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Which is more important? Cursor movement or Streaming

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Total Posts
201

Cursor movement or Streaming?

Movement
366
70.11%
Streaming
156
29.89%
Total votes: 522
Topic Starter
-loli_Kona-
any ideas??? just wanted to know :P

edit:

Tanzklaue wrote:

(let's change streaming into "overall clicking abilities")
Tanzklaue
you are korean. you will get godlike eventually.

on a more serious note: they are equally important, both being one third (let's change streaming into "overall clicking abilities"), and the last one being accuracystuff.
buny
Movement requires more training whereas streaming is mostly just natural skill.
thelewa

buny wrote:

Movement requires more training whereas streaming is mostly just natural skill.
Bullshit.
Hika
You can easily learn how to stream properly. It's not a natural skill. I started learning how to stream under 175 BPM & realized that it wasn't too bad.
Also, movement is crucial to play the game in my personal opinion since not all the maps in the game have streams.
winber1
If you have movement accuracy, you can easily learn to stream, at a at least semi-decent speed. If you can stream with godlike speed and have no movement accuracy, you can't do shit.
Tanzklaue

winber1 wrote:

If you have movement accuracy, you can easily learn to stream, at a at least semi-decent speed. If you can stream with godlike speed and have no movement accuracy, you can't do shit.
my aiming recently got upgraded from "horrible" to "decent".

yay, I can hope again.
buny

thelewa wrote:

buny wrote:

Movement requires more training whereas streaming is mostly just natural skill.
Bullshit.
Movement hard tho

Hika wrote:

You can easily learn how to stream properly. It's not a natural skill. I started learning how to stream under 175 BPM & realized that it wasn't too bad.
Also, movement is crucial to play the game in my personal opinion since not all the maps in the game have streams.
There are people that can learn how to stream properly and there are people that can naturally stream better than top rank players.
I'm really only talking about stream speeds because while people that have played for years could only stream say 240bpm, people that could have just joined could stream 280bpm, whereas cursor movement is just ALL practice/training.
Tanzklaue

buny wrote:

Hika wrote:

You can easily learn how to stream properly. It's not a natural skill. I started learning how to stream under 175 BPM & realized that it wasn't too bad.
Also, movement is crucial to play the game in my personal opinion since not all the maps in the game have streams.
There are people that can learn how to stream properly and there are people that can naturally stream better than top rank players.
no, there are people who learn to stream, people who just spam and claim that they can stream, people who think clicking 5 1/4 notes means to stream the given BPM, people who use macros, and maybe >1% people who are just natural streaming talents (hello jesus).
buny

Tanzklaue wrote:

no, there are people who learn to stream
Those are the people who probably just started playing osu

people who just spam and claim that they can stream
in the end that's what streaming is, except in rhythm

people who think clicking 5 1/4 notes means to stream the given BPM
what does that have to do with anything?

people who use macros
same as above

maybe >1% people who are just natural streaming talents (hello jesus).
jesse also worked hard to get to where he is now
Well all we're doing is just comparing opinions here so there isn't really a right answer to it.
Wishy
Aim is harder and more important, if you miss then your play is no good, if you get somewhat bad acc@streams but still don't miss then your play is good.

Then again some streams are hard because of spacing.

Streaming CAN BE a natural talent, some people just have a better sense of rhythm/stronger fingers. Same can happen with aim though but I don't think it's that notorious.
Pacemaker
Ok. Apparently the different ideas of skill development are like religions on here..
makeamove

thelewa wrote:

buny wrote:

Movement requires more training whereas streaming is mostly just natural skill.
Bullshit.
Totally bullshit lol... everything is training unless you have some kind of bone/muscles/hands disorder lol
thelewa
Oh yeah, about stream speed. Just start working out or something, it's all about muscles. Nothing else, really.
buny
"mostly just natural skill"

Also better clicking abilities is meaningless if you can't support it with cursor movement, so basically this

winber1 wrote:

If you have movement accuracy, you can easily learn to stream, at a at least semi-decent speed. If you can stream with godlike speed and have no movement accuracy, you can't do shit.
Pacemaker

thelewa wrote:

Oh yeah, about stream speed. Just start working out or something, it's all about muscles. Nothing else, really.
Mashing your keyboard works best there, there's no real workout to those few muscles in your forearm you need for streaming.
Frizz
Personally I think cursor movement is the most important. But if you ask "which is more important to train first?" then I'll say streaming, or I prefer to say accuracy, is the most important. It'll help you in the long run.
Cho_old
Cursor movement > Fast streaming. Cusor movemenet == Accurate streaming.
silmarilen
people who are good at streaming will say movement is more important and people who are good at movement say streaming is more important
since i am good at movement (compared to streaming) i will say streaming is more important
JappyBabes

buny wrote:

"mostly just natural skill"
so the only reason you can pass freedom dive whereas I can't is because you had massive luck with your birth. man I am unlucky or what
Lance
Both.
Liut

silmarilen wrote:

people who are good at streaming will say movement is more important and people who are good at movement say streaming is more important
since i am good at movement (compared to streaming) i will say streaming is more important
what this guys said.
I lack streaming speed so bad but i'm decent in movements :? So i've always looked jelly the faster stramers :cry:
But i do think they are equally important.
jesse1412
You need aim for EVERY map whilst streaming only applies to some.

Either way I think they're both important. I find aim is harder to improve. Honestly there's no right answer, different people have different strengths.
Pettanko
You can always practice songs with both jumps and spaced streams if you want to improve at both simultaneously.
Frizz
What kind of streaming we're talking about here by the way. Endurance, speed, or accuracy?
Each of them has different priority for me.
winber1

silmarilen wrote:

people who are good at streaming will say movement is more important and people who are good at movement say streaming is more important
since i am good at movement (compared to streaming) i will say streaming is more important
but i suck at streaming :(
Aqo
*looks at poll results* Yeah no seriously guys what

Streaming/everything related to clicking on buttons is WAAAAAAY more important in this game than jumps. Being good at jumps won't get you anywhere. Jumps in this game are frigging free anyway... FCing Atama/Big Black/Sousei with relax is as easy as a walk in the park (which is almost as easy as CTB!). clicking on circles fast or with good accuracy is the real thing that takes a ton of experience and training. There is no natural skill in this. Gotta practice like mad
buny

JappyBabes wrote:

buny wrote:

"mostly just natural skill"
so the only reason you can pass freedom dive whereas I can't is because you had massive luck with your birth. man I am unlucky or what
Only if you can't stream 222bpm which isn't even what makes freedom dive hard in the first place

Aqo wrote:

*looks at poll results* Yeah no seriously guys what

Streaming/everything related to clicking on buttons is WAAAAAAY more important in this game than jumps. Being good at jumps won't get you anywhere. Jumps in this game are frigging free anyway... FCing Atama/Big Black/Sousei with relax is as easy as a walk in the park (which is almost as easy as CTB!). clicking on circles fast or with good accuracy is the real thing that takes a ton of experience and training. There is no natural skill in this. Gotta practice like mad
Being good at jumps will help you pass nearly every map without some ridiculous stream.
darkmiz

buny wrote:

Being good at jumps will help you pass nearly every map without some ridiculous stream.
Being good at streams will help you pass nearly every map without some ridiculous jumps.
ok. Both streaming and jumps are hard, but streaming is harder to train.
There is a thing called physical limitation.
Even after years of playing, some people cannot stream past bpm 180.
Jumps? Just buy a tablet and instant pro.
Pacemaker

darkmiz wrote:

buny wrote:

Even after years of playing, some people cannot stream past bpm 180.
Who's that lmfao? Physical limitation and development applies for every human equally, so that's obviously complete bullcrap.
Tanzklaue

Pacemaker wrote:

Who's that lmfao? Physical limitation and development applies for every human equally, so that's obviously complete bullcrap.
physicall limitation is completly different for every human. look at bodystatures, some people are to small to reach for something in 2 meter height.
buny

darkmiz wrote:

buny wrote:

Being good at jumps will help you pass nearly every map without some ridiculous stream.
Being good at streams will help you pass nearly every map without some ridiculous jumps.
ok. Both streaming and jumps are hard, but streaming is harder to train.
There is a thing called physical limitation.
Even after years of playing, some people cannot stream past bpm 180.
Jumps? Just buy a tablet and instant pro.
I agree but disagree with your first statement, unless you're treating 3/5 stack notes as streams.
Frizz

darkmiz wrote:

Even after years of playing, some people cannot stream past bpm 180.
Mind telling us who the examples are?

darkmiz wrote:

Jumps? Just buy a tablet and instant pro.
I used tablet once and I couldn't even pass osu!tutorial. Your argument is invalid.
threenash
I suck at streams. I always sucked at it anyway. Cursor movement is something you get sooner or later by practicing.
Tako
I can't even do 160 bpm streams D:
silmarilen

Frizz wrote:

darkmiz wrote:

Even after years of playing, some people cannot stream past bpm 180.
Mind telling us who the examples are?
untill a couple of months ago i couldnt even pass 185 bpm for more than 9ish notes
djjsixpack

Frizz wrote:

darkmiz wrote:

Even after years of playing, some people cannot stream past bpm 180.
Mind telling us who the examples are?

I still can't properly stream above 160 with over a year of playing. I can't keep up over 175ish at all.
Lance
I think this comes down to what level of play you are at. Once you get near the top streaming will be much more important since the hardest maps are typically high bpm. At the beginning, though, accurate cursor movement is key to getting better.
Aqo

buny wrote:

JappyBabes wrote:

so the only reason you can pass freedom dive whereas I can't is because you had massive luck with your birth. man I am unlucky or what
Only if you can't stream 222bpm which isn't even what makes freedom dive hard in the first place
What. Yes it is.
I can stream 220bpm for 10 notes. 215bpm for 20 notes. 205bpm for 50 notes. 185bpm for 100 notes.
The above is more or less true for the large part of people who play this game actively and are keyboard-only streamers - i.e. 200bpm short term, 180bpm long term. Being able to stream 220bpm long-term is literally something most players are not physically capable of.
Are you a wizard. How the hell do you stream this fast this long.
buny

Aqo wrote:

What. Yes it is.
I can stream 220bpm for 10 notes. 215bpm for 20 notes. 205bpm for 50 notes. 185bpm for 100 notes.
The above is more or less true for the large part of people who play this game actively and are keyboard-only streamers - i.e. 200bpm short term, 180bpm long term. Being able to stream 220bpm long-term is literally something most players are not physically capable of.
Are you a wizard. How the hell do you stream this fast this long.
If bpm was the bigger problem on freedom dive, there'd be a lot more no mod scores on it.
Wishy
This game is combo based, cursor movement relates to combo while streaming relates to accuracy. If your aim is good then you can FC lots of maps, then again you will probably fail at stuff like chipscape, but it's not like there are many maps like that. Then again if your aim is bad, even if you're a godlike streamer (see KeigoClear) you gonna have trouble with lots of maps, failing to FC even while getting top tier accuracy. Of course, other players gonna have a lot of trouble beating you, but then again you gonna go mad trying to FC any kind of hard map + mods since all of them end up requiring very good aim.

Both are important, but if I had to choose godlike aim or streaming, I'd get aim, no doubt. Remember how those most impressive scores you see from Niko, WW, Cookiezi and rrtyui are pretty much aim based. Even if their accuracy is great too, there are some other players that probably can get the same accuracy as them, but yet they can't do it because their aim is not good enough.

Freedom Dive is not hard because of 300 hit long 222 BPM streams, not at all, the stream practice version is way more exhausting and demanding than 4D, yet it is way easier to clear.
darkmiz
Even KeigoClear can't FC Freedom Dive, so I consider it a jump map.
Wishy
It's not really a jump map tho.
Aqo
Jump = snapping
Tracing streams = flow movement

it's not jumps. it's movement. there's a big difference.

how do you wizards stream this fast and this long. can you upload videos of your fingers or something
give me the ability to stream 222~230bpm kb-only without getting tired and I'll pass freedom dive every day
Wishy
Trust me when I tell you that you won't. It's harder than it looks. :(
kriers
it's so hard my mind melts and becomes mush even by trying to comprehend how hard it is
JappyBabes

Aqo wrote:

how do you wizards stream this fast and this long. can you upload videos of your fingers or something
give me the ability to stream 222~230bpm kb-only without getting tired and I'll pass freedom dive every day
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srhvQ5qv_LY
Easy
Aqo

JappyBabes wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srhvQ5qv_LY
Easy
how much does keigoclear-san's hand go for on e-bay?
Frizz
One of the most important key to stream >200bpm is to keep your fingers relaxed. Proven by myself and Gatyaa, I was able to FC 4/5 part of rog-unlimitation with good accuracy (>95% I think before combobreak) on rubberdome keyboard while Gatyaa himself was able to reach >700 combo in Mad Machine on laptop keyboard.

Both of us didn't tense up our fingers on streams.
thelewa
And absolutely everyone can do this?

Everyone?

Even me?
Zamura_old
personally god-awful at streams, so I truly envy people who are good at them (I'm one of the aforementioned people who after two years of playing still can't stream 170). However, I think that accurate cursor movement will get you further than stream speed given the new accuracy>difficulty way of ranking.
Frizz
Pretty sure everyone can. I'm actually not good at streams but I managed to be able to stream up to 220bpm (I was only able to stream around 180bpm-190bpm before). It depends on how one believes that they can actually push their own limit despite all the odds.
silmarilen

Zamura wrote:

personally god-awful at streams, so I truly envy people who are good at them (I'm one of the aforementioned people who after two years of playing still can't stream 170). However, I think that accurate cursor movement will get you further than stream speed given the new accuracy>difficulty way of ranking.
you have 12k playcount, no wonder you cant stream
MMzz
Playing with your fingers flat(?) and not curled helps me stream, less movement involved. I've pretty much adapted to always play like this. I picked it up while DTing maps in taiko, it boosted my speed and accuracy quite a bit.
Zamura_old

MMzz wrote:

Playing with your fingers flat(?) and not curled helps me stream, less movement involved. I've pretty much adapted to always play like this. I picked it up while DTing maps in taiko, it boosted my speed and accuracy quite a bit.
Thanks, I'll try that out

silmarilen wrote:

Zamura wrote:

personally god-awful at streams, so I truly envy people who are good at them (I'm one of the aforementioned people who after two years of playing still can't stream 170). However, I think that accurate cursor movement will get you further than stream speed given the new accuracy>difficulty way of ranking.
you have 12k playcount, no wonder you cant stream
Yes, I've seen on more than one occasion people mention the "magical" playcount number of 50-60k. I'm not really content to stay where I'm at skill-wise though, so I'm working towards it pretty actively these days, you'll notice my play history graph has increased significantly in the last two months (since we're checking profiles).
Liut

Frizz wrote:

Pretty sure everyone can. I'm actually not good at streams but I managed to be able to stream up to 220bpm (I was only able to stream around 180bpm-190bpm before). It depends on how one believes that they can actually push their own limit despite all the odds.
So Renard was not lying about the mindcontrol thing DDDDDDDDDDD:
silmarilen
ive noticed that i get the most skill increase when i get a very high monthly playcount. in the past 4 months ive probably improved as much as the whole year before it.
winber1
i improve when god wills me to improve.

recently, god hasn't really been too nice.
silmarilen
well. since god doesnt excist that means you will never get better
Aqo

silmarilen wrote:

well. since god doesnt excist that means you will never get better
what

are you saying cookiezi doesn't exist

I refuse to believe that. he's out there somewhere, watching us from above
winber1
fuck
PhiLL A
movement is more important, but streaming is more impressive
G0r
Why would you want to rank either of these as more important? They are both necessary skills to be an Osu! player.
kriers
A healthy way to maintain balanced skill: the weakest of the two is the most important.

Nothing about osu! is healthy, though.
Tanzklaue

kriers wrote:

A healthy way to maintain balanced skill: the weakest of the two is the most important.
what if you suck at both so much that you can't determine which is worse?
Laharl

MxG PhiLL wrote:

movement is more important, but streaming is more impressive
Is fine with me.
SteRRuM
movement, with movement you can basically play any map hdhr, with streaming... fc freedom dive?
YodaSnipe

kriers wrote:

A healthy way to maintain balanced skill: the weakest of the two is the most important.

Nothing about osu! is healthy, though.
LoGo
  Movement, why? i don't even understand how can you possibly train it when you barely move to all corners, aim just evolves too slow. But streaming... you can press the button all the time, all you need to improve, is raise bpm and stream length but what can you do to improve aim??? all you do is change god damn tablet area then start to reach corners and next day you wake up that speed boost to reach corners goes to nowhere and repeating that ends in completely unstable results...
  And saying play more jump maps, i think 99,9% of maps have them + there can be billion combinations how you need to move your hand/palm...
Can someone give me some advice what to play to improve snapping??(i think thats how its called) For example this http://osu.ppy.sh/s/20328 it's just impossible D:( i dont think that playing <- gonna improve someting i just can't move so far and it almost feels like i cant even read it D:)

Just look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRnezk_LIds like WTF am i doing...

Those who say streaming is harder to train, did someone even tried to train it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q8wos4fQBc
If someone needs it http://puu.sh/1lDo8
Doing this at least once a day(well not every day but you got what im saying...) gonna make you stream 200+ pretty fast...
Just press until you fail few times then when your fingers barely move take 1 min break and go again, you gonna see that you can hold a lot longer...
Liut

LoGo wrote:

Doing this at least once a day gonna make you stream 200+ pretty fast...
Just press until you fail few times then when your fingers barely move take 1 min break and go again, you gonna see that you can hold a lot longer...
ahahahhahahah no.
LoGo

Liutprando wrote:

LoGo wrote:

Doing this at least once a day gonna make you stream 200+ pretty fast...
Just press until you fail few times then when your fingers barely move take 1 min break and go again, you gonna see that you can hold a lot longer...
ahahahhahahah no.
ahahahhahahah yes.
Liut
i've been doing all the stream practice maps all the days since 2 months or more and all i achieved it's streaming a bit faster and still sucking at 20+ notes long streams.
And i'm sure i'm not the only one.
thelewa
Yeah I spend a couple of hours constantly grinding streams every day, doesn't really help me improve
kriers

Tanzklaue wrote:

kriers wrote:

A healthy way to maintain balanced skill: the weakest of the two is the most important.
what if you suck at both so much that you can't determine which is worse?
That makes both equally important. Go figure.
Pacemaker

thelewa wrote:

Yeah I spend a couple of hours constantly grinding streams every day, doesn't really help me improve
Improve? You have the stamina of a horse, what do you wanna improve at lol
silmarilen
speed
cirno-_old
Training on Shinsekai is great and all, but reading maps correctly is what will get you to pass stuff. There are some tricky 130BPM w/ 8 AR maps that I still can't FC. But there are plenty of 150BPM-160BPM maps I can FC my first try. Training like that will help you pass something like Banned Forever. But will it help with AR10? Will it help with jump maps like Rainbow Dash Likes Girls? Well maybe if it has sudden fast streams.

I guess it depends on what the person wants to get good at. There might be some guy who does nothing but streams just so he can one day stream 300+ BPM.
LoGo

Liutprando wrote:

i've been doing all the stream practice maps all the days since 2 months or more and all i achieved it's streaming a bit faster and still sucking at 20+ notes long streams.
And i'm sure i'm not the only one.
When i read this i was confused because it's just impossible but then i checked your profile... You are playing massive amount of normals or really short insanes and by looking here What do you expect? There's no game where playing casually will lead to insane skill...

thelewa wrote:

Yeah I spend a couple of hours constantly grinding streams every day, doesn't really help me improve
Well you have extreme accuracy + you can press ~220+(i believe that's the point when your speed increases really slow, well at least for me D:)

Question i have, those who stream 250+ kb only, don't you get pain after some time? D:(if i stream around that speed, hour or two is maximum without finger pain(bone/or whatever is causing pain)
GoldenWolf

LoGo wrote:

  Movement, why? i don't even understand how can you possibly train it when you barely move to all corners, aim just evolves too slow. But streaming... you can press the button all the time, all you need to improve, is raise bpm and stream length but what can you do to improve aim??? all you do is change god damn tablet area then start to reach corners and next day you wake up that speed boost to reach corners goes to nowhere and repeating that ends in completely unstable results...
  And saying play more jump maps, i think 99,9% of maps have them + there can be billion combinations how you need to move your hand/palm...
Can someone give me some advice what to play to improve snapping??(i think thats how its called) For example this http://osu.ppy.sh/s/20328 it's just impossible D:( i dont think that playing <- gonna improve someting i just can't move so far and it almost feels like i cant even read it D:)
What do you expect ? You're lefthanded but you hold your pen in your right hand (According to your userpage), there's no way you can have a good aim like that.
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