Agree with Paka on non-hyper hard jumps. These are really underrated.
I agree with He Ang Erika, for high ar it's a different thing. It's more about time reaction and guessing pattern/be familiar with them, that's my feeling. For low ar with high bpm it's really difficult to judge timing between fruits by reading.Axiaan wrote:
I disagree with that, it's maybe hard for some players to read low AR (for me, low AR is under 6) but that's the same with players who can't play with high AR, (above 9.5) it's hard for them.He Ang Erika wrote:
5. An AR too low confuses the player as the platter becomes "slippery" (moves way too fast as compared to the dropping fruits), the fruits are harder to read and timings are harder to judge.
Equim wrote:
Partially. But tentatively as a ctb mapper/modder I can tell you that jumps as you said "irregularly" are still experimental, and ctb stream mapping is also so hard to be creative that only one or two ctb mappers can handle this. It's easy to SAY, but it's hard to DO.
Remember, everyone has his own way to enjoy this game. Some enjoy jumps, while some enjoy patherns like you; some enjoy pp, while some don't. While I was a beginner I did enjoy hyperdashes which I thought were cool, and I tried my best to do well in them. Anyways you need to respect to the diversity.
Also, whether you love pp or hate, it's always that you care pp. I suggest you don't always judge a ctb specific map according to pp, since in this way you are likely to ignore what painstaking care the mapper pay in the map. In this point of view I can't agree more with Spectator (see his ask http://ask.fm/Spectat0r/answer/128855444064 and http://ask.fm/Spectat0r/answer/128938149472). In addition, sooner or later the pp arithmetic system will changed, but the quality of a map will still remain.
Gonna have to disagree about spins giving pp due to the fact that I'm sure it's really hard for the game to determine how good your spin actually is and I doubt it can calculate what the best humanly possible spin is.He Ang Erika wrote:
I think spins should reward 0% to 5%pp dependent on how close to max spin. High accuracies should also reward 0 to 5%pp dependent on how close to 100% Accuracy.
It doesn't have to cap at 5% though, just a arbitrary number D:
I'm not sure about how the current system can account for spinners, but mathematically it's very easy to calculate max spin using basic trigonometry. In fact a good spinster can count max spin just based on pure human judgement which is almost flawlessly correct in nearly all patterns. I would say that based on how salad! catches bananas it seems that the system doesn't really include a max spin calculator, but hopefully whenever the engineers find their time they can add on an undisplayed bananas counter and make some pp. I think that the CTB spinner is very unique and heavily skill/experience oriented, to have it just affect score is rather under-appreciated D:Zak wrote:
Gonna have to disagree about spins giving pp due to the fact that I'm sure it's really hard for the game to determine how good your spin actually is and I doubt it can calculate what the best humanly possible spin is.He Ang Erika wrote:
I think spins should reward 0% to 5%pp dependent on how close to max spin. High accuracies should also reward 0 to 5%pp dependent on how close to 100% Accuracy.
It doesn't have to cap at 5% though, just a arbitrary number D:
Accuracy already gives bonus pp.
Often on very hard songs where there are only a few NoMod scores or very easy songs with a bunch of HDHRDT scores, spinners can give you good ranking on the scoreboard, but as for the rest having good spinner has to be coupled with good mods usually if not always involving HD. Otherwise neither getting pp nor top score is very viable. E.g. A NoMod score with ridiculous spin on [Overdose] will be easily pushed off the Top 50 within like a month. DT spinner can hardly outplay or even level HD spinners. HR will bring your score far up, but however good a HR spin it will be dominated by HDHR in the end. To have a ridiculous spin just squeezed away is really unfortunate, at the least a little pp will do some good. Spinner rewards should not be greater or even close to HD rewards or any other score multiplying mods, but I still think that other than 1100 score which is tiny compared to mods, slight pp boost will make pushed-off-the-board mad spins feel more deserving of praise and appreciation.Zak wrote:
I think the possibility of a good spin making you go from not even top 8 all the way to rank 1 is plenty enough.
Not much to say that wasn't said already.BoberOfDarkness wrote:
I would like to see this topic revived, there is not dumb that this pp-sytem is just bad.
They don't gain pp, that's why the system doesn't work loooolZak wrote:
they don't gain pp, that's how the system works
What, sure they system isn't accurate but it does work in the sense that if you don't play anything to gain pp, you're going to get passed by people below you.He Ang Erika wrote:
They don't gain pp, that's why the system doesn't work loooolZak wrote:
they don't gain pp, that's how the system works
By the way I'm 666th pp commentor C: I'm the king noww
I understand what you're getting at, and i surely think that high Circle Size (with difficult patterning) should get reconsideration in the future,Sleepteiner wrote:
Someone said that I should post this in here instead of in the Feature Requests forum. This is about star rating more than performance points, but I hope it still applies.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that the circle size and approach rate extremes should be weighted more in the Catch the Beat star difficulty rating.
I currently have almost 1500 SS ranks in Catch the Beat. Most of those scores are from maps in the 1.8 star and below difficulty range. Around 98% of all of the SS ranks that I have obtained took me anywhere from one to three tries. A few took anywhere from four to fifteen. I was fine with the amount of tries even if it took ten or so. Everything was going great until I ran into Pixel Studio - Gravity [ZOMGWTF]. I've tried that map 226 times and I still haven't even gotten half way through with the perfect mod on. If you don't know what this map is then you are in for a treat because it has a CS of 7, an AR of 10, an OD of 10, and a HP of 9. With Catch the Beat, the map requires fantastic precision and memory.
Is my lack of ability to get a SS rank on this map because I'm simply just not good enough? Yes, but that doesn't take away from the fact that this map should be, in no way, only 1.49 stars in Catch the Beat. Now, I don't claim to know the intricacies of the formula for the Catch the Beat star difficulty rating, but I think something needs to be changed. Weighting approach rate and especially circle size extremes more for the star rating should be able to bump this map way up to at least closer to where it should be.
I do recognize that changing a formula that applies to 40,000 maps to address a problem in only one map would cause more problems than it would fix, but this formula change wouldn't just effect this map since it would beneficial for all small circle size maps. It is consistent that the small circle size maps take me much longer to SS than maps with a normal circle size. In fact, all of the maps that took me more than around six tries were the under-weighted high-CS maps. Through this, I genuinely believe that this change will improve the level of polish in osu!, if only slightly.
Thank you for reading! Have a good day.
I've played so many maps that are downright cancer with HD, but can be played well on DT just after a few tries :X E.g. Fallen Angel [SHD] stuff like that. In general HD would give less pp than DT, but certainly should be more than NoMod.Osten112 wrote:
I think HD should give you less pp and with DT you should get more pp with
I agree with that. There are some maps which gives more than 350pp if FC/SS no mod which are easy to do. My actual top score is around 230pp but I'm able to FC Akatsuki no Tsuki Oriental, Piranha or MegaMan map (or 1/2 miss, but I only want SS), which all gives above 350pp, that's ridiculous. I normally don't have the skill to do a >5 stars map so easily with my rank. (#850) I don't say that there're only easys maps above 5 stars but some are easiers than others, for example as Clana said, L is an hard map for me.Clana wrote:
It's almost off topic but the reason HD is a problem in CTB is because a lack of viable pp maps
If you are a solid player on nomod and farm the popular pp maps (Hanabi Umarudose Xeno etc etc), you land at a solid rank of 80~ as of today
Player B turns out to be a HD player and plays those maps on HD, with an exception of a couple, with the addition of 6~7 HD scores Player B is rank 60~40.
If CTB had more maps that people didn't fc in 15 minutes and move on (Towayori, Genryuu, Dreamless, L) there would be more variety to ranking and also a benefit to becoming better as a player to be able to fc more maps rather than spending 5 plays fcing nomod, 50 on HDing it, then the next 300 trying to HR.
It's not that the devs don't read this thread, it's that there was pretty much only a single person capable of creating the pp formula we currently use, and that person was Tom and he's currently busy with real life. We pretty much need to wait for him to be able to come back or for someone else to come along who is able to adjust the formula accordingly.CelegaS wrote:
It's called hdash overweight. faster hdash = higher stars, but there is some pattern that make hdash easier or harder to pass.
This thread is about pp feedback and suggestions, i think we already said everything about pp and stars problem but it's like devs don't read this thread. It's my feeling, like for many thread in feature request that have no answer for ages.
That specific map hopefully will bring awareness to a need to a new change.He Ang Erika wrote:
I am like pushing and wishing my hardest for a pp revamp, while I know for certainty, deep down in my heart that when Genryuu Kaiko gets dethroned I will cry myself to sleep and never wake up again QAQ
.
.
.
It's 'kay I will get better at putting mods on standard converts map, it'll happen when I wake up from those tears
The interesting part for me now is what penalty Easy has, and why the Effect of DT overweighs it, is it purely based on the AR? or the Mod-MultiplierPakaChan wrote:
About the open sourced thing: The difficulty calculator wasn't open sourced, it's just the pp part after the difficulty was already calculated. (did i word that right?)
Stuff i could gather:
- There's a length multiplier which scales with max combo. It scales linearly up to 3000 combo, after which it's reverse logarithmic scale.
At 375 combo, the multiplier is 1. At 3000 combo the multiplier is 1.35 after which it scales slowly
- The formula for the miss multiplier is (0.97^no_of_misses)
- The formula for combo multiplier is ( player_max_combo ^ 0.8 / beatmap_max_combo ^ 0.8 )
- The formula for acc multiplier is ( acc ^ 5.5 )
(a HR fc on owen tag4 would be ~1300pp according to this)
- AR gives a 10% bonus for each point above 9 and 2.5% bonus for each point bellow 8
- HD gives 5% bonus for AR10-11 and an additional 7.5% for each point bellow 10
- FL gives 35% bonus and reapplies the combo multiplier again ( a 3000 combo map gets 82% more for FL, a 375 combo map gets 35% more)
- NF gives 10% penalty;