delete the dark parts?
adamskii_uk
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adamskii_uk

Loofah wrote:

OK then, I'll post some new ones in a while then, and by tileable what do you mean? do I have to delete the dark parts?
He means that the texture will need to be seamless. The image will need to be created so that when it is placed next to itself horizontally and vertically, there will be no visible seams.
Loofah_old
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Loginer
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Loofah wrote:

I can do horizontal easy.... but vertical would kind of make it looks a bit plain, I'll wait till loginer shows me how the texture is actually laid on until I post some new ones.
I can't use any transparency on the hair, since it has depth. The only way to get around it is by making the hair flat, but that wouldn't look right due to those damn stripes. This render should also display why fake specularity + textures = bad mix.
Finally, these textures are too big. 1000*1000 is on a dimension way beyond overkill, and since this texture is all about details, I can't just scale it in Photoshop. A tileable 100*100 or so texture should do the trick, though.

Loofah_old
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Loofah_old
100x100....... easy, here they are


Loginer
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They're not vertically tileable, and the details are waaaay to sma- Oh, you resized the original texture. <_<
LuigiHann
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Loginer, why not just cut the chunks you need out of the big textures? It'd only require a little photoshopping the edges to get them to tile properly.
Loofah_old
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Loofah_old

Loginer wrote:

They're not vertically tileable, and the details are waaaay to sma- Oh, you resized the original texture. <_<

Well, I could make the details a bit larger if you want.
Loginer
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LuigiHann wrote:

Loginer, why not just cut the chunks you need out of the big textures? It'd only require a little photoshopping the edges to get them to tile properly.
Actually, you'd pretty much have to redo the edges. Might give it a go tomorrow unless Loofah posts something.

Loofah wrote:

Loginer wrote:

They're not vertically tileable, and the details are waaaay to sma- Oh, you resized the original texture. <_<

Well, I could make the details a bit larger if you want.
A bit won't do the trick, they have to be about as large as on the high-res version.

Loofah_old
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Loofah_old
OK, I made completely certain that these will tile exactly, I also made the detail a fair bit larger than my old atempts-

Loginer
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I had to modify the color of the bottom texture, but other than that, they're great. They're still a bit large, but the face texture is even larger, anyway. :D
peppy
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Give me something to work with already. Now I need to look at implementing the model in DirectX AND opengl. What a pain :(.

Loginer
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Check your PMs for the password.
http://up.ppy.sh/files/pippitest.rar
Loofah_old
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Loofah_old
so are we still going to do a mouth? because I think unless it was animated that it wouldn't really look right.
Loginer
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Yeah, but a closed mouth would look better than an open one in this case. Just make a neat-looking line, and we'll call it a day.

Until she starts to talk. Then I'll go through the trouble of adding a real mouth. :?
RemmyX25
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Loginer wrote:

Until she starts to talk. Then I'll go through the trouble of adding a real mouth. :?
Still working on it.
awp
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Loginer
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awp wrote:

The way it wraps around the hair, it looks a bit like wood grain. Is there a way to layer the hair so it doesn't look as much like playdough? Or make it some kind of fur/hair material?

If I were an expert on this I could probably advise something specific a la modeling, but all I can say is that right now the hair doesn't exactly look like hair.
Not sure what you mean with layers. Something like bump mapping?

And there is a hair-and-fur modifier in 3ds, but it's not made for real-time rendering.
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Loofah_old
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awp wrote:

Bump-mapping might work. It looks like one solid piece right now (which might look good enough in a cartoon shader) when it should not be perfectly smooth (particularly in the black) - the strands at the top of the head do not reach her shoulders, only the lower roots will. That sorta thing.
Also, that angle shows some pretty useful information: her nose is pointy, and there's an absence of a bridge. It looks as if you can get away with flat eyes, but she could really use a bridge on her nose. Use yourself for reference as much as you need to...unless your nose is broken ;x

this probably can't reqally be done because of ow the model is set out, but I do think that the nose needs a bridge, that or not have qa nose at all.
Loginer
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Loofah_old
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a nice improvement, approxamaetly how big will she be on screen?
Loginer
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She will pretty much cover the entire screen heightwise.

awp
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3/4 to 4/5 please

Saturos
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Hair texture looks like wood grain.
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YoshiKart
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Saturos wrote:

Hair texture looks like wood grain.
Especially when looked upon from far away. Looking at it up close doesn't have the same effect. So, you may see violently floating wood grain floors.


I'm irritated at the eyes. The "eyelash" sticking out to the sides bothers me.
P-Drogan
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P-Drogan

Saturos wrote:

Hair texture looks like wood grain.
I agree. Maybe the textures should be replaced with highlights instead...
or try making the textures a bit more straightened down .
Loofah_old
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YoshiKart wrote:

I'm irritated at the eyes. The "eyelash" sticking out to the sides bothers me.
well Longiner did say to copy the style of the original, so if you don't like it try one yourself and see if it looks better.
Loginer
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So as for the hair, new textures or pretending she's Pinocchio's sister? D:
Loofah_old
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You could make it layer down staight >.> I don't think it looks much like wood grain atm though. I'd love to retexture the whole model.
awp
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awp wrote:

it looks a bit like wood grain.
As for the eyes, I posted an image similar to the chibi model - hang on, I'll go dig the links up again

http://up.ppy.sh/files/chibi-2.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/pippisider-2.png
Loginer
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Loofah wrote:

You could make it layer down staight >.>
Wouldn't that make it look exactly like wood grain? :/

But other than that, what else could be done? Gloss, bump mapping, new textures, what would help?
awp
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Gloss is a step in the wrong direction. Make it look rougher, maybe. Might need to rely on the textures, but here's a thought:

for the pink bangs, make them thinner. Right now they're pretty circular like "O" but maybe they should be closer to "=". Might help.

Download: ZUN - Solar Sect of Mystic Wisdom ~ Nuclear Fusion (OnosakiHito) [Collab Hard].osu
Loginer
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I have made the bangs thinner (Although you really can't notice it from the front), and improved their mapping coordinates. I've also increased the contrast on the textures. How's this?

awp
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It looks better than it did before imo; how does it look from a more intended resolution?

Loginer
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The face will be seen up close when you're about to fail, I assume, but anyway. Massive difference.

adamskii_uk
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adamskii_uk
Looking good so far. :)
ShaggoN
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Very nice :) .
Rolled
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360 degrees shots pls?
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Rolled
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Well.. I guess that works :P I just wanted back/front/sides.
awp
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Belt buckle's a tad small and something about the shape of the upper torso doesn't quite sit right with me, but I can't pinpoint it. She might be a little too thin, as well.
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awp
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Yeah, they actually ARE longer than the gloves in my avatar. How the fuck did I screw that one up
Loginer
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How about halfway up the forearm?

awp wrote:

Belt buckle's a tad small and something about the shape of the upper torso doesn't quite sit right with me, but I can't pinpoint it. She might be a little too thin, as well.
Well, her back is flat. I should probably fix that too. I don't think she's too thin, though; Making the torso thicker than the thigh would just look weird.
awp
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No, like, depth thin. Like the end of Saw V thin. As if she were standing straight and her front and back were compressed together by a trash compactor sort of thin.

Re: gloves - they go about 3/4 of the forearm. One second...

http://up.ppy.sh/files/pippigloveexample.jpg - about that
Loginer
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Here's the latest version (Sorry for the delay, I blame the cold I caught). I don't know if I've fixed the flatness, but it's definitely better than the last one. Ignore the weird-looking shoes in the back view, I already fixed that problem.
Also, does anyone think stages would be a good idea?





Rolled
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Her thigh is about as thick as her calf. Calves could use a bit thinning down. Maybe even the thighs a bit, as well.

Also may I ask whats up with the shoes?

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RemmyX25
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Rolled wrote:

Also may I ask whats up with the shoes?
asking as well.

They look like rocket boosters or something imo.
awp
osu! Alumni
11,869 posts
Here since the beginning
awp

Rolled wrote:

Also may I ask whats up with the shoes?
The profile on the boots is too low. It just looks a bit like thick socks with platform-soles; it wouldn't take much to fix.

My biggest issue is with the eyes and the overall shape of the face. Given how flat it is (absence of cheekbones is one major player in this) the face looks almost alien, like those classic huge-black-eyed-bald-with-very-round-head type aliens. Seriously, the eyes are still a bit dark and not vibrant enough. Don't make me hotlink my avatar again >=(
Starrodkirby86
osu! Alumni
3,739 posts
Here since the beginning
Starrodkirby86

awp wrote:

Rolled wrote:

Also may I ask whats up with the shoes?
My biggest issue is with the eyes and the overall shape of the face. Given how flat it is (absence of cheekbones is one major player in this) the face looks almost alien, like those classic huge-black-eyed-bald-with-very-round-head type aliens. Seriously, the eyes are still a bit dark and not vibrant enough. Don't make me hotlink my avatar again >=(
I concur with this. I thought this was supposed to be a specific style you were aiming for Loginer, but apparently if someone is complaining about it I might as well too.

Oh, and where's the ears...?

Nevertheless that's a really nice model you have. :)
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