Alright. Time to bring in an example.
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/110219
Why can maps like this be mapped accurately to Taiko?
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/110219
Why can maps like this be mapped accurately to Taiko?
forum
Taiko Rules and Guidelines Discussion Thread (translated)
posted
Total Posts
452
Topic Starter
Also you forgot what else peppy said. He didn't disagree that people should agree to suggestions, am I right? This means the community is an importand factor here, so suggestiopns can't be decided by only two or three people(especially by people with less experience).
Due to this, and because of many other said reasons, I decide(due to opinions of US) not to change this rule. This is my, or better I should say our absolute decision right now.
If you have a valid reason feel free to post them later again, but for now there is nothing more to say.
@those: This map can be mapped on taiko because we have many, many styles, where one of it can fit to it perfectly. Also using sounds like e.g. konga wouldn't help at all since, as you said in the beginning, it should give a clear sound that represent ,,don" or ,,kat".
@lepidopodus: This will not happen again. Not here.
Even without those hitsounds it would be fun and as you can see there is no agreedment yet.peppy wrote:
[...]The idea of this thread is to try and agree on a mid-ground that allows for flexibility but keeps maps playable and fun.
Due to this, and because of many other said reasons, I decide(due to opinions of US) not to change this rule. This is my, or better I should say our absolute decision right now.
If you have a valid reason feel free to post them later again, but for now there is nothing more to say.
@those: This map can be mapped on taiko because we have many, many styles, where one of it can fit to it perfectly. Also using sounds like e.g. konga wouldn't help at all since, as you said in the beginning, it should give a clear sound that represent ,,don" or ,,kat".
@lepidopodus: This will not happen again. Not here.
@those
Ok I am not an experient mapper but
at least when I am mapping I try to follow the song's drumline using the hitsounds
And it makes sense for me since it's a drum game
So, for what I can see, it IS bsed on hitsounds (and colors, duh)
Also, I play this game only because of the Taiko Mode
So, for me, this game IS Taiko TOO.
That's why we have the Taiko Community
And im my opinion (haters gonna hate), mapping without taiko default hitsounds isn't map for taiko.
It's okay if you map it for your own fun, but as someone (can't remember who) said before, force players to play it is just cruel.
Also, dnb sounds awesome with taiko hitsounds, imo.
Ok I am not an experient mapper but
at least when I am mapping I try to follow the song's drumline using the hitsounds
And it makes sense for me since it's a drum game
So, for what I can see, it IS bsed on hitsounds (and colors, duh)
Also, I play this game only because of the Taiko Mode
So, for me, this game IS Taiko TOO.
That's why we have the Taiko Community
And im my opinion (haters gonna hate), mapping without taiko default hitsounds isn't map for taiko.
It's okay if you map it for your own fun, but as someone (can't remember who) said before, force players to play it is just cruel.
Also, dnb sounds awesome with taiko hitsounds, imo.
So now that we have this, what's wrong with using a bass drum as don and a snare drum as kat?OnosakiHito wrote:
@those: This map can be mapped on taiko because we have many, many styles, where one of it can fit to it perfectly. Also using sounds like e.g. konga wouldn't help at all since, as you said in the beginning, it should give a clear sound that represent ,,don" or ,,kat".
Topic Starter
@^: You may search the answer in this thread by yourself. I will not answer to this a 5th time for sure.
Before I sleep please remember this guys: we are talking about allowing map-specific hitsound or not, not disallowing any kind of authentic things or something. (I always told this towards Taiko guys but this time it's not, lol.)
If you guys criticize me for cling to authentic I think that might be valid, but most other Taiko guys here are really far from authentic TnT things, their experience, their mapping style or playing style, lots of things. And if we are talking about authentics we might say 'disallowing everything beside Taiko skin' but several Taiko players, even some in here are using other hitsound or their own hitsound. Currently It's really bad to criticizing Taiko community for being cling to authentic things cause it isn't valid anymore, we are already far from that, seriously.
If you guys criticize me for cling to authentic I think that might be valid, but most other Taiko guys here are really far from authentic TnT things, their experience, their mapping style or playing style, lots of things. And if we are talking about authentics we might say 'disallowing everything beside Taiko skin' but several Taiko players, even some in here are using other hitsound or their own hitsound. Currently It's really bad to criticizing Taiko community for being cling to authentic things cause it isn't valid anymore, we are already far from that, seriously.
And the answer is, "there is nothing wrong". It's only you who is against it because you fail to see that change is possibly an improvement, even though there's enough space to fix errors if needed.OnosakiHito wrote:
@^: You may search the answer in this thread by yourself. I will not answer to this a 5th time for sure.
Topic Starter
^@: Says the one who has tried to explain it to Loctav with a video. I'm done with you here. peppys quote says everything.
So, you must think there's something wrong with the music in the video. Lemme give it to you straight: there isn't.OnosakiHito wrote:
^@: Says the one who has tried to explain it to Loctav with a video.
I agree. But who is to say they won't sound just as good/better with alternate hitsounds?[Luanny PhNyx] wrote:
Also, dnb sounds awesome with taiko hitsounds, imo.
I think this is crazy. If I want to make my own map of say Nighwish or other Guitar based songs, I can't use kick / snare? Its like saying that all the maps must be Oni cause that some people won't play anything less. This elitism is crazy. We have maps in osu! standard that are head and shoulders beyond what the EBA/OTO devs thought about. I would agree that the don be a low and kat be a high but there is no reason why they can't change if they see fit. If someone doesn't like that a map uses non-standard hitsounds, THEY DON'T HAVE TO PLAY IT. (capped for emphasis)
Topic Starter
^@: The reason for this has been given by lepidopodus allready before(and also some other people).
Please go some sites(1?) backwards, I'm sure you will find the answer.
Please go some sites(1?) backwards, I'm sure you will find the answer.
@GigaClon: We are opposing this cause we think that is really distracing for playing properly. Generally Taiko mappers agree at this as well so that is why we maintain this rule until now. (At least I assume.) I already describe how this is different from osu standard, not simply ignoring others.
Someone who is considered as 'with in Taiko community' or someone who knows this matter at least a bit can critisize me having elitism, but to be honest, even without any knowledge about this matter, do not simply called someone like that. Put everything in to elitism is also the way ignoring someone's opinion.
Also onosakihito, please be more reasonable.
(This keeps me awaken in this deep night lolol)
EDIT:
BTW, stop talking about unrelated things. This time we got 'elitism'. I'm expecting what would be the next.
EDIT2:
BTW I'm thinking about compromisation, cause this matter is worth to keep open to future discussion, I guess
Someone who is considered as 'with in Taiko community' or someone who knows this matter at least a bit can critisize me having elitism, but to be honest, even without any knowledge about this matter, do not simply called someone like that. Put everything in to elitism is also the way ignoring someone's opinion.
Also onosakihito, please be more reasonable.
(This keeps me awaken in this deep night lolol)
EDIT:
BTW, stop talking about unrelated things. This time we got 'elitism'. I'm expecting what would be the next.
EDIT2:
BTW I'm thinking about compromisation, cause this matter is worth to keep open to future discussion, I guess
This shouldn't even be up for discussion, the taiko drum sound is one of the main aspects/appeals to the game. And wanting to forcefully change that so your map can sound BETTER?
Even if we did do this it wouldn't work our very well, with the way people map we would have rediculous unorganized drum beats going around the whole map that have zero relation to the song. (Or whatever hitsound you choose to use) If you go and look at most ranked/approved Metal/Rock songs with a taiko map, and just try to imagine a snare on every kat, (or better yet go put some custom sounds in your taiko skin and see for yourself) You'll notice how unorganized and terrible it will sound. I can throw so many map examples at you it's not even funny.
( and no the modding process WILL NOT FIX THIS. )
For this to even work you would have to follow the drums to their exact point. And with the amount of mappers we have on the side of NOT haveing the use of custom hits, that will leave the new mappers to try and use custom sounds, and it will be awful really cause they have no idea what they are doing.
At least with the taiko sounds they blend to a point where you can freestyle around the song and you will almost always have a nice freestyle beat to the song. (If you know what you are doing of course)
Even if we did do this it wouldn't work our very well, with the way people map we would have rediculous unorganized drum beats going around the whole map that have zero relation to the song. (Or whatever hitsound you choose to use) If you go and look at most ranked/approved Metal/Rock songs with a taiko map, and just try to imagine a snare on every kat, (or better yet go put some custom sounds in your taiko skin and see for yourself) You'll notice how unorganized and terrible it will sound. I can throw so many map examples at you it's not even funny.
( and no the modding process WILL NOT FIX THIS. )
For this to even work you would have to follow the drums to their exact point. And with the amount of mappers we have on the side of NOT haveing the use of custom hits, that will leave the new mappers to try and use custom sounds, and it will be awful really cause they have no idea what they are doing.
At least with the taiko sounds they blend to a point where you can freestyle around the song and you will almost always have a nice freestyle beat to the song. (If you know what you are doing of course)
Which game?MMzz wrote:
This shouldn't even be up for discussion, the taiko drum sound is one of the main aspects/appeals to the game.
The arguments you guys are throwing out is the same arguments that osu!standard players throw out for a SB,Skin,BG toggle, yet we are not banning the use of those in standard mapping. The key point here isn't "Standard mapping" it's "Same arguments"peppy wrote:
Let me remind you that this isn't taiko no tatsujin; it is osu!.
Is that not what modding is for? "I mapped my song this way because I interpret it this way with its current position in space and time, so I reject any suggestion that can make it better."MMzz wrote:
This shouldn't even be up for discussion, the taiko drum sound is one of the main aspects/appeals to the game. And wanting to forcefully change that so your map can sound BETTER?
And so you think sticking to the default, authentic sounds will magically make it sound organized and better?MMzz wrote:
Even if we did do this it wouldn't work our very well, with the way people map we would have rediculous unorganized drum beats going around the whole map that have zero relation to the song. (Or whatever hitsound you choose to use) If you go and look at most ranked/approved Metal/Rock songs with a taiko map, and just try to imagine a snare on every kat, (or better yet go put some custom sounds in your taiko skin and see for yourself) You'll notice how unorganized and terrible it will sound. I can throw so many map examples at you it's not even funny.
( and no the modding process WILL NOT FIX THIS. )
Again, is this not modding is for?MMzz wrote:
For this to even work you would have to follow the drums to their exact point. And with the amount of mappers we have on the side of NOT haveing the use of custom hits, that will leave the new mappers to try and use custom sounds, and it will be awful really cause they have no idea what they are doing.
So, can you say that there is zero chance of another hitsound set that is capable of achieving the same freestyle beat and flow?MMzz wrote:
At least with the taiko sounds they blend to a point where you can freestyle around the song and you will almost always have a nice freestyle beat to the song. (If you know what you are doing of course)
I never said such a thing. I'm trying to point out that if people use custom hits it's just going to get WORSE.those wrote:
And so you think sticking to the default, authentic sounds will magically make it sound organized and better?
Modding taiko, that's a funny joke.those wrote:
Again, is this not modding is for?
@Sakura, go get your taiko playcount up some so I can take what you are saying seriously.
Why don't you guys actually read my post before going off on how bad my opinion is because I think custom hits are stupid.
tl;dr:
^Exactly what I think.MMzz wrote:
This shouldn't even be up for discussion, the taiko drum sound is one of the main aspects/appeals to the game.
+1[Luanny PhNyx] wrote:
tl;dr:^Exactly what I think.MMzz wrote:
This shouldn't even be up for discussion, the taiko drum sound is one of the main aspects/appeals to the game.
Well yeah it's not TnT but it's still Taiko mode in osu!.Sakura wrote:
Which game?
I really don't agree that this is the same argument but let's assume that it is the same. Even if it is the same, people participating in the discussion are different and people will be affected are different. Previous decisions in other community might be a good reference but we don't need to end this with the same conclusion.Sakura wrote:
The arguments you guys are throwing out is the same arguments that osu!standard players throw out for a SB,Skin,BG toggle, yet we are not banning the use of those in standard mapping. The key point here isn't "Standard mapping" it's "Same arguments"
At least in osu standard there were lots of mappers who want custom skinning enabled, but in this thread, even major Taiko mappers are not that supportive...
What i'm saying is, that if you dont want to use custom hitsounds in taiko you're free to not do so, but you dont need to enforce it on mappers that actually want to use them.
If as you say no one will use them anyways, i don't see this as a problem?
If as you say no one will use them anyways, i don't see this as a problem?
ok, I don't know if you guys really get what I mean or even watch my comment before
I restate it here
1. Custom hitsound will affect NOTHING if you use taiko skin for taiko mode
2. Hitsound Volume can be specify in a SINGLE difficult
3. For people who do not use taiko skin, they give up their right on using taiko hitsound (I think they don't care anyway) so why do we care?
4. Original hitsound in taiko mode is NOT taiko hitsound, if you care on original hitsound, you are annoying yourself
In conclusion, there is no point for arguing!
I restate it here
1. Custom hitsound will affect NOTHING if you use taiko skin for taiko mode
2. Hitsound Volume can be specify in a SINGLE difficult
3. For people who do not use taiko skin, they give up their right on using taiko hitsound (I think they don't care anyway) so why do we care?
4. Original hitsound in taiko mode is NOT taiko hitsound, if you care on original hitsound, you are annoying yourself
In conclusion, there is no point for arguing!
The whole argument is pointless, because the suggested aren't even thinking about the points lepidon and MMzz bring along.
They generally overread them, pick context less stuff, comment them in a provoking way and refuse to understand the reasons behind this.
Freedom to all mappers, that's your purpose, Sakura. Go nuke all rules.
I am really pissed since Sakura and those try to get a change to a folk to heavily is against it.
And don't come along with your osz2 stuff. Seriously, hindering people to delete gameplay elements to make everyone play on an equal base is WAY different from allowing stuff, that brings out only shitmaps.
Trust us, we discussed this for so long, and we know why we decided this.
I should hinder myself to not get offensive, so far.
for gods sake, read and kill ALL ARGUMENTS given and not only turn the word in our mouth just to make them easier to shot down.
Sakuras stupid question of 'which game' is one of this provocative stupid behavior.
They generally overread them, pick context less stuff, comment them in a provoking way and refuse to understand the reasons behind this.
Freedom to all mappers, that's your purpose, Sakura. Go nuke all rules.
I am really pissed since Sakura and those try to get a change to a folk to heavily is against it.
And don't come along with your osz2 stuff. Seriously, hindering people to delete gameplay elements to make everyone play on an equal base is WAY different from allowing stuff, that brings out only shitmaps.
Trust us, we discussed this for so long, and we know why we decided this.
I should hinder myself to not get offensive, so far.
for gods sake, read and kill ALL ARGUMENTS given and not only turn the word in our mouth just to make them easier to shot down.
Sakuras stupid question of 'which game' is one of this provocative stupid behavior.
Then state it clearly.
Why is using custom hitsounds bad for this game?
Give us all a reason that I haven't fired back at yet.
Why is using custom hitsounds bad for this game?
Give us all a reason that I haven't fired back at yet.
Read the discussion of when you started suggesting this.
Quote them all, kill them all.
Then we proceed.
And also kill the arguments, that killed yours.
I refuse to repeat all of us for the 6th time already.
Quote them all, kill them all.
Then we proceed.
And also kill the arguments, that killed yours.
I refuse to repeat all of us for the 6th time already.
So you choose to speak like you're a god, too. You still haven't responded about the prepared piano.
In addition, for those interested, there has been no discussion about custom hitsounds until ztrot and I posted earlier.
In addition, for those interested, there has been no discussion about custom hitsounds until ztrot and I posted earlier.
I did. And others did too. Nothing more to add here. I don't act as a god, I just show you that you are not killing every argument and just picking the ones who aren't supposed to be the main ones, at all.
Okay, since the prepared piano seems to be your favourite argument...
Your point is basically that the prepared piano is also a piano - and while that is technically true, they are used on completely different occasions. They work differently, they are basically two seperate instruments despite LOOKING identical. It's not just that they work for different pieces of music, they quite frankly don't play the same.
Taiko is a game, it's about gameplay. So forcing what amounts to a different instrument on the player is a severe change in gameplay - even if it still looks like the same game from the outside (just like a prepared piano looks like a regular one).
Your point is basically that the prepared piano is also a piano - and while that is technically true, they are used on completely different occasions. They work differently, they are basically two seperate instruments despite LOOKING identical. It's not just that they work for different pieces of music, they quite frankly don't play the same.
Taiko is a game, it's about gameplay. So forcing what amounts to a different instrument on the player is a severe change in gameplay - even if it still looks like the same game from the outside (just like a prepared piano looks like a regular one).
It's not my favourite argument, but it is one that makes a lot of sense.Luna wrote:
Okay, since the prepared piano seems to be your favourite argument...
Your point is basically that the prepared piano is also a piano - and while that is technically true, they are used on completely different occasions. They work differently, they are basically two seperate instruments despite LOOKING identical. It's not just that they work for different pieces of music, they quite frankly don't play the same.
Let us imagine there is a piece of music composed for prepared piano. If you play it on a regular piano, it will not sound as correct as if it was played on a prepared piano. As well, if you play a piece composed for a regular piano on a prepared piano, it will not sound as correct as if it was played on a regular piano.
Let us now imagine a prepared piano. Instead of using screws to stick between the strings, you're now using a nail that is thicker in width, and is driven deeper into the piano. The performance will not sound the same, but some will argue that it may sound better than the piano prepared with screws. Conversely, some may say that it does not sound as great.
But if you compare that to what we have now, we have a greater audience saying that it doesn't sound as great even before listening to the performance.
It is about gameplay. The don and kat represents a low tone and a high tone, respectively. They still look the same (you have red/blue, we're not talking about creating taiko note skins yet), but the timbre of the don/kat is now changed. However, with my new rule suggestion, don will still represent the low tone, and kat will still represent the high tone. And I emphasize again: we have a greater audience saying that it doesn't sound as great even before listening to the performance. Why is that?Luna wrote:
Taiko is a game, it's about gameplay. So forcing what amounts to a different instrument on the player is a severe change in gameplay - even if it still looks like the same game from the outside (just like a prepared piano looks like a regular one).
Give a prepared piano to a normal piano player.
He'll be able to play it because it still technically works the same way, but he probably won't be very comfortable using it since it has to be used in a different way.
That's basically the gameplay that I mean - it's not about what SOUNDS better but what PLAYS better. It's certainly possible to map Taiko in a way that sounds better with custom hitsounds but if they are forced on the players, it violates the core gameplay > artistic freedom rule.
There is nothing wrong with suggesting your hitsounds (in the beatmap's thread for example, or by setting a preferred skin) but forcing them is too much of a change in general gameplay IMO
He'll be able to play it because it still technically works the same way, but he probably won't be very comfortable using it since it has to be used in a different way.
That's basically the gameplay that I mean - it's not about what SOUNDS better but what PLAYS better. It's certainly possible to map Taiko in a way that sounds better with custom hitsounds but if they are forced on the players, it violates the core gameplay > artistic freedom rule.
There is nothing wrong with suggesting your hitsounds (in the beatmap's thread for example, or by setting a preferred skin) but forcing them is too much of a change in general gameplay IMO
Its like a rock band perfoming an orchestra
It will NOT be the same
You will map something with conga hitsound
so the player will be FORCED to play with conga hitsounds because with the default ones it will not make any sense
Will be very different
So, if the player doesn't accepts that annoying thing, he doesn't play the map because it turned bad with default hitsounds (I mean taiko hitsounds). We want maps for everyone, right?
You're being cruel if you want to force it
It's like forcing taiko players to play converted standard maps
Some will be great and some will be SHIT
Damn, convert a "different" taiko into taiko isn't a good idea.
And I know, most of the taiko players will play it with default and will play a weird map.
It will NOT be the same
EXACTLY.those wrote:
Let us imagine there is a piece of music composed for prepared piano. If you play it on a regular piano, it will not sound as correct as if it was played on a prepared piano. As well, if you play a piece composed for a regular piano on a prepared piano, it will not sound as correct as if it was played on a regular piano.
You will map something with conga hitsound
so the player will be FORCED to play with conga hitsounds because with the default ones it will not make any sense
Will be very different
So, if the player doesn't accepts that annoying thing, he doesn't play the map because it turned bad with default hitsounds (I mean taiko hitsounds). We want maps for everyone, right?
You're being cruel if you want to force it
It's like forcing taiko players to play converted standard maps
Some will be great and some will be SHIT
Damn, convert a "different" taiko into taiko isn't a good idea.
And I know, most of the taiko players will play it with default and will play a weird map.
And what's wrong with being accustomed to playing either way? Is it not worth the time?Luna wrote:
Give a prepared piano to a normal piano player.
He'll be able to play it because it still technically works the same way, but he probably won't be very comfortable using it since it has to be used in a different way.
You speak as if default taiko hitsounds plays better 100% of the time. If that was true, then sure. But it's not.Luna wrote:
That's basically the gameplay that I mean - it's not about what SOUNDS better but what PLAYS better. It's certainly possible to map Taiko in a way that sounds better with custom hitsounds but if they are forced on the players, it violates the core gameplay > artistic freedom rule.
There's nothing wrong with playing with default hitsounds, either. If you don't want to play with hitsounds the mapper feels are appropriate, get rid of them.Luna wrote:
There is nothing wrong with suggesting your hitsounds (in the beatmap's thread for example, or by setting a preferred skin) but forcing them is too much of a change in general gameplay IMO
Mapping is an art. There are rules to be followed, and this should not be one of them.
We already agreed on this.[Luanny PhNyx] wrote:
Its like a rock band perfoming an orchestra
It will NOT be the same
Well of course. If you choose to use the default hitsounds instead of the custom hitsounds, you'll be playing a prepared piano piece on a regular piano. I'd be the one providing you with the prepared piano to make it sound more correct, but you'll be the one choosing to play it on a regular piano, and it will sound weird to you. Whose choice is that, exactly?[Luanny PhNyx] wrote:
EXACTLY.those wrote:
Let us imagine there is a piece of music composed for prepared piano. If you play it on a regular piano, it will not sound as correct as if it was played on a prepared piano. As well, if you play a piece composed for a regular piano on a prepared piano, it will not sound as correct as if it was played on a regular piano.
You will map something with conga hitsound
so the player will be FORCED to play with conga hitsounds because with the default ones it will not make any sense
Will be very different
So, if the player doesn't accepts that annoying thing, he doesn't play the map because it turned bad with default hitsounds (I mean taiko hitsounds). We want maps for everyone, right?
You're being cruel if you want to force it
It's like forcing taiko players to play converted standard maps
Some will be great and some will be SHIT
Damn, convert a "different" taiko into taiko isn't a good idea.
And I know, most of the taiko players will play it with default and will play a weird map.
Topic Starter
You may continue with the discussion about this piano example. But I have two question.
1. Did I miss something or has been matthewhln ignored again? What he said has a new dimension and needs some new arguments on both sites.
2.those, tell me please why this didn't come into your mind earlier? When the taiko rules were not avaible you had the possibilitys to use your own custom hitsounds but didn't do it at all. No one of you. Why now?
I can't argue about anything right now. /learning
1. Did I miss something or has been matthewhln ignored again? What he said has a new dimension and needs some new arguments on both sites.
2.those, tell me please why this didn't come into your mind earlier? When the taiko rules were not avaible you had the possibilitys to use your own custom hitsounds but didn't do it at all. No one of you. Why now?
I can't argue about anything right now. /learning
I really don't want to learn how to play againthose wrote:
And what's wrong with being accustomed to playing either way? Is it not worth the time?Luna wrote:
Give a prepared piano to a normal piano player.
He'll be able to play it because it still technically works the same way, but he probably won't be very comfortable using it since it has to be used in a different way.
Inb4 "Its not learn again, it is accustomed."
For me it is.
Why do you want to force it?
I'm sure at least 90% of us doesn't want it
Sounds like you (and some other people) want it just to turn your maps better for YOU (I may be wrong but that's what I can see)
So please, DO IT, but don't rank it, please.
Do it, share with everyone on #taiko
Some will have lots of fun playing it and some will not. Deal with it.
Turn it rankable doesn't make sense.
Well, if you play a prepared piano you want to play guitar on a piano.those wrote:
And what's wrong with being accustomed to playing either way? Is it not worth the time?
Taiko is not O2jam. And if you play Taiko, you play a taiko simulation game. Replacing the "taiko simulation" out of the "game" is missing any purpose of this game mode.
Lacks of examples. Empty assumption here.those wrote:
You speak as if default taiko hitsounds plays better 100% of the time. If that was true, then sure. But it's not.
With osz2, this is not possible anymore. And you know it.those wrote:
There's nothing wrong with playing with default hitsounds, either. If you don't want to play with hitsounds the mapper feels are appropriate, get rid of them.
Well, you know that mapping osu!standard contains more art than Taiko. Taiko is way more a simulation to the music. osu! relys more on creating an art over an existing music. Taiko doesn't.those wrote:
Mapping is an art. There are rules to be followed, and this should not be one of them.
As already said, Taiko is a drumming game. If you are focusing your maps on something different than the drumbeat while mapping, you do something wrong. Every map contains a hypothetic "drumline", even piano-only songs.those wrote:
Well of course. If you choose to use the default hitsounds instead of the custom hitsounds, you'll be playing a prepared piano piece on a regular piano. I'd be the one providing you with the prepared piano to make it sound more correct, but you'll be the one choosing to play it on a regular piano, and it will sound weird to you. Whose choice is that, exactly?
And I can't imagine custom hitsounds that sound "more correct" than the current ones, since the current ones are providing the common used deep sound and high sounds.
As lepidon already said, everyone should choose on their own, on which "drumming instrument" they want to play taiko - so they modify their own skin.
But using "map enforced ones" (which happens due to osz2) are the wrong way.
Especially because you can play appropiate drums on every piece of music. Practically there exist no drumming instrument that sounds better than another.
We killed map-wise custom hitsounds so everyone can use their own ones with their skin. Players are supposed to theoretically 'select their own drum they want to use on this/all songs'. Mappers are not there to decide that. They are supposed to place the "KATs" and "DONs" according to the song. Practically there exists no drum, that serves better DONs and KATs to a mapset.
Topic Starter
@Luanny:
Nothing will happen before I/we don't get valid reasons or the community agrees itself to it.
SPOILER
OnosakiHito wrote:
Also you forgot what else peppy said. He didn't disagree that people should agree to suggestions, am I right? This means the community is an importand factor here, so suggestiopns can't be decided by only two or three people(especially by people with less experience).Even without those hitsounds it would be fun and as you can see there is no agreedment yet.peppy wrote:
[...]The idea of this thread is to try and agree on a mid-ground that allows for flexibility but keeps maps playable and fun.
Due to this, and because of many other said reasons, I decide(due to opinions of US) not to change this rule. This is my, or better I should say our absolute decision right now.
If you have a valid reason feel free to post them later again, but for now there is nothing more to say.
Nothing will happen before I/we don't get valid reasons or the community agrees itself to it.
Hi matthewhln. Excuse us for ignoring you.OnosakiHito wrote:
1. Did I miss something or has been matthewhln ignored again? What he said has a new dimension and needs some new arguments on both sites.
This is what we are trying to avoid. This is similar to "custom skins will affect nothing if you delete skin elements in the folder".matthewhln wrote:
1. Custom hitsound will affect NOTHING if you use taiko skin for taiko mode
We don't mention anything about hitsound volume, but the timbre of the hitsound itself.matthewhln wrote:
2. Hitsound Volume can be specify in a SINGLE difficult
Yes, this is true, and we know that. If you want to use the Taiko hitsound on a map that doesn't have custom hitsounds, use the game default ones.matthewhln wrote:
3. For people who do not use taiko skin, they give up their right on using taiko hitsound (I think they don't care anyway) so why do we care?
I'm not quite sure I understand you here. Can you explain this a bit more?matthewhln wrote:
4. Original hitsound in taiko mode is NOT taiko hitsound, if you care on original hitsound, you are annoying yourself
That's like asking me why I didn't know how to use calculus when I was 5. It was available at an earlier point in my life, but I didn't figure its importance to me until now.OnosakiHito wrote:
2.those, tell me please why this didn't come into your mind earlier? When the taiko rules were not avaible you had the possibilitys to use your own custom hitsounds but didn't do it at all. No one of you. Why now?
As interesting as this all is I've been reading that last few pages I can see one thing that does really need to be addressed and that is
"if a map is going to have custom hitsounds for a taiko diff they must follow a set example and must be drum related." As for forcing taiko only sounds that rule could never hold up because you are basing this rule off a skin and not something that comes with osu as stock so really there isn't much more to discuss your only wasting time with this instead lets all go be productive or detail some other things that need to be sorted out in taiko rules.
"if a map is going to have custom hitsounds for a taiko diff they must follow a set example and must be drum related." As for forcing taiko only sounds that rule could never hold up because you are basing this rule off a skin and not something that comes with osu as stock so really there isn't much more to discuss your only wasting time with this instead lets all go be productive or detail some other things that need to be sorted out in taiko rules.
ztrot missed the point. You lost.
Reread the last post of me and lepidon. Then retry. Thanks.
Reread the last post of me and lepidon. Then retry. Thanks.
your point doesn't make sense?
Your neither. We aren't basing our arguments on a specific skin.