Hi!
I'm going to treat this thread as my personal blog.
I really hope you guys don't mind.
I'm going to possibly burn my account by being passive-agressive.
ztrot wrote:
I wouldn't call them free but after looking over the input it does seem the score gap was quite large from the highest failing person. I was talking with some mania guys about what things they look for when modding I still have a lot to learn about the mode but even i can see the need to fix this issue asap, things like getting clear rules and what is seen as invalid agreed upon with the masses. I hope to see results for these things soon.
Hi ztrot. Let me explain - osu!mania mappers and players come from several sources. The BMS community, the Stepmania community, the myo2 community, to name a few. Some others are veterans of other games, including the ridiculously ancient canmusic!
The mechanics of the game tends to favour o2jam because of the interpretation of LNs - and even then, not so much (this one is the best represented as far as I understand!)
These disagreements stem from the fact that people have different ideas of what makes a good chart. I'd say that a lot of people are just plain ignorant and try and yell the loudest they can.
Like me!
Spy wrote:
BMS and Stepmania players teach you how to mapping
Hi spy. Sorry that you're still in pain about things that happened ages ago and you can't let go.
Please, I recommend you to be the bigger man and stop.
***
So, I've got some personal experiences. They've built my expectations with respect to what to expect from doing modding, and what to expect when getting modding.
First of all, modding is usually motivated by the desire to rank a map.
Even if the finality to modding is, ideally, improving your map, it often is merely just means to an end.
To be fair, since people in my experience in charge of looking at maps usually look at an amount of mods or star power and are disallowed from ranking things that don't have
much time rotting on the sidelines because other people are salty that their own maps are not being looked at, often, you just want short mods that don't really
say a whole lot to fill this quota. By this, I believe we're led to want to give or get short, very precise mods of what to change to pretend we're making progress.
I know people though - someone by this point is probably saying "But I care about the mods I get being quality™!"
Sure, I believe you. But haven't you ever wanted to just get mods? Anything, regardless of quality, for the sake of getting to a quota?
Okay, I digress. What I would like to say about this is that, often, maps that require very little changes to be good often suffer from being graveyarded.
On the other hand, maps with many small mistakes or otherwise massive holes get more mods (since it's way easier to mod anyway!) of varying quality.
If you bring anything particularily personal at me regarding this please reconsider what you're doing.
BNs. I'm quite sorry to say that they'd be saturated if they're too few, and mappers are too many. Increasing the number will probably increase the number of beatmaps ranked.
Consider that there is no guarantee to their quality - we've seen bad maps get ranked only because of persistance and filling the numbers requested.
Now, I do know there's no perfect system. Bear with me - this is the point. There is no perfect system for everything ever related to human beings.
We agree, do we?
From this perspective, I believe the flaws I've presented (that are mostly emergent properties of the current system! Humans, I swear.) are quite related to the lack of activity on the modding side of things.
The low expectations for the mods you want to get, and the encouragement to spam many mods that are of some, but with not any particular, quality™ for the charter
quickly leads to burnout for people who want to invest their time on both better maps and better modding.
Whoa. Okay, that sounds like a big leap in logic. Read again if you're overwhelmed, please.
Look, if lazy mods are encouraged by the kudosu system, and modding of any kind is desired by the mappers that just want to get a map ranked, well, you should get what I mean.
***
Loctav wrote:
As we discussed on other places, a re-evaluation will not have the desired effect. Instead of throwing more people in to short-term patch issues, we rather want to educate current modders in osu!mania how to mod properly and to show them the ropes of osu!'s very own environment. There have been several lacks in basic knowledge (e.g. that you can not use red lines to alter the scroll speed/to perform gimmicks) or not detecting basic map flaws (drastic SV changes in Normals have not been seen).
If anything, there needs to be the initiative to raise the capabilties of modders, that do not just mod:
move 1
delete 3
add 45
add clap
^
^
And especially nuking the mentality that "DIS MY STYLE" is a valid statement and make people learn how to elaborate their points properly.
Dear Loctav. I wholeheartedly agree with your premise: there needs to be the initiative to raise the capabilities of modders. And if I made my point correctly, most of you should agree that you don't want to force beginners into BN positions just because they happen to be active.
What you want is committed people, of course. Pros of really understanding the game, on either artistical or technical merit.
***
I know "artistical" is a big red fat alarm of "PRETENTIOUS FUCKFACE IGNORE THIS PERSON" on the grounds of many people claiming their shitty maps "artistic" because of some sort of notion of a non-existing style.
But you guys know what I mean - do you? I mean the charts that for some reason are not technical, but still play hella good. Dumps, or something related to effects (like the ability to pull off a reverse measure line trick!) and such.
The "state of the art" guys. Those guys developing new ideas, with some good technical people guiding their decisions of what works and doesn't.
With that out of the way so you know what I'm talking about...
People without any titles have their opinions often overlooked when modding, in spite of how much respect they get from whoever. It's fine though, we're all human. We're free to do whatever.
But, this is the other kind of burnout that leads to many people not even pursuing modding-related titles. Can we fix it? Probably not, but it's good to mention.
I do not believe a test is the way to go. Even if you put trustworthy people in charge of it, it's going to lead to biasing towards certain forms.
I mean, if you give a group the ability to make a test, they'll put in what they know, what they feel about things (Imagine Spy putting his biases into it and having what he says be the correct answer, for instance.) Any further people that get in and get the power to change this will probably already been skewed by this test.
I don't think this is a good long-term solution.
I wish I could be more constructive about it, but I did say this was just a blog post.