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Sonnyc
7,762 posts
Joined June 2008
Sonnyc

Ranking Criteria Council wrote:

This replaces the current method of proposing and amending new rules. Rules and Guidelines are from now on solely pushed by the Council and their discussions.
What happened to the community driven nature of this game?
Why did the ranking criteria amending process rolled back as the previous closed-discussion form that is secretly done?
Did this "Mapset and Spread Restructure" criteria even made a consensus among RC council members?

____________________

As I've understood correctly, it seems that mapsets from now on only allows only one E, N, H, I per mapset.

First of all, I'd like to ask why additional difficulties for lower ones should be considered unrankable. In the newly proposed criteria, it strongly discourages mappers to make potential diversity of lower diffs. Slow or calm song could demand a various ammount of high difficulties, but this rule is prohibiting "E-N-H-H-H-H" mapset, isn't it?

True that the proposed criteria encourages mappers to focus more on game designs, and make them focus more on a balanced spread design without a need of an additional difficulty. However, it is always possible to narrow the design of a spread by adding a balanced additional difficulty, such as an extra diff between Normal and Hard which is normally refered as "Advanced" these days.

Diverse gameplay benefits more of the players, and isn't that what is being mostly done these days?

Wouldn't making that criteria to prevent a "same level of difficulty" being contained in one mapset better in warranting a structured mapset design, than preventing diffs which do not suit in an "E, N, H, I category"?

<Easy - Normal - Light Hard - Light Hard2 - Hard> is definitely silly since it contains two light hards which shows a same level of difficulty.
On the other hand, should <Easy - Normal - Hard - Light Hard - Insane> be also considered unrankble???
I really hope not, since Hard, Light Hard, and Insane are all different in difficulty level.


____________________


osu! is a user-based game. Perhaps a guideline for an abstract "ENHI" could exist, but isn't it the mappers and the community who determines where the diff belongs in ENHI?
Last edited by Sonnyc , edited 1 time in total.
Hpocks
445 posts
Joined January 2015
Hpocks

Loctav wrote:

VINXIS wrote:

Edit: was there even discussion witht he community or qats hOLY
We went through that change with these people t/420229
Well now we can get pissed at these people too.
Nerova Riuz GX
1,413 posts
Joined April 2012
Nerova Riuz GX
...please that doesn't even make sense anymore.

you can't limit the chance of making difference on different diffs. There are more than one way to represent a song, though they might have similar sr, it doesn't mean that they are totally the similar thing.

And that Ultra rule will ruin the mapping/playing course. I believe a "7 star map everywhere" game is definitely not friendly.

tbh the rule can even conflict like half of the maps in pending
Nozhomi
Global Moderator
4,575 posts
Joined May 2013
Nozhomi

ztrot wrote:

I have adjusted the main post there was one thing that wasn't added should clear up some confusion.
The difficulty is not dependent on the star rating. The mapping techniques used within the difficulty and the spread to the surrounding difficulties define the category each difficulty level falls into. Difficulties must be named to reflect that.

that is the section that was missing
So does it mean you can do a set with Insane and Another, or they're both considered as Insane ?
And even if they're not, limit that much spread is bad for all players imo.

Probably one of the worst rule ever.
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden
1st rule: that means Inner Oni (Extra/Expert) must now be on the spread? rip those difficulties then

2nd rule: what? huge NO to this. Variety is beauty and if I want multiple difficulties because I want different style on a same level, I can't now? This seems extremely forced

3rd rule: this will mean an incredible downfall of approval maps, specially on longer (10+ mins) ones

So yeah basically the 3 rules have more downsides than anything and seem like REALLY forced (according to Desp it wasn't even discussed with anyone???)
Bara-
11,979 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-

Loctav wrote:

VINXIS wrote:

Edit: was there even discussion witht he community or qats hOLY
We went through that change with these people t/420229
There was a plan of moddingV2 which would make everything more community based. Now there is only a select few who will choose this? This is absolute bullshit
HappyRocket88
4,322 posts
Joined May 2014
HappyRocket88
I'm still unsure about something: A "decent" spread for standard only can be?

  1. Easy
  2. Normal
  3. Hard
  4. Insane
  5. Extra
So we can't add the well famous Advanced diffs because they're considered now as Hard diffs too? or Hyper for an easier insane?

ahhhh

I agree with the approval rule though. Now it seems to be more approachable to play those approval maps which have "Uncompressed Fury of a Raging Japanese God" as a diff name with an insane diff. xd
CXu
osu! Alumni
3,560 posts
Joined March 2009
CXu
87
^This exists, you know.
Irreversible
osu! Alumni
4,317 posts
Joined December 2011
Irreversible
Approval Rule: Seems acceptable.

About the rest, I have one important question: All these diffs will most likely go into a new mapset, which will obviously get ranked too. Where are the benefits, for anyone?

1) More BNs time is needed, and if you haven't noticed by now, there's a BN crisis.
2) Checking takes more time, as more metadata stuff can be wrong
3) There are more mapsets of one song, which causes a 7 days delay at max, so after these, you'll be at the same point again.

If you pull off such ridiculous restrictions, please give at least some reasons WHY you do that. Otherwise, I can totally understand the communities and my own reaction.
gregest
808 posts
Joined February 2014
gregest

Squigly wrote:

How about, we don't do this. :)
best comment on this thread
Last edited by gregest , edited 1 time in total.
Yuii-
2,501 posts
Joined July 2013
Yuii-
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/801333

Asphyxia is crying right now.
Karen
2,873 posts
Joined August 2013
Karen

neonat wrote:

I cannot agree to limiting 1 difficulty for each level per mapset, there is benefit of having levels between them, like Light Insane for example, or an Advanced in between Normal and Hard.

I'm fine with the Approval rule
^
especially for light insane, i think at least please allow one, if light insane is forbidden, we will see many many mapsets with the same song, and most of the mappers just want to make an insane diff for the song, multiple ranked versions of a same song are kind of waste. Light insane can give mappers the chance to map what they like when they meet a great song and don't want to make a full spread, it's reasonable, and it's not called laziness.

the Approval rule is good, i support.
Euny
2,274 posts
Joined January 2014
Euny
each bpm increase the star rating at different way, for example an extra difficulty in high bpm will be play different to a low bpm extra. so basically will be really hard to have an extra difficulty in high bpm map. because, we need to start the spread from a 2.00 star diff. so with a limited number of difficulties will be impossible to archive a good spread.
mintong89
3,698 posts
Joined July 2011
mintong89

Yuii- wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/801333

Asphyxia is crying right now.
it's ok since this rule only applies at new map
Sonnyc
7,762 posts
Joined June 2008
Sonnyc

Sieg wrote:

@ztrot can you please give a reasoning to us for
Every mapset is limited to one of each difficulty level per game mode.
there should be one, right?
"but the change reflects something we see as urgent and something that needed to happen"

as a community member, that "something" is really curious

Loctav wrote:

VINXIS wrote:

Edit: was there even discussion witht he community or qats hOLY
We went through that change with these people t/420229
Then why is Mao, the council member, showing a disagreement?


You guys might have expected this bunch of complaints; we are really anticipating for a sufficient explanation, or an awesome compromise.
Moreover I really wish this wasn't just something popped up literally a day before, and got urgently announced.
Natsu
8,088 posts
Joined September 2012
Natsu

Loctav wrote:

VINXIS wrote:

Edit: was there even discussion witht he community or qats hOLY
We went through that change with these people t/420229
why you exclude the rest of the community and the rest of BNs/QAT from the discussion, a big change like this should be discussed more open, mostly because all the community disagree with this.
ac8129464363
1,566 posts
Joined October 2013
ac8129464363
All this does is push rigidity where it's not needed. What if someone wants to show different styles of mapping at the same level of difficulty in their map? It only serves to make mapsets less interesting.
Taeyang
Elite Mapper
1,209 posts
Joined June 2013
Taeyang

Yuii- wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/801333

Asphyxia is crying right now.
lol...
MBomb
MBomb
Rule about not allowing 2 of the same difficulty is literally the stupidest thing I've ever seen. I'm one of those people who always tries his hardest to agree with you guys on everything, but I see literally no fucking logic behind any of that. You're limiting newer players by breaking the bridges between new difficulties, breaking the creativity of mappers, and generally ruining stuff that doesn't need to be restricted.
Akiyama Mizuki
2,710 posts
Joined March 2009
Akiyama Mizuki
I'll be honest I'm still unhappy about that maps before this rule are affected
How many GDs will be deleted, how many people that were preparing approval maps have to spend much more time to fit the rule suddenly... etc,.
well.. happens

I've already stated thing above while the discussion for twice, it's here, I won't voice anymore.
Giralda
1,008 posts
Joined August 2012
Giralda

Yuii- wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/801333

Asphyxia is crying right now.
....
Bara-
11,979 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
I can honestly feel a circlejerk coming up incredibly fast, although it will likely be a protest
Shmiklak
Elite Storyboarder
3,282 posts
Joined January 2015
Shmiklak
Please, no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Okoayu
Nomination Assessment Team
4,999 posts
Joined May 2012
Okoayu

mintong89 wrote:

Yuii- wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/801333

Asphyxia is crying right now.
it's ok since this rule only applies at new map
it applies to this map since it hasn't been bubbled / iconed in any way before
neonat
Beatmap Nominator
3,539 posts
Joined April 2012
neonat
For the council how do you seriously expect them to get the views of all their peers in their respective community? Do you seriously think 1 person can do it, and do you think he/she will really go out and reach out to every single one of them with differing views? That's just being idealistic and it's not going to become reality.
Seijiro
osu! Alumni
3,438 posts
Joined April 2013
Seijiro
we need more icons imo, otherwise this new "rule" is way too restrictive.
You prioritize a linear spread but disapprove "in-between" diffs, wtf
Feb
1,027 posts
Joined June 2014
Feb
Why would you change the amount of difficulties allowed in a set? I really don't get it and you don't really state a reason either.

I like the approval change - I really do.
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
Topic Starter
ztrot

Sieg wrote:

@ztrot can you please give a reasoning to us for
Every mapset is limited to one of each difficulty level per game mode.
there should be one, right?
it is to streamline the mapping process make things more clear as I have stated

The difficulty is not dependent on the star rating. The mapping techniques used within the difficulty and the spread to the surrounding difficulties define the category each difficulty level falls into. Difficulties must be named to reflect that. That being said as long as there is progression why do you need two insanes in the same set?

Easy Normal Hard Insane Expert < and if you can make a proper spread you are rewarded to break away and test your limits as a mapper and make a ultra diff
There should always be progression from easy to expert.
mintong89
3,698 posts
Joined July 2011
mintong89
ok nvm
rippppppppppppppp
Mafumafu
Nomination Assessment Team
3,395 posts
Joined August 2013
Mafumafu
The rule of approval is quite great since a single 8 star approval map is really scary. Support this!

But it's quite weird to restrict the amount of difficulties in one level. I guess the entire rule is made here to make all levels pf player could enjoy the game more. Since the style among mappers varies, it's not bad, or rather, better to have multiple difficulties within one level, because the variety of mapping style caters on the need of all kinds of players (Different players enjoy and are good at different beatmap styles.)
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Hpocks
445 posts
Joined January 2015
Hpocks
You can mourn for the losses here
t/420223/start=30
Xinely
5,014 posts
Joined April 2012
Xinely
i think ENHI only can work for slow/normal bpm only (example below 190) and it will be worse for high bpm (especially above than 200) since if the mapset is forced to be "ENHI" then all of the diffs will be harder than diffs mappers map for them before and it wont be welcome for players who is learning to play high bpm

approval rule seems fine for me so i do agree
wajinshu
1,579 posts
Joined April 2015
wajinshu
omg please no.
Shirona
45 posts
Joined February 2015
Shirona
Asphixya : Remember, no Dokyo.
this rule is not fair :/
Nozhomi
Global Moderator
4,575 posts
Joined May 2013
Nozhomi

ztrot wrote:

Easy Normal Hard Insane Expert < and if you can make a proper spread you are rewarded to break away and test your limits as a mapper and make a ultra diff
There should always be progression from easy to expert.
So why not add more levels between them ? All of this depend of the song, so you could at least adapt spread to the song you map.
Yauxo
1,622 posts
Joined June 2011
Yauxo
Im fine with the approval change, but the other things are basically the worst things to do. I dont care who proposed the rule change or which chosen players thought that this is a good idea. It isnt. Mapping is community driven, hell, the whole game is community driven. Restricting and forcing a change on the current mapping meta doesnt help, but it kills it rather. I think the thread already pointed out most of the flawed stuff, so I dont need to repeat that. Just my 2cents.
Myxo
osu! Alumni
3,103 posts
Joined December 2012
Myxo

Sonnyc wrote:

Then why is Mao, the council member, showing a disagreement?
Most of the members of the council were not online when this was discussed.
Akasha-
Nomination Assessment Team
4,420 posts
Joined April 2013
Akasha-
everythings are now hard to proceed
Okoayu
Nomination Assessment Team
4,999 posts
Joined May 2012
Okoayu

ztrot wrote:

is to streamline the mapping process make things more clear as I have stated

The difficulty is not dependent on the star rating. The mapping techniques used within the difficulty and the spread to the surrounding difficulties define the category each difficulty level falls into. Difficulties must be named to reflect that. That being said as long as there is progression why do you need two insanes in the same set?
Because the skill range in insanes varies greatly and having just one insane in the middle kills people who try to progress from hard to insane and bores people who are at the skill level where they slowly get familiar with how extras work
mintong89
3,698 posts
Joined July 2011
mintong89
That's mean I can make really easy easy and really hard hard?
Cherry Blossom
3,185 posts
Joined October 2011
Cherry Blossom

Desperate-kun wrote:

Most of the members of the council were not online when this was discussed.
Same for me.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav

Desperate-kun wrote:

Sonnyc wrote:

Then why is Mao, the council member, showing a disagreement?
Most of the members of the council were not online when this was discussed.
let me fix that. 10% were not online.
Rohit6
425 posts
Joined August 2013
Rohit6
guys dont worry

this is just a prank

good one hhahhah
Hpocks
445 posts
Joined January 2015
Hpocks

Desperate-kun wrote:

Sonnyc wrote:

Then why is Mao, the council member, showing a disagreement?
Most of the members of the council were not online when this was discussed.

Well was this 'discussion' even scheduled so people can show up, or was it like "Get the online members now". Sounds like bs to me
Yales
827 posts
Joined February 2013
Yales
Don't know what to think about it yet tbh.
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PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
PyaKura
I don't mind the changes apart for the approval criteria. If you do want to stick with having 2 diffs no matter what when you have an Expert or above diff, then I suggest loosening the lower limit (that is, Insane) to Hard or Normal though I'm reluctant with the latter considering I don't think players at that skill level have enough physical and/or mental stamina to keep up with a five minutes long song.

Now here's another thing I wish to adress :

screenie
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folence
14 posts
Joined June 2013
folence
I really think you should listen to the general opinion here, I personally see no merit from pushing this new rule, and it seems that most other people agree on that, at least when it comes to the normal mapsets, people seem more on boat with the approved mapset thing (I strongly disagree with the approval thing personally though, as the whole reason people got something approved in the first place, was because it was a very long song, and a lot more work for each diff).
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Hpocks
445 posts
Joined January 2015
Hpocks
"You have 0 kudosu remaining. You can earn kudosu by helping mod this map! You will gain kudosu if you mod this map."

I dont see anyone gettig kds from modding this. Just saying, there has to be at least 20-30 mods here and no kds at all.
pregnant_man
2,494 posts
Joined August 2012
pregnant_man
not really exciting news honestly
CXu
osu! Alumni
3,560 posts
Joined March 2009
CXu
Oh btw, if I were to want to rank my 25 minutes marathon (not that I think I would anytime soon), I now have to map another difficulty because it's an Extra difficulty? I can understand the approval rule on shorter songs, but you're most likely killing 99% of actual marathons with this.

"The mapping techniques used within the difficulty and the spread to the surrounding difficulties define the category each difficulty level falls into."
So where can I read about these mapping techniques and where on the difficulty scale the fall on, or is this just based on "feel" or whatever floats your boat at the moment? How do I know, if not with icons, if my map is what it is?
MBomb
MBomb

Loctav wrote:

Desperate-kun wrote:

Then why is Mao, the council member, showing a disagreement?

Most of the members of the council were not online when this was discussed.
let me fix that. 10% were not online.
Why was this discussed in enough time that no one came online. This seems like the kind of thing you would discuss for at least a week, and you're telling me you discussed it for a few hours? This is stupid, the whole ranking criteria council thing in general is, but especially the fact you took so little time to discuss this disgusts me.
xLolicore-
636 posts
Joined June 2014
xLolicore-

Rohit6 wrote:

guys dont worry

this is just a prank

good one hhahhah
I sure hope it is one, this is the most messed up post I've seen in ages, I'm fine with the approval rule though :/

Edit: nvm, thought about Marathon maps. Oh god no
Last edited by xLolicore- , edited 1 time in total.
Bara-
11,979 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
That makes it even worse. What type of trash is this?
Silky
767 posts
Joined October 2014
Silky
if your map has any type of icon set - be it bubble pop, disqualification or bubble - it will not need to follow the new restructure.
is star icon okay?
t/314308
Last edited by Silky , edited 1 time in total.
Sieg
3,981 posts
Joined February 2012
Sieg

ztrot wrote:

it is to streamline the mapping process make things more clear as I have stated

The difficulty is not dependent on the star rating. The mapping techniques used within the difficulty and the spread to the surrounding difficulties define the category each difficulty level falls into. Difficulties must be named to reflect that. That being said as long as there is progression why do you need two insanes in the same set?

Easy Normal Hard Insane Expert < and if you can make a proper spread you are rewarded to break away and test your limits as a mapper and make a ultra diff
There should always be progression from easy to expert.
streamline mapping process? great, and who will benefit from this?

1. mappers with 2+ same level diffs in their sets, obviously - nope
2. players - nope, less difficulties to choose from
3. BN's who checks sets - nope, since they are not obligated to check sets with a lot diffs and can spend their time voluntary
4. QATs - nope, considering how system is driven right now
-Atri-
3,049 posts
Joined March 2013
-Atri-




Explain this plz, doesn't it broke the criteria itself too

OT: please no, that's gonna waste almost all mapper's works, some mappers might put GDs because people might hatred this style

Take this map as example

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/281721

The description said: "gds included so that people irritated by my mapping style can still enjoy the map"
Last edited by -Atri- , edited 1 time in total.
Doyak
osu! Alumni
2,623 posts
Joined November 2012
Doyak

ztrot wrote:

There should always be progression from easy to expert.
So my question is, why is the "ENHIXU" the only proper spread? Why not having some smaller progression between those diffs is bad? I really don't understand this.

Also I'm basically against the thing that all maps should have linear difficulty spread. Having two different styled-map with similar difficulty is bad? Why? Players get more maps to choose. If they disliked Insane 1 then they can try Insane 2. Why is this bad? If you don't like Skystar's Expert then wouldn't it be good if there's RLC's Expert? If I tell you my personal experience, I really liked to play like 10 different Insanes if I liked the song. I don't see a reason to have more diffs only if the map's quality is good.

I am totally against with this rule. Do you want this game to be strictly-optimized? Who make the maps? Do they work with this game to earn money? We're doing it FREE to contribute to the game by ranking maps. Why do we need such a restriction that disallows having many difficulties by more mappers? Not even too few diffs.
Irreversible
osu! Alumni
4,317 posts
Joined December 2011
Irreversible
I don't want to know how many things went wrong while discussing this.
shionelove
1,522 posts
Joined September 2010
shionelove
this rule is depend on SD? current mania SD is broken.and if the song has few sounds and i can't make N icon diff even,what to do?spamming LNs to increase SD?
Hpocks
445 posts
Joined January 2015
Hpocks

KuranteMelodii wrote:





Explain this plz, doesn't it broke the criteria itself too
I think the heart is propganda to make people think this is a great idea 10/10 government is always right.
Yuii-
2,501 posts
Joined July 2013
Yuii-

fuyuyu- wrote:

if your map has any type of icon set - be it bubble pop, disqualification or bubble - it will not need to follow the new restructure.
is star icon okay?
t/314308
I would say it's not, star icons don't mean too much. Besides, he specified it's only for bubbles / pops / dqs.
Anxient
1,573 posts
Joined June 2014
Anxient
please tell me that this is just a big prank
Chaoslitz
Elite Mapper / Elite Storyboarder
2,325 posts
Joined November 2013
Chaoslitz

Irreversible wrote:

About the rest, I have one important question: All these diffs will most likely go into a new mapset, which will obviously get ranked too. Where are the benefits, for anyone?
^

Honestly it will only force mappers to delete their GDs and GDers can only create their own mapsets to get it ranked. While different mappers show their own style on mapping, I don't see any reason why such rules is amended to restrict mapsets having same difficulties.

Also about the approval rule, I believe it discourage people from mapping Extra difficulties in Marathon maps (eg: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/324047), spending far more time on mapping an easier difficulties to fulfill the requirement of the new Ranking Criteria, other than cases like this I am fine with map with has ~5mins long
Mikii
393 posts
Joined August 2013
Mikii
This is dumb.
What good comes from restricting the number of difficulties when the general consensus of mapping spreads has always been decided by the situational factors and by the mapper and modders themselves. There has always been a good system towards map spreads and doing this would just make us want tobend the rules in order to fit the spread. uncomfortably bend the spread in order to fit the rules

What good comes from this when 10 councilmen agreed and now you're going to get unhappy responses by the hundreds
Last edited by Mikii , edited 2 times in total.
ouranhshc
2,338 posts
Joined July 2009
ouranhshc
RIP guest diffs
XiMerx
384 posts
Joined March 2014
XiMerx
THE OSU!HOOD - CHANGING THE BEATMAP RANKING CRITERIA PRANK (SOCIAL EXPERIMENT)(GONE WRONG)(GUN PULLED)
Last edited by XiMerx , edited 1 time in total.
Hpocks
445 posts
Joined January 2015
Hpocks

Chaoslitz wrote:

Irreversible wrote:

About the rest, I have one important question: All these diffs will most likely go into a new mapset, which will obviously get ranked too. Where are the benefits, for anyone?
^

Honestly it will only force mappers to delete their GDs and GDers can only create their own mapsets to get it ranked. While different mappers show their own style on mapping, I don't see any reason why such rules is amended to restrict mapsets having same difficulties.

Also about the approval rule, I believe it discourage people from mapping Extra difficulties in Marathon maps (eg: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/324047), spending far more time on mapping an easier difficulties to fulfill the requirement of the new Ranking Criteria, other than cases like this I am fine with map with has ~5mins long

INB4 you can only have one mapset per song. Once a song has a set, you cant map it.
Side
1,127 posts
Joined October 2013
Side
After reading this I don't see what this hopes to accomplish. It seems like the reason this system was put in place was simply to have maps that every player of every level can play and while that sounds good on paper it's not quite as easy. The approval rule I can understand since most people go for extras and I'm sure there are many people who are not quite at that level that would love a version they can play but it's still restricting because even insane are usually only well playable by maybe top 80k which is still just a fraction of the playerbase. If this is still restricting to the majority of the playerbase then there is no reason for this to only help out maybe a few more players when the rest are still neglected it's just a patchjob on a broken dam.

More importantly regarding full spread sets this really does not make sense. For one the star difficulty is by no means a good indication of how hard/easy a map really is and this applies even for the easier difficulties. So depending on an "even" spread is pointless. And then to limit difficulties to just one makes it not only so that people are forced to map many more full spreads of the same song for no real reason and even then still restricting higher difficulties from being mapped. There are a LOT of very talented mappers out there that all have a good way of expressing their style onto a song and this is more visible with insane/extras because it's much less restricting on mapping so when you add this system it means if they ever plan to rank their version of a song they will likely need to make another spread just for that.

This also seems to be against the wishes of the mapping community which is, in this case, the most important right now. They are the ones responsible for voluntarily providing content to the oblivious players who are only here to play. No offense to them they are right to just want to play the game of course but since the mapping community already gets little to no love and now are being forced to go through these changes to appease the players even more is like the equivalent of getting forced into work overtime with no extra pay. Add that to the fact that the current ranking system is already a LOT of work to go through because BNs are already overworked and understaffed as it is, they would likely get further demotivated as more people work to rank the same song over and over and over again simply because there were four good insane and extra versions of a 2 minute song that wanted to get ranked.

As I stated above it's a nice idea on paper but as it is being proposed it does not fit both with the current ranking system or with the wishes of the mapping community in general. I highly urge the rule be put on hold so that there can be more discussion and ideas of how this rule can work for both mappers, players and staff alike before it's set in place, much like a map disqualification.

I did not have time nor patience to proofread this and revise this so maybe some things don't sound like what I was trying to say but I hope maybe it makes sense at least. PLz n0 k1ll m4pp3r sp1r17 kthx
Prophecy
1,794 posts
Joined December 2013
Prophecy
I'm afraid I can't agree with this. Honestly it will only force mappers to delete their GDs and It's hard to maintain the spread issue in taiko mode.
Histoire
482 posts
Joined December 2013
Histoire
There is such a large backlash to this new restructure, lets be real and actually take a moment to reconsider all this.
Spy
Beatmap Nominator
2,557 posts
Joined November 2011
Spy
lmfao
Doormat
2,050 posts
Joined September 2013
Doormat
Just throwing my two cents here-

ztrot wrote:

First of all, we reworded the current spread rule. All difficulties in each game mode have to align in a linear and progressive spread. You can add one Ultra difficulty past an Expert difficulty that does not have to increase linearly in difficulty with the rest of the spread. Keep in mind, that Ultra is a placeholder term, used to reflect a high end difficulty that has not been specified with a name yet. We put that name in place, so you guys know what we are talking about when we want to refer to the high end difficulties of a mapset.
I think a forced linear spread could potentially stifle creativity; while it does encourage balance, it also forces the mapper to have to add/remove elements in a difficulty they otherwise may not want to in order to maintain the spread. It could lead to a lot of dumbed down and/or overcomplicated difficulties when they don't have to be.

ztrot wrote:

Secondly, we limited the amount of difficulties of the same level per game mode. Every mapset is limited to one of each difficulty level per game mode. While this appears very limiting at the beginning, the hybrid set rules stay intact. Don't forget that every keycount in osu!mania is considered as individual game mode, too! If you wish to get your mapsets with multiple difficulties of the same level ranked, we advise you to split it off into a new mapset.
This leads to less diversity in my opinion. Many people have different mapping styles (e.g. person A can map an Insane difficulty that is completely different to how person B maps an Insane), and limiting the amount of same difficulties prevents that diversity.

ztrot wrote:

At last, we altered the requirements for Approval beatmaps. Approval mapsets must have 1 difficulty that is either an Easy, Normal, Hard or Insane. Your mapset must contain an Insane difficulty if an Expert or Ultra difficulty is present. This means that every Approval containing only an Expert or Ultra difficulty must receive a second difficulty. If you do not wish to map more than one difficulty for your Approval sets, we would advise you to keep the single difficulty at Insane level or below.
I'm sort of okay with this one actually-
Last edited by Doormat , edited 1 time in total.
Ninmi
16 posts
Joined November 2013
Ninmi
"Secondly, we limited the amount of difficulties of the same level per game mode. Every mapset is limited to one of each difficulty level per game mode..."

I might just be dumb here, but I wish you guys would've provided a reason why this change is necessary. Is it only aesthetic, or is there an actual benefit to this restriction? Why separate maps in to different downloads when you could just pack a bunch of maps in to a single one?

E: I guess the goal is to increase the number of lower tier maps? Not sure how many defferent kinds of easy maps can you make compared to insane/extras, but I guess it's a worthwile goal anyway...
Last edited by Ninmi , edited 1 time in total.
Ayako
212 posts
Joined December 2014
Ayako
the whole ranking system is fine as it is right now, why the hell do we need a restructure
-Mo-
Nomination Assessment Team
957 posts
Joined December 2012
-Mo-
Sorry, but I really dislike this change.

I personally find that there usually isn't a very good spread between Normal, Hard, and Insane (As a beginner player, the jump from Normal to Hard was a big one, as was Hard to Insane). It is good to have some sort of inbetween difficulty so that the spreading is much more smooth (Advanded and Light Insane difficulties). This change seems to prevent that.

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/347460

I've been working on this for a while, and the fact that I have to remove or completely rework one of the lower and upper difficulties just feels wrong to do in almost every aspect.
Last edited by -Mo- , edited 1 time in total.
Anxient
1,573 posts
Joined June 2014
Anxient
wait if i understand this new rule properly, its basically this

as long as we get difficulty icons on set, like easy, normal, hard, insane, extra, its rankable. the spread doesnt matter? so what is the point of the star rating system?
why not just get rid of it? change into

coz if it is like that, then holy shit rip the ranking criteria. again.
Last edited by Anxient , edited 1 time in total.
Ayako
212 posts
Joined December 2014
Ayako

Anxient wrote:

wait if i understand this new rule properly, its basically this

as long as we get difficulty icons on set, like easy, normal, hard, insane, extra, so what is the point of the star rating system?
why not just get rid of it? change into

coz if it is like that, then holy shit rip the ranking criteria.
i lol-ed
Seijiro
osu! Alumni
3,438 posts
Joined April 2013
Seijiro
I realized 2 things while I was reading the flood of comments coming:
- this new RC rule seems to be pointing the finger to some specific mappers who usually make 6*+ maps
- the staff won't change route no matter what we say (as in most cases)


The real discussion is happening here, not on the Discord #modhelp.
Please re-consider this
Stjpa
899 posts
Joined July 2013
Stjpa

Anxient wrote:

please tell me that this is just a big prank
lit120
3,272 posts
Joined August 2013
lit120
I really have to disagree with the 1st and the 2nd rule tbh. That will force a mapper to delete many GDs and forcing them to map it and rank it at their own mapsets. It's kinda disappoint to see a new rule like this

For the 3rd rule, what about the "marathon" maps which are likely to have more than 10 mintes long and it is a collab map? It's kinda ridiculous here

Edit: about the 3rd rule, making another diff even that it has extra diff on it is just a wasting of time, really
Last edited by lit120 , edited 1 time in total.
Lust
osu! Alumni
2,667 posts
Joined January 2013
Lust
changes like this reminds me why i dont want to be involved with the ranking process anymore
Cheesecake
729 posts
Joined December 2013
Cheesecake
So if I have a set with three insanes, one by me and two GD's, I have to delete those GD's to fit your new dumbass rule? Hahahahaha no
Rido
812 posts
Joined April 2014
Rido
mati gih
Len
Beatmap Nominator
2,831 posts
Joined June 2012
Len
lets make 10star ultra

we
can
fly
Meg
1,622 posts
Joined August 2012
Meg

Len wrote:

lets make 10star ultra

we
can
fly
mulraf
1,067 posts
Joined January 2012
mulraf
Let me rephrase that.

"Hello everyone, ztrot here, destroying your dreams since 2008!"

seriously (i'm sorry for that rather rough introduction btw :x), after working for months on my first map, getting mods, starting to mod other maps recently and shoot my kudosu at my own map, i'll have to completely change it :? i mean i don't even have to change as much as many other mappers. some will have to delete complete difficulties.

"This new rule might seem scary at first but, fear not as we don't want to forget our professional osu! players either!"

yeah, seemingly you don't want to forget the professional osu! players, so let's just forget the mappers instead >:(

Also there's just times when not all difficulties fit to the map. Times when you have something different in mind in terms of the spread.
This will not only significantly increase the work of mappers, moders, BN's and QAT's, it will also erase a part of the mappers freedom. In my opinion we need more freedom instead of more restrictions!
Akasha-
Nomination Assessment Team
4,420 posts
Joined April 2013
Akasha-
Thanks for increasing more maps which need to overmapped to surepassed this rules
Kellan
2 posts
Joined October 2014
Kellan
It's worth mentioning that, under these new rules, NONE of the maps currently on the "Most Played Beatmaps" would have gotten ranked.
Isn't that an obvious sign that this is a terrible decision?
bibilicu
3,578 posts
Joined October 2013
bibilicu
I do not really agree with the new structure of the spread I mean for example if the spread between easy and normal is kinda huge,it needs another normal,a new one normal and the old one being renamed to Advanced or if the spread between hard and Insane is too kinda huge it needs a difficulty named hyper or light insane but yes,the difficulties which causes problems with the spread can be tuned down just my though.
Also I agree with the spread for approval mapsets regarding Insane and Extra because there are some players who cannot pass the Extra difficulties let's say or passing the high bpm streams.Just my opinion.
stal
210 posts
Joined December 2013
stal

Loctav wrote:

Desperate-kun wrote:

Most of the members of the council were not online when this was discussed.
let me fix that. 10% were not online.
nice to know you guys had the time to proofread your thread etc. but can't even schedule a meeting.
Yuii-
2,501 posts
Joined July 2013
Yuii-
Happy Valentine's Day to people on Asia.
Sonnyc
7,762 posts
Joined June 2008
Sonnyc
#BestAprilFoolsDay

oh wait, it's Valentines Day! Enjoy chocolate everyone <3
Ayako
212 posts
Joined December 2014
Ayako
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wldE_4xjVQ
Cellina
1,004 posts
Joined March 2013
Cellina
Come on, this completely ruined and ignored current mapping stuffs.
Rave-up
302 posts
Joined December 2014
Rave-up
this shit is pretty entertaining to watch i can't even lie
Nozhomi
Global Moderator
4,575 posts
Joined May 2013
Nozhomi

Lust wrote:

changes like this reminds me why i dont want to be involved with the ranking process anymore
I guess no more to add here.

95% of posts here disagree with that new rule, so pls stop that and reconsider your work on this one.
Ascendance
Elite Mapper
4,249 posts
Joined July 2013
Ascendance

Spy wrote:

lmfao
Asahina Momoko
1,008 posts
Joined November 2013
Asahina Momoko

ztrot wrote:

Hello everyone, ztrot here with some exciting new news!
the best ironic phrase 2k16
Anxient
1,573 posts
Joined June 2014
Anxient
this is put in the beatmaps section

so please

QATs

DQ this rule map im begging you
Last edited by Anxient , edited 1 time in total.
Ayako
212 posts
Joined December 2014
Ayako
is this when strawpoll comes in handy? or is it too hard to make one
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