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posted
My proposal applies to the "metadata" section of the ranking criteria.

I believe that all cuts/mixes of songs, official or unofficial, must have this fact specified somwhere which is visible in both osu!direct and the website's beatmap listing.

Why?

It seems to be a common occurence nowadays that songs are being mapped after being cut to a shorter length, whether that be official (a TV size beatmap) or an unofficial cut.

When looking at the beatmap listing either on the website or through osu!direct, the only information visible to the user is the artist, title, source, and some difficulty information. The problem here does not arise for official cuts, as in the ranking criteria it is stated that, for example, a TV-size beatmap should be specified as such in the title, however fan-made works are not included.

This means that many beatmap titles are misleading in that the information that it is a shorter version of a song is left out. Often players do not realise that this is the case until they have already finished playing the beatmap, much to their dismay. This also means that unofficially cut versions have become indistinguishable from full versions of the same song.

Some recent examples of this in ranked beatmaps:
https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/933600 (currently qualified) - this beatmap features an mp3 which is both different to the full length version of the song and the official short version of the song, which means that the metadata is quite misleading, in my opinion. Does this mean that you could cut a second off of the actual TV-size version of the song and use that as an excuse not to include "TV-size" in the title? Does this count as a remix of some kind?

https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/935111 - this beatmap is simply an unofficially cut version with no mention anywhere in the title or tags. As a result, the metadata is indistinguishable from the other ranked mapset which features the full, original version of the song.

(several ranked mapsets of "Harumachi Clover": https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets?q=harumachi%20clover - I seriously do not understand what is going on in this example. Some sets specify "TV-size", some do not, despite being the same length, or different lengths. The metadata here is a complete mess. If i download a map titled "Harumachi Clover (TV Size)", i expect to get a map of length 29 seconds. If i download a map titled "Harumachi Clover", I expect to get a map of length 4:10.

Some previous discussions of this topic have been held on r/osugame and can be found here, to mostly positive reception:
https://redd.it/b0h4k9 (excuse the language)
https://redd.it/bd67gj

edit:
My proposition is that any beatmap featuring an unofficial cut of a song should specify so in the title using the term "(Cut ver.)". Similarly, unofficial extensions of songs should specify "(Extended ver.)".

pishifat wrote:

If the song is shortened for reasons other than a remix, a cover, or an official cut, it should include (Short Ver.) at the end of its title. This is to clearly signify shortened songs from their full versions. Songs that are insignificantly shortened, songs that are shortened in ways that nearly match their original versions, and songs that are a full loop of a looping track are exempt.
After some discussion, it has become apparent that (Short ver.) is not the correct wording, at that we should use (Cut Ver.). Additionally, songs which have been extended either by slowing down portions of the song or looping portions of a song should be marked with (Extended Ver.), however this is something which is frowned upon in the Ranking Criteria as is:

Ranking Criteria wrote:

The audio file of a song should not be artificially extended in order to meet a time limitation in the beatmapset section of this criteria. This can include (but is not limited to) looping sections of the audio file, lowering the BPM of the song or section of the song, or adding small amounts of music to the song without incorporating it throughout the entire song. This does not apply to song compilations or audio files less than the minimum rankable beatmapset length.
Songs which have been rearranged entirely using different portions of the song in different places are considered a 'mix' or an 'edit'. The best wording is yet to be decided. The ruling now reads as follows:

Everyone wrote:

If the song is shortened for reasons other than a remix, a cover, or an official cut, it should include (Cut Ver.) at the end of its title. This is to clearly signify shortened songs from their full versions. Songs that are insignificantly shortened, songs that are shortened in ways that nearly match their original versions, and songs that are a full loop of a looping track are exempt. Songs which have been extended either through looping parts of the track or slowing down sections of the song should add (Extended Ver.) at the end of its title.
posted
this would be a pretty convenient implementation to the game
posted
I expect people will bring up the fact that mappers can just add 'cut version' or something similar to the tags (which some have already been doing) and that isn't really enough imo.

Surely editing the mp3 in this way constitutes it being a remix, meaning it would be perfectly fine to change the metadata to suit the changes - (cut ver.), (short ver.) or something to that effect
posted
i think necessitating it in tags (cut, shortened, etc), and in description is a minimum standard that should be applied . aside from that i think putting it in title would be fine too but others may have different opinions.
posted

Nao Tomori wrote:

i think necessitating it in tags (cut, shortened, etc), and in description is a minimum standard that should be applied . aside from that i think putting it in title would be fine too but others may have different opinions.
as an absolute minimum sure but the bigger problem can be seen here:


this information needs to be in the title
posted

helix wrote:

I expect people will bring up the fact that mappers can just add 'cut version' or something similar to the tags (which some have already been doing) and that isn't really enough imo.

Surely editing the mp3 in this way constitutes it being a remix, meaning it would be perfectly fine to change the metadata to suit the changes - (cut ver.), (short ver.) or something to that effect
While under the ranking criteria, if you boil the meaning of a remix down, it could be argued that a cut version is just a remix, but I don't think that it would be an accurate description as to what has been changed.

To me, a remix takes an existing song and alters it to create a new piece of music, and I wouldn't describe a song that has been remixed to remove parts of a song as a remix.

For example, if we take three map sets of Gold Dust:
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/96006 - DJ Fresh - Gold Dust by galvenize
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/163897 - DJ Fresh - Gold Dust (Sonic Entropy Remix) by galvenize
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1963417 - DJ Fresh - Gold Dust by Sotarks

The first two use the correct titles for their versions of the song.
The third version, on the other hand, uses the same title as the full version of the song despite being cut down nor has it been remixed by the mapper in any way to add a new creative take on the song.

While the wording of an addition to the title could take form in several different ways (Cut, Edited, Alternative/Alt, Shortened/Short) the lack of anything is frustrating as it doesn't clearly describe what the song is.
posted
Definitely agree that if something is cut, at the very least include it in tags. (Cut, short, etc) but it would also be nice if (Short Ver.) or (Cut Ver.) was also included in the title field. Although, I feel like this would be weird to force onto many songs since people would be required to check if there was a longer version than whatever was mapped (From a modding PoV) and it would also require a definition as to what is cut/remixed/whatever depending on the criteria of the marker.

While I think the idea is good, making a mandatory marker just seems confusing as to what is genuinely cut or not.
posted

eiri- wrote:

Definitely agree that if something is cut, at the very least include it in tags. (Cut, short, etc)
Tags are not shown on osu!direct, nor the beatmap listing or the song selection screen. I would say this is the main issue this thread is trying to combat.

eiri- wrote:

Although, I feel like this would be weird to force onto many songs since people would be required to check if there was a longer version than whatever was mapped (From a modding PoV)
When the mapper provides the metadata for verification during the ranking process, it should be clear whether the version they have mapped is an official mp3 or not. I'm sure checking this would take no more than one minute.

eiri- wrote:

and it would also require a definition as to what is cut/remixed/whatever depending on the criteria of the marker.
Seems pretty simple to me - if it's not one of the officially released lengths of the song (usually either full size or tv-size/short ver) then it is going to be a cut version of some description.
posted
I realise at the moment that an official consensus on what the convention should be for the phrasing of the metadata for a fan-made cut version of a song has not been discussed.

May I suggest, if this information is to go in the title, for the phrasing to be "Shortened ver."? It implies that it is unofficial as opposed to just saying "Short ver." and gets the message across nicely.

Anyone else?
posted
I doubt most people would notice the difference between Short Ver and Shortened Ver. Another issue is that the title field DOES have a limit and making required additions to a title too long can go over the limit in some cases (81 characters) so it's best to keep such things concise while still being clear.

(Cut Ver.) could work well enough.
It's modifying the metadata to the same extent the song is being modified, and if users feel like it'd be beneficial to browsing maps as expressed in the reddit threads.. then yeah. Sounds ok.

The main issues are as eiri- has written but shouldn't be too big of a concern for most cases as song length is usually easily identified when finding metadata. Also https://osu.ppy.sh/community/forums/topics/917229 will probably need defining of what is or isn't considered a cut too, so this and that thread go hand in hand.


Also, about harumachi clover example listed. This case is because it is currently impossible to retroactively change map metadata.
TV Size harumachi clovers ranked after last year's metadata changes have the standardized tags, while those from before the rule changes do not. Maps ranked before a (Cut Ver.) rule is added would still not have the label, unless osu's set-up changes in a way to make those changes possible after rank.
posted

Noffy wrote:

Also, about harumachi clover example listed. This case is because it is currently impossible to retroactively change map metadata.
TV Size harumachi clovers ranked after last year's metadata changes have the standardized tags, while those from before the rule changes do not. Maps ranked before a (Cut Ver.) rule is added would still not have the label, unless osu's set-up changes in a way to make those changes possible after rank.
Thanks for the clarification, I didn't know about last year's change. Of course I'm not concerned with past maps not being updated, that has been a fact in all of osu!'s history that previously ranked maps cannot be altered.

"(Cut ver.)" is an even better suggestion then if we're worrying about title length. Thanks! It still gets the same message across, in my opinion.
posted

Noffy wrote:

The main issues are as eiri- has written but shouldn't be too big of a concern for most cases as song length is usually easily identified when finding metadata. Also https://osu.ppy.sh/community/forums/topics/917229 will probably need defining of what is or isn't considered a cut too, so this and that thread go hand in hand.
Just thought I'd add something and reply to this bit - I feel that a cut would be defined as a version of a song that is not already an official release (such as full version, tv size, or cut version from a video game with official metadata). It's already pretty obvious from the rest of the thread why the alternative is a problem so I won't go on :P
posted
Taking your guys' advice into consideration I've edited the OP to more consisely phrase my proposition. Hopefully it's ready!
posted
i don't have much opinion on this proposal, so i'm gonna run it by all bn/nat members to see what they think. hopefully we'll be able to reach a conclusion in a few days
posted
Don’t think it’s necessary to be included into the title (tags would be fine) but not opposed to it if it happens
posted
I would agree with Nao, using tags to inform about if it’s cut or not + description should be enough to not mess too much with the current metadata system.
posted
to be clear i also think putting it in title is good
posted
I don't think it's super convenient to have a rule that says like "oh you must use (Short Ver.) if a song has it in it's title" but then add (Cut Ver.) just to mess things up for the ppl checking it. If anything, a way to merge those two would be better than just adding one more marker. I don't think being an official cut or not is that benefitial to know from a player's perspective, as in the end they are trying to show something extremely similar
posted

Trynna wrote:

I don't think it's super convenient to have a rule that says like "oh you must use (Short Ver.) if a song has it in it's title" but then add (Cut Ver.) just to mess things up for the ppl checking it. If anything, a way to merge those two would be better than just adding one more marker. I don't think being an official cut or not is that benefitial to know from a player's perspective, as in the end they are trying to show something extremely similar
if implemented, the merged marker described here is how i'd do it
posted

Nozhomi wrote:

I would agree with Nao, using tags to inform about if it’s cut or not + description should be enough to not mess too much with the current metadata system.
The point of my proposal is to have the information in the title though, to avoid this:


I don't see what good putting it in the tags will do. It doesn't address the issue at all.
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