I am sick and tired of seeing so many speedranks. They have always been a thorn in my eye. I am aware that many popular mappers obviously release high-quality maps on a regular base. And because people are aware of it, those maps often get ranked within a week or even shorter. Of course, it's impossible to control something like this, but it still doesn't change the fact that a map of equivalent quality has to wait indefinitely longer because the mapper is less popular.

Speedranking can also cause a lot of trouble for both players and mappers. It doesn't allow for a lot of people to check it and make suggestions to improve the quality of even a seemingly flawless map. This is just like wine. It needs time to be good!

Now, here is what I am suggesting.

We need a new rule specially designed to eliminate the problem at hand.
The solution I thought of is rather simple. All that needs to be done is to add a timelimit before a bubble or rank can be handed out.
I was thinking of making that timelimit no shorter than 2 weeks, this will give people time to find and check the map out and make suggestions on how to improve it further before every single available MAT or BAT out there jumps out and bubbles/ranks it. The longer the mapper has to wait the better it is.

This will, in my opinion, highly increase the chance of having to unneccesary unrank a map because some critical flaws have not been found or were previously ignored, and it will make the world of osu! for mappers a little bit more fair.

Additionaly, I was thinking of adding a maximum number of kuduso stars that can be shot to a map by everyone else but the mapper.
By doing this, it will be harder for a bubbled map to reach first page and thus, slow down the process of ranking overly hyped maps.
It is, in the first place, already some form of "abuse" if a single person can shoot unlimited stars to whatever map there is.

A single person should not be able to shoot more than 3-5 stars to a map. This directly works hand-in-hand with my previouly mentioned timelimit for ranking maps because this way, for a map to be popular you either need to have multiple people shoot stars to your map, or you have to work for your maps' popularity by mapping other maps yourself.


And yes, I am serious. So please take this idea seriously, too.

I do agree with most points Tenshi-nyan has mentioned. It does happens often.
Also this wouldn't be bad for Taiko mappers to have a bit more time to improve there diffs as well, or to find at least more mods.
There were some issues in the last days/weeks before, this could prevent it.

This is unnecessary. The staff is currently working on modding by priority.
Also, there should be no limit to the number of stars you can give to a map. One earns kd by modding, and it is then up to that person to do whatever s/he wants with them.
Be assured, however, we will try to do what we can to minimize the number of necessary unranks.

First of all they arent speed ranks, they are "flawless maps" if a map gets ranked so fast and still has flaws then it's on the MAT/BAT that Bubbled/Ranked it, and will most probably get unranked so it can get fixed.

Also if your maps are getting ignored just increase the map's SP, there's plenty of ways to increase it, by kudosu, mod posts, or even your own bubble going pop from a MAT/BAT mod.

those wrote:

Also, there should be no limit to the number of stars you can give to a map. One earns kd by modding, and it is then up to that person to do whatever s/he wants with them.

Are those words really yours, or just the words from peppy? I mean, it is right that the mapper should be able with his own kudosu to star his map, but there should be at least a border since this dosen't really show the quality of the map? I mean, wasn't the the star priority there, to show the quality of a map? Or just to move it up, so BAT's can recognize it faster? Because I would see 10 stars from Mapper A just as one star, since it is just one person.

(Well, the new modding-star system has been implemented, so whatever)

EDIT: Oh, Sakura has answered one of my questions before. hehe

^
peppy did say it.

SP is to show how much attention a map needs, it's unrelated to quality, hence the "higher SP, higher chance of it being looked at." There's also no guarantee a map that has been longer in pending will be of higher quality either, you cant tell from the point of upload, to the point of ranked (or the actual date) how much has that map been taken care of to begin with, i've seen maps that "take 8 months" but only have the mapper active for like 5 days every 2 months.

those wrote:

This is unnecessary. The staff is currently working on modding by priority.

I don't agree. The staff should not solely focus on the amount of stars someone spammed to a map.
Take a look at those maps:


Those maps have not received a single response since MONTHS only because their priority is lower. And they are all bubbled. How can that be just?

NoHitter wrote:

^
peppy did say it.

I said it's OK if the mapper himself shoots the stars to his own map. But I think it's not OK if anybody else can shoot like 20 stars to some random map to make it ultra popular.

OnosakiHito wrote:

those wrote:

Also, there should be no limit to the number of stars you can give to a map. One earns kd by modding, and it is then up to that person to do whatever s/he wants with them.

Are those words really yours, or just the words from peppy?

If you give me a map with +80 I'll prioritize modding it, regardless of quality. I mean, that's what modding is for. Throwing a high priority map at the modding teams means "Please look at me"; it doesn't necessarily mean "Please look at me, I'm really good".

those wrote:

If you give me a map with +80 I'll prioritize modding it, regardless of quality. I mean, that's what modding is for. Throwing a high priority map at the modding teams means "Please look at me"; it doesn't necessarily mean "Please look at me, I'm really good".

Mh, I understand. Valid reason.
But it depends on if it is bubbled or not, right? Since a bubbled 12 star map has allready higher priority then a 80 star map.

If you want this map to get attention then shoot a star in it's direction.

If you really think those bubbled maps should be looked at by a BAT, then what are you waiting for standing there doing nothing instead of throwing stars at them?

Also now SP required for Rank/Bubble is 12, if a map has lower than this ammount and the BAT needs to use an icon they'll have to spend their own kudosu doing so, so these maps wont have much of a chance of they even being peeked at.

And then tell me what magical machine should i use to discover a map's quality just from the thread's name?

OnosakiHito wrote:

But it depends on if it is bubbled or not, right? Since a bubbled 12 star map has allready higher priority then a 80 star map.

I don't have a specific ratio that puts bubbles ahead of stars/non-bubbles. Though, if it's 12 and bubbled then either one of the MAT members is doing something wrong, or the map really needs more stars.

Tenshi-nyan wrote:

Those maps have not received a single response since MONTHS only because their priority is lower. And they are all bubbled. How can that be just?

What's your argument, exactly? I'm not too sure what you're trying to bring up.

those wrote:

Tenshi-nyan wrote:

Those maps have not received a single response since MONTHS only because their priority is lower. And they are all bubbled. How can that be just?

What's your argument, exactly? I'm not too sure what you're trying to bring up.

I'm trying to explain here that it is not fair that there are maps which can be ranked within 5 days after being submitted while there is already a high number of maps ready to be ranked, sitting around there because nobody gives a damn about them.

You know, this could be avoided if time would be added as a factor of priority - the longer a bubbled map has to wait the more it's priority will increase.

Please do not forget about the 2 week minimum time a map has to be in pending before it can be bubbled or ranked.
I did not quite intend this thread to turn into a discussion of the purpose of star priority. This is a matter of fairness.

Tenshi-nyan wrote:

You know, this could be avoided if time would be added as a factor of priority - the longer a bubbled map has to wait the more it's priority will increase.

Please do not forget about the 2 week minimum time a map has to be in pending before it can be bubbled or ranked.
I did not quite intend this thread to turn into a discussion of the purpose of star priority. This is a matter of fairness.

So, forcing us not to mod 3 day old maps will magically force us to mod low priority bubbles, even with the amount of high priority stuff out there? I don't think this makes a lot of sense.

Usually, speedranks don't have too many stars to say "Yeah, mod me and rank me".

2 Examples.

t/84715
t/83025

Yeah

No, setting a time limit will just slow the whole process down and is counter productive.

Sakura wrote:

No, setting a time limit will just slow the whole process down and is counter productive.

It will only shift your focus to rank older maps.

xsrsbsns wrote:

It will only shift your focus to rank older maps.

But that's not the point. It will only shift focus to rank other maps with higher priority, while older is already a given.

those wrote:

xsrsbsns wrote:

It will only shift your focus to rank older maps.

But that's not the point. It will only shift focus to rank other maps with higher priority, while older is already a given.

like thats ever going to happen

xsrsbsns wrote:

Sakura wrote:

No, setting a time limit will just slow the whole process down and is counter productive.

It will only shift your focus to rank older maps.

Actually, it would just cause the people in question to wait until the day the time limit's up to ask a MAT to check their map. It really wouldn't change much.

I agree on most of this.

I doubt that two weeks is enough time for the proper modders to suggest alterations to a beatmap. Remember there are patterns that aren't technically flawed, but just not as good as other patterns. If there isn't enough time for modders who actually know how to make a good suggestion to post and reply, then that beatmap could very well go through the ranking process with patterns that could be better than they are.

We are trusting that a MAT, and a single BAT have the knowledge and expertise at critiquing that they can safely say that a beatmap could not be made any better. We cannot guarantee that stars are any indication that the beatmap has been properly modded, so rushing through the ranking process should be even more of a non-option. I know that even XATs make mistakes and I know some MATs don't speak their mind as much as they should. I don't think a map should be bubbled unless it has been properly checked over by a minimum number of people that have experience in modding maps. Or we should at least limit being able to bubble unless x number of unique players have stared the map, so that self-priroritizing will have less of an pronounced effect on actual priority based on quality.

It's still a flawed system though.

Sakura wrote:

No, setting a time limit will just slow the whole process down and is counter productive.

Maybe I'm wrong, but this is not about the productivity. This is about the quality of the maps.

Kurokami wrote:

Sakura wrote:

No, setting a time limit will just slow the whole process down and is counter productive.

Maybe I'm wrong, but this is not about the productivity. This is about the quality of the maps.

Not really, i have 2 maps in the graveyard that i mapped 2 years ago, if i revived them, would you say that their quality is higher than a 2 week old map?

those and Ekaru have already explained why this wont work, a mapper could very well sit 2 weeks doing nothing and there wouldnt be any difference than looking for mods since day 1 and getting it ranked in less than 2 weeks.

TheVileOne wrote:

I agree on most of this.

I doubt that two weeks is enough time for the proper modders to suggest alterations to a beatmap. Remember there are patterns that aren't technically flawed, but just not as good as other patterns. If there isn't enough time for modders who actually know how to make a good suggestion to post and reply, then that beatmap could very well go through the ranking process with patterns that could be better than they are.

We are trusting that a MAT, and a single BAT have the knowledge and expertise at critiquing that they can safely say that a beatmap could not be made any better. We cannot guarantee that stars are any indication that the beatmap has been properly modded, so rushing through the ranking process should be even more of a non-option. I know that even XATs make mistakes and I know some MATs don't speak their mind as much as they should. I don't think a map should be bubbled unless it has been properly checked over by a minimum number of people that have experience in modding maps. Or we should at least limit being able to bubble unless x number of unique players have stared the map, so that self-priroritizing will have less of an pronounced effect on actual priority based on quality.

It's still a flawed system though.

This is a good idea. Additionally to the minimum required time, there should be a minimum number of mods required before a map can be bubbled.

Sakura wrote:

Not really, i have 2 maps in the graveyard that i mapped 2 years ago, if i revived them, would you say that their quality is higher than a 2 week old map?

Those maps aren't finished, so they wouldn't even qualify. A map needs to be completed and in pending for the new rule to apply.

And how do you tell?

Edit: How do you tell since when it was completed and in pending i mean, if the thread is revived, there would be no evidence of it ever going to the graveyard.

Sakura wrote:

Not really, i have 2 maps in the graveyard that i mapped 2 years ago, if i revived them, would you say that their quality is higher than a 2 week old map?

those and Ekaru have already explained why this wont work, a mapper could very well sit 2 weeks doing nothing and there wouldnt be any difference than looking for mods since day 1 and getting it ranked in less than 2 weeks.

If you mean these 2
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/15546
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/14675
You don't even care about them. They just got a few mod and nothing else.
I'm not on the same side with the time limit. I'm on the side of a maps with good quality. Time limit is good as long as the mapper is get mods but when they are just sitting and waiting for the time limit to be over, meh...
If the addable SP get a limit to 1 then the mapper must wait until his/her maps get more mods/SP, this way the time limit will be unnecessary since when the map is already has +12 SP, possible the map is already 2 weeks old.

Actually i meant this: http://osu.ppy.sh/s/15408 and http://osu.ppy.sh/s/16392 this =P

Oh boy this shit thread again.

I've been here for 3-4 years, you're wasting your time, nothing will change. You either suck-up to the BATs, or make sure you make some damn good maps.

Setting a "time-limit" for maps to get ranked is silly, what's the point in keeping a map in pending if it's already finished/modded and ready to get ranked?

Sakura wrote:

And how do you tell?

Edit: How do you tell since when it was completed and in pending i mean, if the thread is revived, there would be no evidence of it ever going to the graveyard.

Well, it would be problematic if you have a lying mapper at your hands. I for one, only put my maps into the Pending forum if they're 100% complete.
I guess you'd have no choice but to trust the mapper on that question.

Ranking is not a process to please an individual mapper for his work and pat his shoulder. Ranking bears relevance to the whole community and is partially driven by it, maps with more relevance (higher priority) should be ranked first, since they got a larger effect on the community than a map that maybe only pleases the mapper him-/herself.

Furthermore you can push your map to have high priority either by spending your own kudosu, or now as well by getting mods on your map. Time should never be relevant to a map since completely fresh maps can be as good as 1 year old maps.

@Sakura http://osu.ppy.sh/s/16392 Same what I stated above. The other one is good enough.

Gabi wrote:

Setting a "time-limit" for maps to get ranked is silly, what's the point in keeping a map in pending if it's already finished/modded and ready to get ranked?

I have some experience with this and now i don't want to say anything about it.

Gabi wrote:

Setting a "time-limit" for maps to get ranked is silly, what's the point in keeping a map in pending if it's already finished/modded and ready to get ranked?

That's quite true, but you're not looking at the big picture. The point is, there are tons of other such old maps in pending that aren't given attention. So why?

That said, a map is never considered 'finished modding' anyway since there will always be room for improvement. The increase in pending time would allow for more chances of modding.

xsrsbsns wrote:

That said, a map is never considered 'finished modding' anyway since there will always be room for improvement. The increase in pending time would allow for more chances of modding.

Wishful thinking, but very few people randomly mod maps that nobody is asking to be modded.

@Ekaru
If the people in question really don't care about their maps, it's their loss.
The other part of the deal still stands, which is the attention of older maps.

With the latest introduction to maps that they now automatically get a star upon receiving a mod (which I heard about just today), I have a new idea.

When we reform the star priority system so that only the amount of mods a map has received is going to count, it is going to make the kuduso system obsolete.

However, this way, it will truly reflect the actual popularity of a map in the community. If you like a map and want it to be ranked faster, the only way to increase the priority is to actually mod the map. To not make kudosu absolutely worthless, you can shoot a limited number of stars upon receiving kudosu from the mapper. The mapper himself will be able to shoot a limited number of stars to his own map, too. I was thinking about limiting the number a modder can give out is 2, so that in combination with the mod, you will only be able to shoot 3 stars. The mapper himself will be limited to 3, too.

In order to make this work as a Anti-Speedranking rule, the timelimit definitely is necessary. The minimum number of stars needed to receive a bubble has already been increased to 12, so if you ask a whole bunch of people to mod your map, those 12 stars can be reached quickly. In order to eliminate this, the timelimit will come in effect. Technically, you will need at least 3 modders, each giving you 2 additional stars and your own 3 stars to reach 12 total stars.

Also, in order to increase the priority of old, bubbled maps, a bubbled map will receive a star (or two) for every week it has the bubble icon.

xsrsbsns wrote:

That's quite true, but you're not looking at the big picture. The point is, there are tons of other such old maps in pending that aren't given attention. So why?

These maps will not get attention even if they would introduce a time limit, so what exactly will we achieve by doing this? BATs rarely mod maps by star prior, let alone random maps.

After all this, i've been curious, what is you guys' definition of "speedranking" to me is getting a map from pending to ranked in a quick ammount of time in a rushy/reckless way, this can happen at anytime regardless of the age of the map.

If you think "speedranking" is getting a map ranked in less than -Insert Time Frame here- then you're mistaken.

If a map is good, and someone has the ability to find the modders neccessary to speedrank it, then there shouldn't really be a problem.

The reason maps get speedranked is that the mapper is known as a mapper that knows what (s)he is doing. For instance, when I send people my map to mod, I've built up a reputation as a mapper who doesn't know what he's doing, so many people will just ignore me. Now if I were to tag a big "ztrot" or "DJPop" name on it, I'd get a bunch of mods. Because, you know, they're good maps. Good maps that people will enjoy and should be ranked. People are also inherently lazy, so they'd rather mod a map from someone that they know will probably be really good rather then a map that will require a giant mod post.

The only problem I have with speedranking is if the map actually isn't very good. What people assume when they want to say "STOP SPEEDRANKING" is that they want really skilled mappers to make a great map, and then stare at a brick wall, and then get their stuff ranked.

osu! is a game, and the sad truth is, not everyone is going to get their maps ranked evenly. Hell, I've been working on Listen!! for 1.5 years, and it's not even close to being ranked atm. But that's because it still have its issues. Every mod post I get will say stuff that I find relevant to change. I very rarely get a "this map is good, star~" post, because the map just isn't top quality. osu! should have the best of the best maps ranked, and if that means that it all comes from a few people, then that's how it is.

The way I see a map's rankability is if

A) The map plays well
B) I can find no technical problems
C) If it's fitting to ranking criteria

if a map fits that in 5 days, 5 weeks, or 5 months, it doesn't neccesarily matter. Everyone is at a different skill level, and can produce quality maps at a different rate. There shouldn't be a limitation to how fast a map gets ranked as long as its a quality map. If there's unrankable crap there, then that's when it starts sucking.

I literally just woke up, so sorry if this argument isn't formatted the very best.

Starrodkirby86 wrote:

What's the importance of a speedrank? Does it matter to one that a map must get ranked? A map is remembered for its quality, not for how fast it goes in and out of Pending.

SpeedRank

i dont care... speed rank....
just let they make their own game...
if you are pro mapper...
your graveyard... must be creepy...
with graveyarded maps...

let peoples being sad...
because your map being ignored and died...
your map...
is awesome...
because not speedranked...

-end-

this shitty poem by : zeroclover , request from my friend
dont ban me

if you want get priority for your maps, u can ask someone for mods
but star priority not ensure your map will be ranked fast, you need some black magic ritual and entering to dark side room of ******

I understand Tenshi's view, but we can't set a rule just because people makes Maps which are ready and are rankable.
Even when I hate this for myself (because I hate it when people get something ranked in less than three Weeks), this would be unfair more or less.

I just hate when one map is get ranked, I play it, get fc below 5 tries, then the map is become unranked, because someone find problems with it. I think it better if these problems are actually be corrected before the ranked status, not after. If the modders are really able to speedrank a map, then they are must find these kind of mistakes.

I don't care about the speedrank thingy as long as the map is stay ranked after it became ranked.

Tenshi-nyan wrote:

With the latest introduction to maps that they now automatically get a star upon receiving a mod (which I heard about just today), I have a new idea.

When we reform the star priority system so that only the amount of mods a map has received is going to count, it is going to make the kuduso system obsolete.

Agree with this one.

Tenshi-nyan wrote:

With the latest introduction to maps that they now automatically get a star upon receiving a mod (which I heard about just today), I have a new idea.

When we reform the star priority system so that only the amount of mods a map has received is going to count, it is going to make the kuduso system obsolete.

why would people mod then?
Only the people who want the map ranked. You achieve nothing then for modding?
Why would i waste my time with anything then?
yeahyeah m4m ... but who tells me that the mod helps me? If I mod i get at least a Star so even if the other one fails i won something.
Newbie mappers have it even harder then for getting their map ranked.

Kurokami wrote:

I just hate when one map is get ranked, I play it, get fc below 5 tries, then the map is become unranked, because someone find problems with it. I think it better if these problems are actually be corrected before the ranked status, not after. If the modders are really able to speedrank a map, then they are must find these kind of mistakes.

I don't care about the speedrank thingy as long as the map is stay ranked after it became ranked.

This, this, and this.

If you're going to speedrank, then at least make sure the map is 100% rankable before ranking it. If that's accomplished then I don't really have any problems with it. On the other hand, if your maps consistently get unranked after they get speedranked, then that's a sign that you're doing it wrong.

I guess we can all agree that setting a time limit isn't the way to go, and we can pretty much discuss anything else in another thread probably in another forum.

Dangaard wrote:

Ranking is not a process to please an individual mapper for his work and pat his shoulder. Ranking bears relevance to the whole community and is partially driven by it, maps with more relevance (higher priority) should be ranked first, since they got a larger effect on the community than a map that maybe only pleases the mapper him-/herself.

highly disagree with this, the relevance of the same mappers maps again and again isn't higher than the relevance of little gems.
I see the same names in the ranked maps over and over again, and the maps play 90% the same. only because they have a high star priority doesn't mean that the community likes this map, atleast not if one person can shoot 20 stars on a map, therefore it shows the opinion of one person, not of the community as a whole. since 95% of the community doesn't even have kudosus, you can only represent the opinion of the remaining 5% of the community with the SP.

long story short: the community doesn't want the map with the highest SP, it wants the highest variety of maps from different mappers possible. this cannot be accomplished by following only the SP, because the same people will receive all the mods, while others doon't receive a single one.

Tanzklaue wrote:

long story short: the community doesn't want the map with the highest SP, it wants the highest variety of maps from different mappers possible. this cannot be accomplished by following only the SP, because the same people will receive all the mods, while others doon't receive a single one.

We know what we are doing and this wont happen, if you see the first page of ranked maps, all creators are different.

Don't forget that the SP isn't coming from nowhere and that the kds are not earned by being famous.
They contributed mods to other maps in order to earn them, so their SP is an outcome of what they contributed to other people's work

Loctav wrote:

Don't forget that the SP isn't coming from nowhere and that the kds are not earned by being famous.
They contributed mods to other maps in order to earn them, so their SP is an outcome of what they contributed to other people's work

that doesn't change the fact that one person can throw so many SP at one map, so it still only represents the opinion of one person, though it is a person who knows what he/she does.

well, I see nothing wrong to reward the people who actually pay effords to mod other people's work with giving their own work more attention.