Mashley wrote:
Maybe it's unfair to expect people who weren't there to appreciate the way that this game and its community has changed? I dunno.
I guess we don't have access to old maps - they've all gone away no longer able to be played
Mashley wrote:
Maybe it's unfair to expect people who weren't there to appreciate the way that this game and its community has changed? I dunno.
I think the causes are kinda logic - and it's also due to the fact that thousands of songs in osu! sound pretty much the same.pandaBee wrote:
what has given us thousands of copies of the same beatmap - just with different songs attached.
buny wrote:
basically, people started realising that small circles, low ar, consistent 1x ds spacing was a horrible way of mapping
You really think people would like maps that are unplayable just because they're 'innovative and edgy'? Maybe they like the maps because they're fun to play?Maeglwn wrote:
it changed when people realized you can put excessively dumb jumps into maps where they make little to no sense and have people like it because it's innovative and edgy
nowadays now we just have every other map massively overmapped to unplayability and yet people have shifted their standards back so far that its considered, to this day, to be innovative and creative
sad life
yea, I really like it when people map things solely for the top .5% of players in the community to play and the rest to watchB1rd wrote:
You really think people would like maps that are unplayable just because they're 'innovative and edgy'? Maybe they like the maps because they're fun to play?
You sound a bit bitter that people aren't mapping things exclusively for you and should cater to you.Maeglwn wrote:
yea, I really like it when people map things solely for the top .5% of players in the community to play and the rest to watchB1rd wrote:
You really think people would like maps that are unplayable just because they're 'innovative and edgy'? Maybe they like the maps because they're fun to play?
lol, what? I only map, I don't actually play that often anymore, it's just a general analyzation of the maps that have been popular and ranked lately, that's all. I really couldn't care less about things being made for "me"Kheldragar wrote:
You sound a bit bitter that people aren't mapping things exclusively for you and should cater to you.
Realistically, that's why people enforce difficulty spreads. So there's something for everyone to play. Mapping something difficult for high end players, providing it is good, should be encouraged as long as there's adequate stuff for everyone else to play. And you know this.Maeglwn wrote:
yea, I really like it when people map things solely for the top .5% of players in the community to play and the rest to watchB1rd wrote:
You really think people would like maps that are unplayable just because they're 'innovative and edgy'? Maybe they like the maps because they're fun to play?
Then replace "me" with some random player of the general public. Too bad if a map is too difficult for you - fucking get better to play it. There's lots of maps available at lower skill levels, stop whinging that some mappers make some songs you can't play.Maeglwn wrote:
lol, what? I only map, I don't actually play that often anymore, it's just a general analyzation of the maps that have been popular and ranked lately, that's all. I really couldn't care less about things being made for "me"Kheldragar wrote:
You sound a bit bitter that people aren't mapping things exclusively for you and should cater to you.
Well doesn't it makes sense that there are people mapping for the top .5% which are the people who play the game the most? And considering there are thousands of thousands of mapsets of low difficulty maps that cater to infrequent/casual players, and that every expert map has to have low difficulties includes, I'm not sure what your problem is.Maeglwn wrote:
yea, I really like it when people map things solely for the top .5% of players in the community to play and the rest to watch
you completely missed the point of the post, it's not that people are too bad to play it, it's that maps are specificially getting harder and harder to the point where it takes the best players time to even pass them. mashley explained it pretty well earlier, people are mapping for difficulty, easy as thatKheldragar wrote:
Then replace "me" with some random player of the general public. Too bad if a map is too difficult for you - fucking get better to play it. There's lots of maps available at lower skill levels, stop whinging that some mappers make some songs you can't play.
lach you and I both know there's issues with ~ s p r e a d ~ all of the time that just gets overlookedLach wrote:
Realistically, that's why people enforce difficulty spreads. So there's something for everyone to play. Mapping something difficult for high end players, providing it is good, should be encouraged as long as there's adequate stuff for everyone else to play. And you know this.
And I really, really don't see the problem with that; I just don't.Maeglwn wrote:
you completely missed the point of the post, it's not that people are too bad to play it, it's that maps are specificially getting harder and harder to the point where it takes the best players time to even pass them. mashley explained it pretty well earlier, people are mapping for difficulty, easy as thatKheldragar wrote:
Then replace "me" with some random player of the general public. Too bad if a map is too difficult for you - fucking get better to play it. There's lots of maps available at lower skill levels, stop whinging that some mappers make some songs you can't play.
because difficulty is being artificially increased by overmapping things that shouldn't be overmappedKheldragar wrote:
And I really, really don't see the problem with that; I just don't.
EDIT: And I might add that the people who defend maps with 'but it's fun' are the same people who watch the transformers movies or your latest kawaii schoolgirl anime. They don't care about it being well made, they just want it to be flashy. Ok now peace for real.they're fun, i love fun and also transformers
same here. love newer maps a lot. although they don't always make sense in many ways. but fun is what matters most to me in a game.Astrofiziks wrote:
EDIT: And I might add that the people who defend maps with 'but it's fun' are the same people who watch the transformers movies or your latest kawaii schoolgirl anime. They don't care about it being well made, they just want it to be flashy. Ok now peace for real.they're fun, i love fun and also transformers
same here. love newer maps a lot. although they don't always make sense in many ways. but fun is what matters most to me in a game.i'll be honest i've never seen a single transformers movie actually
not so much agreed on the transformers part. the last movie wasn't for me. also not so much of an avengers or any other random marvel movie enthusiast. neither can i watch the latest overhyped kancolle fanservice anime without getting a permaheadache =/
ad hominemification strongMashley wrote:
EDIT: And I might add that the people who defend maps with 'but it's fun' are the same people who watch the transformers movies or your latest kawaii schoolgirl anime. They don't care about it being well made, they just want it to be flashy. Ok now peace for real.
Actually, mapping standards have recently been rising.B1rd wrote:
I don't see how any mapping standards have dropped, and I quite enjoy playing the variety of mapping styles.
lol wutMaeglwn wrote:
yea, I really like it when people map things solely for the top .5% of players in the community to play and the rest to watch
Pretty much all (ranked) maps today are mapped to the beat appropriately, and all of them ARE playable. A jump to you may be "dumb" but that's what the mapper feels and obviously if it caters todays standards then you have an unpopular opinion.Maeglwn wrote:
it changed when people realized you can put excessively dumb jumps into maps where they make little to no sense and have people like it because it's innovative and edgy
nowadays now we just have every other map massively overmapped to unplayability and yet people have shifted their standards back so far that its considered, to this day, to be innovative and creative
sad life
No, there is no way a map 'should' be made. 'Overmapping' isn't necessarily bad, there are plenty of good maps that are overmapped.Friendan wrote:
overmapped = not on beat, too many notes, whatever, like HW's Extra on LUVORATORRRRRY. This is a rhythm game, so I believe maps should stay on beat, not make it as hard as possible to attract all the memers.
There is nothing wrong with the rhythms of luvoratory, in fact, the majority of the them are on beat anyways. Maps are supposed to follow the most prominent sounds in the song, not just what's on beat. In luvoratory's case, some of those just happened to be off beat. It wasn't even mapped out to the max, if you listen closely plenty more notes could have been added, but HW mainly focused on the strongest ones.Friendan wrote:
overmapped = not on beat, too many notes, whatever, like HW's Extra on LUVORATORRRRRY. This is a rhythm game, so I believe maps should stay on beat, not make it as hard as possible to attract all the memers.
B1rd wrote:
No, there is no way a map 'should' be made.
that's not even a popular map, though. And majority of maps are not mapped like that; look at the rest of the difficulties in that mapset tooFriendan wrote:
overmapped = not on beat, too many notes, whatever, like HW's Extra on LUVORATORRRRRY. This is a rhythm game, so I believe maps should stay on beat, not make it as hard as possible to attract all the memers.
Overmapping = Mapping something that doesn't exist in the song.Friendan wrote:
overmapped = not on beat, too many notes, whatever, like HW's Extra on LUVORATORRRRRY. This is a rhythm game, so I believe maps should stay on beat, not make it as hard as possible to attract all the memers.
GoldenWolf wrote:
Overmapping by itself does not mean bad or good, it just means mapping something that doesn't exist in the song. It can be both good/bad depending on if it's a well-thought-out overmap or just a random "let's slap a triple here cuz its boring".
I think enforced difficulty spreads are one of the very few reasons why maps/map sets might end up with lower quality. Mappers are forced to go back multiple times and remap every song section again after already being bored from mapping their one or two favourite difficulties they've finished with loads of effort.buny wrote:
Personally I don't like to map easy difficulties because it bores me, I'd rather map something with large spacing because I think it allows more freedom in mapping by allowing more usage of the space given. That doesn't mean that I'm overmapping, and just because a portion of the community can't play it means it's unplayable either, and it definitely doesn't mean I'm not being "innovative and creative" to higher standards
Oh, I need to save this link! Good read!sukiNathan wrote:
Actually, mapping standards have recently been rising.B1rd wrote:
I don't see how any mapping standards have dropped, and I quite enjoy playing the variety of mapping styles.
Never felt it in his maps. Whenever you want to make sure something's random or not, throw it in the editor and play it at 25% or 50% speedInfevo wrote:
Agree! No Dap for example makes some of my favourite maps and often likes to add triples randomly. Never felt like there was a problem with it when playing.GoldenWolf wrote:
Overmapping by itself does not mean bad or good, it just means mapping something that doesn't exist in the song. It can be both good/bad depending on if it's a well-thought-out overmap or just a random "let's slap a triple here cuz its boring".
is so very trueKheldragar wrote:
Duh, that's why you just outsource all the easy maps to guest diffs.
That's actually one of the first things I look for in a songGoldenWolf wrote:
The real ones just map 5+ minutes songs :^)