No ,,oO".
Reason was given.
Reason was given.
I know, cause sometimes even I thought that kind of thing would be suitable for the music, but we should know that this isn't an art.HakuNoKaemi wrote:
not permitting ...oO is like forcing a drummer to not use a Kick Drum after a normal tom or a Crash after some Hat..
This is a taiko drum.HakuNoKaemi wrote:
not permitting ...oO is like forcing a drummer to not use a Kick Drum after a normal tom or a Crash after some Hat..
mancusojuanmattos wrote:
If you have a Taiko Guest diff. the mapper must be in the Name of Difficulty?? Or is just an option? I didn't understood that
same.MMzz wrote:
This is a taiko drum.HakuNoKaemi wrote:
not permitting ...oO is like forcing a drummer to not use a Kick Drum after a normal tom or a Crash after some Hat..
Not a drum kit.
Carry-on
Heavily depends on songs, the reason for no 1/8 sliders because there're no relavent rhythm in the music, and I don't see why even slower songs would contain 1/8s. If they really exist there's no problem with the 1/8 slider._Gezo_ wrote:
Off-Finisher : The Drumrolls should not be used within this range of BPM : 100-125 (1/8s) but CAN be used in 65-100. I tried to play some LOW SPEED songs (in this range) and they can be hit easily.
It was about ticks, but yeah that thing might be calculated with bounds (500 - 1000 BPM 1/1 for ticks ?)wmfchris wrote:
Heavily depends on songs, the reason for no 1/8 sliders because there're no relavent rhythm in the music, and I don't see why even slower songs would contain 1/8s. If they really exist there's no problem with the 1/8 slider._Gezo_ wrote:
Off-Finisher : The Drumrolls should not be used within this range of BPM : 100-125 (1/8s) but CAN be used in 65-100. I tried to play some LOW SPEED songs (in this range) and they can be hit easily.
dubstep can be considered 70 bpm, and at that bpm there would be a lot of 1/8. Of course that would mean that 1/4 at 140 BPM would fit equally.wmfchris wrote:
Heavily depends on songs, the reason for no 1/8 sliders because there're no relavent rhythm in the music, and I don't see why even slower songs would contain 1/8s. If they really exist there's no problem with the 1/8 slider.
Fix'd_Gezo_ wrote:
About finishers on 1/4, I will say it once and for all : DON'TSPAMUSE THEM.
OnosakiHito wrote:
- Finish notes
Finish notes must not be in the middle or at the beginning in a 1/4 or above stream.
At the end, finish streams may allowed under following pattern constellations:
xxxxxxxxO, xxxxooooX, xxooxxooX
Small fix. You missed a word hereOnosakiHito wrote:
OnosakiHito wrote:
- Finish notes
Finish notes must not be in the middle or at the beginning in a 1/4 or above stream.
At the end, finish streams may be allowed under following pattern constellations:
xxxxxxxxO, xxxxooooX, xxooxxooX
I agree with this idea, and in the musical perspective that's reasonable, too._Gezo_ wrote:
at least 1 beat between the finisher and the next note
My bad, but I've been really busy..... Ok I admit, I'm lazy. I'll do that when I have time but I don't care if you get someone before I finish it. (Hmm, should I start to poke someone else?)OnosakiHito wrote:
한국어(korean) - XXX - ???
arken666
lepidopodus wrote:
In BPM change section......
I do agree.
----
I guess we can make this rules/guidelines active if there isn't any more objections of suggestions, but I want to stress that, this guidelines/rules should be changeable with nice reasons and enough discussions. We weren't that strict, right?
Also please be flexible when apply guidelines. (Well, rules cannot be broken before we change it.)
I would like to do so, but since I have exams in one week I need to wait for now.
Yes, we will be still flexbile and the rules are going to be changeable even on approved status. But maybe that's something I need to talk to the BAT's and peppy soon.
Well, we agree with the hitbursts part, that's just obvious. But why are we against custom hitsounds? Even the authentic games come with alternative hitsounds that you can choose in the options. In certain Taiko games there are missions where you have to use a specific hitsound set to pass a map. Is it not enough that dons should just generally be a lower tone than kats, which should have a higher tone?OnosakiHito wrote:
- Custom hitbursts and hitsounds
You must not use custom hitbursts and hitsounds.
Nuff said.those wrote:
Even the authentic games come with alternative hitsounds that you can choose in the options.OnosakiHito wrote:
- Custom hitbursts and hitsounds
You must not use custom hitbursts and hitsounds.
Yes it can!OnosakiHito wrote:
@ztrot: In case that overwriting the sounds is possible, it would be better to forbid it before people could abuse them, like for example spaming. - Modding can't avoid everytime such issues.
I didn't get this part at all.OnosakiHito wrote:
But the main reason is to keep everything uniformly since this isn't the Taiko-RPG game or osu! it self. If people really want to use custom sounds, they can look into this thread: p/780137
It is not about what the community decides, but what makes sense, remember your rules shouldn't be based off authenticity.OnoaskiHito wrote:
Also as I know the Taiko-Community it self is agains this use of sounds...?
That's why we had some problems with the osu! rules in the past and why it got into public dicussion, as I know. We don't need to make the same mistake in Taiko, that's why I, no... we consider the communitys voice. Especially because I'm not the Admin of Taiko, just a little announcer.Sakura wrote:
It is not about what the community decides, but what makes sense, remember your rules shouldn't be based off authenticity.
Tie this into mapping: "Oh, my map's good enough for bubble, so it's good enough for rank, and I'm going to reject suggestions that might make it better."OnosakiHito wrote:
And to be honest, I don't see why something should be changed that worked all the years smooth and well...?
You guys dont use custom hitsounds, that's understandable, and you can continue doing so, just dont enforce it into other mappersOnosakiHito wrote:
Better try to refute my and Loctavs other stronger arguments instead this one.
What you do is to compear pears with apples.
Also you and Sakura have two different opinions about authentic. If you guys really want to change something talk about it first together and give me then a solution, not questions or other stuff since you know that much about Taiko.
I feel really insulted. I can understand lepidopodus right now.
Why do you talk like you're a god? Also, don't talk like you know osu! or CtB, since all you seem to know is Taiko. I feel really insulted. We don't have to come together to give YOU a solution. The only thing I've done is generalize the problem. More people have more Taiko experience than you think.OnosakiHito wrote:
I feel really insulted. I can understand lepidopodus right now.
And why is there a problem with that? You're having an approach object reach its receptor; it's just in a different shape. In addition, I seem to recall a beatmap with hearts instead of circles, and there was no problem playing that.Luna wrote:
force-changing them would feel similar to changing hitcircles into hitsquares in osu! Standard imo
I present to you the prepared piano.Loctav wrote:
We are simulating and INSTRUMENT. It's like you start giving a piano guitar noises. Just quit it. You won't be able to make the taiko community agree.
Read p/1542056Loctav wrote:
Stop trying to change stuff that worked pretty well so far
You're saying Taiko isn't in need of more creativity. Why do you say that?Loctav wrote:
but this is Taiko
You say that as if you actually know more about how it works than the rest of us. Regardless of whether I feel insulted or not, the only thing you have against this is "We know better than you and we speak for everyone." That seems a little outrageous, considering the fact that we're the ones giving suggestions on possible improvement and you feel you're somehow in a position to reject all of it without giving valid reason.Loctav wrote:
And if you don't read everything and are unable to counter our arguments, then I can understand why Onosaki feels insulted.
Because you act as if your arguments weighted more than from guys who actually know how it works and especially why.
Just because you can't relate to playing a prepared piano, it doesn't mean that isn't the point of a piano. The piano has gone through hundreds and hundreds of years of changes and it just so happens that the post-modern era includes the prepared piano as an instrument.Loctav wrote:
I gave you valid reasons, btw. Just because you can't relate them, it doesn't mean they aren't valid at all.
I see I'm starting to get to you.Loctav wrote:
too high variety between the hitsoundings
Sorry Loctav, but you and Luna are taking this the wrong way, the hitsounds dont tell you what you press, nor how the notes look, they tell you what you hear when you hit them, the notes will still look red and blue, i don't see why this is bothering you so much, plus it's not like we would add guitar hitsounds but more like other possible drum hitsounds, because there are drum sounds in the world that arent just the default taiko ones.Loctav wrote:
but for Taiko, the hitsounds are essential, since they determine WHAT to press. So having a too high variety between the hitsoundings is ending in a huge mess.
Correct. For example, a dkddk pattern sounds like kick/snare/kick/kick/snare, or low/high/low/low/high. It's a matter of getting accustomed to the idea of a high/low sound as opposed to reacting to only the authentic don/kat sound.Loctav wrote:
Theoretically, the color tells you what to press, but practically you rely on the hitsounds to know when you change the pattern to play. You read the patterns but rely on the hitsounds to get it proper. Especially in Hidden mod, you rely even more on the hitsounds.
I already said that it's not the matter of authentic or not. It is matter of map-specific custom hitsound should be allowed.those wrote:
Correct. For example, a dkddk pattern sounds like kick/snare/kick/kick/snare, or low/high/low/low/high. It's a matter of getting accustomed to the idea of a high/low sound as opposed to reacting to only the authentic don/kat sound.
I explained why this is so irritating to Taiko players in previous post. I guess loctav already told similar thing.Sakura wrote:
[Sorry Loctav, but you and Luna are taking this the wrong way, the hitsounds dont tell you what you press, nor how the notes look, they tell you what you hear when you hit them, (...)
You're not reading my post, lepidon. I bolded the important part. And I didn't come here as a MAT; I came here as a Taiko player looking for improvements.lepidopodus wrote:
I already said that it's not the matter of authentic or not. It is matter of map-specific custom hitsound should be allowed.those wrote:
Correct. For example, a dkddk pattern sounds like kick/snare/kick/kick/snare, or low/high/low/low/high. It's a matter of getting accustomed to the idea of a high/low sound as opposed to reacting to only the authentic don/kat sound.
And please do not enforce us to get accustomed to things are not familiar with us? (BTW, was it that easy to do that?)
Huh, these MATs and BATs are always same, no matter it's past, present, future.
You either, you even had no contra words to other stuff we said.those wrote:
You're not reading my post, lepidon. I bolded the important part. And I didn't come here as a MAT; I came here as a Taiko player looking for improvements.
The only thing you effectively said was "We don't want change because it's good enough as it is." What more do you want me to say?OnosakiHito wrote:
You either, you even had no contra words to other stuff we said.
Being conservative isn't evil and changes does not lead to good future always. That is why we should cautious. If you want change something you need to state why changes should be done and check your idea get enough support, but generally you are just criticizing onosakihito's attitude.those wrote:
The only thing you effectively said was "We don't want change because it's good enough as it is." What more do you want me to say?
Hi Lu.[Luanny PhNyx] wrote:
Since mapping/playing is based on hitsounds and only two colors
those wrote:
Correct. For example, a dkddk pattern sounds like kick/snare/kick/kick/snare, or low/high/low/low/high. It's a matter of getting accustomed to the idea of a high/low sound as opposed to reacting to only the authentic don/kat sound.Loctav wrote:
Theoretically, the color tells you what to press, but practically you rely on the hitsounds to know when you change the pattern to play. You read the patterns but rely on the hitsounds to get it proper. Especially in Hidden mod, you rely even more on the hitsounds.
This is very true, as I use custom hitsounds sometimes for taiko, (When I'm playing metal songs and stuff, but never when I'm playing authentic or for ranking) . But like he said, forcing it in a mapset would just be cruel.MMzz wrote:
Noone is stopping you from useing your own custom hits on your own, but it shouldn't be forced.
I like this point, it's "taiko", not drum set, or guitar. Without the taiko hit-sounds, it's not taiko anymore. (In my opinion)Loctav wrote:
We are simulating and INSTRUMENT
Looks like a good idea to me. p/1278182peppy wrote:
Let me remind you that this isn't taiko no tatsujin; it is osu!. Just like the osu! game mode, it will not be authentic. osu! was not made to limit users to particular boundaries placed on mappers in other games. The idea of this thread is to try and agree on a mid-ground that allows for flexibility but keeps maps playable and fun.
I already stated how hitsound can be effect gameplay, and I already state just stating that high/low can be too subjective. You are just ignoring me.those wrote:
Hi Lu.
Taiko is not based on hitsounding at all, at the moment. Because there's no option to change to other hitsounds because of this rule that should not even exist, all you're doing is creating one object that represents don, and one object that represents kat, which happens to be the sounds like the one you use now. Whether these hitsounds you use are the authentic ones or not, don is just a representation of the lower tone (bass) and kat is just a representation of the higher tone.
lepidopodus wrote:
I already said to cling to TnT things weakens our reasoning, guys.
I agree. But ppy has said that he called it "taiko" because he couldn't think of a better name. He didn't choose it because he wanted it to be identical to "taiko no tatsujin".Sander-Don wrote:
I like this point, it's "taiko", not drum set, or guitar. Without the taiko hit-sounds, it's not taiko anymore. (In my opinion)
This is matter of allowing map-specific hitsound or not, not keeping it authentic or not. Did I said something like 'keep this cause this is authentic?' or something? And players are already use player-specific hitsound which is already far different from authentic TnT.Sakura wrote:
Lepi, wasnt you the one who said:
After all, the Taiko mode is similar to Taiko no Tatsujin and is a Taiko no Tatsujin simulatorthose wrote:
he called it "taiko" because he couldn't think of a better name.
The One who will be forced are the taiko players according to your suggestion.Sakura wrote:
If you guys dont want to map with custom hitsounds, fine by me, but dont force it on every mapper.
That can be really distracting to players generally. I already told you why. To simplify, players should react how hitsound sounds and every players have their own hitsounds to play and custom hitsounds can be really distracting for it. We think this is too much for player and that is why currently we are disallow it. I think we need to think about how players playing first, and I guess lots of Taiko mappers / players agree with that, at least I guess.Sakura wrote:
If you guys dont want to map with custom hitsounds, fine by me, but dont force it on every mapper.
You can relate this to the million of suggestions about forcing your own skin for osu! standard as well, why not make an osu! standard rule that says that you cannot use custom skin then since players dont like them?Loctav wrote:
The One who will be forced are the taiko players according to your suggestion.
Even without those hitsounds it would be fun and as you can see there is no agreedment yet.peppy wrote:
[...]The idea of this thread is to try and agree on a mid-ground that allows for flexibility but keeps maps playable and fun.
So now that we have this, what's wrong with using a bass drum as don and a snare drum as kat?OnosakiHito wrote:
@those: This map can be mapped on taiko because we have many, many styles, where one of it can fit to it perfectly. Also using sounds like e.g. konga wouldn't help at all since, as you said in the beginning, it should give a clear sound that represent ,,don" or ,,kat".
And the answer is, "there is nothing wrong". It's only you who is against it because you fail to see that change is possibly an improvement, even though there's enough space to fix errors if needed.OnosakiHito wrote:
@^: You may search the answer in this thread by yourself. I will not answer to this a 5th time for sure.
So, you must think there's something wrong with the music in the video. Lemme give it to you straight: there isn't.OnosakiHito wrote:
^@: Says the one who has tried to explain it to Loctav with a video.
I agree. But who is to say they won't sound just as good/better with alternate hitsounds?[Luanny PhNyx] wrote:
Also, dnb sounds awesome with taiko hitsounds, imo.
Which game?MMzz wrote:
This shouldn't even be up for discussion, the taiko drum sound is one of the main aspects/appeals to the game.
The arguments you guys are throwing out is the same arguments that osu!standard players throw out for a SB,Skin,BG toggle, yet we are not banning the use of those in standard mapping. The key point here isn't "Standard mapping" it's "Same arguments"peppy wrote:
Let me remind you that this isn't taiko no tatsujin; it is osu!.
Is that not what modding is for? "I mapped my song this way because I interpret it this way with its current position in space and time, so I reject any suggestion that can make it better."MMzz wrote:
This shouldn't even be up for discussion, the taiko drum sound is one of the main aspects/appeals to the game. And wanting to forcefully change that so your map can sound BETTER?
And so you think sticking to the default, authentic sounds will magically make it sound organized and better?MMzz wrote:
Even if we did do this it wouldn't work our very well, with the way people map we would have rediculous unorganized drum beats going around the whole map that have zero relation to the song. (Or whatever hitsound you choose to use) If you go and look at most ranked/approved Metal/Rock songs with a taiko map, and just try to imagine a snare on every kat, (or better yet go put some custom sounds in your taiko skin and see for yourself) You'll notice how unorganized and terrible it will sound. I can throw so many map examples at you it's not even funny.
( and no the modding process WILL NOT FIX THIS. )
Again, is this not modding is for?MMzz wrote:
For this to even work you would have to follow the drums to their exact point. And with the amount of mappers we have on the side of NOT haveing the use of custom hits, that will leave the new mappers to try and use custom sounds, and it will be awful really cause they have no idea what they are doing.
So, can you say that there is zero chance of another hitsound set that is capable of achieving the same freestyle beat and flow?MMzz wrote:
At least with the taiko sounds they blend to a point where you can freestyle around the song and you will almost always have a nice freestyle beat to the song. (If you know what you are doing of course)
I never said such a thing. I'm trying to point out that if people use custom hits it's just going to get WORSE.those wrote:
And so you think sticking to the default, authentic sounds will magically make it sound organized and better?
Modding taiko, that's a funny joke.those wrote:
Again, is this not modding is for?