o/
Just get the hell out of this thread, thanks.[Super Shock] wrote:
The only thing I what please is too Fix the top Rangs on Profile
pow haha googel[Super Shock] wrote:
I know that my english is bad so I have something misspelled
P. S. I work with googel OK <. <
Who said pp was gonna be remove ..Sabi wrote:
I don't see what is the issue with PP and Ranking, In every game there always is a Ranking System to motivate yourself to get better, and believe me the only reason why i got pp/rank in the first place was to prove myself good, rank 180 looks alot better than rank 1000 in my eyes, and it helps to let people know what is your skill set and what's your overall progression, if you remove ranking you will most likely remove OWC and CTB WC, there will be no point, and yes in this game there always is Competitiveness no matter how you look at it, theres a REASON why it says "#1" In Multi
EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplayer_game Also quote directly from here
"The players might be independent opponents, formed into teams or be just a single team pitted against the game."
^OPPONENTS "someone who competes against or fights another in a contest, game, or argument; a rival or adversary." So please stop
100% Kingkevin30 aprroved, Spinners are the Soul of every Map so PP-Rain for all the Spinner lovers <3Haron wrote:
I want peppy do that PPv2 depends on SPINNERS!!! #1 in "your" mod - much more pp.
Bad english, yea...
YusHaron wrote:
I want peppy do that PPv2 depends on SPINNERS!!! #1 in "your" mod - much more pp.
Bad english, yea...
I never agree. SS is easy in CTB compared to other modes, of course. But then how can you give an explanation that old map, for example? There are many map for weird sliders and small CS. In some map of them, it is more hard to rank SS in CTB rather than other modes. rank higher accuracy is great abillity too. I hope to don't overlook that. In addition, if make less weight of SS, how many users strive to do rank SS? Then many users will be don't really work to do rank SS but just aim to FC and spins. How could be SS FC same with S or A, B, C, D FC on the earth?TenguKing9 wrote:
I have a few suggestions that I would like to give for this system:
1. As DeathXHunter said before, SS should have less weight in the formula since it's easier to SS in Catch The Beat compared to other modes.
TenguKing9 wrote:
2. Since FL is heavily based on memorization rather than actual skill it should be weighed a bit less than no mod plays.
FL just only need memorization? How many did you played FL? Especially, i want to ask you about have you played FL on AR 7, 8, 9 maps. To jump to the conclusion about FL is heavily based rather than actual skill, "No". I guess you don't know about what is FL actually. FL needs many actual skills. Many FL on AR 6- map maybe just need memorization. But so did AR 7+? As like AFB says, FL mod makes some black areas (Invisible) around the ryuuta. And the areas dimished when you catch the fruits 100, 200+ combo. You can never see any fruits on black areas. you can just depend on narrow lightning (Visible) areas. So you will be feel higher AR when you playing FL on whatever map. As you know, when you add HR or DT, that makes AR higher. FL so does. When you playing FL, you have to make combo in limited sight. It needs memorization, control, and adapt to higher AR. Bonus score is higher in HD+DT than FL but FL is very difficult in many AR7+ maps than HD+DT. Please play FL on AR7+ maps and think about why FL players are fewest in 4 modes.alienflybot wrote:
FlashLight (FL) - In my opinion this would be the mod that gives the least pp. FL tests player's memorization, which is just acting the same thing as No-Mod does, but with some black areas around the ryuuta. I think using FL just only need memorization, which should not worth that many pp.
About FL,I don't care,it's shit anyways.Oh well, I hate FL, too. But please, this is a discussion.
Notation used in this post:CLSW wrote:
I think setting the players' most frequency droplet misses as a point criteria is better.
Some maps are easy, but some maps (especially maps in 2008~2009s, http://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=6097&m=2)are hard to SS.
Users' frequency Percent of pp Droplet misses
50%(the most) 10% 3
20% 13% 2
10% 20% 1
2% 30% 0
Like this, If you can't understand I'm sorry for poor language.
Group Class Users' frequency Droplet Misses
F 10% 5
E 15% 4
D 30% 3
C 25% 2
B 15% 1
A 5% 0
Group Class Users' frequency Droplet Misses
E 10% 5
D 15% 4
C 30% 3
B 25% 2
A 20% 1
Group Class Users' frequency Droplet Misses
F 10% 5
E 15% 4
D 30% 3
C 25% 2
B 15% 1
A 5% 0
Group Class Users' frequency Droplet MissesGroup A would get BestPP = 100/1.01^1 = 99
E 10% 5
D 15% 4
C 30% 3
B 25% 2
A 20% 1
Group Class Users' frequency Droplet Misses
F 10% 5
E 15% 4
D 30% 3
C 25% 2
B 15% 1
A 5% 0
Group Class Users' frequency Droplet Misses
F 30% 5
E 40% 4
D 25% 3
C 4% 2
B 0% 1
A 1% 0
This formula just assumes there's a Maximum Droplet PP Contribution, which I called MaxPP. As for how is it calculated, I have no idea but, as I said in my post, it could be a percentage of the "accuracy" (considering this is something similar to tp!standard, with "Aim", "Speed" and "Accuracy")-Kurisu- wrote:
If I understand correctly you are calculating a maximum droplet pp contribution based on the map's difficulty. Then a player will get a higher fraction of that if it's more difficult to catch all of the droplets on that map.
Nope. My formula would asign MaxPP to all those PF SS. It would, however, be more fair with non SS scores: ppv1 gave a lot of PP to those SS and missing one or more droplets meant you got almost no pp. This formula gives pp almost to all players.-Kurisu- wrote:
Also that droplet contrib would have less weight if everyone easily catches all of the droplets? This would fix most of the PF SS farming maps on ctb I think.
If a maps has no droplets, then there should be no droplet pp contribution, as simple as that. As for any other case, the PP you get is strongly dependant on how do you compare with others players. For example, if there was a map with 1 droplet and you finished it missing that droplet, you could get 99 pp in the best case. If, in fact, everybody has missed that droplet, you'll get 99 pp ( 99*(1-0)^0.1 ). But if some players did catch that droplet, the pp you'd get will be punished by how many players did better than you. If only 10% of the players catched it, you'd get 97 pp (out of 100); if half the players catched it, you'd get 92 pp; if 90% of the players catched it (meaning you did really bad), you'd get 78 pp. So, the punishment is not that much.-Kurisu- wrote:
What about the possibility where the map has few/no droplets and is still difficult to FC (maybe these https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=119021&m=2, https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=92780&m=2)? Would that still punish a player too much if they FC but miss a droplet? Not sure if I'm misinterpreting your formula, if it accounts for this that would be great (I suck at math can anyone offer feedback also...)
Group Class Users' frequency Droplet Misses
D 10% 3
C 20% 2
B 40% 1
A 30% 0
Group Class Users' frequency Droplet Misses
D 10% 3
C 70% 2
B 15% 1
A 5% 0
Group Class Users' frequency Droplet Misses
H 5% 7
G 5% 6
F 10% 5
E 5% 4
D 10% 3
C 15% 2
B 20% 1
A 30% 0
Group Class Users' frequency Droplet Misses
H 5% 7
G 10% 6
F 15% 5
E 30% 4
D 20% 3
C 10% 2
B 5% 1
A 5% 0
Loctav wrote:
Please keep the discussion structured. If you are incapable to contribute in a constructive manner, your posts will be removed and penalities will be given out.
The penalty is harsh, but that formula isn't meant to apply to overall pp. If the system is going to work like tp, there should be some factors measuring beatmap difficulty (like "Aim", "Speed" and "Accuracy" in Standard) and then droplets could represent a % of, say, accuracy pp.Zak wrote:
Too much math for me, but it seems like there's way too harsh a penalty for droplet misses, you should really fix that as it seems like it won't be much better than ppv1...
isn't that near impossible to think about as it would take up to much time? to get the factors measuring a beatmap difficulty which i assume is done mostly by hand picking maps wouldn't really be that much of a viable option for some maps considering for some players some maps are harder than others, and getting a maplist like that for the "hardest maps" that require the most amount of skill would definitely require a intense amount of work the people working on pp for not only the ctb game mode but also the taiko and mania game mode too as all of those would also need their own high skill tier mapsets.ZiRoX wrote:
If the system is going to work like tp, there should be some factors measuring beatmap difficulty (like "Aim", "Speed" and "Accuracy" in Standard) and then droplets could represent a % of, say, accuracy pp.
How tp works for standard: http://osutp.net/info, the difficulty is calculated by an algorithm.Amir wrote:
isn't that near impossible to think about as it would take up to much time? to get the factors measuring a beatmap difficulty which i assume is done mostly by hand picking maps wouldn't really be that much of a viable option for some maps considering for some players some maps are harder than others, and getting a maplist like that for the "hardest maps" that require the most amount of skill would definitely require a intense amount of work the people working on pp for not only the ctb game mode but also the taiko and mania game mode too as all of those would also need their own high skill tier mapsets.ZiRoX wrote:
If the system is going to work like tp, there should be some factors measuring beatmap difficulty (like "Aim", "Speed" and "Accuracy" in Standard) and then droplets could represent a % of, say, accuracy pp.
Because especially with mods getting an SS is hard on some maps, so it should be rewarded. There are a lot maps where it is harder to get an SS than a good spin, just saying.Kurokami wrote:
Some players can miss a droplet but their spinner skills covering it and get more point than some SS record. Why they need to get fewer pp?
Yes, it needs to be rewarded but just if the map is hard enough. But its impossible to a Ai to determine how hard is a map truly. Yes, maybe there are 30 player with 1 droplet miss and 1 with SS but that can mean two thing. First is, maybe the hard it too hard to SS so that player with SS needs to be rewarded more. Second, those 30 player just sucked and can't get that droplet because of the lack of skill but with time 50 more SS it so they slowly get fewer pp since the map is easy. BUT here comes the skill, what will happen if this is the first Insane fc for one of those players? He/she really need to get the same amount as the rest or maybe more since this is the first higher level fc? I don't think so. But then complain will happen since why he/she got more pp then the rest, etc. So in the end no system will be fair enough to all player no matter what is the formula but one pp drop should be punished too hard. Of course it can be stacked up as the misses growing and maybe add some extra punishment in it, like:Tenshichan wrote:
Because especially with mods getting an SS is hard on some maps, so it should be rewarded. There are a lot maps where it is harder to get an SS than a good spin, just saying.
I think the difficulty of the map isn't relevant when it comes to SS or no SS. For example this map: *click*. It is easy to FC even with HD DT, but it is damn hard to get an SS on, as you can see, no one has it actually with HD DT or HD HR. So if someone does the only SS with HD DT, he will automatically get more pp from it than someone who has maybe catched 15 bananas more, because it is obviously way harder to do the SS rank here than getting a good spin.Kurokami wrote:
Yes, it needs to be rewarded but just if the map is hard enough.
I agree, thats why it should be clearly checked how many players SS'd a certain difficulty with this set of mods. So if there are only 4 of 25 players with SS you will still get a decent bonus for SS. Simple.Kurokami wrote:
But its impossible to a Ai to determine how hard is a map truly.
When there will be 50 players with SS, then SS should clearly not be relevant, but only with the same mod usage that is. For example, we have a mapset, where #1-#4 are HD DT records and the rest are all Hidden SS. If for example #3 managed to do a HD DT SS, he should get a small reward for it, even though there are many SS records with only Hidden mod, so that he maybe gets the same pp amount out of it as #1 with no SS.Kurokami wrote:
Yes, maybe there are 30 player with 1 droplet miss and 1 with SS but that can mean two thing. First is, maybe the hard it too hard to SS so that player with SS needs to be rewarded more. Second, those 30 player just sucked and can't get that droplet because of the lack of skill but with time 50 more SS it so they slowly get fewer pp since the map is easy.
I don't get it. If a newer player gets a Hidden SS on a hard map, he will certainly get more pp out of it than someone who can do it with ease. Why should a #100 player complain that a #2500 player got more pp for an SS than him. It is obvious that he would get more pp out of it because of his rank, and slowly decreased that amount when he climbs up the ranks.Kurokami wrote:
BUT here comes the skill, what will happen if this is the first Insane fc for one of those players? He/she really need to get the same amount as the rest or maybe more since this is the first higher level fc? I don't think so. But then complain will happen since why he/she got more pp then the rest, etc. So in the end no system will be fair enough to all player no matter what is the formula[...]
Agree, but you are contradicting yourself here.Kurokami wrote:
[...]but one pp drop should be punished too hard. Of course it can be stacked up as the misses growing and maybe add some extra punishment in it, like:
1 dp miss = -2 pp
2 dp miss = -4,5pp
3 dp miss = -7pp
etc
A Hidden SS is the maximum amount of "droplet pp" you can gain from a Hidden FC on a map. If you miss a droplet, you will only get a certain percentage of that amount. Still, this "droplet pp" needs to be weighted with the spins and the number of SS ranks with the selected (difficulty increasing) mod(s). So if you FC a hard map with SS, while only 5 other people have SS with the same mod, you will get a certain "bonus". This can be counted on every map, while hard maps automatically give you this kind of "bonus". If you miss a droplet on a map with no Hidden SS, you will still get good pp out of it, but not the maximum "droplet pp".Zak wrote:
I think instead of being punished for missing droplets, you should get small bonuses for really nice accuracy on certain maps.
Have you read my posts completely? It's not meant to apply to overall pp. Think of it as a bonus that decreases with droplet misses. Also, Zak's POV (increasing bonus for better accuracy) can work well. Also, I said there are some values that are just a random try. I made this (http://puu.sh/6SdOh) for you to play. If you think it's too harsh, try using a higher LL value and/or a lower DF value. Also, you can see how a bigger number of droplets makes the thing less harsh (change TD for this) and how the most influential part is how you did compared to other players (changing AF)Kurokami wrote:
Tell me why a droplet miss needs to be punished harshly?
What I've played or not is really out of discussion. But, FYI, yes.Kurokami wrote:
Have you every tried a really hard map with Hidden where the SV went up and the horizontal sliders were really hard to SS?
Then let's keep with ppv1, where the pp was based on the rank you got on the map.Kurokami wrote:
Some players can miss a droplet but their spinner skills covering it and get more point than some SS record. Why they need to get fewer pp?
It's just an idea about how to handle a specific part of CTB.Kurokami wrote:
I think you still need to work on that formula since its aren't actualy countthe player's skill. Just how good their accuracy was.
They can be rewarded equally. And again, I repeat, my formula is based on a lot of assumptions. One really important point is how to determine MaxPP. Obviously, some maps are harder to SS and the reward for SSing them should be higher and so, MaxPP should be higher. Considering how tp works for standard, if there was something related to Accuracy, one could set MaxPP to be a percentage of this "Accuracy Difficulty Value". As tp re-calculates these values for mod plays, a HD play will have a higher value of Accuracy and MaxPP would be higher for a play with HD. So it is possible for a no-mod SS and a Hidden S to be equally (or similarly) rewared.Kurokami wrote:
Okay, I read them once again. And yeah my sentences were a bit bad. I wanted to mean no-mod SS and Hidden S. So how do you want to make difference between? Since they are almost the same but not really since sometimes "easier" to get SS than an fc with hidden. Well they are mostly special cases but still they are kinda at the same level (not counting FL). So I just want to know if you think they should be rewarded equaly or not. But yes at the end the reward for good accuracy instead of a punish for DP miss sounds much better. Of course I agree with the punishment too, since its not really that hard to get SS, I just don't think it should be high (a few pp which can stack is a good amount).