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Loofah_old
73 posts
Joined September 2008
Loofah_old
Alright then, THat means I need to completely remodle the eye, so expect an update in about 20 minutes.

Edit: OK, so it took a little longer than expected..... and looks on the most part the same...... but, I did make it a lot more squared off.



but personally I think the old one looked better :P
Loginer
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Loofah wrote:

Much better. Do you have a higher-res version?

awp
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Saturos
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Not to mention the eyes are not snapped to the grid correctly, and the overall spacing is a little tight. I can't rank this.

(Off-center a tad and could be placed a bit farther apart)

I suppose this is something for Loginer to deal with anyway, though. Posting mainly to show that I'm still watching this. ;x
Loginer
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Anyway, give me high-res versions of both attempts, and we'll vote for the version as soon as I provide some new renders. :D
Loofah_old
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Loginer
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Loofah_old
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Loofah_old

Loginer wrote:

Wow, that's huge. <_<
Anyway, I'll modify them a bit first.

Well when I said hi res I wasn't kidding :D
Loginer
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OK, here they are. The eyebrows on the first set and the small part at the top of the second one is messed up, but ignore that.
The new eyes look a bit weird and tired, so I'll have to vote for the old ones. :/



awp
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I've been discussing it a bit with peppy, and like I mentioned earlier, the eyes look too weathered/aged/mature. Remember, she's only 15. Her eyes should look a bit more curious/excited...there isn't quite enough energy.

@Loginer: could you tweak the tuft of hair at the front to make it a bit wider? Just a bit~
Echo
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I'm not too sure but I think the eyes could be a bit thinner, and also closer to the middle of her face.
Loofah_old
73 posts
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Loofah_old
what's with the dip in the middel of the texture? and I think that like echo said, they should be a bit closer to the middle of her face. Maybe if I add some blush she'll look younger
Loginer
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awp wrote:

@Loginer: could you tweak the tuft of hair at the front to make it a bit wider? Just a bit~
Sure, I'll do that later.

Echo wrote:

I'm not too sure but I think the eyes could be a bit thinner, and also closer to the middle of her face.
That's also easy to do, but I'll just wait for Loofah to post some new eyes first. :/

Loofah wrote:

what's with the dip in the middel of the texture?
The actual model I have in Max is very, very low-poly. To make it a bit more round, I apply a modifier called Mesh Smooth, which pretty much multiplies the number of faces by four with each iteration. This can screw up texture coordinates. I could get around this by making the Mesh Smooth permanent, but the resulting model is much harder to edit, and some people are still not satisfied. It would also be much harder to rig the model, so I should probably try to find a way around it. <_<
Loofah_old
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Loofah_old
Also, is there any way way to change the hair model into a flat one that can use a texture instead of it looking fleshy?
Loginer
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Loofah wrote:

Also, is there any way way to change the hair model into a flat one that can use a texture instead of it looking fleshy?
That would look horrible. And it can use a texture, but do you really think that's necessary?
Loofah_old
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Loofah_old
Could you make a texture wrap around the whole surface of the hair cylinder?
Loginer
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Loofah wrote:

Could you make a texture wrap around the whole surface of the hair cylinder?
Yes.
awp
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I'd agree; the hair needs texture to prevent it from looking like playdough on her head.
adamskii_uk
324 posts
Joined April 2008
adamskii_uk
I think the hair will look fine without a texture, as long as it's going to be cell shaded in Osu like in the pic below. But, if the mascot isn't going to be cell shaded, then I think the hair will need a texture added to it.

Loofah_old
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Loofah_old
Would you like me to post the hi res hair textures I made? (They're 1000X1000) =3
Loginer
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Loofah wrote:

Would you like me to post the hi res hair textures I made? (They're 1000X1000) =3
Go ahead. By the way, do you guys mean something like this when you're talking about hair textures?

Loofah_old
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Loofah_old
OK then, here they are

awp
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@Lolginer: yeah, something like that

@Loofah: Thanks for all the support on this. Is it convenient to tweak the colour of those textures at all? The pink has a bit too much...blue? to it? It looks a bit lavender or whatever colour I'm thinking of around there.

Here's a proper shot of the eye, btw, as nature intended:



I don't know if that hair texture just happens to be partially transparent or something and may translate really well onto the model.
Loginer
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Loofah wrote:

OK then, here they are
*huge*
*huge*
I like the style of the textures, but that's not going to work very well on the model. It has to be tilable, and the smaller it is, the better. You should also lose the part on the bottom and the white light shining on the middle of the texture.
Basically, just lines plz. :3
Loofah_old
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Loofah_old
OK then, I'll post some new ones in a while then, and by tileable what do you mean? do I have to delete the dark parts?
adamskii_uk
324 posts
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adamskii_uk

Loofah wrote:

OK then, I'll post some new ones in a while then, and by tileable what do you mean? do I have to delete the dark parts?
He means that the texture will need to be seamless. The image will need to be created so that when it is placed next to itself horizontally and vertically, there will be no visible seams.
Loofah_old
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adamskii_uk
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Loginer
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Loofah wrote:

I can do horizontal easy.... but vertical would kind of make it looks a bit plain, I'll wait till loginer shows me how the texture is actually laid on until I post some new ones.
I can't use any transparency on the hair, since it has depth. The only way to get around it is by making the hair flat, but that wouldn't look right due to those damn stripes. This render should also display why fake specularity + textures = bad mix.
Finally, these textures are too big. 1000*1000 is on a dimension way beyond overkill, and since this texture is all about details, I can't just scale it in Photoshop. A tileable 100*100 or so texture should do the trick, though.

Loofah_old
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Loofah_old
100x100....... easy, here they are


Loginer
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They're not vertically tileable, and the details are waaaay to sma- Oh, you resized the original texture. <_<
LuigiHann
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Loginer, why not just cut the chunks you need out of the big textures? It'd only require a little photoshopping the edges to get them to tile properly.
Loofah_old
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Loofah_old

Loginer wrote:

They're not vertically tileable, and the details are waaaay to sma- Oh, you resized the original texture. <_<

Well, I could make the details a bit larger if you want.
Loginer
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LuigiHann wrote:

Loginer, why not just cut the chunks you need out of the big textures? It'd only require a little photoshopping the edges to get them to tile properly.
Actually, you'd pretty much have to redo the edges. Might give it a go tomorrow unless Loofah posts something.

Loofah wrote:

Loginer wrote:

They're not vertically tileable, and the details are waaaay to sma- Oh, you resized the original texture. <_<

Well, I could make the details a bit larger if you want.
A bit won't do the trick, they have to be about as large as on the high-res version.

Loofah_old
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Loofah_old
OK, I made completely certain that these will tile exactly, I also made the detail a fair bit larger than my old atempts-

Loginer
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I had to modify the color of the bottom texture, but other than that, they're great. They're still a bit large, but the face texture is even larger, anyway. :D
peppy
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Give me something to work with already. Now I need to look at implementing the model in DirectX AND opengl. What a pain :(.

Loginer
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Check your PMs for the password.
http://up.ppy.sh/files/pippitest.rar
Loofah_old
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Loofah_old
so are we still going to do a mouth? because I think unless it was animated that it wouldn't really look right.
Loginer
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Yeah, but a closed mouth would look better than an open one in this case. Just make a neat-looking line, and we'll call it a day.

Until she starts to talk. Then I'll go through the trouble of adding a real mouth. :?
RemmyX25
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Loginer wrote:

Until she starts to talk. Then I'll go through the trouble of adding a real mouth. :?
Still working on it.
awp
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Loginer
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awp wrote:

The way it wraps around the hair, it looks a bit like wood grain. Is there a way to layer the hair so it doesn't look as much like playdough? Or make it some kind of fur/hair material?

If I were an expert on this I could probably advise something specific a la modeling, but all I can say is that right now the hair doesn't exactly look like hair.
Not sure what you mean with layers. Something like bump mapping?

And there is a hair-and-fur modifier in 3ds, but it's not made for real-time rendering.
awp
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Loofah_old
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awp wrote:

Bump-mapping might work. It looks like one solid piece right now (which might look good enough in a cartoon shader) when it should not be perfectly smooth (particularly in the black) - the strands at the top of the head do not reach her shoulders, only the lower roots will. That sorta thing.
Also, that angle shows some pretty useful information: her nose is pointy, and there's an absence of a bridge. It looks as if you can get away with flat eyes, but she could really use a bridge on her nose. Use yourself for reference as much as you need to...unless your nose is broken ;x

this probably can't reqally be done because of ow the model is set out, but I do think that the nose needs a bridge, that or not have qa nose at all.
Loginer
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Loofah_old
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a nice improvement, approxamaetly how big will she be on screen?
Loginer
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She will pretty much cover the entire screen heightwise.

awp
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3/4 to 4/5 please

Saturos
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Hair texture looks like wood grain.
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YoshiKart
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Saturos wrote:

Hair texture looks like wood grain.
Especially when looked upon from far away. Looking at it up close doesn't have the same effect. So, you may see violently floating wood grain floors.


I'm irritated at the eyes. The "eyelash" sticking out to the sides bothers me.
P-Drogan
157 posts
Joined February 2008
P-Drogan

Saturos wrote:

Hair texture looks like wood grain.
I agree. Maybe the textures should be replaced with highlights instead...
or try making the textures a bit more straightened down .
Loofah_old
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Loofah_old

YoshiKart wrote:

I'm irritated at the eyes. The "eyelash" sticking out to the sides bothers me.
well Longiner did say to copy the style of the original, so if you don't like it try one yourself and see if it looks better.
Loginer
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So as for the hair, new textures or pretending she's Pinocchio's sister? D:
Loofah_old
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Loofah_old
You could make it layer down staight >.> I don't think it looks much like wood grain atm though. I'd love to retexture the whole model.
awp
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awp wrote:

it looks a bit like wood grain.
As for the eyes, I posted an image similar to the chibi model - hang on, I'll go dig the links up again

http://up.ppy.sh/files/chibi-2.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/pippisider-2.png
Loginer
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Loofah wrote:

You could make it layer down staight >.>
Wouldn't that make it look exactly like wood grain? :/

But other than that, what else could be done? Gloss, bump mapping, new textures, what would help?
awp
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Gloss is a step in the wrong direction. Make it look rougher, maybe. Might need to rely on the textures, but here's a thought:

for the pink bangs, make them thinner. Right now they're pretty circular like "O" but maybe they should be closer to "=". Might help.

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Loginer
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I have made the bangs thinner (Although you really can't notice it from the front), and improved their mapping coordinates. I've also increased the contrast on the textures. How's this?

awp
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It looks better than it did before imo; how does it look from a more intended resolution?

Loginer
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The face will be seen up close when you're about to fail, I assume, but anyway. Massive difference.

adamskii_uk
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Looking good so far. :)
ShaggoN
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Very nice :) .
Rolled
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360 degrees shots pls?
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Rolled
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Well.. I guess that works :P I just wanted back/front/sides.
awp
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Belt buckle's a tad small and something about the shape of the upper torso doesn't quite sit right with me, but I can't pinpoint it. She might be a little too thin, as well.
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awp
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Yeah, they actually ARE longer than the gloves in my avatar. How the fuck did I screw that one up
Loginer
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How about halfway up the forearm?

awp wrote:

Belt buckle's a tad small and something about the shape of the upper torso doesn't quite sit right with me, but I can't pinpoint it. She might be a little too thin, as well.
Well, her back is flat. I should probably fix that too. I don't think she's too thin, though; Making the torso thicker than the thigh would just look weird.
awp
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No, like, depth thin. Like the end of Saw V thin. As if she were standing straight and her front and back were compressed together by a trash compactor sort of thin.

Re: gloves - they go about 3/4 of the forearm. One second...

http://up.ppy.sh/files/pippigloveexample.jpg - about that
Loginer
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Here's the latest version (Sorry for the delay, I blame the cold I caught). I don't know if I've fixed the flatness, but it's definitely better than the last one. Ignore the weird-looking shoes in the back view, I already fixed that problem.
Also, does anyone think stages would be a good idea?





Rolled
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Her thigh is about as thick as her calf. Calves could use a bit thinning down. Maybe even the thighs a bit, as well.

Also may I ask whats up with the shoes?

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RemmyX25
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Rolled wrote:

Also may I ask whats up with the shoes?
asking as well.

They look like rocket boosters or something imo.
awp
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Rolled wrote:

Also may I ask whats up with the shoes?
The profile on the boots is too low. It just looks a bit like thick socks with platform-soles; it wouldn't take much to fix.

My biggest issue is with the eyes and the overall shape of the face. Given how flat it is (absence of cheekbones is one major player in this) the face looks almost alien, like those classic huge-black-eyed-bald-with-very-round-head type aliens. Seriously, the eyes are still a bit dark and not vibrant enough. Don't make me hotlink my avatar again >=(
Starrodkirby86
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awp wrote:

Rolled wrote:

Also may I ask whats up with the shoes?
My biggest issue is with the eyes and the overall shape of the face. Given how flat it is (absence of cheekbones is one major player in this) the face looks almost alien, like those classic huge-black-eyed-bald-with-very-round-head type aliens. Seriously, the eyes are still a bit dark and not vibrant enough. Don't make me hotlink my avatar again >=(
I concur with this. I thought this was supposed to be a specific style you were aiming for Loginer, but apparently if someone is complaining about it I might as well too.

Oh, and where's the ears...?

Nevertheless that's a really nice model you have. :)
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Starrodkirby86 wrote:

Oh, and where's the ears...?
Behind the hair, don't you see them? :P
Loginer
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I've thinned the calves down slightly, and I've improved the boots.
I've also added some cheekbones. I'll improve them if necessary, but do they give the face more depth or not?



awp
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Every little bit brings it closer and closer. That might be pronounced enough; it's a bit hard to tell from just one view, and with the texturing incomplete.
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awp
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LuigiHann wrote:

I think once you give her a mouth, she'll look like a person, and people won't nitpick the face as much.
Oh, don't misunderestimate me~

LuigiHann wrote:

As for the boots, the soles should be more solid; right now it looks like each boot is sitting on two discs. Something like this would look better, I think. http://www.whitesboots.com/assets/img/categories/boots.jpg
Those boots are a pretty good example, actually. At first I was like "well, not quite" but then I looked at it again and went "oh yes".
Loginer
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LuigiHann wrote:

As for the boots, the soles should be more solid; right now it looks like each boot is sitting on two discs.
If you mean the soles being too "round" at the bottom, I think I've solved the problem. Or is it something else?
And here's another face render. Guess I have to "focus" the cheekbones more.



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lukewarmholiday
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face is too triangular, flat and doesn't have much definition whatsoever, adding a mouth wont change those problems and people will still nitpick the face.

I'm about to just draw what I think would fix it since I'm terrible at describing. the hair also doesn't cover enough of the head. but i think you already mentioned that needed to be fixed. One immediate thing I noticed was the chin. In fact I think ill just bring up the original picture.



The chin doesn't start closing until below the eyes.

From what i've seen from more accomplished modelers is that they try to form the body right from a profile view, then they try to make it look correct from a side view and then clean it up.(but this process would require a profile pic and a side view pic)

I really hated making this post because I have next to 0 experience with 3D modeling.
Loginer
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LuigiHann wrote:

You fixed one issue with the boots, but not the main problem I have. Hope this illustrates it a bit better.

Look at the bottom of any pair of shoes or boots. The sole is all one piece, even though it's thickest at the heel.
Ah, now I get it. Should be easy to add.

lukewarmholiday wrote:

face is too triangular, flat and doesn't have much definition whatsoever, adding a mouth wont change those problems and people will still nitpick the face.

I'm about to just draw what I think would fix it since I'm terrible at describing. the hair also doesn't cover enough of the head. but i think you already mentioned that needed to be fixed. One immediate thing I noticed was the chin. In fact I think ill just bring up the original picture.

Img

The chin doesn't start closing until below the eyes.

From what i've seen from more accomplished modelers is that they try to form the body right from a profile view, then they try to make it look correct from a side view and then clean it up.(but this process would require a profile pic and a side view pic)

I really hated making this post because I have next to 0 experience with 3D modeling.
The face only looks like it's flat because of the lighting, and I'm working on the definition. I'll see what I can do with the chin, though. And yes, I know about modeling stuff that way, but no one was up for the job of drawing references back when I started modeling Pippi.
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awp
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I drew Pippi from the shoulders up twice in the last month at face view and side view
Loginer
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I don't think it would be very useful now, though.
awp
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It's never too late~
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I didn't read all the posts, but if no one has pointed this out before I think her head is too small. Isn't a human head ~1/4 - 1/5 the height?
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NCDyson
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A friend of mine who knows Sarumaru said he's been pretty busy these last few months.

When you get as far as rigging and animating her, you should totally do a video of her dancing...
I wanna see her shake her groove thing :)
Loginer
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I've updated the shape of the head slightly. This is what the head would look like if it was 1/4 of the height (it is currently 1/6, and let's pretend the neck is a little longer than it is). I think it's too large.

While we're at it, this is what the head would look like in a nightmare.

Oh, and I fixed the shoes.
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Personally, I think the bigger head looks amazing. Sure it may not be very anatomically correct, but it really pulls it all together imo. It's just when the head was smaller it seemed like something was missing, and a lot of that was filled imo when you made it larger.

Also, boots look much better. Legs look much better. Everything really went a step up.

edit: shoes do look better, but I think the bridge from heel to toe can be brough down a bit further.
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Starrodkirby86
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Last edited by Starrodkirby86 , edited 1 time in total.
devkit4384
221 posts
Here since the beginning
devkit4384
great improvements
Last edited by devkit4384 , edited 1 time in total.
Loginer
osu! Alumni
3,459 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
Loginer
I've resized the head properly, new picture below. Should I make the scarf bigger or not?

Starrodkirby86 wrote:

But looking at the drawing over there, it doesn't seem the buttons should be that large.
Fixed.

Starrodkirby86 wrote:

EDIT: Curiosity question. I noticed in the Saramaru drawing and in the Catch the Beat picture Pippi has a cleavage at where the star is on her chest. Though there's other images of her (Most notably the famous chibi of her I think and your model) with the cleavage not apparent and no skin showing at the star area...I never been long enough to see the creation of her so I'm a bit confused with this matter. Regardless, nice model...nice model...
The star was originally supposed to have a hole in the middle, but that was removed from the design at some point. The hole on the CtB Pippi is not supposed to be there.

devkit4384 wrote:

with the release of my updated oto2 theme i give you:
*combo.png*
That reminds me: You'll be able to modify Pippi's textures.

lukewarmholiday
2,148 posts
Joined June 2008
lukewarmholiday
Nice job
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