I do acknowledge that to be the major flaw of the idea as to which is why i posted at the hopes of it possibly being a base model, reference, or whatever for something better
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Mode Specific BN's and QAT (osu!mania)
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Yeah, I understand. It's certainly not a bad idea at all in concept (in my opinion) -- having different groups of people doing subsets of things that are more comfortable to them is a good step in the right direction logically.Lenfried- wrote:
I do acknowledge that to be the major flaw of the idea as to which is why i posted at the hopes of it possibly being a base model, reference, or whatever for something better
I also agree that specializing people into specific roles sounds like a good way to divide labor, assuming there's a large number of BNs to spread this work out. Consider that multiple people for each role will be necessary to prevent burnout from overwork, and to create redundancy so that if one or two BNs for a specific role happen to go inactive it won't completely break the system.
Another reason I think it's a good idea is because it will allow for more people to become BNs, since it takes less knowledge about patterning and map structure to check things like timing, hitsounds, metadata, etc. It will allow the BNs who do actually understand the more subjective concepts to focus on that work rather than wasting time checking the objective details.
The most important prerequisite for this to work though is a GREATLY expanded BN group compared to it's current size. And something I haven't seen discussed yet is how you would keep some sort of control and oversight over the entire BN system. What sort of organizational structure works best for an expanded BN group? How do we structure the admission system to ensure that new BNs are qualified for the position? How do we ensure that we have a well balanced number of BNs for each position?
Also important to consider is the current situation is a) we lack a reasonable number of BNs given the overall amount of work for them, and b) the BNs we do have are often inactive. A sudden change to a new system will completely change many things at once and we need to be ready to take control, modify our ideas, and keep a continuing dialog about the changes as they are implemented. If we don't, it's easy to end up in a different situation where we are once again complaining about a broken system. If things don't work out the way we expect them to, we need to be able to come up with possible alternatives or changes to try to counteract whatever unexpected consequences arise.
Another reason I think it's a good idea is because it will allow for more people to become BNs, since it takes less knowledge about patterning and map structure to check things like timing, hitsounds, metadata, etc. It will allow the BNs who do actually understand the more subjective concepts to focus on that work rather than wasting time checking the objective details.
The most important prerequisite for this to work though is a GREATLY expanded BN group compared to it's current size. And something I haven't seen discussed yet is how you would keep some sort of control and oversight over the entire BN system. What sort of organizational structure works best for an expanded BN group? How do we structure the admission system to ensure that new BNs are qualified for the position? How do we ensure that we have a well balanced number of BNs for each position?
Also important to consider is the current situation is a) we lack a reasonable number of BNs given the overall amount of work for them, and b) the BNs we do have are often inactive. A sudden change to a new system will completely change many things at once and we need to be ready to take control, modify our ideas, and keep a continuing dialog about the changes as they are implemented. If we don't, it's easy to end up in a different situation where we are once again complaining about a broken system. If things don't work out the way we expect them to, we need to be able to come up with possible alternatives or changes to try to counteract whatever unexpected consequences arise.
This system can be fairly easy to simulate on a smaller scale by the community if enough people - including non-BN users who are good at checking one specific thing - are willing to try it out. I think Lenfried's got a neat idea there and it is something I really want to see live to know whether it works or not. We'd only need a few mapsets - with their respective mappers' agreement - and a dozen of normal users volunteers to give it a try, along with a couple actual BNs. I for one would be totally in. A simple Trello could be all we need for all I know. The only issue I see here is that, in case it ever ends up working nicely, having that system apply for every mapset calls for a pretty huge revamp of the ranking process (again), which ends up affecting the other modes as well - I can hardly imagine such a system officially only supported for o!m, hence why representatives of the other modes should give it a go as well.
I'm probably thinking too far ahead, but so far this has been the only suggestion with which we do not actually need official support to set up and try out at first (that being said help from the higher ups is of course welcome), and it should be simple enough to get it to work given we have enough people sticking around to start the experiment.
That would solve the immediate need of teaching BNs how to be, well, BNs altogether by writing up modding or mapping or whatever guides you can come up with, not to mention learning all of this stuff is pretty time consuming. Guides are good to have, but having them as options for users and "specialized BNs" to expand their knowledge without the former being forced upon the latter could be the right (or wrong who knows) way to proceed.
I'm probably thinking too far ahead, but so far this has been the only suggestion with which we do not actually need official support to set up and try out at first (that being said help from the higher ups is of course welcome), and it should be simple enough to get it to work given we have enough people sticking around to start the experiment.
That would solve the immediate need of teaching BNs how to be, well, BNs altogether by writing up modding or mapping or whatever guides you can come up with, not to mention learning all of this stuff is pretty time consuming. Guides are good to have, but having them as options for users and "specialized BNs" to expand their knowledge without the former being forced upon the latter could be the right (or wrong who knows) way to proceed.
Bobbias wrote:
EDIT: also ztrot, you should check out the guide linked in my signature: http://www.cosmovibe.com/ncguide/ it was written for a different game, but it's general enough that most of the ideas apply to osu!mania just as well as any other VSRG.
agreed, you might want to replace current how-to-map-mania wiki with this one instead, or at least, stickied somewhere in osumania forum. diversity of mapping style aside, new players should at least know the
offer bonuses for being a BNI really like this idea! How about free osu!supporter for BNs?
YEA! (that'd be cool though)LastExceed wrote:
offer bonuses for being a BNI really like this idea! How about free osu!supporter for BNs?
but that won't be effective for long term tho, also not that much boost of morale, excluding the dedicated ones c:
well, easier way to recruit bn is probably by promising them certain fame, ie forum title might be worthy enough for players to venture the realm of bn
or maybe make kinky badge for bn idk but that might works don't spank me mommy
well, easier way to recruit bn is probably by promising them certain fame, ie forum title might be worthy enough for players to venture the realm of bn
or maybe make kinky badge for bn idk but that might works don't spank me mommy
Give Bn red names tbh
*i'm not even here don't mind me okay thanks*
*i'm not even here don't mind me okay thanks*
The thing about that is that most of the BN's can AFK or just quit and still be supporters. I dont think we should give rewards to the BNs in general, I do believe we just have to fix some stuff for mania and make people feel interested of being part of it (we all know it wont happend but some really cool mappers just dont want to map here because of hitsoundingLastExceed wrote:
offer bonuses for being a BNI really like this idea! How about free osu!supporter for BNs?
)So like GMTs/QATs?juankristal wrote:
The thing about that is that most of the BN's can AFK or just quit and still be supporters.
BN's are not forced to be modding all day or iconing all day. QATs and GMTs are forced to be either moderating or checking beatmaps. There is a difference.Deimos wrote:
So like GMTs/QATs?juankristal wrote:
The thing about that is that most of the BN's can AFK or just quit and still be supporters.
GMT are not forced to checking Mapsjuankristal wrote:
BN's are not forced to be modding all day or iconing all day. QATs and GMTs are forced to be either moderating or checking beatmaps. There is a difference.
QAT's doing that Map stuff, GMT that moderating stuff, right? o:
pretty much agreeing with this.Bobbias wrote:
Also important to consider is the current situation is a) we lack a reasonable number of BNs given the overall amount of work for them, and b) the BNs we do have are often inactive. A sudden change to a new system will completely change many things at once and we need to be ready to take control, modify our ideas, and keep a continuing dialog about the changes as they are implemented. If we don't, it's easy to end up in a different situation where we are once again complaining about a broken system. If things don't work out the way we expect them to, we need to be able to come up with possible alternatives or changes to try to counteract whatever unexpected consequences arise.
they could just revoke the supporter/nominating power if they afk for x(exceed) amount of time . besides they dont really have any moderating powers other than iconing so it shouldnt matter muchjuankristal wrote:
The thing about that is that most of the BN's can AFK or just quit and still be supporters. I dont think we should give rewards to the BNs in general, I do believe we just have to fix some stuff for mania and make people feel interested of being part of it (we all know it wont happend but some really cool mappers just dont want to map here because of hitsounding
they may have to moderate channels but i dont see they check maps everyday nowadays. implying that we are lacking activites of BN , so QAT activities is reduced , too , since QATs check maps that have been qualified by BNs , normal modding are up to each own . they arent enforced.juankristal wrote:
BN's are not forced to be modding all day or iconing all day. QATs and GMTs are forced to be either moderating or checking beatmaps. There is a difference.
in anyhow in my opinion we just need something to motivate these BNs (not supposedly to be free supporters,
maybe bring back BN ranking and points stuffs might do even if its just a little) to do their job properly and consistently , pushing maps forward / polishing maps arent easy tasks and the request must have been a lot ,it do need a lot lot lot lots of motivation .
at the same time i dont mean it to be some sort of competitive , just a marking points that shows their work is good enough.
i do not know what the current BN system offers ,so please correct me if im wrong.I;ve been away from the team for a year now
some modders are actually good with just saying move 3 delete 2 ctrl h ctrl j , they just dont know how to explain because of language barriers/lack of communication skills
things that actually demotivate them are actually because checking osu!mania maps are a bit heavier work than other modes because of the specific hitsound volumes and keysounds , understanding between various of other game style charting ,miscommunicating/misunderstanding between styles occurs.
" offering bonus " is not the right word , giving them a feeling of appreciation of their hardworks i think words it better. the team was once name Beatmap Appreciation Team.LastExceed wrote:
offer bonuses for being a BN
giving a name color does affects motivation too , even if its just on forum , it displays on their profile , so it does feel like being appreciated instead of the nominator badge that only appears in map threads was not really satisfacting, those were the time heh.
nvm why am i even writing this. oh my , its been almost a year since i touch this game mode xD
community checking or such should be helpful as people who can mod really well arent really active.
And? There shouldn't be any differences. GMTs are moderating the forum and/or chat. QATs are checking Qualified Beatmaps if they fit the quality to be Ranked. BNs also spend their time to improve Beatmaps to get high quality Beatmaps ranked for the community. When you get inactive you will get moved out of the group and that's probably for all groups. At the end everyone of them is spending their time to improve the game and community and that's not worth a supporter tag which only costs 4$ a month?juankristal wrote:
BN's are not forced to be modding all day or iconing all day. QATs and GMTs are forced to be either moderating or checking beatmaps. There is a difference.Deimos wrote:
So like GMTs/QATs?
PS: Also I think no one is forcing you to be a GMT, you should be free as well to stop moderating like a BN to stop modding.
You are not seeing my point at all... You can lave the GMT for sure but you have actual responsabilities in the moderation team, something that you dont have in the BN. Yeah, you should be iconing 3 maps per month but you are not forced to be a bubble machine. You are not forced to check the maps that you dislike. As a moderator or QAT you have to check even if you dont want.Deimos wrote:
And? There shouldn't be any differences. GMTs are moderating the forum and/or chat. QATs are checking Qualified Beatmaps if they fit the quality to be Ranked. BNs also spend their time to improve Beatmaps to get high quality Beatmaps ranked for the community. When you get inactive you will get moved out of the group and that's probably for all groups. At the end everyone of them is spending their time to improve the game and community and that's not worth a supporter tag which only costs 4$ a month?
PS: Also I think no one is forcing you to be a GMT, you should be free as well to stop moderating like a BN to stop modding.
Anyways, why are we discusing this in a thread like that? Lets just talk about BN's.
need more active BN's and best quality ranked maps
hi
just passing by, don't mind my inactivity in BN stuff..
is there any significant progress for this newer BNs & QATs development? also.. have a nice day!
_(:3」∠)_
just passing by, don't mind my inactivity in BN stuff..
is there any significant progress for this newer BNs & QATs development? also.. have a nice day!
_(:3」∠)_
xanibabe wrote:
Although this isn't particularly about BN's, I want to point out that become a mania modder is very difficult in the beginning. There aren't a lot of guides for modding specific to mania, and so it's hard to know exactly what to do or what the editor is capable of doing.
edit: also the current mapping meta is very conflicting, as there is a clash of BMS, o2jam, stepmania, etc, and people who are new to VSRG