That's odd, back when I scored it, I had lvl 30's in my top 10 and nothing changed. It was an FC too...silmarilen wrote:
qualified maps do give pp, if it didnt get into your top performance it means you didnt get enough pp from it.
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Performance Points feedback and suggestions (Standard)
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all the maps currently in your top performance are higher tp lvl than this map, if you add the relatively low acc to that it makes sense that it isnt in your top performance.
uh ...tastystew wrote:
The second song, according to osu!tp calculator, is 17 levels higher. You performed reasonably well for it, so I guess it awarded you more pp.
91%, B, alot of misses ...
Not sure if i can consider it "reasonably well".
But aniway, thanks for all your answers
.Hmm, my lowest one was a lvl 43 but with 93% accuracy but, the rest are about 95-97%. Would a longer combo (1110) but the lower accuracy and 2 more tp be worth more then the shorter combo (457), 98% and two 2tp lower?silmarilen wrote:
all the maps currently in your top performance are higher tp lvl than this map, if you add the relatively low acc to that it makes sense that it isnt in your top performance.
I still don't see how http://osu.ppy.sh/b/146372 is such a high level, in comparison to chipscape and dt eiji kuinbii.
And then something like dt http://osu.ppy.sh/b/295824 is much lower than midnight siege, even though it's a lot harder
And then something like dt http://osu.ppy.sh/b/295824 is much lower than midnight siege, even though it's a lot harder
These are a few things that have bothered me too the point where i really want to make a post about it....mainly complaining about it, so i can atleast get some sense out of it. I dont really want to be told why this happens for i know how the system is working right now i want to know why it is the way it is for this is clearly flawed.
This is just today, but it happens on a regular basis, i played this beatmap for example, got a decent combo stacked up and a decent score yet i had 87% accuracy, and the accuracy is basically what caused me to lose ranks after playing this. Considering my rank of 15k and the fact i did that well on it, i was very unhappy with being rewarded by losing ranks.
at this point im tired, so i decided to 3 mod a normal beatmap, why not right? Apparently thats a bad idea too, for getting a rank of 282 of 6900 must be bad, i lost even more ranks than for the previous one.
this keeps happening to me, and has been happening to me for weeks and weeks and i kept telling myself that this would be fixed but apparently not for i keep gaining and losing my ranks for no reason at all. IM half scared to post this because its mostly complaining but im too unhappy with all of these that i just need to.
This is just today, but it happens on a regular basis, i played this beatmap for example, got a decent combo stacked up and a decent score yet i had 87% accuracy, and the accuracy is basically what caused me to lose ranks after playing this. Considering my rank of 15k and the fact i did that well on it, i was very unhappy with being rewarded by losing ranks.
at this point im tired, so i decided to 3 mod a normal beatmap, why not right? Apparently thats a bad idea too, for getting a rank of 282 of 6900 must be bad, i lost even more ranks than for the previous one.
this keeps happening to me, and has been happening to me for weeks and weeks and i kept telling myself that this would be fixed but apparently not for i keep gaining and losing my ranks for no reason at all. IM half scared to post this because its mostly complaining but im too unhappy with all of these that i just need to.
How about being able to prioritize certain rank on map which forces it to recalculate over your top score on it? 3 times per week/month so it's not that abuseable.
Topic Starter
You're not gaining any pp, because appearently you already have many, many plays of that kind of level. Try to get better scores on harder maps if you want to further increase your pp.Squigly wrote:
These are a few things that have bothered me too the point where i really want to make a post about it....mainly complaining about it, so i can atleast get some sense out of it. I dont really want to be told why this happens for i know how the system is working right now i want to know why it is the way it is for this is clearly flawed.
This is just today, but it happens on a regular basis, i played this beatmap for example, got a decent combo stacked up and a decent score yet i had 87% accuracy, and the accuracy is basically what caused me to lose ranks after playing this. Considering my rank of 15k and the fact i did that well on it, i was very unhappy with being rewarded by losing ranks.
at this point im tired, so i decided to 3 mod a normal beatmap, why not right? Apparently thats a bad idea too, for getting a rank of 282 of 6900 must be bad, i lost even more ranks than for the previous one.
this keeps happening to me, and has been happening to me for weeks and weeks and i kept telling myself that this would be fixed but apparently not for i keep gaining and losing my ranks for no reason at all. IM half scared to post this because its mostly complaining but im too unhappy with all of these that i just need to.
Keep in mind, that scores with many misses and a low accuracy are not considered a good performance, regardless of map. You shouldn't get pp for getting a D on big black + DT + NoFail, too, as an extreme example.
The reason you are losing ranks is that other people don't just stop improving. If people surpass your pp, then they rank up and you rank down. Nothing to do with the scores you set.
What is the standard Map diff for about 10k-12k Plays ? Maps like TJ.Hangneil - Kamui [SHD]?Tom94 wrote:
You're not gaining any pp, because appearently you already have many, many plays of that kind of level. Try to get better scores on harder maps if you want to further increase your pp.
Bcs I try to find hard maps to improve ... what is better to learn high AR Maps or to learn low AR high BPM Maps like DJPop Maps
Topic Starter
Why would it depend on the amount of plays? It doesn't. It depends on how much pp you already have, or more precisely, on how good your best scores already are. If you have tons of crazy scores like thelewa for example, then you would get pretty much nothing from a Kamui FC. If you only have mediocre Insane scores, then a Kamui FC would give you a lot.Ultrayano wrote:
What is the standard Map diff for 12k Plays ? Maps like TJ.Hangneil - Kamui [SHD]?Tom94 wrote:
You're not gaining any pp, because appearently you already have many, many plays of that kind of level. Try to get better scores on harder maps if you want to further increase your pp.
Oh okay now I understand the system.. I thought it depend on how much Plays you have bcs of more Plays = more Practice for normallyTom94 wrote:
Why would it depend on the amount of plays? It doesn't. It depends on how much pp you already have, or more precisely, on how good your best scores already are. If you have tons of crazy scores like thelewa for example, then you would get pretty much nothing from a Kamui FC. If you only have mediocre Insane scores, then a Kamui FC would give you a lot.
my pp got deducted by 13 after i got 99.25% on a hard map with no mod. whats happening ;_;
i've got top 45 then my rank decreased by 700..
seems really confused with new ranking system.. ._.
seems really confused with new ranking system.. ._.
i understand people dont stop improving, i was playing maps all day, i thought this was going to boost be significantly, like i stated before, i do better than people under 10k, explain it to me please. i lose ranks for doing good and gain ranks for doing bad. And one thing, personally i believe that making it so rank on a beatmap doesnt matter is probably the dumbest thing ive ever heard.Tom94 wrote:
You're not gaining any pp, because appearently you already have many, many plays of that kind of level. Try to get better scores on harder maps if you want to further increase your pp.Squigly wrote:
These are a few things that have bothered me too the point where i really want to make a post about it....mainly complaining about it, so i can atleast get some sense out of it. I dont really want to be told why this happens for i know how the system is working right now i want to know why it is the way it is for this is clearly flawed.
This is just today, but it happens on a regular basis, i played this beatmap for example, got a decent combo stacked up and a decent score yet i had 87% accuracy, and the accuracy is basically what caused me to lose ranks after playing this. Considering my rank of 15k and the fact i did that well on it, i was very unhappy with being rewarded by losing ranks.
at this point im tired, so i decided to 3 mod a normal beatmap, why not right? Apparently thats a bad idea too, for getting a rank of 282 of 6900 must be bad, i lost even more ranks than for the previous one.
this keeps happening to me, and has been happening to me for weeks and weeks and i kept telling myself that this would be fixed but apparently not for i keep gaining and losing my ranks for no reason at all. IM half scared to post this because its mostly complaining but im too unhappy with all of these that i just need to.
Keep in mind, that scores with many misses and a low accuracy are not considered a good performance, regardless of map. You shouldn't get pp for getting a D on big black + DT + NoFail, too, as an extreme example.
The reason you are losing ranks is that other people don't just stop improving. If people surpass your pp, then they rank up and you rank down. Nothing to do with the scores you set.
That map requires almost no aim at all, and it is pretty slow.NixXSkate wrote:
http://osutp.net/scores?pn=Winshley&bn=paraparamax
As for the accuracy. OD5 is relatively low.
According to the "expected unstable rate" formula:
SSing paraparaMAX is comparable to SSing a 2-minute Insane OD7 with 435 circles (considering you can retry paraparaMAX 2 times per hour of playing without breaks, and you can retry the Insane map 30 times).
Or SSing paraparaMAX is comparable to SSing an Insane OD7 with 105 circles (assuming each map was played only once and there weren't "lucky" plays).
Topic Starter
https://osu.ppy.sh/p/changelog?category=performancewailord2700 wrote:
my pp got deducted by 13 after i got 99.25% on a hard map with no mod. whats happening ;_;
It doesn't matter how many maps you are playing if you don't play on par to your best scores. The system is supposed to rate how good you are performing, not how much you are performing. There is only a limited amount of pp you can gain by playing maps of the same level.Squigly wrote:
i understand people dont stop improving, i was playing maps all day, i thought this was going to boost be significantly, like i stated before, i do better than people under 10k, explain it to me please. i lose ranks for doing good and gain ranks for doing bad. And one thing, personally i believe that making it so rank on a beatmap doesnt matter is probably the dumbest thing ive ever heard.
Considering the rank on a beatmap doesn't work for one simple reason: There are maps which have been played more than 1000 times as often as others, so simply taking the map rank into account doesn't work. "Consider map rank relative to total plays on the map then!", you might say, but that also doesn't work, because the better players tend to only play the harder maps, so the competition on easier maps is far more forgiving than on the harder maps.
I'd share my personal experience since you seem troubled and we happen to have almost the same rank at least back then. Now I'm rank 9950+Squigly wrote:
i understand people dont stop improving, i was playing maps all day, i thought this was going to boost be significantly, like i stated before, i do better than people under 10k, explain it to me please. i lose ranks for doing good and gain ranks for doing bad. And one thing, personally i believe that making it so rank on a beatmap doesnt matter is probably the dumbest thing ive ever heard.
FROM A RANK 15K PERSPECTIVE
so you're rank 15k (181Xpp).... almost perfectly the same rank I had 2 months (not sure) ago starting from the drastic change in pp (some time after the ppv2 testing). I tested a little on maps by getting SS on a hard and my pp didn't budge an inch. When I put an HD mod and got an SSH, it budged for like... 4 pp or something and it even got inside top 500 but at least there's improvement. Trimodding XH Normal maps even on top 50 doesn't give anything
Observation: Don't bother going no mod on Hard mode beatmaps
Don't bother playing Normal mode maps (unless you want to get a #1, if you can)
And when I DT a hard, SS it and got it even outside the top 500 range, you'd get 15 pp at the very least but I didn't chose this route. Instead, I went straight to FC'ing insanes/lunatics with a low acc HRHD on top 50 like this one http://osu.ppy.sh/b/173567?m=0 or a 99.50+ HD on players in the top 40-50 like this one http://osu.ppy.sh/b/263270?m=0. I made a mental note that these kinds of maps gives a lot of pp when 99%'d AND as long as it got inside 1000 (of course this should be obvious already, it's an "insane" map with a high number of combo so it'd give a bunch of pp for a low rank)
Observation: Certain insane maps with top 50s having a low acc HRHD (97% above) and FC'ing them nets you good amounts of pp
Certain insane maps with top 50s having high acc HD (99% above) and FC'ing them nets you even better amounts of pp
MOST IMPORTANT NOTE: get your rank inside 1000 as often as possible
And also, tryharding maps like Fear and Loathing..., Wahrheit, Goreshit ,"most" marathon maps or other very hard maps would rarely give you a "good amount" of pp if you can't FC them or at least get a decent combo. Maybe you'd get like 2-10pp but that's it.
I gained 300+ pp since the start of using my methods and I'm still slacking
ive been playing and beating the harder maps in the game, people of my rank cant do it and people who are much higher than me cant do it either, just awake is not an easy beatmap to play at all to get a B on it isnt even that bad, im certainly no pro player but losing ranks from this? seriously? there are definitly balancing issues if that isnt considered a hard map. This is all i want to point out, i know like no one who has beaten dance with a number at my rank, regardless of my accuracy on it (which was awful) i didnt gain a single thing from it. Its not an easy accomplishment, especially fro someone of my rank.Tom94 wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/p/changelog?category=performancewailord2700 wrote:
my pp got deducted by 13 after i got 99.25% on a hard map with no mod. whats happening ;_;It doesn't matter how many maps you are playing if you don't play on par to your best scores. The system is supposed to rate how good you are performing, not how much you are performing. There is only a limited amount of pp you can gain by playing maps of the same level.Squigly wrote:
i understand people dont stop improving, i was playing maps all day, i thought this was going to boost be significantly, like i stated before, i do better than people under 10k, explain it to me please. i lose ranks for doing good and gain ranks for doing bad. And one thing, personally i believe that making it so rank on a beatmap doesnt matter is probably the dumbest thing ive ever heard.
Considering the rank on a beatmap doesn't work for one simple reason: There are maps which have been played more than 1000 times as often as others, so simply taking the map rank into account doesn't work. "Consider map rank relative to total plays on the map then!", you might say, but that also doesn't work, because the better players tend to only play the harder maps, so the competition on easier maps is far more forgiving than on the harder maps.
After reading other posts i want to point out that i dont want to know how this works, i know how the system works, im trying to point out how much of a flaw this is that accuracy is so heavily weighted that i can lose ranks from doing well on beatmaps. But if it truly isnt going to9 affect your decisions with where to take this then i guess ill simply just stop.
So I just lost 12pp after playing a map I had only played once before (about 3 minutes prior to that to be exact). I improved both my accuracy (and had fewer misses) and my combo. Also I didn't get any pp for my previous performance.
It's not a hard map at all and it was just to get warmed up really so I'm kind of confused as to what happened, I didn't expect it to influence my pp at all.
http://puu.sh/7iTA7.png
It doesn't bother me too much because pp isn't exactly important around my level but I thought I'd let you know since afaik PPv2 doesn't punish you for bad performances except when you overwrite an old score with worse accuracy etc.
If it was just due to another pp recalculation, please point me to the appropriate changelog entry.
Edit: Also, you did a great job on the new system overall, I haven't encountered any problems before this and I think it portrays my performance a lot better than PPv1 did, though I still feel like osu! thinks of me as a better player than I actually am.
It's not a hard map at all and it was just to get warmed up really so I'm kind of confused as to what happened, I didn't expect it to influence my pp at all.
http://puu.sh/7iTA7.png
It doesn't bother me too much because pp isn't exactly important around my level but I thought I'd let you know since afaik PPv2 doesn't punish you for bad performances except when you overwrite an old score with worse accuracy etc.
If it was just due to another pp recalculation, please point me to the appropriate changelog entry.
Edit: Also, you did a great job on the new system overall, I haven't encountered any problems before this and I think it portrays my performance a lot better than PPv1 did, though I still feel like osu! thinks of me as a better player than I actually am.
Yasaburo wrote:
So I just lost 12pp after playing a map I had only played once before (about 3 minutes prior to that to be exact). I improved both my accuracy (and had fewer misses) and my combo. Also I didn't get any pp for my previous performance.
It's not a hard map at all and it was just to get warmed up really so I'm kind of confused as to what happened, I didn't expect it to influence my pp at all.
http://puu.sh/7iTA7.png
It doesn't bother me too much because pp isn't exactly important around my level but I thought I'd let you know since afaik PPv2 doesn't punish you for bad performances except when you overwrite an old score with worse accuracy etc.
If it was just due to another pp recalculation, please point me to the appropriate changelog entry.
Edit: Also, you did a great job on the new system overall, I haven't encountered any problems before this and I think it portrays my performance a lot better than PPv1 did, though I still feel like osu! thinks of me as a better player than I actually am.
PP dropped by ±18 after doing this. If anything, shouldn't it increase instead of decreasing?
PP recalculation?
——
Ah, performance update. Perhaps some recalculation was done.
https://osu.ppy.sh/p/changelog?category=performance
Sorry, but that was the last system where farmers could prevail and FL was supreme.Squigly wrote:
And one thing, personally i believe that making it so rank on a beatmap doesnt matter is probably the dumbest thing ive ever heard.
Tom already discussed this on a previous post:Squigly wrote:
ive been playing and beating the harder maps in the game, people of my rank cant do it and people who are much higher than me cant do it either, just awake is not an easy beatmap to play at all to get a B on it isnt even that bad, im certainly no pro player but losing ranks from this? seriously? there are definitly balancing issues if that isnt considered a hard map. This is all i want to point out, i know like no one who has beaten dance with a number at my rank, regardless of my accuracy on it (which was awful) i didnt gain a single thing from it. Its not an easy accomplishment, especially fro someone of my rank.
After reading other posts i want to point out that i dont want to know how this works, i know how the system works, im trying to point out how much of a flaw this is that accuracy is so heavily weighted that i can lose ranks from doing well on beatmaps
Tom's reply to your last post
Accuracy is indeed heavily weighted but it does not determine everything. It is mainly a tie breaker like it should be.Tom94 wrote:
You're not gaining any pp, because appearently you already have many, many plays of that kind of level. Try to get better scores on harder maps if you want to further increase your pp.Squigly wrote:
These are a few things that have bothered me too the point where i really want to make a post about it....mainly complaining about it, so i can atleast get some sense out of it. I dont really want to be told why this happens for i know how the system is working right now i want to know why it is the way it is for this is clearly flawed.
This is just today, but it happens on a regular basis, i played this beatmap for example, got a decent combo stacked up and a decent score yet i had 87% accuracy, and the accuracy is basically what caused me to lose ranks after playing this. Considering my rank of 15k and the fact i did that well on it, i was very unhappy with being rewarded by losing ranks.
at this point im tired, so i decided to 3 mod a normal beatmap, why not right? Apparently thats a bad idea too, for getting a rank of 282 of 6900 must be bad, i lost even more ranks than for the previous one.
this keeps happening to me, and has been happening to me for weeks and weeks and i kept telling myself that this would be fixed but apparently not for i keep gaining and losing my ranks for no reason at all. IM half scared to post this because its mostly complaining but im too unhappy with all of these that i just need to.
Keep in mind, that scores with many misses and a low accuracy are not considered a good performance, regardless of map. You shouldn't get pp for getting a D on big black + DT + NoFail, too, as an extreme example.
The reason you are losing ranks is that other people don't just stop improving. If people surpass your pp, then they rank up and you rank down. Nothing to do with the scores you set.
I once did 98%, gained a couple of pp, great.Novixion wrote:
Accuracy is indeed heavily weighted but it does not determine everything. It is mainly a tie breaker like it should be.
Then I replayed it with Hidden mod, 96% accuracy, but score is higher than the previous one, lost around half of it.
I am not quite satisfied with this... but it can't be helped I think; only the highest score is stored and used as the pp calculation.
The amount of points gained is exponential from 96->97->98->99->100. So if you lose accuracy, you lose points, usually.s4nji wrote:
I once did 98%, gained a couple of pp, great.Novixion wrote:
Accuracy is indeed heavily weighted but it does not determine everything. It is mainly a tie breaker like it should be.
Then I replayed it with Hidden mod, 96% accuracy, but score is higher than the previous one, lost around half of it.
I am... not quite satisfied with this?
The thing is, when you get like 99.9% on a ~1000 objects map, that's like 1x100, right?s4nji wrote:
I once did 98%, gained a couple of pp, great.
Then I replayed it with Hidden mod, 96% accuracy, but score is higher than the previous one, lost around half of it.
I am not quite satisfied with this... but it can't be helped I think; only the highest score is stored and used as the pp calculation.
Now if you get 99.8%, that doesn't seem like a big difference, but it's 2x100, which is twice more 100s
99.7% would be 3x100, which is 3 times as more 100s, etc etc
And HD does nothing to compensate this, as accuracy isn't any harder with this mod, so the small aim bonus you'd get with it is outbalanced by the heavy loss of accuracy
Topic Starter
You can't lose pp from getting new scores as long as you don't beat an old score with worse accuracy / miss count or a recalculation is happening, period.Squigly wrote:
ive been playing and beating the harder maps in the game, people of my rank cant do it and people who are much higher than me cant do it either, just awake is not an easy beatmap to play at all to get a B on it isnt even that bad, im certainly no pro player but losing ranks from this? seriously? there are definitly balancing issues if that isnt considered a hard map. This is all i want to point out, i know like no one who has beaten dance with a number at my rank, regardless of my accuracy on it (which was awful) i didnt gain a single thing from it. Its not an easy accomplishment, especially fro someone of my rank.
After reading other posts i want to point out that i dont want to know how this works, i know how the system works, im trying to point out how much of a flaw this is that accuracy is so heavily weighted that i can lose ranks from doing well on beatmaps. But if it truly isnt going to9 affect your decisions with where to take this then i guess ill simply just stop.
The ranks you are losing do not come from making a new score, but from other people surpassing your rank. Your rank is merely not updated all the time, but only periodically and when you make a score.
Let me repeat once again, the system rates the quality of your performance. It is not intended to give a lot of points to plays on hard maps which you can barely pass. Imagine playing the piano. You don't perform in a concert with a damn hard piece, that you can barely play with quite a lot of mistakes.
And yeah, the difficulty judgement is not perfect, so you might find a few maps not getting rated 100% perfectly. Many of val's low-spacing high BPM maps like "with a dance number" or "scarlet rose" are underrated. :/
No it doesn't compare, stop smoking. SSing an Insane OD7 that's only 2 minutes sightread is absolutely totally incomparable unless your patience is absolutely unlimited thenFull Tablet wrote:
That map requires almost no aim at all, and it is pretty slow.NixXSkate wrote:
http://osutp.net/scores?pn=Winshley&bn=paraparamax
As for the accuracy. OD5 is relatively low.
According to the "expected unstable rate" formula:
SSing paraparaMAX is comparable to SSing a 2-minute Insane OD7 with 435 circles (considering you can retry paraparaMAX 2 times per hour of playing without breaks, and you can retry the Insane map 30 times).
Or SSing paraparaMAX is comparable to SSing an Insane OD7 with 105 circles (assuming each map was played only once and there weren't "lucky" plays).
Also do you seriously think an SS on an old 30 minute map should be only 26 acc tp? Only 2 people could SS it despite its popularity for a reason. Also the AR is the same as the OD. Might not mean shit in tp, but it certainly doesn't help.
After 50 pages people still haven't been able to understand:
1- You can't lose pp. If you happen to lose pp it's because there is some update going on or you beat one of your scores with another one that's worth less pp than your old one (dunno if this has been fixed yet, make ranks based on pp earned pls like osu!tp, ranked score is crap).
2- Rank does not mean pp, it's not the same to lose some ranks that to lose pp.
3- A map is not hard because you think it's hard, most osu! players can't even clear hard maps, like it or not the system needs to set up a standard, even if that means to hurt you because it constantly reminds you that you suck. If you are good you should be able, if interested, to climb through the ranks.
Just be patient, don't try to rush things, focus on getting better, that's the best way to get to a higher position, unless you are willing to really try hard.
4- You don't need to know how the system works to get better ranks, you need to play better, no way around it.
1- You can't lose pp. If you happen to lose pp it's because there is some update going on or you beat one of your scores with another one that's worth less pp than your old one (dunno if this has been fixed yet, make ranks based on pp earned pls like osu!tp, ranked score is crap).
2- Rank does not mean pp, it's not the same to lose some ranks that to lose pp.
3- A map is not hard because you think it's hard, most osu! players can't even clear hard maps, like it or not the system needs to set up a standard, even if that means to hurt you because it constantly reminds you that you suck. If you are good you should be able, if interested, to climb through the ranks.
Just be patient, don't try to rush things, focus on getting better, that's the best way to get to a higher position, unless you are willing to really try hard.
4- You don't need to know how the system works to get better ranks, you need to play better, no way around it.
Totally agreeWishy wrote:
You don't need to know how the system works to get better ranks, you need to play better, no way around it.
Unfortunately, a very large part of that reason is the ridiculously awful timing of the map, which pp doesn't and shouldn't account for.NixXSkate wrote:
Only 2 people could SS it despite its popularity for a reason.
I'm not saying Winshley's play wasn't more impressive than its tp value indicates - the difficulties involved just aren't something pp measures.
Then how about getting a new rank on a random insane, then getting inside rank 1000 with a 99% acc+ then losing pp (1-5pp)?Wishy wrote:
If you happen to lose pp it's because there is some update going on or you beat one of your scores with another one that's worth less pp than your old one (dunno if this has been fixed yet, make ranks based on pp earned pls like osu!tp, ranked score is crap).
That "can't lose pp" is such the case during the past system but something is different now. There are even people losing 3 digit pps for some random reason
If you lose pp from a completely new rank, you are seeing the effects of algorithm changes. There is no correlation at all with your new score, it just triggered the update on your stats.
I completed a map with half a star with half time, no fail and easy and gained ranks, yet when I play an "insane" or "hard" map I actually lose ranks. Where do I complain about this? I might as well just SS easy maps only to get a higher rank.
Ever since I got through airman (only a day or 2 ago) without any mods, it has felt as though every score has taken my rank down but simultaneously upped my pp. Tell me, am I drunk, is the pp system favoring accuracy more, or am I AND the pp system drunk? (recently DT'D a hard with 1 miss > +2pp but rank went down by 30, this triggered my need to stare at the rank)
You probably don't get enough pp and people are outranking you in the meanwhile
as a small side note for the new star system (which I think is a good improvement), new qualified maps aren't being rated properly. (or is it supposed to be that way?)
Kunino Sagiri wrote:
Then how about getting a new rank on a random insane, then getting inside rank 1000 with a 99% acc+ then losing pp (1-5pp)?Wishy wrote:
If you happen to lose pp it's because there is some update going on or you beat one of your scores with another one that's worth less pp than your old one (dunno if this has been fixed yet, make ranks based on pp earned pls like osu!tp, ranked score is crap).
That "can't lose pp" is such the case during the past system but something is different now. There are even people losing 3 digit pps for some random reason
Wishy wrote:
If you happen to lose pp it's because there is some update going on or you beat one of your scores with another one that's worth less pp than your old one (dunno if this has been fixed yet, make ranks based on pp earned pls like osu!tp, ranked score is crap).
When I play the top ranks of people above me, its usually some map that's just slightly above my skill level that I have to beat. I'm surprised at how accurate it is now at gauging challenge. I'm climbing ranks much much slower now though, but it's about the journey- not the horizon.
IamNotgod_old
Yeah, I noticed that too. For example, one of my friends who played mostly DT maps with low 90s accuracy suddenly got 95% overall accuracy after the most recent recalculation. Also, all his DT scores got removed from his top performances aside from the only one he had a FC on (he only dropped ~500 ranks though from 14.5k to 15k). So his new top performances are just full combos that he himself said don't even feel like his best. On those new top performances, there were medium jumps at medium speeds with streams. We both feel that those are underwhelming to his fast, full-screen jumps in his DTs that lack many streams and have a little less accuracy. While having accuracy as a bigger factor is good and all, we should consider that good aim and good speed can also be had without such accuracy, which the current system doesn't seem capable to account for.Brimroth wrote:
Ever since I got through airman (only a day or 2 ago) without any mods, it has felt as though every score has taken my rank down but simultaneously upped my pp. Tell me, am I drunk, is the pp system favoring accuracy more, or am I AND the pp system drunk? (recently DT'D a hard with 1 miss > +2pp but rank went down by 30, this triggered my need to stare at the rank)
It's really depressing that people will ask the same question that Wishy gave an answer for, ON THE SAME PAGE, and the next page... a few more times... and has been answered in numerous separate topics, and previously in this thread by other people MULTIPLE times.
Your rank does not update every second, or hour, or even day. The act of making a new score forces an update of your rank. Sometimes it can not be updated for up to 3 days, in my case, then I make a new score and it updates and I "lose" 50 ranks. People passed me in PP while I wasn't playing. How hard is that to grasp?
There are only 2 ways you can lose PP... when the algorithm updates, or you make a worse performance overwriting an existing score. You lose ranks all the time, because everyone else is increasing their PP faster than you... BY PLAYING THE DAMN GAME AND GETTING BETTER INSTEAD OF WHINING ABOUT IT.
Unless you're Jesus, you won't get PP doing that.
Your rank does not update every second, or hour, or even day. The act of making a new score forces an update of your rank. Sometimes it can not be updated for up to 3 days, in my case, then I make a new score and it updates and I "lose" 50 ranks. People passed me in PP while I wasn't playing. How hard is that to grasp?
There are only 2 ways you can lose PP... when the algorithm updates, or you make a worse performance overwriting an existing score. You lose ranks all the time, because everyone else is increasing their PP faster than you... BY PLAYING THE DAMN GAME AND GETTING BETTER INSTEAD OF WHINING ABOUT IT.
Sigh...IamNotgod wrote:
For example, one of my friends who played mostly DT maps with low 90s accuracy suddenly got 95% overall accuracy after the most recent recalculation. Also, all his DT scores got removed from his top performances aside from the only one he had a FC on
Unless you're Jesus, you won't get PP doing that.
I've not seen this asked yet. How much does the spinner mod affect pp?
Probably counts as a normal hit in terms of accuracy. Might contribute to speed?ntaig wrote:
I've not seen this asked yet. How much does the spinner mod affect pp?
Tom94 wrote:
Spinners are included as having to aim to the center and move a big. They are pretty much negligible. SpunOut multiplies the pp you gain from that particular score by 0.95.-ArmoredTitan- wrote:
3. Are spinners included in the PP formula? Also, would Spun Out affect your PP gain?
Outranking shouldn't matter now, that it is 100% based on the difficulty algorithm, unless it was changed into back into ranks mattering (which I personally disapprove of)GoldenWolf wrote:
You probably don't get enough pp and people are outranking you in the meanwhile
Edit: Brimroth achieved rank #283 on Rabpit - Sanctity [Hard] (osu!) this is the map, I just FC'd it with DT getting the rank you see, losing 23 ranks as I did it, but still acquiring 2 pp. Tom94, fix this please.
are you serious?
All right guys.
What you need to realise is that there are others playing this game, and their rank can influence yours. How? If they're below you in overall rank (NOT A RANK ON A MAP) and then increase to being above you, you will drop 1, because now one more person is above you.
Now, there are a lot of people playing this game and so often many more than just one person will pass you overnight. When you then again play a song, your rank updates. You'll drop ranks because you gained no pp yet others passed you while you weren't playing/getting pp.
your rank does NOT update real-time, it updates EVERY TIME you set ANY KIND OF SCORE. So if it's been 24 hours since your lasts core, that's 24 hours of changes. Often at least one person will have passed you.
What you need to realise is that there are others playing this game, and their rank can influence yours. How? If they're below you in overall rank (NOT A RANK ON A MAP) and then increase to being above you, you will drop 1, because now one more person is above you.
Now, there are a lot of people playing this game and so often many more than just one person will pass you overnight. When you then again play a song, your rank updates. You'll drop ranks because you gained no pp yet others passed you while you weren't playing/getting pp.
your rank does NOT update real-time, it updates EVERY TIME you set ANY KIND OF SCORE. So if it's been 24 hours since your lasts core, that's 24 hours of changes. Often at least one person will have passed you.
are you implying that 30 people passed me (or the others, haven't read the thread) by more than 2 pp in about 2 hours?PlasticSmoothie wrote:
All right guys.
What you need to realise is that there are others playing this game, and their rank can influence yours. How? If they're below you in overall rank (NOT A RANK ON A MAP) and then increase to being above you, you will drop 1, because now one more person is above you.
Now, there are a lot of people playing this game and so often many more than just one person will pass you overnight. When you then again play a song, your rank updates. You'll drop ranks because you gained no pp yet others passed you while you weren't playing/getting pp.
your rank does NOT update real-time, it updates EVERY TIME you set ANY KIND OF SCORE. So if it's been 24 hours since your lasts core, that's 24 hours of changes. Often at least one person will have passed you.
It's 6:39PM UTC now, this is the online users count:Brimroth wrote:
are you implying that 30 people passed me (or the others, haven't read the thread) by more than 2 pp in about 2 hours?PlasticSmoothie wrote:
All right guys.
What you need to realise is that there are others playing this game, and their rank can influence yours. How? If they're below you in overall rank (NOT A RANK ON A MAP) and then increase to being above you, you will drop 1, because now one more person is above you.
Now, there are a lot of people playing this game and so often many more than just one person will pass you overnight. When you then again play a song, your rank updates. You'll drop ranks because you gained no pp yet others passed you while you weren't playing/getting pp.
your rank does NOT update real-time, it updates EVERY TIME you set ANY KIND OF SCORE. So if it's been 24 hours since your lasts core, that's 24 hours of changes. Often at least one person will have passed you.
It can go as high as 10-11k from what I've seen, probably higher.
Do you really think 30 people is a lot? There is many people that are better than you, get over it.
sDraxuss wrote:
It's 6:39PM UTC now, this is the online users count:Brimroth wrote:
are you implying that 30 people passed me (or the others, haven't read the thread) by more than 2 pp in about 2 hours?
It can go as high as 10-11k from what I've seen, probably higher.
Do you really think 30 people is a lot? There is many people that are better than you, get over it.
I don't mind people being better than me, I mind the fact that it felt as though the system had messed up, but then I played an easy stream map and got like 40pp and figured screw blaming the system.
IamNotgod_old
I don't understand why you would just discount that. No, he's not as good as you in the top 1000s, but he was still a decent player at least at 14k. Literally 7/10 of his top performances were non full combo DTs before the most recent update. I'm not complaining that the updates made him lose rank. In fact, he barely lost any. All that I was saying is that his new top performances don't seem to show what he is good at. Now it shows some easy-medium difficulty FCs with only average accuracy. Nothing shows what we both consider to be his best plays. I remember seeing something along the lines of some profile page rework maybe in the feature requests. Perhaps we could also include a new, separate section for the profile where a user can select 10 performances that they themselves feel showcase their own skill rather than only the 10 giving the most pp being shown.RaneFire wrote:
Sigh...IamNotgod wrote:
For example, one of my friends who played mostly DT maps with low 90s accuracy suddenly got 95% overall accuracy after the most recent recalculation. Also, all his DT scores got removed from his top performances aside from the only one he had a FC on
Unless you're Jesus, you won't get PP doing that.
Is the new star system out? I noticed the star rating on some maps have already changed...
And I thought 5.00+ are hard to find...
And I thought 5.00+ are hard to find...
This thread isn't for people that are bad with math
or logic in general
or logic in general
I saw everything become [N], for normals, for a couple of minutes only 2 days ago. I was about to say "I can't even pass normals now" but then it was fixed to represent E/N/H properly with lower star values. Changelog says this was changed on the 27th Feb though, I guess there was some delay.Novixion wrote:
Is the new star system out? I noticed the star rating on some maps have already changed...
...
And I thought 5.00+ are hard to find...
Yeah very few maps are above 4 stars now, it's practically only the maps on the first page of "sort by difficulty."
I just made an assumption based on the zero info you gave. I don't know who he is, or what maps he's been playing. All I meant by "unless you're jesus" was that you would need some crazy speed just for the pp system to recognise your play if it is a low-acc, non-fc. General rule of thumb, as Tom has explained many times, is that it rates good performances first and foremost, not bad ones.IamNotgod wrote:
Literally 7/10 of his top performances were non full combo DTs before the most recent update. I'm not complaining that the updates made him lose rank. In fact, he barely lost any. All that I was saying is that his new top performances don't seem to show what he is good at. Now it shows some easy-medium difficulty FCs with only average accuracy.
Hypothetically I could only play DT on insanes and get 60-70% all the time, and then play an easier map and FC it and go WTF. I think it's a matter of what you think you can do, but the system doesn't see it that way.
It would be nice to implement the star system in-game, if possible.
Topic Starter
All planned.Keeby wrote:
It would be nice to implement the star system in-game, if possible.
I have a question: Did something change in the past few days about calculating pp? I have noticed, that i'm not getting any pp for songs that i finish without full comboing them. So basically after few hours of trying i finally beat a song that is difficult for me, only to see +0 pp. But then i full combo some relatively easy song on Nightcore (+HardRock/Hidden, depends), where the main problem is not to fall asleep during playing and i'm rewarded with at least some pp.
I remember, that finishing difficult songs (for your current level of skill/pp) was always highly rewarded. Was this changed?
The second explanation is, that my performance points simply caught up with me and now i'm where i'm supposed to be (which would, honestly, be quite sad :-))
Well, either way, thanks for any responses in advance and have a nice day everyone :-)
EDIT: Just tried it, played http://osu.ppy.sh/b/46004 on NC, first try, not even knowing how the beatmap actually looks: +1 pp Not even S rank, 93% accuracy. For something like this i'd expect to get +0, seems weird to me.
I remember, that finishing difficult songs (for your current level of skill/pp) was always highly rewarded. Was this changed?
The second explanation is, that my performance points simply caught up with me and now i'm where i'm supposed to be (which would, honestly, be quite sad :-))
Well, either way, thanks for any responses in advance and have a nice day everyone :-)
EDIT: Just tried it, played http://osu.ppy.sh/b/46004 on NC, first try, not even knowing how the beatmap actually looks: +1 pp Not even S rank, 93% accuracy. For something like this i'd expect to get +0, seems weird to me.
rank is not showing correctly for a long time, for example, it shows rank 1000 ingame but on site (rankings) it is 980, whats wrong? o.o
Rank isn't updating realtime now (Web)Commy wrote:
rank is not showing correctly for a long time, for example, it shows rank 1000 ingame but on site (rankings) it is 980, whats wrong? o.o
well, I dont think it is caused by updating because every single player (rrtyui, www and the others in top5 (?) no) has wrong rank written ingame, on site (profile), you can be #50 but it will still show #53 even if you never had this positionUltrayano wrote:
Rank isn't updating realtime now (Web)Commy wrote:
rank is not showing correctly for a long time, for example, it shows rank 1000 ingame but on site (rankings) it is 980, whats wrong? o.o
hakurei/shizuru/others that have temporary (i think) bans still have their ranks calculated etcCommy wrote:
well, I dont think it is caused by updating because every single player (rrtyui, www and the others in top5 (?) no) has wrong rank written ingame, on site (profile), you can be #50 but it will still show #53 even if you never had this position
I know I must be annoying or everything, but ...
It's OD 10, there is lots of jumps, and it's not really the easiest map possible, but ...
It's not DT, so no pp.
Why ? ...
Edit :
It's OD 10, there is lots of jumps, and it's not really the easiest map possible, but ...
It's not DT, so no pp.
Why ? ...
Edit :
Because those maps aren't hard, OD10 isn't hard in itself when you only have 1/2 through the maps
Example: http://osutp.net/scores?pid=475021&s=3
All those maps are OD9.8/10 and pretty much the same accuracy (there are even SSes on the bottom), the acc value can change a lot depending on how hard the map actually is
Example: http://osutp.net/scores?pid=475021&s=3
All those maps are OD9.8/10 and pretty much the same accuracy (there are even SSes on the bottom), the acc value can change a lot depending on how hard the map actually is
Well, i know that, but it's still hard for me, and pp was before something you gain when you improve.
I'm improving, because i'm doing scores i couldn't do before, and i'm not gaining anything.
It's like the game is saying i suck and i should stop playing, or go farm DT because now only DT is rewarded.
I'm improving, because i'm doing scores i couldn't do before, and i'm not gaining anything.
It's like the game is saying i suck and i should stop playing, or go farm DT because now only DT is rewarded.
Before pp was farming all day.Soinou wrote:
Well, i know that, but it's still hard for me, and pp was before something you gain when you improve.
I'm improving, because i'm doing scores i couldn't do before, and i'm not gaining anything.
It's like the game is saying i suck and i should stop playing, or go farm DT because now only DT is rewarded.
With the amount of pp you have and the accuracy of those scores, you wouldn't get much pp. To get accuracy pp you need >99%, which is why DT, which grants aim and speed, gives more points.
I'll assume they're mostly DT/speed based scores
The thing is, those HR scores you've set are far easier than all those DT scores, since the main gain of HR is accuracy, and those accuracies you've got being not so good, you won't gain much/anything from them
Yeah, so in fact, it's all about DT, OR having 99% HR, which is kinda impossible for me right now.
So, in the end, i must DT, or do nothing at all ?
Pretty good ranking system, yeah
So, in the end, i must DT, or do nothing at all ?
Pretty good ranking system, yeah
Okay let's be honest, 97% OD10 is trash because it like OD8 SS, which is trivial (especially on those maps full of 1/2s / no stream)
This system rewards good performance, not crappy ones
If you can't get high accuracy, don't blame the system for not rewarding you; instead improve your accuracy and get some decent scores
This system rewards good performance, not crappy ones
If you can't get high accuracy, don't blame the system for not rewarding you; instead improve your accuracy and get some decent scores
DT players saying it's too easy to get points with DT and too hard with HR
HR players saying it's too easy with HR and too hard with DT
hmmmmmmmmmm
HR players saying it's too easy with HR and too hard with DT
hmmmmmmmmmm
The difference is, that SS'ing OD8 gives a lot of accuracy points, while OD10 97% gives practically nothing.GoldenWolf wrote:
Okay let's be honest, 97% OD10 is trash because it like OD8 SS, which is trivial (especially on those maps full of 1/2s / no stream)
This is a pretty good point.Novixion wrote:
With the amount of pp you have and the accuracy of those scores, you wouldn't get much pp. To get accuracy pp you need >99%, which is why DT, which grants aim and speed, gives more points.
In fact DT increases all the attributes, even accuracy, but not as much as HR does. HR will mostly increase accuracy, so with the way the system works at present, DT is pretty much the way to go, unless you can SS OD10 like thelewa.
I don't know exactly how pp handles OD or how it treats SS, but if you can consistently get 97% on OD10, then, assuming your hits are normally distributed and centered on the correct timing, you can consistently get > 99.9% on OD8. If 97% OD10 isn't giving comparable pp to OD8 SS (I don't know if it does or not), that's unfair to HR players.Ziggo wrote:
The difference is, that SS'ing OD8 gives a lot of accuracy points, while OD10 97% gives practically nothing.GoldenWolf wrote:
Okay let's be honest, 97% OD10 is trash because it like OD8 SS, which is trivial (especially on those maps full of 1/2s / no stream)
GhostFrog wrote:
I don't know exactly how pp handles OD or how it treats SS, but if you can consistently get 97% on OD10, then, assuming your hits are normally distributed and centered on the correct timing, you can consistently get > 99.9% on OD8. If 97% OD10 isn't giving comparable pp to OD8 SS (I don't know if it does or not), that's unfair to HR players.
Problem with this... is that it's only a margin for error, and thus scoring.GhostFrog wrote:
If 97% OD10 isn't giving comparable pp to OD8 SS (I don't know if it does or not), that's unfair to HR players.
People playing OD8 maps with high accuracy could very well be hitting as accurately as OD10 players, but it doesn't matter because it's within that margin anyway. HR increases other aspects as well, like circle size and AR, adding some stress to the situation, which could affect your accuracy unless you're completely comfortable with it. Not many players can read AR10 absolutely comfortably, even if they can perform well at AR10.
You can't look at it as though they only have a OD8 level of accuracy, even if that's what the scoreboard says. Even though it is kinda unfair at the moment, "how much" is debatable because any modification would be arbitrary and based completely on opinion. Silmarilen already mentioned that SS'ing YAMAGEN'S DEVILELIET - EYES OF DEVILELIET is much more difficult than any of his other scores, even though it's OD is lower. The HR players are rewarded in this case though. So the problem is obviously the opinion of "base accuracy skill."
People playing 180bpm stream maps could very well have the speed to play 240bpm stream maps. People playing a jump map nomod (or hey, with HR) could very well be hitting the exact center of every hitcircle and would still FC with CS13. It doesn't matter - a 180bpm stream map can't prove your ability to stream 240bpm and playing a CS4 map can't prove your ability to play CS7. While it's entirely possible some random person SSing OD8 would be getting high accuracy OD10 scores, playing OD8 doesn't test that and they deserve no extra reward for the *possibility* that they're better than their play demonstrates. If they want to be rewarded for good OD10 accuracy, they should find OD8 maps they can play with HR. It's unfortunate that HR will almost certainly make the map AR10 if the player can't read it, but the job of the ranking system isn't to determine whether or not the rules of the game make sense - it's to rate the performance of a player in a particular play.RaneFire wrote:
People playing OD8 maps with high accuracy could very well be hitting as accurately as OD10 players, but it doesn't matter because it's within that margin anyway.
That's a bit extreme and doesn't really bear extra weight to the argument because they're unrealistic situations.
HR players are rewarded properly for their accuracy in certain cases.
Circle size barely factors into difficulty, unless they get really small. Speed is already considered fully and it doesn't change except with DT, which calculates a completely new difficulty.
Accuracy on the other hand, is not easy to measure. Ideally, everyone should be measured by the OD10 margin of error, and then you can extrapolate more accurate results. But it still won't be perfect, because mapping style can heavily affect your accuracy. Pattern complexity is coming... I hope.
HR players are rewarded properly for their accuracy in certain cases.
Circle size barely factors into difficulty, unless they get really small. Speed is already considered fully and it doesn't change except with DT, which calculates a completely new difficulty.
Accuracy on the other hand, is not easy to measure. Ideally, everyone should be measured by the OD10 margin of error, and then you can extrapolate more accurate results. But it still won't be perfect, because mapping style can heavily affect your accuracy. Pattern complexity is coming... I hope.
Then remove the extreme part of it. If you FC a CS4 map, don't you think it's reasonably likely you could have FCed it on CS4.2 (CS3 + HR)? If so, should you be given extra aim points for that possibility?RaneFire wrote:
That's a bit extreme and doesn't really bear extra weight to the argument because they're unrealistic situations.
HR players are rewarded properly for their accuracy in certain cases.Are you referring to the EYES OF DEVILELIET scores you posted? That map is OD7. OD9.8 is harder compared to OD7 than OD10 is compared to OD8. I ran the same calculation as I did earlier - getting 97% consistently on OD9.8 (assuming normal distribution, hits centered at perfect timing) means getting > 99.98% consistently on OD7.
Maybe 1 more point? You should get a better understanding of how human beings perceive their environment. The approach circle scales with circle size as well, and in some cases I find it harder to read a map with very large circles as opposed to smaller ones. The map is also mapped according to the circle size, otherwise you will have weird spacing. So all in all, it's about what is appropriate, and CS plays a very small role in difficulty so long as it's appropriate. HR should increase the difficulty immensely in cases where the CS becomes obfuscated and patterns can no longer be hit in the nomod fashion.GhostFrog wrote:
Then remove the extreme part of it. If you FC a CS4 map, don't you think it's reasonably likely you could have FCed it on CS4.2 (CS3 + HR)? If so, should you be given extra aim points for that possibility?
Yes, but getting an SS on that map with OD7, or even just 99%, is many times more difficult than getting 97% on other OD10 maps because of the way it's made. If a map is not difficult to play in aim or speed, why should you get a full accuracy reward from HR?GhostFrog wrote:
Are you referring to the EYES OF DEVILELIET scores you posted? That map is OD7. OD9.8 is harder compared to OD7 than OD10 is compared to OD8. I ran the same calculation as I did earlier - getting 97% consistently on OD9.8 (assuming normal distribution, hits centered at perfect timing) means getting > 99.98% consistently on OD7.
Again... base accuracy skill... opinions.
Why do you want to compare this map with other maps? The point was comparing no mod and HR on the very same map. And the map you mentioned is really difficult with HR as well, so getting 97% with HR should easily be on a level with 100% no mod.RaneFire wrote:
Yes, but getting an SS on that map with OD7, or even just 99%, is many times more difficult than getting 97% on other OD10 maps because of the way it's made.
How does the algorithm work for accuracy ? Does it compute an estimated unstable rate (or a range) ?
What calculation method did you use?GhostFrog wrote:
I ran the same calculation as I did earlier - getting 97% consistently on OD9.8 (assuming normal distribution, hits centered at perfect timing) means getting > 99.98% consistently on OD7.
If you interpolated this table http://www.mediafire.com/download/pgb55 ... te_v2.xlsx for the "99%confidence" value (guessing since it gives similar results to what you give), take into consideration that, for example, an unstable rate of 100 in a map of 1000 circles should hardly ever result in less than 93.75%accuracy on OD10. For comparing purposes I think low confidence percentages make more sense (since most records are from maps the players have retried several times).
It uses a formula made by Tom94 http://pastebin.com/XDDgKEvw#_=_ (this pastebin is outdated though, it is probably somewhat different currently).KaosFR wrote:
How does the algorithm work for accuracy ? Does it compute an estimated unstable rate (or a range) ?
Something I assume is much less sophisticated than what the table uses. I found the standard deviation of hit timings that would give 97% accuracy on OD9.8 and found what percent of 300s that would give on OD7 (I basically counted 100s as misses instead to be on the safe side). If you're consistently getting that standard deviation, you should consistently be getting the corresponding OD7 accuracy, unless I did something wrong.Full Tablet wrote:
What calculation method did you use?GhostFrog wrote:
I ran the same calculation as I did earlier - getting 97% consistently on OD9.8 (assuming normal distribution, hits centered at perfect timing) means getting > 99.98% consistently on OD7.
Computers everywhere. Not one who plays the game.
i personally find getting 97% on hr many times more difficult that getting (almost) SS on od8, but that's also because of the increased ar and circle size. usually if i can SS a map on nomod first try i get like 90-95% first try on hr (assuming i can play the map with hr, which i usually cant)
The thing is that i'm not a DT player.Aqo wrote:
DT players saying it's too easy to get points with DT and too hard with HR
HR players saying it's too easy with HR and too hard with DT
hmmmmmmmmmm
Well, sorry for my totally useless posts, it was just me trying to blame something for being bad, but well, I'll try to be a bit more clear about what I think even if nobody cares.
I think the problem with the current system is that it gives pp based on the difficulty of the maps.
However, what is difficulty ? How is it possible to accurately evaluate difficulty for every players ?
For example, like you all point out, my top scores are DT, but ... I find them really easy. I almost never practiced for DT, I just play DT from times to times and that's where I got these scores, which gave me a lot of pp because the system evaluates them as "hard", while they're kinda easy.
But, I got some HD scores only after a long long time practicing HD, and it took me several weeks training with this mod to have some scores like my 96% FC on Torikago, which is considered as bad by the system, because the map is not considered difficult, while this is very difficult for me.
The point I'm trying to make is that, with this system, you get rewarded doing something easy to achieve, and you get no reward doing something that took you a lot of training, and really hard to achieve.
I find this kinda sad.
But well, you'll probably say that it's just me trying to blame the system for being bad or something, or that I just suck, and i should stop/farm DT or anything else, so feel free to ignore me, delete my post or anything, I don't care.
Topic Starter
Hmm, that's not exactly intended though. I'll try to make it more appropriate in that direction.Ziggo wrote:
GhostFrog wrote:
I don't know exactly how pp handles OD or how it treats SS, but if you can consistently get 97% on OD10, then, assuming your hits are normally distributed and centered on the correct timing, you can consistently get > 99.9% on OD8. If 97% OD10 isn't giving comparable pp to OD8 SS (I don't know if it does or not), that's unfair to HR players.
You find the beatmaps with DT easy because you already have the skills and experience required to play it. Just because you didn't have to "work" for a certain score, doesn't mean it was an easy feat. Half of my top scores were done in less than 5 plays (complete fluke plays of course), while the other half I probably had to play up to probably 50 times over the course of a few weeks (Which is ridiculously high for me, I've never retried past 10 in one go).Soinou wrote:
SPOILERThe thing is that i'm not a DT player.Aqo wrote:
DT players saying it's too easy to get points with DT and too hard with HR
HR players saying it's too easy with HR and too hard with DT
hmmmmmmmmmm
Well, sorry for my totally useless posts, it was just me trying to blame something for being bad, but well, I'll try to be a bit more clear about what I think even if nobody cares.
I think the problem with the current system is that it gives pp based on the difficulty of the maps.
However, what is difficulty ? How is it possible to accurately evaluate difficulty for every players ?
For example, like you all point out, my top scores are DT, but ... I find them really easy. I almost never practiced for DT, I just play DT from times to times and that's where I got these scores, which gave me a lot of pp because the system evaluates them as "hard", while they're kinda easy.
But, I got some HD scores only after a long long time practicing HD, and it took me several weeks training with this mod to have some scores like my 96% FC on Torikago, which is considered as bad by the system, because the map is not considered difficult, while this is very difficult for me.
The point I'm trying to make is that, with this system, you get rewarded doing something easy to achieve, and you get no reward doing something that took you a lot of training, and really hard to achieve.
I find this kinda sad.
But well, you'll probably say that it's just me trying to blame the system for being bad or something, or that I just suck, and i should stop/farm DT or anything else, so feel free to ignore me, delete my post or anything, I don't care.
The scores may have felt easy, but you wouldn't have been able to pull it off when you just started, right? Everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses, the system can't compensate for everyone individually. In other words, what's easy for you may not be easy for others.
Well, I know that the system can't compensate for everyone individually, but it feels kinda sad that the system rewards you for choosing simplicity over hard work.nooblet wrote:
You find the beatmaps with DT easy because you already have the skills and experience required to play it. Just because you didn't have to "work" for a certain score, doesn't mean it was an easy feat. Half of my top scores were done in less than 5 plays (complete fluke plays of course), while the other half I probably had to play up to probably 50 times over the course of a few weeks (Which is ridiculously high for me, I've never retried past 10 in one go).
The scores may have felt easy, but you wouldn't have been able to pull it off when you just started, right? Everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses, the system can't compensate for everyone individually. In other words, what's easy for you may not be easy for others.
@soinou
You're missing something though; it's not because you find something easy that it is easy, same when you find something hard it doesn't mean it is hard.
Example: I find these slow ar8 maps hard since I can't SS them, mostly because I suck at reading stuff, but it doesn't mean they're any hard.
So,
You're missing something though; it's not because you find something easy that it is easy, same when you find something hard it doesn't mean it is hard.
Example: I find these slow ar8 maps hard since I can't SS them, mostly because I suck at reading stuff, but it doesn't mean they're any hard.
So,
you may not always get rewarded for something you find hard, but you'll get rewarded for something that is hard, depends on what you're good/bad at.Soinou wrote:
The point I'm trying to make is that, with this system, you get rewarded doing something easy to achieve, and you get no reward doing something that took you a lot of training, and really hard to achieve.
Yeah, but being "hard" or "easy" depends on the player, so how can you judge the difficulty of a map for every players, and say a map "is" hard ?GoldenWolf wrote:
you may not always get rewarded for something you find hard, but you'll get rewarded for something that is hard, depends on what you're good/bad at.
This is true. I've managed to do good performances on some maps easily that some of my friends couldn't do at all, even if they can easily clear maps I have lots of trouble with (For example, I FC'd LeaF - MEPHISTO, something none of my other friends managed to do, but I'm nearly at the bottom of my friends list on Nico Nico Chorus - Leia, even though the map isn't that hard). Everyone is good at different things, some people are better with higher AR's, others with lower ones, some are HR players, others HD players, and others DT players. You can't really say "X mod is easier than Y mod", since it varies for everyone. I find HR easier than HD, because I have trouble reading HD and perform better on AR10, even though I'm sure many people think HD is easier than HR.nooblet wrote:
You find the beatmaps with DT easy because you already have the skills and experience required to play it. Just because you didn't have to "work" for a certain score, doesn't mean it was an easy feat. Half of my top scores were done in less than 5 plays (complete fluke plays of course), while the other half I probably had to play up to probably 50 times over the course of a few weeks (Which is ridiculously high for me, I've never retried past 10 in one go).
The scores may have felt easy, but you wouldn't have been able to pull it off when you just started, right? Everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses, the system can't compensate for everyone individually. In other words, what's easy for you may not be easy for others.
It's best to just calculate based on what the mod changes on the map (for example, in my opinion, HD should give a similar bonus to HR for aim, since you have to aim for disappearing notes, while HR should give a significantly larger bonus than HD for accuracy, since HD doesn't alter the map's accuracy settings at all). But I think this has already been done quite well, and I don't think anyone should be trying to get the algorithms to change based on what they find easy or hard. It's different for everyone.
Some things are objectively hard; like a 129 circles stream at 222bpmSoinou wrote:
Yeah, but being "hard" or "easy" depends on the player, so how can you judge the difficulty of a map for every players, and say a map "is" hard ?
Other things are subjectively hard; like low AR, old maps, squares, ...
+
-Scylla- wrote:
It's best to just calculate based on what the mod changes on the map (for example, in my opinion, HD should give a similar bonus to HR for aim, since you have to aim for disappearing notes, while HR should give a significantly larger bonus than HD for accuracy, since HD doesn't alter the map's accuracy settings at all). But I think this has already been done quite well, and I don't think anyone should be trying to get the algorithms to change based on what they find easy or hard. It's different for everyone.
Well, the calculation formulas are perfect now :3
just need two adjsutements:(many of you will NEVER understand what I said here - that's the cradle of eventual profanity against it).
- fix star diff rating to reflect exactly the challenge level, according to the date in which a given map was ranked. Such challenge approaches varies from year to year, from epoque to epoque, so diff star rating would be made really great when it consider the epoque when the map got ranked (2007 maps challenge people in different fashion of current maps does). It would help with relax a bit with diff names, etc.
- calculate a 'personal difficulty profile' for each player, so it'll take the correct pp/rank for each person according to relative skills, instead of pushing an universal skill profile for everyone.
just need two adjsutements:(many of you will NEVER understand what I said here - that's the cradle of eventual profanity against it).
- fix star diff rating to reflect exactly the challenge level, according to the date in which a given map was ranked. Such challenge approaches varies from year to year, from epoque to epoque, so diff star rating would be made really great when it consider the epoque when the map got ranked (2007 maps challenge people in different fashion of current maps does). It would help with relax a bit with diff names, etc.
- calculate a 'personal difficulty profile' for each player, so it'll take the correct pp/rank for each person according to relative skills, instead of pushing an universal skill profile for everyone.
Do you realize how hypocritical this is?Alarido wrote:
Well, the calculation formulas are perfect now :3
just need two adjsutements:
This has already been asked, and it's not really high priority. Doing it based on date would be stupid, though a visible difficulty meter based on the map would be useful.Alarido wrote:
- fix star diff rating to reflect exactly the challenge level, according to the date in which a given map was ranked. Such challenge approaches varies from year to year, from epoque to epoque, so diff star rating would be made really great when it consider the epoque when the map got ranked (2007 maps challenge people in different fashion of current maps does). It would help with relax a bit with diff names, etc.
I like this, but I think it's already been mentioned, and I recall Tom saying that he would probably implement it in the future.Alarido wrote:
- calculate a 'personal difficulty profile' for each player, so it'll take the correct pp/rank for each person according to relative skills, instead of pushing an universal skill profile for everyone.
I think the length of the song can influence the PP in the same difficulty
I have actually 915 pp,but after 3 days,I checked the pp again and it is 879, how could pp reducing?
please make it not reducing anymore if ranking reducing it's okay but please not the pp
please make it not reducing anymore if ranking reducing it's okay but please not the pp
When selecting "osu!" on the beatmap listing, is it possible to make the "sort by difficulty" ignore difficulties from other game modes in the same mapset as standard difficulties? Bunch of apples and drums amongst the stars are bringing far too many irrelevant maps to the top, because of their SR, when trying to look for standard difficulties. Or is there some technicality preventing that? (Not talking about entire mapsets devoted to taiko/ctb/mania)
EDIT: I mean on the website.
EDIT: I mean on the website.
RaneFire wrote:
When selecting "osu!" on the beatmap listing, is it possible to make the "sort by difficulty" ignore difficulties from other game modes in the same mapset as standard difficulties? Bunch of apples and drums amongst the stars are bringing far too many irrelevant maps to the top, because of their SR, when trying to look for standard difficulties. Or is there some technicality preventing that? (Not talking about entire mapsets devoted to taiko/ctb/mania)
Select "Mode" from the dropdown.
Open "osu!" collection.
I meant on the website, which has the proper star difficulty rating. The osu! client does not at present.Draxuss wrote:
Open "osu!" collection.
"Beatmap Listing" is the web name. "Song Select" is the client name.
So far I think that the rank are accurate. I went to 130k to 70k after the update.
But I feel like there's something wrong , one of my friend is better than me but his rank is lower than mine
probably because he don't fc song but he can acutally plays 0108 songs and I cannot .
But I feel like there's something wrong , one of my friend is better than me but his rank is lower than mine
probably because he don't fc song but he can acutally plays 0108 songs and I cannot .