My fault, sorry. >> I wanted to conceal my bad mod, but now it's out in the open.Project Railgun wrote:
A note to novice modders: stop hiding your mods inside boxes. It makes it more difficult for other users to check.
Reserving this spot for my mod.
Zero__wind wrote:
M4M from my queue
Red: unrankable issues
Purple: highly recommend to fix
General
there's big hitsound delay in your soft-hitclap.wav and soft-hitfinish2.wav and this is unrankable. plz use this instead fixed, thank you <3
your preview point is unsnapped, plz resnap it properly to somewhere like 01:42:370 - actually preview points don't need to be snapped, and often it's better if they aren't because of song select's fade-in effect. as for location, i like putting preview point at the beginning of the song to not spoil the music x3
muffled voice
00:37:870 (1) - this slider seems too twisted imo, neither the music nor the vocal gave me this kind of feeling changed
00:39:584 (4) - probably need a whistle on head for piano
00:49:870 (6) - ^
01:27:155 (1,3) - moving the NC to 3 seems to make the NC usage more consistent whoops, fixed
01:40:870 (1) - you could use a gradually increasing volume for this spinner, it should fit the music nicely good idea~
01:44:727 (1,2) - the spacing feels too small for kiai mm well the intention was to emphasize the playing of the sliderbodies and prepare for the larger jump, but in a way i agree with you as well.. i think if i move the second one a bit i can make both effects work
02:06:155 (5,6) - ^ disagree here, i would like to emphasize the straight slider motions and have some stopping effect of the cursor to focus on the drums
02:33:584 (2,1) - I expected a bigger spacing here considering the finish on 02:34:441 (1) - was originally going for slowing down w/ the ending of the kiai, but spacing more doesn't really mean it isn't slowing down, so fixed
03:51:155 (4) - you really need a jump for the finish sound here hm imo the straight slider motion also works for similar reasons as before, the pushing in the same direction across the screen gives a nice emphasis feeling for me, so i think i will keep this for now
04:00:155 (1) - wtf, never saeen lazier mapping than this. I think you can try some hitsounding with sliderticks (like the "meltdown sliders" in this map)if you do want to keep this one ;c its not laziness.. i just want to show off the vocals in the best way.. i got the idea from an old version of this map. slidertick sounding would be rly nice imo, but for now Naitoshi can't find samples that fit so we'll wait
05:12:584 - adding a circle here can probably make the rhythm easier to read imo, well, you'd better make the spacing between 05:12:370 (2,3,4) - smaller if you do so though well, i think the rhythm is fine enough for reading because of the spacing, at least most testplayers have ss'd this part iirc, so i'd rather leave it as is
05:15:584 (1) - wow this jump is super big oh tru, fixed x3
oh and naitoshi said no to the other hitsounding stuff
that's all I think
good luck~ thank you for the thorough check, lots of good points brought up <3
uh i'll make a separate post if Railgun mods wwJonawaga wrote:
M4M
[~mod~]Good Luck~!!
- SL 3?
- It looks like these files are unused:
normal-hitfinish3.wav
soft-hitfinish2.wav- And these hitsounds have a delay:
soft-hitclap.wav
soft-hitfinish2.wav all fixed, thanks <3- 01:31:013 (3,4) - Spacing is too close in comparison with 01:30:155 (2,3) - this. Idk if this has been testplayed, but I imagine the player messing up in places like this. it should be fine, i have had lots of testplays and nobody misread here, the lower spacing is for the closer beat snap
- 01:35:941 (8) - This pattern emphasizes (8) in a weird way. Change it unless that's what you want. i like it like this ww, it really emphasizes the downbeat more than anything imo
- 01:46:441 (1,2) -
I tried 1/8 jumping here while playingww- 02:07:013 (1,2,3) - This spacing is evil. well this is similar to many meta stacking patterns, the player will just look to the approach circle since they already know the circle's location, this is fine imo
- 02:10:013 (1,2,3,1) - These patterns seem like too much for a Hard. marathon maps have no really difficulty in mind
- 02:11:084 (2,3) - Jump is too high. same as the earlier jump, and enough time to catch it because it's close to the previous slider almost like a stacking pattern
- My main problem so far is that the spacing is hard to recognize. This is especially bad for hard players, and this map has a Hard icon currently.
- 02:56:513 (3,4,5) - The spacing is evil again. these are all so close the approach circles overlap, so it's easy to read
- 04:29:727 (2,3,4) - The same distance but different gaps in the music. This pattern could be confusing. this happened earlier as well ww, and it should be fine imo because jumping from a slider to a circle plays different than from a circle to a circle (though yes, as far as spacing goes, this is most questionable in the map i agree, it should still be fine for pacing imo)
- 04:31:870 (2,3) -
I tried 1/8 jumping here while playingww- Okay, I wasted most of my mod on spacing...
something I don't really understand...sorry about that, have a star once you revive this no mod is a waste, my intentions being questioned is always good practicing for me to explain what im looking for, thank you for the mod and the star <3
Xilver wrote:
naitoshi is cute my waifu
[General]
I liked how you did the HW style preview point where you put it at the start of the song, feels very ominous/melodic thanksofc like everything else in mapping hw's preview points are best
I feel like you could be fine with OD7 to prevent notelock on the 1/3 parts mm id rather keep it at od6, slow slow stream beats wont notelock like you say
[muffled voice]
I really don't know what exactly to adress here. I'm guessing this style of visuals is done on purpose (taken from HW i'm guessing) so i'll try to focus on other things ty, i appreciate this :3
00:04:441 (2,3) - feels weird how this is mapped at 1/4th and the previous part is mapped at 1/2th despite being practically the same melody yes the intro rhythms are all weirdlike but they are the most important feeling beats to me, and also all exist to introduce reading concepts used throughout the map, so i probably wont change any rhythms in this intro
00:12:155 (3,4) - could probably move this to the right more to equal the spacing a bit haha well i dont really think any larger ds would fit well here xp
00:19:013 (4) - extend this to the red tick?
00:25:655 (3,4) - could probably want to make this have the same spacing as 00:24:155 (1,2) - and maybe avoid the overlap it does with 00:27:155 (5) - by moving it more down? actually it used to match that ds before but multiple experienced modders brought up that it obscures the repeat arrow so i changed it to this, and as for overlap well, i never really mind that because of the play experience x3
00:29:084 - try this rhythm instead? emphasizes the vocals more and the repeat slider makes more sense in terms of fitting to the vocals at 00:29:727 - than at 00:31:013 -
http://puu.sh/r9KNd/b5ca95ea5f.jpg (4 starts at 00:29:084 - ) i prefer my rhythm because of active/passive rhythming stuff with the vocals, hard to describe w/out long paragraphs of text x:
00:42:798 (4) - 00:43:441 (5) - these type of sliders are unfitting and don't belong with the rest, i suggest just going for straight/curve hmm after much consideration i suppose you're right, though i don't really care about visuals very much, simple curves overall would fit better, changed for all instances of this
00:48:155 - vocals get really powerful here, i suggest increasing the spacing a bit to emphasize that intensity i dont think that's necessary because i already increase direction changes a lot here for emphasis
01:16:441 (3,4,5,6) - this type of spacing doesn't really make sense because the piano is pretty much as intense as the parts before it but this is really tiny compared to 01:09:584 (3,4,5,6) - or 01:13:013 (3,4,5) - it has to do with the piano's pitch, it's much lower here than before, it's alwso why there's a jump at 01:13:441 (5,6) -
01:22:441 - pretty powerful part here too, suggest increasing spacing as well too (esp since naitoshi seemed to increase hs volume on this part aswell) again, i use a lot of direction changes here for similar effect
01:49:441 (1,2,3) - honestly im not sure there's even a 1/3 in this part of the song, i don't really hear it (applies to other instances where you used the same stacked pattern) will only say this once instead of throughout, but all 1/3 i've used does exist in the song as quiet drum beats, even the one you were 100% sure about, perhaps turn you hitsound volume to 0 and check again at 25% but i've had others confirm already
also not to mention that stacking a 1/3 after not using any in the map at all is pretty bad and really hard to sightread haha this is somewhat fair, but it's not like there was 1/4 before this, and imo any rhythm is readable when stacked, which is why you see patterns like the axion stacked stream show up
03:02:941 (3,4,5,6,7) - this type of spacing is really confusing for the kind of rhythm you used. i suggest overlapping 3 a bit with the slider before it to indicate the 1/4th and space 3 out from 4 to indicate the shift back to 1/2 well, this is just simple ar reading, when notes are this close together it isn't confusing at all imo
03:35:298 (7) - pretty unfitting shape, i can't really hear anything you'd want to emphasize with a different shape in this part so this just looks kinda bad, suggest just doing curve or straight
03:47:298 (3) - i'd curve this, this looking straight is kind of weird http://puu.sh/r9Ltp/f07b479f1e.jpg ok, tho curving more for play experience than visuals
04:00:155 (1) - i have nothing wrong with the speed of the slider, rather the shape and how organized it looks compared to the rest of the map which has a rather disorganized feel to it, could probably want to make the shape have that same feeling aswell lol well idk what to say in response to this, i like this slider's design tho x:
04:58:977 (2) - can't really hear what this is mapped to honestly uh i swear there were drum beats there .-. well i cant hear them anymore so changed to something that's way nicer feeling anyway
05:01:441 (1,2,3,1) - ok for this one i'm 100% sure there's no 1/3 here whatsoever, clear 1/2 beats playing in the background
and really because i've addressed this, you REALLY want to check all your 1/3rd in this map to make sure they're actually mapped to anything in the song, because honestly i couldn't hear most of them.
05:18:584 (1) - ctrl g maybe? creates nice emphasis haha this is def where we differ as mappers since i suggested the opposite on your map, i prefer this antijump style pattern for emphasis into the slow slider
alright, that's what i got. aside from the 1/3 stuff this map is really unique/special, and your use of emphasis was really good to emphasize a powerful song like this.
this was quite the experience to mod, starred. gl with ranking and thanks for modding my map c: thank you for the star, and for trying your hardest with modding my map :>
toybot wrote:
late m4m ;d
[muffled voice]
you seem to really like using weird overlaps throughout the map, so i won't make suggestions on them appreciated :3cool map gl thank you for modding, you got me to change an intro rhythm which i thought would never happen o:
- 00:36:155 - throughout this section, you heavily focus on the vocal line, so making this hittable would help it be consistent in that changed
- 00:47:298 (6) - kinda feel like the tension(?) in the voice here is kinda underwhelmed when you make it a simple 1/1 rhythm well, i think lifting the key up after 1/1 gap fits with the way the vocals build up like this
- 01:04:441 (5,6,7,8) - maybe make this a perfect rhombus? keeps the aesthetics clean like how you did 01:01:013 (5,6,7,8) - and 00:57:584 (5,6,7,8) - perfect rhombus doesnt make the objects overlap enough for piano emphasis imo (i did try to centre it better tho)
- 01:13:441 (5,7) - should just stack these tbh, the hitburst can still be seen over 7 and it looks weird af mm idk i dont really like how stacking here plays ^^'
- 01:46:013 (4,5,1) - makes more sense to have 5 closer to 4 for downbeat emphasis, but your spacing overall is pretty wonky lol but most of my downbeats have antijumps to them for emphasis..
- 02:09:584 (1,2) - it would make the transition into 1/3 more readable if you were to enlarge this jump a bit haha it certainly would but i dont really think prioritizing readability is a very good idea ever, like for here the direction change and rhythm consistency should be enough for readability, and the current cursor motion is much more fun than larger spacing
- 02:24:799 (2) - okay please stack this on the tail its tilting me hard lol but this style of object placement is becoming more and more popular even
- 02:34:013 (1,2,3,1) - why not make a cute little stream instead of a boring stack O W O W O W O well the chorus is winding down rly weaklike, i dont think a stream would fit here and prefer the direct contrast of the 02:29:941 (2,3,4) - and 02:34:013 (1,2,3,1) - stacks
- 03:05:298 (1) - i really think you should make this shorter and add circles to emphasize the vocals, and to at least make the drum at 03:05:298 (1) - feel more powerful. like, its okay at 03:10:013 (2) - because the vocal actually holds for that long, but here, its shorter mmmm this rhythm is really important to me, it emphasizes the start of this whole verse really well and i dont think ill ever change it ;-;
- 03:18:584 (3) - might as well extend by 1/8 to mimic 03:04:870 (8) - 's effect as a lead-in to the next note well that would be ok, but there are pretty noticeable beats on both of those tails that im mapping, so those parts are different in some way
- 03:32:727 (1) - same as above
- 03:42:155 (8,9) - these look so out of place relative to the curved sliders you usually use lol oops i was supposed to have changed those already after xilver's mod ^^'
- 04:00:155 (1) - mm, last journey home flashbacks lol, its more based on an old ver of yuko's coloring.
- 05:05:298 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - would've been cool if these kept expanding outward or showed some kind of gradual trend, but for now it just feels a bit repetitive on purpose, its the same repeated circles jump style ive used throughout the map like at 02:07:870 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2) - etc
- 05:16:870 (3,4,5) - this feels a bit jarring to me, because 05:17:298 - feels too weakly emphasized.. and the jump angle is awkward to play when its a linear movement but unequal spacing between objects that spacing thing you talk about is so untrue in so many ways i dont know why people say that.. and i do this smaller spacing for low-pitched drums a lot so i think its fine
Nao Tomori wrote:
01:41 *Nao Tomori is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1104145 Itagaki Soutarou - Mugenranbushou(Game size) [Abhor's Normal]]
01:45 UndeadCapulet: 01:25:412 (1,2,3) -
01:46 Nao Tomori: 01:22:148 (6) -
18:01 Nao Tomori: after rain
18:01 UndeadCapulet: :o
18:02 Nao Tomori: irc or vs
18:02 Nao Tomori: vc*
18:02 UndeadCapulet: i'd prefer voice but that's harder to log, so up to you i guess
18:02 Nao Tomori: kk
18:03 Nao Tomori: i'll just use phil's discord cuz
18:03 Nao Tomori: lazy to click on ur name
18:03 Nao Tomori: x d
18:03 UndeadCapulet: im in only2 channel xd
18:03 Nao Tomori: thats so far down
18:03 Nao Tomori: come up here
18:06 Nao Tomori: 00:04:227 -
18:06 UndeadCapulet: 00:06:798 (5) -
18:06 UndeadCapulet: 00:03:584 (1,2) -
18:07 UndeadCapulet: 00:02:727 (5,1) -
18:07 UndeadCapulet: 00:05:513 (3,4) -
18:08 Nao Tomori: 00:06:798 (5) -
18:09 Nao Tomori: 00:11:298 (2) -
18:10 Nao Tomori: 00:14:298 (2) -
18:12 Nao Tomori: 00:14:298 (2,3) -
18:18 UndeadCapulet: 00:15:584 (4,5,6) -
18:19 Nao Tomori: 00:17:941 -
18:19 UndeadCapulet: http://puu.sh/tYZQ6/7b6f507879.jpg
18:21 UndeadCapulet: http://puu.sh/tYZXQ/3fbbb62f87.jpg
18:22 UndeadCapulet: http://puu.sh/tYZYZ/9fa76fcce9.jpg
18:24 Nao Tomori: 00:07:029 -
18:25 UndeadCapulet: 00:20:513 (7,1) -
18:29 Nao Tomori: 00:28:227 -
18:36 UndeadCapulet: http://puu.sh/tZ0YR/8e30e6bf43.jpg
18:36 UndeadCapulet: http://puu.sh/tZ10k/cd8ca8e738.jpg
18:37 UndeadCapulet: http://puu.sh/tZ13y/4670343c36.jpg
18:40 Nao Tomori: 00:32:513 (3) -
18:42 Nao Tomori: 00:41:298 (1) -
18:44 UndeadCapulet: http://puu.sh/tZ1wh/241e330127.jpg
18:44 UndeadCapulet: 00:27:155 (5,1) -
18:45 Nao Tomori: 00:47:298 (6) -
18:45 UndeadCapulet: http://puu.sh/tZ1zK/c6702cc30a.jpg
18:49 Nao Tomori: 00:48:798 (2) -
18:50 Nao Tomori: 00:52:870 (3,4) -
18:50 UndeadCapulet: 00:49:870 (6) -
18:52 UndeadCapulet: http://puu.sh/tZ27f/b8f25aa297.jpg
18:55 Nao Tomori: 01:27:584 (1) -
18:59 Nao Tomori: 01:04:441 (5,6,7,8) -
19:03 Nao Tomori: 01:01:013 (5,6,7,8) -
19:04 Nao Tomori: 01:12:155 (1,2) -
19:06 Nao Tomori: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7299948
19:06 UndeadCapulet: http://puu.sh/tZ31J/f0eb9cda8c.jpg
19:08 Nao Tomori: 01:15:370 (9) -
19:09 Nao Tomori: 01:17:083 (6) -
19:11 Nao Tomori: 01:20:513 (4) -
19:12 UndeadCapulet: 01:20:727 (5) -
19:12 Nao Tomori: 01:21:584 (7) -
19:14 UndeadCapulet: 01:09:584 (3,4,5,6) -
19:14 UndeadCapulet: 01:13:655 (6) -
19:16 Nao Tomori: 01:16:974 -
19:19 UndeadCapulet: 01:10:226 (6,7) -
19:21 UndeadCapulet: 01:17:083 (6) -
19:22 UndeadCapulet: 01:21:370 (6) -
19:22 Nao Tomori: 01:25:012 (3) -
19:23 UndeadCapulet: 01:21:370 -
19:26 Nao Tomori: 01:37:655 (5) -
19:27 UndeadCapulet: http://puu.sh/tZ4pS/c079b5de0c.jpg
19:28 Nao Tomori: 01:38:727 (7) -
19:30 *UndeadCapulet is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/934012 FELT - After rain [muffled voice]]
19:31 Nao Tomori: 01:44:298 (4,5,1) -
19:31 Nao Tomori: 01:45:584 (3) -
19:32 UndeadCapulet: http://puu.sh/tZ4KQ/d9cba7d2d4.jpg
19:32 Nao Tomori: 01:46:013 (4,5) -
19:33 Nao Tomori: 01:48:584 (6) -
19:34 UndeadCapulet: http://puu.sh/tZ4U5/6992fb7510.jpg
19:38 Nao Tomori: 01:51:584 (1) -
19:38 Nao Tomori: 01:46:441 (1) -
19:39 UndeadCapulet: http://puu.sh/tZ5hN/acf437b3d5.jpg
19:44 UndeadCapulet: http://puu.sh/tZ5z2/326b57fe98.jpg
19:44 Nao Tomori: 01:57:584 (4,5,6) -
19:45 Nao Tomori: 01:58:870 (1) -
19:51 Nao Tomori: 02:03:584 (1,3) -
19:52 Nao Tomori: 02:10:013 (1,2,3) -
19:55 Nao Tomori: 02:15:370 (4) -
19:56 Nao Tomori: 02:13:441 (4,5,1) -
19:57 UndeadCapulet: http://puu.sh/tZ6v8/13b6f410c8.jpg
19:59 Nao Tomori: 02:24:798 (2) -
19:59 Nao Tomori: 00:23:084 (5,6) -
20:00 UndeadCapulet: http://puu.sh/tZ6Hx/b5f3c70adf.jpg
20:00 Nao Tomori: 02:26:084 (6) -
20:01 Nao Tomori: 02:32:727 (5) -
20:03 Nao Tomori: 02:56:727 (4) -
20:05 Nao Tomori: 03:00:370 -
20:10 Nao Tomori: 03:05:298 (1) -
20:11 Nao Tomori: 03:07:655 (6,7) -
20:13 Nao Tomori: 03:17:298 (5) -
20:14 Nao Tomori: 03:16:441 (3,5) -
20:15 Nao Tomori: 03:19:870 (3) -
20:16 Nao Tomori: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7300372
20:17 Nao Tomori: 03:23:727 (5) -
20:20 UndeadCapulet: http://puu.sh/tZ7ZX/90ac4e93ac.jpg
20:21 Nao Tomori: 03:26:727 (3) -
20:22 Nao Tomori: 03:27:370 (5,6) -
20:26 Nao Tomori: 03:39:584 (1,3) -
20:26 Nao Tomori: 03:41:298 (5) -
20:27 UndeadCapulet: http://puu.sh/tZ8tq/1c8f777593.jpg
20:30 UndeadCapulet: http://puu.sh/tZ8H3/b5b73d3ad0.jpg
20:32 Nao Tomori: 03:42:155 (8,9) -
20:34 Nao Tomori: 03:44:727 (6,2) -
20:34 Nao Tomori: 03:45:584 (1) -
20:34 Nao Tomori: 03:46:441 (1) -
20:35 Nao Tomori: 03:47:941 (4) -
20:36 Nao Tomori: 03:56:727 (8) -
20:41 UndeadCapulet: 02:34:441 (1) -
20:41 UndeadCapulet: 02:30:584 (1) -
20:45 UndeadCapulet: http://puu.sh/tZ9Gd/e504356b87.jpg
20:46 UndeadCapulet: 02:34:441 (1) -
20:48 Nao Tomori: 04:29:298 (1,2,1) -
20:53 Nao Tomori: 04:48:155 (1,3) -
20:54 UndeadCapulet: http://puu.sh/tZafK/640e1f2d03.jpg
20:55 Nao Tomori: 04:58:441 (1,2,3) -
20:55 Nao Tomori: 04:55:013 (1,2) -
20:58 Nao Tomori: 05:09:905 (6,7) -
20:59 Nao Tomori: 05:14:513 (2) -
21:03 UndeadCapulet: http://puu.sh/tZaNz/0f33fafda8.jpg
21:03 Nao Tomori: 05:14:941 (4,1,2) -
21:04 UndeadCapulet: http://puu.sh/tZaVl/9794fa570b.jpg
21:06 UndeadCapulet: http://puu.sh/tZb3F/70b0745496.jpg
21:08 UndeadCapulet: http://puu.sh/tZbaF/9fab7a1363.jpg
21:15 *UndeadCapulet is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/201700 Leftymonster - START]
21:15 UndeadCapulet: 00:18:143 (1) -
21:23 *Nao Tomori is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/271 Sakai Kanako - Cheer! ~Makkana Kimochi~]
21:29 Nao Tomori: 03:22:378 -
...Naitoshi wrote:
HOW DO YOU PRONOUNCE YOUR NAME?! YOHANES?!
I understand my map looks like a bit of a mess, especially to anyone who hasn't talked to me before, but I'm fairly confident that I have a lot of internal consistency, albeit maybe not in obvious visual ways. I appreciate the time you took to write all of this up, but since we seem to have very different mapping philosophies, a lot of it was rejected. I hope you understand where I'm coming from, and that all of my wordings made some form of sense to you ;w;Kisses wrote:
[]A lot of stuff I said can be repeated for similar objects. I brought up consistency a lot at first because I do think it's important in songs such as these. Sorry if I came across as rude in my mod btw. Well, GL! you didn't come off as rude at all, dw~muffled voice
- 00:00:156 (1,2,3,4) - Why does 00:00:156 (1,2) - have a different stack to 00:01:441 (3,4) ? what are you going for? the start of the song is incredibly quiet so i use a slow buildup of motion and rhythm throughout the intro. this is just the most direct example of that, using a perfect stack to start the map with absolutely zero motion. if you look at 00:13:870 (1,2,3,4) - there are similar differences in spacing, but since this part of the map has achieved more motion, there's more motion here
- 00:03:584 (1) - Underlaps like these break down the structure of your map, can sometimes throw players, most of the time don't look appealing (this isn't an exception) and just looks really random, though that ties along with the breaks down the structure part. you use the word "structure" here, i can only assume you mean visual structure, but all i aim for in mapping is gameplay stuffs that expresses the song. if that results in something looking "ugly", then so be it. but if you look carefully you'll see lots of consistency in gameplay concepts. here for example, i want the player to move back from the slidertail into the head to emphasize the strong downbeat here. but since there's also little motion overall in this intro, the result is this placement
- 00:06:798 (5,1) - This is the part where it would be a good idea to use small spacing instead of a stack. It would make sense with the other patterns such as 00:08:513 (3,4) - and when you have things like these done consistently the whole map becomes easier to read and less frustrating to the player stack here is for the super weak quiet high pitched piano key that isnt remotely similar to 00:08:513 (3,4) - . but it is the same as 00:20:513 (7,1) - , which i do keep consistent
- 00:13:870 (1) - And increase in spacing would have been nice. I really don't understand the thought behind the placement when you put it 2/3 thirds in between 00:13:012 (4) - and 00:12:155 (3) . Again stuff like this makes the map look random and unpolished
- 00:17:084 - If you're gonna map this then you should at least map 00:16:870 i see where you're coming from here, but that would be too much note density overall and those other sounds are more like echoes for me anyway so personally dont want to map them
- 00:15:584 (4,5,6,1) - I just don't see how this pattern would be readable. I mean I guess some people are good enough to sight read but most people would have to really focus since the spacing and structure don't reflect the rhythm at all i assure you this is super easy to sightread as i have gotten lots of testplays and nobody breaks here. it's not even remotely difficult lol..
- 00:17:941 (2,3) - Now I can't tell if this is a mis-stack or deliberate small spacing. If it's the small spacing it would be bad because it's different to all the other 1/4 spacings such as 00:08:513 (3,4) . If it's a stack then similar point to what I said before it is deliberate, lol, it's a custom stack since the map uses sl2, and i prefer for the stack to follow along with the sliderbody motion
- 00:33:155 (4,5) - recommend using same spacing as 00:08:513 (3,4) or vice versa. This goes for a lot of other rhythms like this prefer the hard stop here to lead into the next vocal line, i dont agree with using the exact same circle overlap style just for visuals, it detracts from the gameplay
- 01:09:370 (2,3,4,5) - These are all part of the same piano riff so why is (2) not grouped up with (3,4,5) ? same for 01:12:798 (2,3,4,5) - your idea also works but i prefer to separate here to denote the volume of the keys better, and to also represent vocals to an extent
- 01:31:655 (4,5) - and then you use different spacing for the circle slider pattern. The reason you've done this doesn't seem to be clear within the song either i can only assume your complaint is about visuals again which is not an issue for me as expressed before. this placement is to make clear iit starts at a 3/4 gap and then to emphasize the right angle that's formed here
- 01:34:441 (5,6,7,8,1) - Yeah this is just straight up unreadable. can you you choose to express this part of the song with this specific pattern? this is also really easy to read lol.. and it is also already really different from any other pattern, and also i love it :3
- 01:36:584 (2) - ^ on top of those high space jumps you jump again to this note which puts a lot of strain of you and this a minor beat. i dont understand, this is a 1/2 gap at 90bpm its not a jump
- 01:46:013 (4,5,1) - the flow is really un-intuitive. It's bad. Going from 5 to 1 is really uncomfortable and really rigid, it also doesn't seem to fit in the the concept of the rest of the map flow is a government conspiracy, im specifically looking for a harsh motion here to emphasize vocals
- 01:51:584 (1) - ^ the existence of this arrangement as well should make it clear this in consistent and intentional, no?
- 01:49:441 (1,2,3) - A lot of people are going to misread this as 1/4 beats, you have to do something to make this pattern more distinguishable imho this is a valid concern and one that multiple other modders have brought up, but imo it should be fine for reading. the concept of "any rhythm in a stack is readable" is becoming more and more popular especially in the chinese mapping scene. i've been considering stacking these onto the next slider as well to make it more obvious it's a 1/3 quad, but.. i like the jump motion too much ^^'
- 01:56:655 (4) - Unused timing point it actually is used to turn kiai off
- 01:56:298 (1,2,3) - The 1/6 pattern you have before was stacked and this isn't. This in a way kind of shows the important of consistency in patterns because you have spaced 1/4 patterns, spaced 1/6 patterns. stacked 1/4 patterns, stacked 1/6 patterns, patterns with different spacings and it's all thrown in together where the music doesn't change so it becomes a bit of a cluster fuck and really difficult to read. I also feel that spaced streams fit the song these drum beats are clearly way louder than the earlier 1/6 pattern so the spacing changes as well, and the spaced stream nature is to express the powerful vocals and give the downbeat power as well
- 02:10:013 (1,2,3) - Ok last thing about spacing of patterns. I just want to use this as an example to put the nail in the coffin. When you play 02:07:655 (3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2) - you're going to assume 02:10:013 (1,2,3) are 1/4 beats too because of the structural spacing and instinctively play them that way too. Because the drums are somewhat quiet the player isn't really going to pick up on that anyone with basic rhythm sense and understanding of song composition will expect 1/3 here because there was 1/3 at the same points throughout the kiai. it's also clearly distinct by the object arrangement and nc job
- 02:15:370 (4) - fancy sliders are nice in all but.... you just threw this in randomly, none of the other sounds similar to this have sliders this extravagant except it's a direct contrast to the play motion of 01:48:584 (6) - , which had a loud symbol crash, and this part doesnt even though it's the same vocal line
- 03:46:013 (3) - The song doesn't do anything fancy or change drastically at all so why the SV change? Really, really unexpected to play and doesn't seem to fit the song like all the other .5x sv changes i use, this is stressing the heavily stressed high pitched vocal and is consistent with the rest of this section
- 03:49:870 (1) -^ also you could at least NC 03:50:727 (3) - to signal to the playing you're speeding things up again 1.0x is the basic sv of this section which you can see with many surrounding objects, and NC's dont make sv changes any more readable and would just clutter up the nc job
- 04:00:155 (1) - Ok so first off, from the player's perspective, this is boring to play. Playing a single slider with such a low SV for an extended amount of time can be boring in itself but even more so when there are a lot of other stuff passing in the background, which leads on into the second point. What is this mapping exactly? There are a lot of stuff going on in the background, there are vocals and the piano so why are you mapping to something non existent (if it does exist I can't hear it clearly and I'm sure a player would be scratching their head as to what it is as well. see p/5815260 for the explanation of this slider (after i make a quick edit to it orz)
- 04:23:727 (2) - This is nice idea to capture the build up but ending this so close to 04:24:156 (1) on the timeline makes it very, very easy to slider break at a regular bpm this is just a 1/6 slider which isnt hard at all to move to another object from
- 04:26:084 (2) - i wanted to point out this individually, this spacing is really huge and it is, to me, a really minor beat lol you're not wrong, but a 1/1 gap here fits the drums best so i used a big spacing to keep the buildup feeling powerful, this isn't hard to play or anything so it's good for me
- 05:18:584 (1) - In my experience of mapping spinners are more fun to play as an outro, something to consider i dont really like spinners for fade-out effects. they're a valid technique, just not for me
- 04:51:584 - This is the only place in the map where you have a finish hitsound on a passive beat (slider end). Recommend to make this beat clickable. actually i really like ending sections with slidertails like this, and there are other places in the map that have strong sounds on slidertails followed by a gap in objects
- 04:49:013 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - This whole pattern has high spacings and youre dragging your cursor all across the screen. It doesn't feel natural and fluid especially compared to a lot of your other patterns i actually don't entirely disagree here. this isn't hard to play or anything but lowering spacing would probably fit better
Spacing
Spacing emphasis seems to be non existent or just inconsistent. More emphatic notes such as 00:22:441 (4) receive no spacing emphasis whilst minor notes such as 00:25:655 (3) and 00:53:727 (5) and 01:54:798 (4) get really high *relative" spacing hm i think the main problem is that you consider any 1/2 gap in this map to be a "jump", despite this being 70bpm and that being a really long gap in notes, so nothing really plays like jumps at all
I disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeI disagreeNaitoshi wrote:
I disagree
ty for recheck <3Zero__wind wrote:
recheck as requested
General
clear
muffled voice
00:44:298 (5,1) - this jump feels a bit too big in this part as there's nothing important on the head of 00:44:727 (1) - , better try to make the spacing smaller i agree, fixed
01:39:370 (9) - maybe move it a bit more to the right so that the whole pattern 01:38:727 (7,8,9,1) - express the crescendo better messed with the pattern a bit, hope it's better now
02:07:655 (3,1) - exchange NC to to avoid misunderstanding? the current setting makes 02:07:227 (2,3) - feel like 1/4 should be fine imo since the 02:07:013 (1,3) - stacking makes seeing approach circles easy, i don't really like nc'ing for reading stuff but instead to show off instrumental patterns like the drum patterns in 02:07:870 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2) -
03:25:441 (3) - NC for slowdown? just like 04:47:727 (1) - actually i want to remove the 04:47:727 (6) - nc lol.. i don't think sv change nc's are ever needed (or even that helpful), and for these slowdowns the sliders are always right next to the next downbeat slider so it's easy to see the approach circle, so it's easy to tell there's an sv change. 04:47:727 (6) - had a new combo for a special effect, but now it kinda seems out of place, so i think i'm gonna remove nc there ^^'
03:56:727 (1) - need normal finish addition added
05:12:798 - add a circle here? I think it makes the rhythm more coherent and easier to grab, but you need to reduce spacing to 05:13:013 (5) - if you add circle i think this shows off the drums in the best way, and none of my testplays have messed this up, the large spacing makes the 3/8 rhythm pretty clear, really want to keep this ;w;
not much
Nao Tomori wrote:
#3
Can you like, not troll with theseZero__wind wrote:
#65535
Kisses wrote:
Nao Tomori wrote:
#3Can you like, not troll with theseZero__wind wrote:
#65535
Gabe wrote:
Thank you for looking at the timing, Ongaku! :p
hi this maps style isnt consistent with my own so therefore its bad! gl!Nao Tomori wrote:
I disagree with the visual style. Vetoed! Have fun!
its NOT my style, ALL CHANGE !!Xexxar wrote:
hi this maps style isnt consistent with my own so therefore its bad! gl!Nao Tomori wrote:
I disagree with the visual style. Vetoed! Have fun!
soulfear wrote:
No,thank you
fuckin rektNaitoshi wrote:
tl;dr:soulfear wrote:
No,thank you
UndeadCapulet wrote:
loved is lame
Thank you for checking oko!Okorin wrote:
hmm
i said all of this in pm already but w/e
i think in the very beginning until 00:27:600 - a few accents set through circles seem a bit unfitting (as in trying to interpret the song in a way that isn't really straightforward)
00:04:457 (2,3,4,5) -
00:17:957 (2,3,4,5) -
00:20:529 (7) -
00:25:243 (2,3) -
are the most obvious places where the complexity created by using circles on 1/4 or even just the general rhythm choice create something way more complex than what the song provides in terms of where it's highs are focused and in relation to the rhythm you used previously
messed around with most of these, though i want to keep the high pitched beats that you pointed out as circles, i think they're really important. overall though the intro rhythms should be more logical than before
only thing i find pretty cluttered looking is 00:36:171 (5,6) - because you never did or really do this kind of thing again after a slider changed the 1/4 slider to 1/2
01:56:298 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - poses a rather unplasant reading spike which isn't really kept intuitive through spacing or hitobject usage in general, https://puu.sh/uxvt9/659fa89626.png might just work (less preferably https://puu.sh/uxvvj/bae9c942f7.png) removing 01:56:941 (2) - after all this time, as much as i like the play it provides, in the end it makes for more consistent rhythming and easier 1/3 learning
i like reverse emphasis done okayish (02:30:584 (1) - ending in a stronger sound but followed by a longer than usual break to make it stand out)
the more i listen to them the harder of a time i have grasping if the 1/6 are actually there or not but that might be cuz it's like 4 am or something
04:00:183 (1) - is lame (having it explained previously won't make it any less lame to me, it p much ignores any distinct piano features like the notes on downbeats like 04:03:611 - 04:13:897 - 04:20:754 - or whichever you wanna pick) ;-; i love how this slider expresses this section, i dont ever wanna change it.. even if it means this map can never be ranked, i will fight for it
04:23:754 (1) - doesn't really follow anything imo the more interesting sounds start at 04:23:968 - , so starting that thing there instead of mapping a hold slider on sounds you didn't previously follow would make more sense to me im fairly sure the crescendo-type sound starts at 04:23:754 -
last thing i didn't really like is the way you partially visually obstruct reverse arrows on sliders with either circles or sliders, depending on the skin you use to play the map these are either clearly visible or just barely at all haha, fair enough concern i suppose, but i think people worry about repeat arrow covering more than they should. all the arrows are visible on default skin, which is all rc judges, and except for maybe 04:51:170 (10) - the arrows are mostly visible or given plenty of time to be noticed while the player holds the sliderbody. i think it should be fine
Zero__wind wrote:
recheck no kd
some minor stuff
rpeview point unsnapped, reset to 00:00:064 - instead preview point doesn't need to be snapped, prefer mine to avoid as much song select fade-in as possible
02:29:298 (1) - remove NC for consistency? it currently seems too frequent comparing its former and latter phrases done for both
04:46:455 (1) - ^
ok I think I generally checked this map for too many times thank you so much for all your help zero ;;
call me back
Gabe wrote:
last icon was a bubble pop :thinking:
can't verify it since i'm not oko, but assuming this is true, then it should be bubble #2, i think.UndeadCapulet wrote:
@Xexxar oko says if you don't come back to discuss then your veto won't hold up
I hope the new intro rhythms are better for you
I agreeSophia wrote:
04:00:183 (1) - lol what
Some parts of the map are okay, but others (specially this one) feel disgusting to play, and look lazy as heck.
This slider didn't make me feel like I was into the song, it felt like not playing a map and listening to some good vocals that could have been mapped but weren't.
"Lazy" is the only word I can use to describe this slider.
Monstrata wrote:
A lot of progress was made between bubble-pop and qualification. From what I gathered, you were asked for your opinion and to recheck the map multiple times, but failed to do so for whatever reason. What you veto'ed on may well have been addressed and resolved, but either way, you didn't contribute any further to the discussion after veto'ing despite the discussion and changes that were made after your post, so your veto became invalidated. The decision was made by a member of a QAT.
its not the mappers responsibility to hold your veto.Xexxar wrote:
No one informed me that there was progress being made on the map and yes, I still have issues with this map. I was under the impression I have a right to veto a map for what I believe to be fundamental flaws but I guess not? I supplied my reasons and sure, the mapper defended their points but I still heavily disagree with the overall design on this map, and nothing minor could be changed to fix the overarching flaws within this map. I will be contacting Loctav because this is clearly a breach of the BNG Rules.
ah yes a qat, the voice of godMonstrata wrote:
The decision was made by a member of a QAT.
its not like qat is in charge of bns is it.Xexxar wrote:
ah yes a qat, the voice of godMonstrata wrote:
The decision was made by a member of a QAT.
I HEAVILY disagree with the design of this map, this is not something I believe to be suitable for ranking and and making it 100% clear that I am and still have been VETOing this map with my bubble pop.Xexxar wrote:
[Overall]
- I can continue but overall I believe this map is fundamentally flawed. Specifically designing your mapset to literally be ugly with awkward overlaps and blatantly inconsistent patterning and design is questionable and not something fit for the ranked section of osu! You are going to claim that these overlaps are critical to the design and play style of your map, however I have a hard time believe that poorly constructed and inconsistent amounts of overlaps and slightly inconsistent distance between notes visually adds any difference in the play of your map.
- Usage of inconsistent rhythms and awkward 1/3rd rhythms that are nearly impossible to sight read due to your spacing being everywhere, the player has no reason to expect that 01:49:441 (1,2,3) - is 1/3rd when its patterning is literally designed to show the opposite. 01:56:298 (1,2,3,1) - difficult to read as you have 01:56:941 (2,3) - immediately after which is the same spacing as 01:58:655 (7,8) - and 01:56:584 (3,1) - .
- There doesn't seem to be reason for what is a slider and what isn't. During the kiai you don't really follow anything in particular, and objects that are sliders in one section change to circles in the next. 01:58:870 (8) - vs 01:48:584 (6) - for example. The map seems to be everywhere and doesn't have any real structure behind it.
- 01:56:298 (1,2,3,1,2) - also why are you blasting 2 kiai fountains
just for the record, I never said anything like that lolhi-mei wrote:
Dude you said EXACTLY the opposite to me 6 months ago when same drama appeared in my map.
Literally nobody in playerbase gonna notice how beautiful these irregularities are.Bonsai wrote:
I'm saying that a map can make sense in more ways than just "this single object represents this single beat".