Riince wrote:

Tess wrote:

I was so expecting another youtube video after this post

Just stick to DT Rainbow Dash Likes Girls

pretty sure C 1x missed that with relax

was that before or after he 4mod fc'd that tag4 map?

deleted

Hi Jenny,

We need to disqualify your map due to the massive slowdown slider. Try to make the transition more natural as it is very abrupt as it stands (nearly a magnitude of difference between the BPM and velocity change). A word of advice for your future maps: if you plan on making a slider such as this, I highly recommend that you try to stay within the bounds of the editor first, then look to options beyond it after exhausting standard means. You have .75x available that haven't been used that could also help towards transitioning to this long slider.

Some additional notes:

Your stack leniency is set really low, but there weren't any patterns that really require that and your consecutive 1/2 stacks weren't stacking properly. You should raise this if you don't have any advanced patterns that require this setting.

If possible, could you reduce the intensity of the white transition flashes in the storyboard?

I had a few issues seeing the brown combo color against the cloudy background, but others were fine with it.

RIP 600pp score

rip index

Rank was a nice joke, huh..

rest in peace :C

Slider is well readable though. And sliderpoints help with it, but whatever. Jenny, call me for re-bubble/re-qualify when ready.

I'm usually alright with unranking maps but this one was the most unnecessary unrank ever, and you even made up 'additional comments' that wouldn't improve the map in any way just so you could back up the reason that "this map needs improvement"?

geez..

I'd also argue that the slow but steadily (and quite aggressive) "train squeaking", as I call it, does call for exactly this: a very very slowly progressing hold note, one that forces you to focus again.

This part doesn't sound appropriate for either the glorious "fix-it-all spinner" (since it's a slow and grinding note- seriously, who's mind goes "LET'S SPIN AS FAST AS POSSIBLE RIGHT NOW" when hearing this part?) or a breaktime (break, no pressure at all, no focus, take the pen off the tablet or hand off the mouse, what does it matter what happens, it's a faqqing breaktime) - it's a tense moment between the two sections and that's why it draws so much attention and focus.


One shouldn't be obliged to chose between following/complimenting the music and getting their map ranked, specifically when it's about such a trivial issue, which isn't even one for most people playing (and succeeding at) the map in question, but that's my opinion.

Since this got dq'd. I'd like to point out there's an incorrect timing point about 2/3rds of the song during the 13/25% section. One of the heads is 13% making it impossible to hear. Not to mention that whole section is wxtremely quiet and should be raised.

I'll link the specific spot when I get home if you can't find it. I'm at work right now though.

well, i suggested to lenghten it before.. huh.
Jenny said plenty of testplays were OK with the slider so i dont even know what to think now

The map was already DQ'd one time because of that slider. How is it possible that it took the QAT team 6 days to notice that the slider was still the same?

Also, it doesn't really make sense that the reason for DQ is partly based on an untrue statement (there is a slowdown that uses 0.75x contrary to what the post says). The stack leniency setting has no effect on the map itself so it cannot be a reason for disqualification, neither the white flashes in the storyboard. I haven't heard players complaining about that slider, either. This leaves us with nothing warranting a DQ.

I hope that this is an April fools joke because if it isn't, it might be the most unreasonable disqualification in a long time. If you just want to DQ it, please at least try to find a better argument for the reason to do so.

joolomasta wrote:

The map was already DQ'd one time because of that slider. How is it possible that it took the QAT team 6 days to notice that the slider was still the same?

different reasons? first DQ was for too drain being too high on HR (fixed by adjusting HP), second was due to 'abruptness'. the slider being the same has no connection to both DQs.

joolomasta wrote:

Also, it doesn't really make sense that the reason for DQ is partly based on an untrue statement (there is a slowdown that uses 0.75x contrary to what the post says). The stack leniency setting has no effect on the map itself so it cannot be a reason for disqualification, neither the white flashes in the storyboard. I haven't heard players complaining about that slider, either. This leaves us with nothing warranting a DQ.

Garven wrote:

Some additional notes:.

fuel your QAT hate somewhere else. (quite sure garven meant using more of the playfield for the slider, not SV)

handsome wrote:

joolomasta wrote:

The map was already DQ'd one time because of that slider. How is it possible that it took the QAT team 6 days to notice that the slider was still the same?

different reasons? first DQ was for too drain being too high on HR (fixed by adjusting HP), second was due to 'abruptness'. the slider being the same has no connection to both DQs.

Actually the first DQ was because I asked for it since there was repeated interest in making the map passable on HR; the slider didn't play any role in that at all.

@Lanturn: 06:42:555 (5) - if this is the slider you mean, sure I can fix that. won't upload for now though, no changes until this entire thing is cleared up.

handsome wrote:

fuel your QAT hate somewhere else. (quite sure garven meant using more of the playfield for the slider, not SV)

I had an argument to back my opinion. How you simply dismiss it as "QAT hate" and ignore the argument itself is not how civilised people discuss. You may disagree with me and that's fine but please at least provide a reason you do so instead of trying to play me down. If those points were just additional notes, they should not cause a DQ.

I'm not hating the QATs but i'm questioning the decision made here.

If the DQ is due to the potential readability issues of the .1x SV, then I think the best solution is to stack 06:02:855 (4,5,1) - . This provides nearly half a second of stationary cursor, which is more than enough for the player to make any adjustments to an SV drop.

If the issue is because the SV is below editor boundaries, then you should probably just cut the slider at like 06:09:337 or so. I know that's not what you want to happen, but imo a 15 second long slider is pretty silly. Cutting it at around where the guitar echo dies out gives close to the feeling of intensity you're looking for while not being obnoxiously long and taking up a ton of the screen after the mandatory change to .5x SV.

Happy April fool's...right?

RIGHT?

That slider was ridiculous anyway. You shouldn't need to slider break on a sightread because the mapper made an out of place sudden super slowed down slider after a 2000+ combo. WWW minus 1 because of that unnecessary change in velocity. I'm sure many more messed up by that out of the blue slider.

Ash Marley wrote:

That slider was ridiculous anyway. You shouldn't need to slider break on a sightread because the mapper made an out of place sudden super slowed down slider after a 2000+ combo. WWW minus 1 because of that unnecessary change in velocity. I'm sure many more messed up by that out of the blue slider.

What do you suggest then? Criticizing and not giving any suggestion that would work better considering the comment from the mapper won't help much.

Ash Marley wrote:

That slider was ridiculous anyway. You shouldn't need to slider break on a sightread because the mapper made an out of place sudden super slowed down slider after a 2000+ combo. WWW minus 1 because of that unnecessary change in velocity. I'm sure many more messed up by that out of the blue slider.

Hmmmm? Jenny explained her reasoning behind that slider and it makes perfect sense to me.
Go read up on the discussion first dude.

Lax wrote:

Ash Marley wrote:

That slider was ridiculous anyway. You shouldn't need to slider break on a sightread because the mapper made an out of place sudden super slowed down slider after a 2000+ combo. WWW minus 1 because of that unnecessary change in velocity. I'm sure many more messed up by that out of the blue slider.

Hmmmm? Jenny explained her reasoning behind that slider and it makes perfect sense to me.
Go read up on the discussion first dude.

It doesn't change that it's too unexpected and inconsistent. The "rhythm" is killed at that point.

Or people could stop aiming for "perfection" and aim for maps that are fun to play. To me, that's the best quality, and it doesn't require a team to assure me about it.

Good evening everyone,

We've cleaned non constructive posts from this topic.
Please, this topic sould be useful for the mapper. At least, give a constructed opinion about the beatmap and not about a player's performance.

I know it's April 1st but you guys should avoid doing that again or we'll need to take actions against some users / locking this topic in the worst case.

Keep in mind that getting a map disqualified isn't something bad, we all want to see ranked/approved beatmaps which will be enjoyed by as many users as possible.

Thank you!

Fun doesn't always means good, please stay on topic and provide map related suggestions that will be helpful for mapper to improve his/her map

There's a skinnable thing called "sliderscorepoint" if you can see a slow slider coming with many of these points, you should change it and learn not only to read circles and sliders but also those tiny circles inside

[ Manoa ] wrote:

There's a skinnable thing called "sliderscorepoint" if you can see a slow slider coming with many of these points, you should change it and learn not only to read circles and sliders but also those tiny circles inside

i'm not really on anyone's side but this isn't a very good way to determine SV at all. if you checked ingame the ticks appear slowly after the slider appears, it isn't too reliable as a reading tool. plus the first few points are on the sliderhead itself, not much you can see about that.

Jenny wrote:

@Lanturn: 06:42:555 (5) - if this is the slider you mean, sure I can fix that. won't upload for now though, no changes until this entire thing is cleared up.

That's the one. Good luck getting this requalified. Beautiful map.

Just throwing this out there but since your intention was to force players to focus on the extended 0.1x slider, why not use a fancier slider than a simple curve with 3 control points? With such a straight-forward slider, once you've landed it, that's basically it for the slider experience because its so linear. Varying the slider path would also force players to focus on playing out the slider, not just landing it.

Either ways though, I felt the slow-down in both spacing and SV was adequate leading up to the slider so best of luck re-ranking this!

RIP 600 pp though lol~

[ S a k u r a ] wrote:

Fun doesn't always means good, please stay on topic and provide map related suggestions that will be helpful for mapper to improve his/her map

And good doesn't always mean fun. Would you rather have a map that good well but plays shit, or a map that doesn't look good but plays awesomely?

Good is a very subjective term anyways.



Also @handsome sliderpoints are one of the main elements to determine SV changes lol.



I don't know why everyone is complaining suddenly, the slider fits way better than a spinner or a break, since there's an actual, intense-ish sound to be covered.

Also, #modhelp pointed something out:







From what I understand, this pretty much seals the deal for this case since well.. it's in the RC, legitly.

03:08:321 (1) - has 1/8 note after and 1/8 ghost note after
04:26:188 (4) - https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/2961923 offscreen in standard resolution, optional to move or not

this isn't really related to the slider being good/bad, but the 114bpm timing point at 06:03:021 might be wrong

if you were to remove the 114bpm point and add a 150bpm point at 06:04:355, you could hear that the guitar is 1/2 spam and there's bass on every measure's downbeat. the long slider's initial snapping may be ambiguous with this though, so i dunno what you'd do there. thought it would be worth mentioning at least

Jenny wrote:

Also, #modhelp pointed something out:...

The discussions that came from this map is the reason that ended up getting reviewed and posted, haha.

Anyway, I have talked with Jenny a little bit on IRC and we will do a full discussion when we can. To reiterate: the DQ issue is the transition to the long slow slider - everything else is tertiary.

A good solution was posted earlier by UndeadCapulet about stacking, or you can look into using a gradual slowdown instead of sticking to .75x during the part before the slider so that you don't have such a drastic speed change.

stepmania detected

[ S a k u r a ] wrote:

Fun doesn't always means good

can you please elaborate on this
I play mania exclusively but last time I checked, osu! and all of the modes allowed are part of a game: the main goal of a game is to have fun
by saying "fun doesn't always mean good," you are implying that "fun could possibly mean bad"

[ S a k u r a ] wrote:

Fun doesn't always means good, please stay on topic and provide map related suggestions that will be helpful for mapper to improve his/her map

and good is subjetive, anyways I really don't see any problem with that slider it fit really well what jenny is trying to do, maybe change the slider shape to a one that let the player know about it (just as suggestion).

Have people forgotten how to read sv? I've gotten jipped by other maps with "random" slow sliders (cough wahrheit cough) enough times to learn when to expect them and how to deal with them. It's just another aspect of reading the map.

deathmarc4 wrote:

Have people forgotten how to read sv? I've gotten jipped by other maps with "random" slow sliders (cough wahrheit cough) enough times to learn when to expect them and how to deal with them. It's just another aspect of reading the map.

Exactly this.

People forget that reading is comprised of completely separate components. Humans are exceptional at recognizing patterns and we rely on audio and visual cues to deduce these patterns. I played through this map with no clue on where the slider would be, how fast the SV was set at or even what shape the slider was. When it came up I didn't break on it.

Why is this?

When I came to the aforementioned slider I had already subconsciously inferred that this was a slow section. I could understand the QATs reasoning if the slider was immediately after the fast streaming portion earlier in the song, but it's not. Instead it comes after long slow sliders and notes spaced so far apart, it's the equivalent of a 3-4 star song.
Look at this!

Not to mention that you have to be moving very quickly to break on the slider. Faster even than the previous sliders. So even if you assumed that the SV on this slider was equivalent to the SV on the previous sliders, you won't break. If you do, then you probably shouldn't be playing this song with your poor reading skills. It's obvious instantly that the slider is incredibly slow and the 'break circumference' is big enough so you have just enough time to realize this.


Check this picture out. Look how far my cursor is away from the center of the slider circle and I still haven't ruined my combo. If you broke on this slider, you're either not paying enough attention or your reading is poor. So poor that you probably shouldn't be playing this song. I'm absolutely certain that anyone who can pass the extreme streams in this song can has a reaction time of less than a second.

Beatmapping has evolved in the past few years significantly and will certainly continue too, but disqualifications like this only hinder this evolution to a point that mapping now seems so uniform and invariable that it's almost impossible to tell the difference between mappers. Especially for a player like me who's not into the mapping community. I strongly disagree with this disqualification as it ruins the character of the map and corrupts the mappers style. With a DQ like this, I'm sure that Jenny won't try anything similar to this in the future which is sad. It's a real shame that mappers these days are terrified to try anything new because of the looming force with trigger fingers that we call QATs. I dream of a day when I don't open up /r/osugame to "X has been disqualified!". With 11 ranked beatmaps, I'm sure Jenny knows what she is doing.

Ash Marley wrote:

Neither is your 1 example of your personal experience then.

How about 95% of the testplays I requested and watched, then? :p

Also, every player has bad days or can have misguided assumptions about map and song every once in a while, don't make it seam like WWW is an exception from that because frankly, he isn't. His error rate is really low but it definitely is still there, as we can see from examples like these.

Plus, mind you, how frequent do these scenarios appear? Not very often tbh, considering most maps (and modplays) these days are mostly aimed at high speed rather than go in detail to the song's happenings. This is a non-osu!stereotypical song, so it is also to be played and viewed as such; if you slip back to jumpspam TV Size habits midway through even though the map should have told you better than doing that at this point, you sadly just failed at keeping your composure, which is a key part of playing lengthy maps.

I'm soooo sad right now.