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Kytoxid

0_o wrote:

Would this have the potential to get me in trouble with the university since I am using ResNet? If we get caught using P2P software we could get disconnected and/or fined..
This is also my main issue. We're not supposed to run P2P.
Topic Starter
peppy
I am still playing with the idea of allowing disabling of the system, but limiting download speed to a fixed amount as a result (likely around 32kb/s). Of course, depending on available bandwidth from those willing to share, this may not be an issue at all.
Teara
Living in South Africa, and not being able to afford the expensive non capped internet~ this will have a devastating affect, since I normally purchase a 2gb bundle each month and sometimes, if I used it to fast, a extra 1gb ( just for surfing ).

If osu starts using my bandwidth, to share beatmaps, I will be capped much faster each month and probably will be forced to stop playing all together, since my current internet options are not cheap.

We are however planning on moving in the next few months to Pretoria, one of the bigger cities that has ASDL available everywhere, with ADSL I can easily get a 5gb bundle each month ( for the same money I'm spending on 3G wireless atm ) , where top-up doesn't cost a fortune either, then this might not be such a big problem, but if we end up not moving ( since this is in the planning stages ) osu will become a expensive hobby.

In simple terms, we pay for how much we can download, not our internet speed, any South African can confirm this. :<

So yes, I have a big problem with this.

did some math

R389 = $52.64
is what I pay for my 2 GB bundle each month, without top up.

Edit

I'd really like to see a disabling function, even if its only for people who have a valid reason, I cant dream of not being able to play osu :<
qlum
luckily there is no such thing as monthly bandwidth capping in Holland but my upload speed is still capped at 680Kbps even though I have a connection of 20Mbit connection
Jarby
Upload's directly connected to download for me. I'm not in a situation where I would be able to share bandwidth without some pretty nasty consequences, so I'm against the mandatory enforcing of this. Making it optional would seem to be the logical thing to do as I'm sure that many users aren't in a situation similar to my own and would be happy to contribute.
Loginer
I'd love to seed maps constantly. And to encourage users to seed, I suggest adding an upload ranking to the site and maybe some sort of reward system, like 1 kudosu/50 GB of seeding.
NoHitter
Only when it's open.
Skyripper
I would normally be fine with something like this in a home environment, but I really can't do this at school (where I will live for at least the next 6 months). I know plenty of people who have been banned from use of the network for similar bandwidth expenditure (IT guys track bandwidth upload/download use). Since I am a computing based major, this wouldn't be too great for me -_-.

This is an especially sensitive issue because we are sharing music that we do not own in most cases.
Nachy
I'm pretty fine sharing it, even when osu! isn't open.
Ephemeral
As long as upload caps can be specified by the user, I have absolutely no problem sharing bandwidth.

My upload rate is abominable (a by-product of Telstra internet) and similar to other concerns expressed in this thread already, my uploads do count towards my usage cap and thus need to be carefully monitored.
eMkay
I definitely think this is a good idea because i'm seeding torrents as well so no problem with seeding when i'm not playing ;) I Have 16 MBit so i could seed at 1MBit ( NOT MBYTE) max ;) But then i would also add sort of a reward system just what Lohiner said ;)
Skyripper

Ephemeral wrote:

As long as upload caps can be specified by the user, I have absolutely no problem sharing bandwidth.
RemmyX25
While I'm at home, i'd love to seed, but I'd probably have to set up a box just for this purpose while im away at college. I wouldn't be able to seed while at the college
Gabi
big support for this. just a question.


Would this allow us to share maps that aren't uploaded to osu?
Breeze
I'm happy to share, I wonder whether if would effect connect to bancho or whether it would made game lag.
Same to skyripper, school net is terrible...and most times I'm in school
So just make a option that user could choose whether share and how to share? Emm...
I was always want to support osu! But I can't transact a credit card without a stable work, I'm still a student orz
Topic Starter
peppy
It helps if you read the opening post, where all the questions you asked are already answered.
nsane
Will subscribers still be able to d/l directly or is that not going to be an option at all? Near future; any guesses as to when you'll implement this?

Also:

Peppy wrote:

Most people have limits placed on how much they can download, but not upload. There are of course some exceptions to this rule, but that is the general way things work.
Good old Comcast! Their limit is on both up and down.
Topic Starter
peppy
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Aoitenshi
SUPERB. HYPERLY. SUPPORT. THIS. LIKE. OSU'S. LOYAL. FOLLOWER. I. DON'T. CARE. IF. ANYONE. DOESN'T. AGREE. WITH . THIS. I. WANT. TO. SUPPORT. OSU!

Okay. okay, enough with that thing, i choose option 1. I don't want osu to be dying.
anonymous_old

Aoitenshi wrote:

SUPERB. HYPERLY. SUPPORT. THIS. LIKE. OSU'S. LOYAL. FOLLOWER. I. DON'T. CARE. IF. ANYONE. DOESN'T. AGREE. WITH . THIS. I. WANT. TO. SUPPORT. OSU!

Okay. okay, enough with that thing, i choose option 1. I don't want osu to be dying.
Who said it's dying?
Ekaru
Currently, no. Maybe when we change ISPs soon, but no one should be stuck trying to download at 10 kb/s (I LOVE MY UPLOAD SPEED) from this bad connection... and then have it randomly cut off mid-download. So unstable.

Mainly our internet sucks majorly right now and would frustrate any user trying to download off of me while also killing my brother in the games that he plays when he's home, and making my other brother wonder why the internet is so damn slow.

...So yeah. Maybe if/when we get a stable connection that would/could/will/maybe change.
Soaprman
Regardless of whether it's only when osu! is open or a separate application, as long as it can be turned off when needed for those of us with shitty bandwidth, I don't see how this could be anything but good.

I voted option 2.
xlcwzx
I'd like to share my bandwidth all the time when I'm connected to the internet, even when the osu! is off. So I hope the P2P program can be divided from osu! so that it can be opened all the time and won't cost the CPU too much.
Each time we start osu! the program will be started, other time we can also start and close it manually. Besides I hope the program can provide detials about "how much you've uploaded, how much you've downloaded", just like a PT site(maybe we can even use the upload amount to limit the user's download, also like a PT site).
ignorethis
I'm happy to share my bandwidth but it seems I can't donate too much compared to other people. My internet connection does suck. D:
wmfchris
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Andrea
2nd option.

I wanna help if possible ^_^
SteRRuM
2nd
Kytoxid
Kinda curious on how upload will work; will the server still act as a P2P "seeder"?
Card N'FoRcE
Actually, i can't decide between option 1 and 2.

There's something i don't uderstand about option 2: we can have an external service running to keep sharing, but has the user any power about "when" it's active?
I mean, i'm fine with both an internal (that would be opt 1, closing when osu is closed) or an external (opt 2, active even if osu is not running) solution, but i really think we should also get some way to monitor and turn this off sometimes.

As many people already stated, lots of users also run osu from places like university (i do that too, sometimes) and in those places any kind of P2P software is not allowed.

The main problem about this argument is that if too many people turn sharing off, we get lots of leechers/peers but no seeds.

So, i'd like to hear some more details before giving an answer >.<
anonymous_old

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

There's something i don't uderstand about option 2: we can have an external service running to keep sharing, but has the user any power about "when" it's active?
I mean, i'm fine with both an internal (that would be opt 1, closing when osu is closed) or an external (opt 2, active even if osu is not running) solution, but i really think we should also get some way to monitor and turn this off sometimes.
I'd imagine it'd be like a torrent client (e.g. uTorrent), with a systray icon or some web interface.

As many people already stated, lots of users also run osu from places like university (i do that too, sometimes) and in those places any kind of P2P software is not allowed.

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

The main problem about this argument is that if too many people turn sharing off, we get lots of leechers/peers but no seeds.
The current server would be the "master" seed, no?
CheeseWarlock
Loginer's on to something with the kudosu idea: a minor reward for users who seed. I support this either way, though.
anonymous_old
I like a P2P system, but less-recognized maps will be slower.
Repflez
For me it's ok to share my bandwidth (that's because my pc is on all day) but the problem is that most people runs osu in universities as some guys here stated.
cyanberryio
I wouldn't mind too much. I get every ranked map possible, so I'd be glad to share/seed sometimes. :)
Real1
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
awp

Real1 wrote:

Ohh ohh ohh, 1 kudosu per 100mb uploaded!!! Add that!! With a max of, say 10 kudosu per day.
kinda OP for anyone planning to seed to the limit daily. 70 free kd a week?

I don't know if kd is a suitable award, since it's often regarded as a measurement tool to contributions to modding. It'd be in the same vein as buying kudosu!.

Really, I think leaderboards would be enough for those of us who are good-hearted, but because that isn't enough, maybe every 3x GB of (upload - download) nets you a month's subscription where x is perceived value of prescription cost in terms of bandwidth usage (3 is just an example, use whatever constant or additional variable you so desire)

personally I'd be perfectly happy with a leaderboard for seeding ratio; I'd actually have a chance to top a chart ={
Real1

awp wrote:

personally I'd be perfectly happy with a leaderboard for seeding ratio; I'd actually have a chance to top a chart ={

Yeah, that's good too. <3
anonymous_old
Announcements in #osu, maybe?

awp has uploaded 10GB in maps! Thanks for your support!
awp
Also, Total Upload achievements, to encourage all the trophy hunters
Kytoxid

awp wrote:

personally I'd be perfectly happy with a leaderboard for seeding ratio; I'd actually have a chance to top a chart ={
Post count? :P
Pokebis
Use more mediafire.
awp

Pokebis wrote:

Use more mediafire.
if people did, there wouldn't be a problem

unless they are forced to do the intelligent thing, they will do the stupid thing
Derekku
I disagree with the kd reward as well, but some kind of "reward" would probably fare well. :P
ttker
I would be happy to share even while not playing osu!
Wojjan
Various countries have an internet cap. If I seed/share/whatefver all my maps then I won't be able to ever see a youtube until a gazillion years in the future. I really don't want this trouble. It's hard enough for me to get by with WGCS right now. If this gets implemented, I want a function to turn it off.
Pokebis
Just want to throw this out. If a user is distributing an audio file that may be copyrighted they could be sued. I'm pretty sure a large majority of the songs hosted here aren't licensed to be distributed here in the first place. This puts normal users on the spot for distributing copyrighted works. If one user gets heavy traffic their ISP could notice and put penalties on them and copyright owners could sue the user for distributing their works. I feel it would be best not to put the user in that much legal danger.
Skyripper

Pokebis wrote:

Just want to throw this out. If a user is distributing an audio file that may be copyrighted they could be sued. I'm pretty sure a large majority of the songs hosted here aren't licensed to be distributed here in the first place. This puts normal users on the spot for distributing copyrighted works. If one user gets heavy traffic their ISP could notice and put penalties on them and copyright owners could sue the user for distributing their works. I feel it would be best not to put the user in that much legal danger.
yeah I would disable this feature if possible (if implemented)
Lybydose

Pokebis wrote:

Just want to throw this out. If a user is distributing an audio file that may be copyrighted they could be sued. I'm pretty sure a large majority of the songs hosted here aren't licensed to be distributed here in the first place. This puts normal users on the spot for distributing copyrighted works. If one user gets heavy traffic their ISP could notice and put penalties on them and copyright owners could sue the user for distributing their works. I feel it would be best not to put the user in that much legal danger.
On that note, it would also be nice to control which songs I want to distribute and which ones I don't. Some of the songs on here carry a much higher chance of legal penalties than others.
bagnz0r

peppy wrote:

It is a fact that I can't keep providing direct downloads for beatmaps to the level I currently am. Donations/subscriptions do not cover the costs of bandwidth. For example, a one month subscription ($4) will provide around 20gb of traffic, which depending on how outgoing the user that subscribed is, may only cover 3-4 users' traffic.

In the near future there will be the introduction of a peer to peer distribution system. It will mean some changes to how beatmaps are downloaded and loaded into osu!. For the purpose of this discussion, let us assume the system works perfectly and speed of downloads will not be affected.

I want to find out how people feel about sharing their bandwidth (outgoing) and how willing they are to help ensure availability of maps. Bandwidth usage will be optimised to have no effect on gameplay, and have a setting for usage when minimised/idle.
I told you that once peppy, why won't you use my server to distribute traffic? It's based in Poland. In fact, i can't provide much...
10GB for holding maps, 150GB mo. traffic and 6Mbps per-user DL cap... But it's always something. Once I'll get enough money to upgrade my server, you could even have 80GB for maps and 600GB mo. traffic.

Besides, speaking of P2P. You mean torrent? Because, that's the only solution for me. If so, that'd be cool. :P
Randy96
Considering all the issues at hand (bandwidth limits, college/uni stuff, legal implications), you could always resort to *gulp* advertisements.
Pokebis

Randy96 wrote:

Considering all the issues at hand (bandwidth limits, college/uni stuff, legal implications), you could always resort to *gulp* advertisements.
I thought ads were a good idea from the beginning. I don't understand why peppy doesn't want them. You've got the kind of community that would click them. And those crazy otaku stores love to advertise in places like this. The computer literate people that don't want to see them won't. What's the issue?
RemmyX25

Pokebis wrote:

Randy96 wrote:

Considering all the issues at hand (bandwidth limits, college/uni stuff, legal implications), you could always resort to *gulp* advertisements.
I thought ads were a good idea from the beginning. I don't understand why peppy doesn't want them. You've got the kind of community that would click them. And those crazy otaku stores love to advertise in places like this. The computer literate people that don't want to see them won't. What's the issue?
There actually are ads. You just cant see them while logged in.
Randy96
Really? Where? I logged off for a bit, but couldn't find them.
(Yeah, I disabled Adblock.)
RemmyX25
First post of every thread.
awp

BagnoGamer wrote:

Once I'll get enough money to upgrade my server, you could even have 80GB for maps and 600GB mo. traffic.
Thing is, I've seen osu! chew through this much bandwidth in a couple days. That was in 2008. Now, it might be possible to eat 600GB bandwidth in an afternoon.
Randy96
I see, but that probably doesn't make too much revenue.
deadbeat
I'd do it in a heartbeat if i could but sadly i can't yet. the speed here can be dam slow and my dad normally needs it for work...if it gets any slower it will become too impossible for him too work..once i get my own place i'll try help out thou :)
Loginer

Pokebis wrote:

Randy96 wrote:

Considering all the issues at hand (bandwidth limits, college/uni stuff, legal implications), you could always resort to *gulp* advertisements.
I thought ads were a good idea from the beginning. I don't understand why peppy doesn't want them. You've got the kind of community that would click them. And those crazy otaku stores love to advertise in places like this. The computer literate people that don't want to see them won't. What's the issue?
I think it's more of a principle thing, since ads can make a webpage look awful, and many of them are animated, which usually annoys the hell out of users. Besides, more ads would only pay for a fraction of the bandwidth used.
Randy96
@Loginer: I suppose it's better than nothing at the least.
Intermezzo
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Skyripper
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Kytoxid

Skyripper wrote:

Well on my campus specifically, they monitor bandwidth usage in general. They tag high upload and download bandwidth activity and monitor those accounts for a few week period. After that they start a more forensic investigation.

I'm admittedly paranoid, and always keep my bandwidth usage to a minimum.
My Internet just gets cut off at 8 GB combined upload/download every week, and a warning gets posted on my door. (although they do also do some scanning for P2P stuff and whatnots)
anonymous_old
P2P is a fantastic idea!undoubtedly, I'll support it!
Jeffro
Maybe I can give another suggestion: How about giving users the option of users uploading most of the beatmaps to their own server and be able to add it to the download as a mirror. So people could actually choose where to download those maps.
Randy96

Jeffro wrote:

Maybe I can give another suggestion: How about giving users the option of users uploading most of the beatmaps to their own server and be able to add it to the download as a mirror. So people could actually choose where to download those maps.
The thing with this is, some maps might have as many as 20 mirrors, while others might not have any.
The popularity of maps comes into factor if this is implemented.
Jeffro

Randy96 wrote:

Jeffro wrote:

Maybe I can give another suggestion: How about giving users the option of users uploading most of the beatmaps to their own server and be able to add it to the download as a mirror. So people could actually choose where to download those maps.
The thing with this is, some maps might have as many as 20 mirrors, while others might not have any.
The popularity of maps comes into factor if this is implemented.
Still this would be a good option for a whole load of maps or maybe someone could just give peppy full access so he could mirror all maps :)
Randy96
I suppose.
anonymous_old
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Randy96
Perhaps there could be different buttons for different mirrors?

Like [Download] [Download from Mirrors]
[Download] will just be what we have now, and if [Download from Mirrors] is selected, a list will be brought up and the user could choose the preferred mirror.
anonymous_old

Randy96 wrote:

Perhaps there could be different buttons for different mirrors?

Like [Download] [Download from Mirrors]
[Download] will just be what we have now, and if [Download from Mirrors] is selected, a list will be brought up and the user could choose the preferred mirror.
Only power users would use this, I'd imagine, and it'd confuse normal users. The number of power users is too small for a gain, IMO.
Jeffro

strager wrote:

Randy96 wrote:

Perhaps there could be different buttons for different mirrors?

Like [Download] [Download from Mirrors]
[Download] will just be what we have now, and if [Download from Mirrors] is selected, a list will be brought up and the user could choose the preferred mirror.
Only power users would use this, I'd imagine, and it'd confuse normal users. The number of power users is too small for a gain, IMO.
Set mirror as default download and add a report this link is broken and if that happens let people download it from the official server.
rust45
I just got into the P2P business, and I think this would be a great idea. I voted for option 1 cause I wasn't quite sure how it worked but now I want to vote for option 2.
alcoatjez
Option 2 here, I will share as much as I can.
Rankings would be nice, it will probably motivate me to leave my PC on more often.
Atmey
I would like to share my bandwidth, but my damn ISP limits uploading to 1/8 of downloading. As long as I can control the upload speed I wouldn't mind. which will be around 10kbs.
Topic Starter
peppy
Well it is good to see most of the response is positive hear.

From what I can see, not many are against the concept, but there definitely needs to be:
*A user-set maximum speed limit.
*The option to disable altogether (with the possibility of a slight speed limitation in heavy load situations).
*A statistic to show how much you are uploading, and rankings.

Touching on the mirror suggestion: I already have a system setup to manage mirrors, which involves two-way communication with the main server to ensure downloads are secure and throttled, as well as being automatically distributed. I previously made a call asking people who are willing to mirror maps, but the response was very small so find the p2p option a much more stable and future-proof path to take.

That said, considering I am almost exceeding my current bandwidth allowance (and can't afford to increase it further for the time being) I am happy to have offers for mirroring - just make sure you can spare at least 500gb of traffic and are hosting your mirror on non-shared hosting (unless you are sharing privately with friends). This means no godaddy/dreamhost/whatnot.
Skyripper

peppy wrote:

*A user-set maximum speed limit.
*The option to disable altogether (with the possibility of a slight speed limitation in heavy load situations).
I change my answer to supporting this idea fully in this case.
Jeffro

peppy wrote:

Well it is good to see most of the response is positive hear.

From what I can see, not many are against the concept, but there definitely needs to be:
*A user-set maximum speed limit.
*The option to disable altogether (with the possibility of a slight speed limitation in heavy load situations).
*A statistic to show how much you are uploading, and rankings.

Touching on the mirror suggestion: I already have a system setup to manage mirrors, which involves two-way communication with the main server to ensure downloads are secure and throttled, as well as being automatically distributed. I previously made a call asking people who are willing to mirror maps, but the response was very small so find the p2p option a much more stable and future-proof path to take.

That said, considering I am almost exceeding my current bandwidth allowance (and can't afford to increase it further for the time being) I am happy to have offers for mirroring - just make sure you can spare at least 500gb of traffic and are hosting your mirror on non-shared hosting (unless you are sharing privately with friends). This means no godaddy/dreamhost/whatnot.
Too bad I can't offer you one at the moment. Btw, what do you currently use for hosting the beatmaps? I'm curious to the stats. Also to the people with seedboxes here just install apache and help peppy out there :D
Topic Starter
peppy
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Jeffro

peppy wrote:

Tipping over 14tb/month at the moment...
Wow thats alot. We really should get a server which can run from a bandwidthless environment.
awp
Yeah I don't think I can limit my distribution to a fixed value, so if I mirror, same old song and dance there. Over the limit, friends angry, server down
yaya
if i can help others , i'll do it .
xlcwzx
We know that quite a number of people just delete the skins and videos in a map, so that they won't be disturbed and can get better scores. Such kind of people are mostly those good at this game, at the same time those who have more maps, so I think they will be the main point in this P2P system.
But as I've pointed out, if they've cut most of the skins and videos, there's only the .osu file remained to be uploaded.
So I suppose it's time that something should be done to encourage them to keep the skins and videos, maybe a mod called "no skin", just like the "no video".
----------------
Please forgive my poor English.
Jeffro

xlcwzx wrote:

We know that quite a number of people just delete the skins and videos in a map, so that they won't be disturbed and can get better scores. Such kind of people are mostly those good at this game, at the same time those who have more maps, so I think they will be the main point in this P2P system.
But as I've pointed out, if they've cut most of the skins and videos, there's only the .osu file remained to be uploaded.
So I suppose it's time that something should be done to encourage them to keep the skins and videos, maybe a mod called "no skin", just like the "no video".
----------------
Please forgive my poor English.
Good Idea, a no skin option would certainly help. Or either just make it so ppl can't get a score on incomplete maps.
Intermezzo

xlcwzx wrote:

We know that quite a number of people just delete the skins and videos in a map, so that they won't be disturbed and can get better scores. Such kind of people are mostly those good at this game, at the same time those who have more maps, so I think they will be the main point in this P2P system.
But as I've pointed out, if they've cut most of the skins and videos, there's only the .osu file remained to be uploaded.
So I suppose it's time that something should be done to encourage them to keep the skins and videos, maybe a mod called "no skin", just like the "no video".
That won't be a problem: p2p will be released concurrently with osz2 (which doesn't allow the deletion of skins / custom hitsounds). There also won't be any no-skin version, however there will still be a no-video version available to download for low-bandwidth users.
Jeffro

Intermezzo wrote:

xlcwzx wrote:

We know that quite a number of people just delete the skins and videos in a map, so that they won't be disturbed and can get better scores. Such kind of people are mostly those good at this game, at the same time those who have more maps, so I think they will be the main point in this P2P system.
But as I've pointed out, if they've cut most of the skins and videos, there's only the .osu file remained to be uploaded.
So I suppose it's time that something should be done to encourage them to keep the skins and videos, maybe a mod called "no skin", just like the "no video".
That won't be a problem: p2p will be released concurrently with osz2 (which doesn't allow the deletion of skins / custom hitsounds). There also won't be any no-skin version, however there will still be a no-video version available to download for low-bandwidth users.
Nice, this would be good :D
tudanmeng
Maybe BT is a good way to solve this problem?
anonymous_old

tudanmeng wrote:

Maybe BT is a good way to solve this problem?
............................
nardii
strager, why don't you stop with the bullshit and actually seriously reply to something for once. Like this:

tudanmeng wrote:

Maybe BT is a good way to solve this problem?
No (well yes kinda but no).
Curisu
object 2 :I would be happy to share even while not playing osu! (idle at menu or systray icon).
We should share our bandwidth
I'd love to
Jeffro
I'm still wondering, how would this work for pending maps?
awp
could share just the audio file + any unchanged elements, and get the .osu files directly from the osu! server (as is now)
finalprodigy
object 2

I'm happy to share when osu! is running.
Macworld
object 2 :)
sanqian_old
how do i vote?
i want to choose 2
anonymous_old

sanqian wrote:

how do i vote?
i want to choose 2
Voting expired.
cgy343528
object 2 ~ :D
Hanyuu
i dont know is this legal?

but i would also support this when osu is started
zagrom_old
i dont know is this legal?
I assume you say this because the feature in question is like torrenting, Yes?
Torrents ARE NOT illegal, its the content on them that is. In this case, yes it
would be legal.

I would be fine sharing bandwidth, I would go as far as to say I would share some
off my own website if such a thing could be managed, (Tho limiting that ammout
would be important) We never come anywhere close to what I pay for XD
Might as well try and get the moneys worth, ya?
Hanyuu
but the content of this is copyrighted music?
Topic Starter
peppy

Hanyuu wrote:

but the content of this is copyrighted music?
Whilt there may be some copyrighted content on osu!, I don't condone of this and it will be removed should there be complaints from copyright holders. Besides, I'm pretty sure some of the maps you have uploaded are using unlicensed music, so you are adding to the problem if anything.
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