The difference is still pretty big as we're talking about a PASS vs FC first try so yeah >_>
I can do that as well, but it isn't #50 worthy.ZXCV wrote:
If you really think Scarlet Rose DT pass is impressive, then I suggest you go watch more videos, especially Staiain's. Your basis on what defines a "pro" player is severely flawed.
I can clear Scarlet Rose HDDT on 7K, and so can tons of other players. Does this make us all top #50 material?
Didn't we decided that already? That's why it's not giving pp now.ZXCV wrote:
Good, so you agree that passes on DT autoconverts are completely obsolete when it comes to gauging a player's skill.
Case closed.
you appeared to miss the emphasis on the word passesOctober Scream wrote:
Didn't we decided that already? That's why it's not giving pp now.ZXCV wrote:
Good, so you agree that passes on DT autoconverts are completely obsolete when it comes to gauging a player's skill.
Case closed.
october scream, you are ignoring my post and every point we have made.October Scream wrote:
I find it moronic how you guys are mainly blaming me and aiming most threats at me. Many other users have spoken about this, and are tired of it.
I'm just the one that spoke up. This is all of their opinions plus mine, so go scout them out and threaten them.
I'm aware of that petition. I started it because no one else would.Bites wrote:
october scream, you are ignoring my post and every point we have made.October Scream wrote:
I find it moronic how you guys are mainly blaming me and aiming most threats at me. Many other users have spoken about this, and are tired of it.
I'm just the one that spoke up. This is all of their opinions plus mine, so go scout them out and threaten them.
THIS IS FROM YOUR USERPAGE
if you are going to spearhead a movement to get keymods unranked, you should expect that we will confront you about these issues we have with your argument. we have not made a SINGLE threat, nor are we blaming you. we are simply asking you to explain yourself and refute what we are saying.
until you are willing to do so, this is the last i have to say on the matter
keymods will return as soon as difficulty data is there, so your petition hasn't been "fixed". They'll likely will be worth less, though, since converts away from 7K usually end up easier.October Scream wrote:
I'm aware of that petition. I started it because no one else would.
If you want me to explain, fine. I didn't like it when key modders would pass other players, but I have no use of that petition now actually since it's been fixed already.
i rescind this statementBites wrote:
this is the last i have to say on the matter
you are aware though that the issue hasn't been 'fixed' yet, and this is simply a temporary solution until tom94 is able to properly calculate the difference in scoring between the different keymods? in no way is DT or keymodding going to remain unranked. i had JUST said this in an earlier post:October Scream wrote:
I'm aware of that petition. I started it because no one else would.
If you want me to explain, fine. I didn't like it when key modders would pass other players, but I have no use of that petition now actually since it's been fixed already.
since you missed it, and i have reason to believe you will miss it again, let me yet again point it out to youBites wrote:
both DT and keymod converts will return to the PP algorithm once tom94 figures out what to do with them, and this has been stated explicitly
I'm a 7K player, I suck at everything which is not 7K, sorry.Halogen- wrote:
I am glad that DT and key-mod conversions will return to the rankings at the least. I will agree as a osu!mania player who could have probably taken Staiain's speed route to reach the top 10-20 despite not being able to proficiently play above 6k -- the PP scaling could have definitely been improved a bit.
I wanted to make a suggestion about separating performance points by keys in osu!mania since you're practically playing different games when you add keys, but... one of the toughest parts about scoring in osu!mania is that most players who can play higher key beat-maps are (usually) also capable of playing lower ones as well, making separated scoreboards/ranks by key a bit redundant for those who can play 8k all the way down to 4k.
You are quite the outlier.PyaKura wrote:
I'm a 7K player, I suck at everything which is not 7K, sorry.Halogen- wrote:
I am glad that DT and key-mod conversions will return to the rankings at the least. I will agree as a osu!mania player who could have probably taken Staiain's speed route to reach the top 10-20 despite not being able to proficiently play above 6k -- the PP scaling could have definitely been improved a bit.
I wanted to make a suggestion about separating performance points by keys in osu!mania since you're practically playing different games when you add keys, but... one of the toughest parts about scoring in osu!mania is that most players who can play higher key beat-maps are (usually) also capable of playing lower ones as well, making separated scoreboards/ranks by key a bit redundant for those who can play 8k all the way down to 4k.
I don't think anyone other than Stian can Disregard 1.2 AA or TOML 1.6October Scream wrote:
I've spectated him, and he's good. May pass Staiain. He has dt ranks on autoconverts, but 4k, just like Staiain.
is this why I fell from 350 to 5k rank ROFLBites wrote:
both DT and keymod converts will return to the PP algorithm
Yes. But even if you get 0pp for doing a score right now, this very score will resume to giving pp once difficulty per-keymod has been implemented. This means you're not losing anything in the long run by playing with keymods now.falkon13 wrote:
So just to check this at this moment in time playing a map with a keymod will give you 0pp?
Ouch.Staiain wrote:
To me it just looks like October Scream is just a slow pp farmer that wants to ruin the game and stop actual skilled people from being able to get good ranks, rather than just suck it up and improve his own skill
I spoke up because I found it unfair for those who have skill with all key densities instead of people with one set density being in the top past those players. If anything, Staiain needs to improve his other key skills like every other player is doing instead of sticking to 4k just to farm.Halogen- wrote:
Ouch.Staiain wrote:
To me it just looks like October Scream is just a slow pp farmer that wants to ruin the game and stop actual skilled people from being able to get good ranks, rather than just suck it up and improve his own skill
Although, it's a quite deserved response considering that this thread was quiet until he called the situation bullshit and had a hissy-fit, haha
Standard is a totally different mode. There's difficulties that have the same goal and set up as the lower difficulty, but with more hits and faster reactions.Halogen- wrote:
"rrtyui you need to improve your skill at other games rather than sticking to osu! standard to farm PP"
do you see where I am going with this? 4k and 7k might be in osu!mania, but they are different games. Different file structures, different attentions to detail, and different player groups. Stop trying to force players to play things they might not be interested in when they are more than proficient in the game that they desire to play. You are being inconsiderate, insulting, and just downright stupid.
I will level with people: auto-converts probably should take a massive deduction or shouldn't be ranked at all. I think that's largely agreeable. Attitudes like October Scream's are fostering negativity.
Standard is a totally different mode. There's difficulties that have the same goal and set up as the lower difficulty, but with more hits and faster reactions....and difficulties in o!m don't have lower difficulties set up with varying hits, HP drains, and other stats at all. People totally don't make tons of difficulties for the same keys. What are you getting at?
What if this actually was the case, and one of the reasons why I stick to 4k for the most part, and play stuff on DT because I can and legit enjoy it and not because I'm trying to farm, ever considered that? Reason I became more or less the world's top 4k player is because I enjoyed it a lot and stuck with it for years, I played 6k and a bit 7k too but just because i'm not equally skilled in all modes you don't have the right to condescend me.October Scream wrote:
if Staiain is the best 4k player in the world
What I'm getting at here is that standard will still use 2 keys or two mouse clicks, all it is is there will be harder things from the same map and different mappers. It's just placed differently. Mania can have the same intensity and challenge from a 4k and a 7k, but they both have different key amounts, when standard, sticks with the same things through the whole mode, same with taiko and CtB.Halogen- wrote:
...and difficulties in o!m don't have lower difficulties set up with varying hits, HP drains, and other stats at all. People totally don't make tons of difficulties for the same keys. What are you getting at?
This is a different game as well. I see your points, but I'm not acknowledging them or saying my minds set towards them. If you want me to say my opinions on yours, then just ask.Halogen- wrote:
they are different games.
I never said weak. I said lazy. If they don't want to learn how to play because they just want their same key amount, that's just lazy. If they don't want to learn because it's extremely difficult for them, then they should say and I'd understand. But instead, they defend themselves by saying "I'd like to see you try this." If they can say that, then I should be able to as well.Halogen- wrote:
Calling an ITG player useless because they can't play PIU is horrible and is a point that will likely get you in a lot of fire, because they are different games. Repeating this point with PIU -- you won't do well calling a PIU weak because they can't play half-double on ITG (6-key iteration), and you won't do well calling someone out on ITG double (8-key) for not being able to play Technomotion (9-key) much like you won't be able to get away with calling a Techmotion player weak because they can't play PIU double (10-key).
. Maybe I am, and I'm just not gonna reply about it.Halogen- wrote:
You're not understanding a very clear fundamental point here,
thank you, case closedOctober Scream wrote:
Mania can have the same intensity and challenge from a 4k and a 7k
What if ideu-, Entozer, or some other player was the best 7k player in the world? Would they stick to just 7k?Staiain wrote:
What if this actually was the case, and one of the reasons why I stick to 4k for the most part, and play stuff on DT because I can and legit enjoy it and not because I'm trying to farm, ever considered that? Reason I became more or less the world's top 4k player is because I enjoyed it a lot and stuck with it for years, I played 6k and a bit 7k too but just because i'm not equally skilled in all modes you don't have the right to condescend me.October Scream wrote:
if Staiain is the best 4k player in the world
I played some 4k converts because o!m lacks a large variety of 4k specific charts and i ran out of stuff to play that provides an enjoyable challenge to me, and people wanted me to score on them while they spectated that day.
Well, that makes me feel better......Halogen- wrote:
This really has gotten out of hand, and it's all because of one person (who in my opinion, really doesn't know a lot about what they're talking about).
For example 4k map has a density of let's say 10 notes/s and 7k has a density of 17.5 notes/s due to having more keys. Even though the number is different for each but is the same considering we have different amount of keys. Let's also pretend these maps are without crazy patterns, just simple triplets, doubles and alternation.The unfortunate matter is that you simply can't judge based off of the note density itself, because patterns are going to be inherently harder on 4K than 7K for different reasons. Despite only using index/middle or middle/ring, there are some patterns that are going to lend themselves to more difficulty. Assuming that there's no crazy patterns, and that doubles are used regularly/alternated, you can expect more patterns on 4K to be anchor-heavy (an anchor is a situation where the same arrow implicitly/explicitly repeats multiple times) because there's less room to play with layering in charts. Being that there are less pattern combinations overall on 4K, Agka brings up an arguable point:
Before going on though, I do want to make a note that overall note density shouldn't be increased simply because there are more keys: this simply implies that you are increasing the layering by n(k) when the number of keys isn't going to dictate the map's layering: the mapper is going to dictate the map's layering. Think in a more unbiased scenario, where the number of keys is not going to dictate the layering -- let's say we have an area of the song where there is a single synth in a melody and nothing more, and it's running at 1/4 snap at 150 BPM (to make your 10 notes/s example). In an instance where we have the same structure, it's going to depend strictly on patterning. Something that frequently leans towards one hand on 6K/7K/8K is obviously going to be more difficult than just about any 4K stream because you have a massive amount of patterning permutations. Likewise, a fluent stream on 6K/7K/8K is likely going to feel easier than a fluent stream on 4K to an experienced player because the overall feel is more natural.Agka wrote:
Under a different number of keys, an equal density would lead to the intensity being major more likely on the lower amount of keys.
In a situation where there are no repeated notes over a given even interval, a per-lane density would prove that the higher key amount gets more difficulty because there are a lot more keys to handle at once. If you were to spread patterns out in such a way on 4K with a per-lane density of 4 n/s, you would have a 16 n/s stream assuming that the patterns are evenly distributed. If the same were to happen in 8k, well... you'd likely be in big trouble, haha. These are very extreme and unlikely circumstances, though.Xcrypt wrote:
if you have the same density per lane, then the higher keymode would most likely be quite a bit more difficult, due to needing more muscle memory and reading skill to deal with all the patterns.
if you have the same density overall, then the lower keymode would probably be quite a bit more difficult due to the fact that you have a lot more strain on less fingers.
The number of unique key jumps in patterns should definitely be considered. The "stress" of a pattern is affected by how often new keys are introduced. "Note density" should already account for this, and if I know tom, it already does.EBAWER123 wrote:
I'd like to ask you - mania players about a certain thing. What do you think is harder/easier or same difficulty. Let's take 2 maps: 4k and 7k. Let's pretend that note density of each one is same and bpm is same. For example 4k map has a density of let's say 10 notes/s and 7k has a density of 17.5 notes/s due to having more keys. Even though the number is different for each but is the same considering we have different amount of keys. Let's also pretend these maps are without crazy patterns, just simple triplets, doubles and alternation. How would you judge the skill required to play these maps? We can also take it a step further to use all our fingers and say, use a 10k map with a density of 25 notes/s.