Remove performance points.
CtB has always had droplets as being 10 points (at least as long as I've been around) and changing this now would cause problems more than likely.Sabi wrote:
3:why are droplets worth 10 points.. lol? we only get these droplets to get that SS Bonus for the PP.. so please fix that <3
This doesn't really need to be addressed as ppv2 doesn't care about your rank, it cares about your accuracy/mods more, though I do think on maps with spinners it should reward you a bit more for spinning well.Sabi wrote:
4: another thing is spinner maps, in ctb there are pp maps called no spinner maps such as (Maware - Popner's Hard) https://osu.ppy.sh/s/122658 Which gave over 40-50 PP If you SS'd it with HR/HD because you would tie for 3rd/4th place and give alot of pp, but if you even miss 1 droplet you would lose all that pp gain
HD should ALWAYS give more than no mod imo, as no map is ever actually easier, on AR<7 it is hard for most people but those maps shouldn't matter for the most part except for when they have small CS or when adding HR creates a lot of tough jumps that were easy beforehand (example: http://osu.ppy.sh/b/290744&m=2 Not that challenging no mod but when you add HR very few people can FC even though the AR is low). And when it comes to hard maps, the harder end of the AR8 maps become extremely difficult to do with HD (example: http://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=240107&m=2 no one has even FC'd with HD yet) and on hard AR9 maps HD always makes them more challenging, hard jumps will always become much harder when using HD, even if the player is better at using HD than no mod, such as myself. The best solution would be to have HD weigh more heavily on maps that are especially hard with HD when compared to no mod, and weigh less (but still slightly more than no mod) on easier maps.bomber34 wrote:
HD should not be weighted that much ... or more or less like
- the lower the AR the more HD weights
on high AR you can ignore HD really
Most of what you said was pretty good, though note density can matter with jumps, especially on a map like https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=129285&m=2 , the notes are so close together that they become very hard to hit on ctb even with no mod, so when calculating difficulty, maybe consider not just how close jumps are horizontally, but maybe how close they are on the timeline as well as how often the jumps are close enough to be hard to hit.eldnl wrote:
The note density doesn't matter that much, everything is about the jumps, a fast bpm song without jumps will be easy, a slow bpm song with a lot of jump will be hard.
This is somewhat good, but we have to make sure that an SS isn't given too little weight, as sometimes hitting those droplets can take a lot of work and deserve a reward, and maybe we should base the pp bonus an SS will give based on how hard it is to SS compared to getting an FC (maybe by the % of FC's that are also an SS?) Basically an SS should still always give more, but just not to the ridiculous extent as it does currently.TenguKing9 wrote:
1. As DeathXHunter said before, SS should have less weight in the formula since it's easier to SS in Catch The Beat compared to other modes.
FL should always be weighted heavier than no mod, but it should be weighted accordingly to how difficult the jumps are in a map, as slow maps with very few jumps are pretty easy to do with FL, while taking the time to FC something somewhat hard should give you a reward (hopefully not to a huge extent though)TenguKing9 wrote:
2. Since FL is heavily based on memorization rather than actual skill it should be weighed a bit less than no mod plays.
Again this needs to be based on how hard the map will be with those mods, as on most maps, DT is still easier, while on AR8+ some maps become hard to simply pass with DT, so the weighting should be on a per map basis as explained for Hd and FLTenguKing9 wrote:
3. DT should have more weight overall since players can DT AR8 maps that are difficult and get little to no reward for it in the previous system. The higher the AR the more weight it should have since it doesn't cap at AR10 like HR does.
I do believe AR10 should have more weight than currently probably but we should avoid making it too big as some players (such as myself) just simply don't have the ability to do AR10 without memorizing the entire map, I kinda wish AR10 was made somewhat slower for ctb and other AR's were adjusted accordingly to be more fair as you're limited by the catcher speed as WELL as reaction time, while every other mode relies purely on your reaction time, but this isn't the place for a discussion on that.TenguKing9 wrote:
5. AR10 maps should have a lot of weight since not many players in CTB can read AR10 and the maps with it are really difficult.
I agree with this but Freedom Dive is a horrible example since it's still very hard for people to FC even with being much easier than on standard. a map like MENDES (https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=75831&m=2) would probably do much better as an example as it's hard for the average standard player to combo yet on ctb you need HD+DT just to get top 50, which is very uncommon for any AR8 map on ctb.TenguKing9 wrote:
8. There are maps that are considered easier to do on CTB than on standard example being Freedom Dive that shouldn't be weighed as heavily on ctb due to it being mostly streams.
This very true, there are several maps that are harder than most specifics, I don't need to list examples as any ctb player knows this. Though if a converted map's difficulty is calculated to around the same as a specific, I believe the specific should give a little more as it was made for ctb specifically.TenguKing9 wrote:
9. There are auto-converts that are harder than some ctb specifics that should weigh more in this case. CTB Specifics shouldn't outweigh every map just because it's a specific.
I don't like the idea of HD+FL giving a large bonus on ctb as most maps that have more than 300-400 combo are impossible to do without total memorization, and while memorization is considered a skill something like HD+FL shouldn't be able to end up giving people a large amount of pp that they don't deserve. A bonus is fine, but please nothing too large.Rorona wrote:
OT: FLHD should be worth more. (does anyone even play that?)
well my " high AR you can ignore HD really" part was forumalted badly ...Zak wrote:
HD should ALWAYS give more than no mod imo, as no map is ever actually easier, on AR<7 it is hard for most people but those maps shouldn't matter for the most part except for when they have small CS or when adding HR creates a lot of tough jumps that were easy beforehand (example: http://osu.ppy.sh/b/290744&m=2 Not that challenging no mod but when you add HR very few people can FC even though the AR is low). And when it comes to hard maps, the harder end of the AR8 maps become extremely difficult to do with HD (example: http://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=240107&m=2 no one has even FC'd with HD yet) and on hard AR9 maps HD always makes them more challenging, hard jumps will always become much harder when using HD, even if the player is better at using HD than no mod, such as myself. The best solution would be to have HD weigh more heavily on maps that are especially hard with HD when compared to no mod, and weigh less (but still slightly more than no mod) on easier maps.bomber34 wrote:
HD should not be weighted that much ... or more or less like
- the lower the AR the more HD weights
on high AR you can ignore HD really
Well, I can't play HD at all, even though I was like rank 900, because I look right above Ryuuta to play, or at least a little above him.Zak wrote:
I was simply explaining my views while taking into consideration that some people have a lot of trouble playing HD even if they're pretty good no mod, I would say though that the harder a map is to FC/SS the harder it will be with HD added as a result.
Does anyone else have thoughts on this?
you mean like This ? :^)Zak wrote:
I was simply explaining my views while taking into consideration that some people have a lot of trouble playing HD even if they're pretty good no mod, I would say though that the harder a map is to FC/SS the harder it will be with HD added as a result.
Does anyone else have thoughts on this?
Just get the hell out of this thread, thanks.[Super Shock] wrote:
The only thing I what please is too Fix the top Rangs on Profile
pow haha googel[Super Shock] wrote:
I know that my english is bad so I have something misspelled
P. S. I work with googel OK <. <
Who said pp was gonna be remove ..Sabi wrote:
I don't see what is the issue with PP and Ranking, In every game there always is a Ranking System to motivate yourself to get better, and believe me the only reason why i got pp/rank in the first place was to prove myself good, rank 180 looks alot better than rank 1000 in my eyes, and it helps to let people know what is your skill set and what's your overall progression, if you remove ranking you will most likely remove OWC and CTB WC, there will be no point, and yes in this game there always is Competitiveness no matter how you look at it, theres a REASON why it says "#1" In Multi
EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplayer_game Also quote directly from here
"The players might be independent opponents, formed into teams or be just a single team pitted against the game."
^OPPONENTS "someone who competes against or fights another in a contest, game, or argument; a rival or adversary." So please stop
100% Kingkevin30 aprroved, Spinners are the Soul of every Map so PP-Rain for all the Spinner lovers <3Haron wrote:
I want peppy do that PPv2 depends on SPINNERS!!! #1 in "your" mod - much more pp.
Bad english, yea...
YusHaron wrote:
I want peppy do that PPv2 depends on SPINNERS!!! #1 in "your" mod - much more pp.
Bad english, yea...
I never agree. SS is easy in CTB compared to other modes, of course. But then how can you give an explanation that old map, for example? There are many map for weird sliders and small CS. In some map of them, it is more hard to rank SS in CTB rather than other modes. rank higher accuracy is great abillity too. I hope to don't overlook that. In addition, if make less weight of SS, how many users strive to do rank SS? Then many users will be don't really work to do rank SS but just aim to FC and spins. How could be SS FC same with S or A, B, C, D FC on the earth?TenguKing9 wrote:
I have a few suggestions that I would like to give for this system:
1. As DeathXHunter said before, SS should have less weight in the formula since it's easier to SS in Catch The Beat compared to other modes.
TenguKing9 wrote:
2. Since FL is heavily based on memorization rather than actual skill it should be weighed a bit less than no mod plays.
FL just only need memorization? How many did you played FL? Especially, i want to ask you about have you played FL on AR 7, 8, 9 maps. To jump to the conclusion about FL is heavily based rather than actual skill, "No". I guess you don't know about what is FL actually. FL needs many actual skills. Many FL on AR 6- map maybe just need memorization. But so did AR 7+? As like AFB says, FL mod makes some black areas (Invisible) around the ryuuta. And the areas dimished when you catch the fruits 100, 200+ combo. You can never see any fruits on black areas. you can just depend on narrow lightning (Visible) areas. So you will be feel higher AR when you playing FL on whatever map. As you know, when you add HR or DT, that makes AR higher. FL so does. When you playing FL, you have to make combo in limited sight. It needs memorization, control, and adapt to higher AR. Bonus score is higher in HD+DT than FL but FL is very difficult in many AR7+ maps than HD+DT. Please play FL on AR7+ maps and think about why FL players are fewest in 4 modes.alienflybot wrote:
FlashLight (FL) - In my opinion this would be the mod that gives the least pp. FL tests player's memorization, which is just acting the same thing as No-Mod does, but with some black areas around the ryuuta. I think using FL just only need memorization, which should not worth that many pp.
About FL,I don't care,it's shit anyways.Oh well, I hate FL, too. But please, this is a discussion.
Notation used in this post:CLSW wrote:
I think setting the players' most frequency droplet misses as a point criteria is better.
Some maps are easy, but some maps (especially maps in 2008~2009s, http://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=6097&m=2)are hard to SS.
Users' frequency Percent of pp Droplet misses
50%(the most) 10% 3
20% 13% 2
10% 20% 1
2% 30% 0
Like this, If you can't understand I'm sorry for poor language.
Group Class Users' frequency Droplet Misses
F 10% 5
E 15% 4
D 30% 3
C 25% 2
B 15% 1
A 5% 0
Group Class Users' frequency Droplet Misses
E 10% 5
D 15% 4
C 30% 3
B 25% 2
A 20% 1
Group Class Users' frequency Droplet Misses
F 10% 5
E 15% 4
D 30% 3
C 25% 2
B 15% 1
A 5% 0
Group Class Users' frequency Droplet MissesGroup A would get BestPP = 100/1.01^1 = 99
E 10% 5
D 15% 4
C 30% 3
B 25% 2
A 20% 1
Group Class Users' frequency Droplet Misses
F 10% 5
E 15% 4
D 30% 3
C 25% 2
B 15% 1
A 5% 0
Group Class Users' frequency Droplet Misses
F 30% 5
E 40% 4
D 25% 3
C 4% 2
B 0% 1
A 1% 0
This formula just assumes there's a Maximum Droplet PP Contribution, which I called MaxPP. As for how is it calculated, I have no idea but, as I said in my post, it could be a percentage of the "accuracy" (considering this is something similar to tp!standard, with "Aim", "Speed" and "Accuracy")-Kurisu- wrote:
If I understand correctly you are calculating a maximum droplet pp contribution based on the map's difficulty. Then a player will get a higher fraction of that if it's more difficult to catch all of the droplets on that map.
Nope. My formula would asign MaxPP to all those PF SS. It would, however, be more fair with non SS scores: ppv1 gave a lot of PP to those SS and missing one or more droplets meant you got almost no pp. This formula gives pp almost to all players.-Kurisu- wrote:
Also that droplet contrib would have less weight if everyone easily catches all of the droplets? This would fix most of the PF SS farming maps on ctb I think.
If a maps has no droplets, then there should be no droplet pp contribution, as simple as that. As for any other case, the PP you get is strongly dependant on how do you compare with others players. For example, if there was a map with 1 droplet and you finished it missing that droplet, you could get 99 pp in the best case. If, in fact, everybody has missed that droplet, you'll get 99 pp ( 99*(1-0)^0.1 ). But if some players did catch that droplet, the pp you'd get will be punished by how many players did better than you. If only 10% of the players catched it, you'd get 97 pp (out of 100); if half the players catched it, you'd get 92 pp; if 90% of the players catched it (meaning you did really bad), you'd get 78 pp. So, the punishment is not that much.-Kurisu- wrote:
What about the possibility where the map has few/no droplets and is still difficult to FC (maybe these https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=119021&m=2, https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=92780&m=2)? Would that still punish a player too much if they FC but miss a droplet? Not sure if I'm misinterpreting your formula, if it accounts for this that would be great (I suck at math can anyone offer feedback also...)
Group Class Users' frequency Droplet Misses
D 10% 3
C 20% 2
B 40% 1
A 30% 0
Group Class Users' frequency Droplet Misses
D 10% 3
C 70% 2
B 15% 1
A 5% 0
Group Class Users' frequency Droplet Misses
H 5% 7
G 5% 6
F 10% 5
E 5% 4
D 10% 3
C 15% 2
B 20% 1
A 30% 0
Group Class Users' frequency Droplet Misses
H 5% 7
G 10% 6
F 15% 5
E 30% 4
D 20% 3
C 10% 2
B 5% 1
A 5% 0
Loctav wrote:
Please keep the discussion structured. If you are incapable to contribute in a constructive manner, your posts will be removed and penalities will be given out.
The penalty is harsh, but that formula isn't meant to apply to overall pp. If the system is going to work like tp, there should be some factors measuring beatmap difficulty (like "Aim", "Speed" and "Accuracy" in Standard) and then droplets could represent a % of, say, accuracy pp.Zak wrote:
Too much math for me, but it seems like there's way too harsh a penalty for droplet misses, you should really fix that as it seems like it won't be much better than ppv1...
isn't that near impossible to think about as it would take up to much time? to get the factors measuring a beatmap difficulty which i assume is done mostly by hand picking maps wouldn't really be that much of a viable option for some maps considering for some players some maps are harder than others, and getting a maplist like that for the "hardest maps" that require the most amount of skill would definitely require a intense amount of work the people working on pp for not only the ctb game mode but also the taiko and mania game mode too as all of those would also need their own high skill tier mapsets.ZiRoX wrote:
If the system is going to work like tp, there should be some factors measuring beatmap difficulty (like "Aim", "Speed" and "Accuracy" in Standard) and then droplets could represent a % of, say, accuracy pp.
How tp works for standard: http://osutp.net/info, the difficulty is calculated by an algorithm.Amir wrote:
isn't that near impossible to think about as it would take up to much time? to get the factors measuring a beatmap difficulty which i assume is done mostly by hand picking maps wouldn't really be that much of a viable option for some maps considering for some players some maps are harder than others, and getting a maplist like that for the "hardest maps" that require the most amount of skill would definitely require a intense amount of work the people working on pp for not only the ctb game mode but also the taiko and mania game mode too as all of those would also need their own high skill tier mapsets.ZiRoX wrote:
If the system is going to work like tp, there should be some factors measuring beatmap difficulty (like "Aim", "Speed" and "Accuracy" in Standard) and then droplets could represent a % of, say, accuracy pp.
Because especially with mods getting an SS is hard on some maps, so it should be rewarded. There are a lot maps where it is harder to get an SS than a good spin, just saying.Kurokami wrote:
Some players can miss a droplet but their spinner skills covering it and get more point than some SS record. Why they need to get fewer pp?