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osu! World Cup 2015 - Discussion Thread

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Minhtam

plaatinum wrote:



wat
In before this new scoring system is globally implemented for all of osu
Deif
OWC Group Stage again NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO D:
Musty
I just hope that this scoring system won't be as bad as mania's. Indeed, I honestly feel like it's the worst for tourneys, why?
Because you cant make advantages of players' consistency in terms of comboeing (not sure about the correct word to use there). Before, in team based tourneys there have been a lots of tight match that has been disputed throughout maps because people had combos while other had not. I honestly feel like consistency is what people want to see, they want amazing combos more than "amazing accuracy" which is not relevant on long songs.. holding combos is harder in tournament than holding accuracy IN MY OPINION.
Well, i think i am pretty confused in what i say, but if it appears to be close to mania's score system, then i highly disagree with your choices.
Topic Starter
Loctav

Musty wrote:

I just hope that this scoring system won't be as bad as mania's. Indeed, I honestly feel like it's the worst for tourneys, why?
Because you cant make advantages of players' consistency in terms of comboeing (not sure about the correct word to use there). Before, in team based tourneys there have been a lots of tight match that has been disputed throughout maps because people had combos while other had not. I honestly feel like consistency is what people want to see, they want amazing combos more than "amazing accuracy" which is not relevant on long songs.. holding combos is harder in tournament than holding accuracy IN MY OPINION.
Well, i think i am pretty confused in what i say, but if it appears to be close to mania's score system, then i highly disagree with your choices.
As we stated here: https://twitter.com/ppy/status/649599477586636800

It won't be like mania. In mania, combo does not matter at all. We do not plan that. Rather, we just want to take away the weightening of combo >> all. Combo will have a significant impact, but it won't be exponentially outgrowing the score, so even if your accuracy is shit, you will be like miles ahead of people who just missed once. However, combo will definitely matter, we just adjust the balance between how heavy Combo impacts the score and how you can compensate singular drops by accuracy instead.
uee

Loctav wrote:

Mr Color wrote:

Well, I take it you have enough people that you don't need me anymore then, godspeed o\
We didn't need you for past 3 world cups. So, no. You can resume playing steam games now.
Bit of a harsh thing to say to the person who did the majority of the commentating of the last few years, is it not?

Still, looking forward to this year! Will we be getting any pro players commentating like last year? That would be good.
Musty
Thanks for the clarification Loctav, it seems interesting then.
Kert
I'd listen to Mr.Color every OWC
Please continue
fartownik
Wtf is this thing about Color, he was actually the best commentator with at least some knowledge about the standard players for all past tournaments.

Btw, you should consider taking in some new commentators. People like Evrien, lolimonz, Doomsday and others were really great during the All-Star tournament that took place not long time ago and could bring some great quality into this tournament as well.
Cyclohexane

Loctav wrote:

Mr Color wrote:

Well, I take it you have enough people that you don't need me anymore then, godspeed o\
We didn't need you for past 3 world cups. So, no. You can resume playing steam games now.
But I don't even have steam!
juankristal

Deif wrote:

OWC Group Stage again NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO D:
HUEHUEHUEHU

Hypeee ! :D:D:D
Topic Starter
Loctav

fartownik wrote:

Wtf is this thing about Color, he was actually the best commentator with at least some knowledge about the standard players for all past tournaments.

Btw, you should consider taking in some new commentators. People like Evrien, lolimonz, Doomsday and others were really great during the All-Star tournament that took place not long time ago and could bring some great quality into this tournament as well.
ztrot is making the final calls here. Make them contact him to sort it out.
Makan1
lets not see a repeat of last year yeah....

hong kong pls no disappoint this year lol
Yauxo
How will the map difficulty be scaled? (Non-)Linear?

Edit to clarify (examples):
4.8 5.0 5.2 5.4 5.6 or 4.5 4.7 5.0 5.4 5.9?
Cherry Blossom

Yauxo wrote:

How will the map difficulty be scaled? (Non-)Linear?
We're working on it, I can't really say anything for now.
But yes, like past OWCs, it will be linear.
AmaiHachimitsu

Loctav wrote:

You should wait until we actually release how the scoring works before you make assumptions about it.
Probably PP-oriented system.
While it could be kind of "fair", it would ruin the viewing experience.

Also


Like, seriously, can I commentate too?
Topic Starter
Loctav

AmaiHachimitsu wrote:

Loctav wrote:

You should wait until we actually release how the scoring works before you make assumptions about it.
Probably PP-oriented system.
While it could be kind of "fair", it would ruin the viewing experience.

Also


Like, seriously, can I commentate too?
Like I said, ask ztrot
Xilver15
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Catgirl
now implement this scoring system for non-tournament scenarios in standard and ctb please
Winner

Decon082 wrote:

now implement this scoring system for non-tournament scenarios in standard and ctb please
I think it's a bit too late for that. Would have to wipe all scores on leaderboards or make an entirely new leaderboard. :o
EtienneXC

Winner wrote:

Decon082 wrote:

now implement this scoring system for non-tournament scenarios in standard and ctb please
I think it's a bit too late for that. Would have to wipe all scores on leaderboards or make an entirely new leaderboard. :o
At least the new system will reflect skill a lot more.

Anyways, the USA bois better bring it home <3
Minhtam

Winner wrote:

Decon082 wrote:

now implement this scoring system for non-tournament scenarios in standard and ctb please
I think it's a bit too late for that. Would have to wipe all scores on leaderboards or make an entirely new leaderboard. :o
I wouldn't mind that at all. It would give me an excuse to play some of my favorite maps again to solidify my fundamentals. Not to mention I'll capitalize on the player base rage quitting because I'm so anti-meta.
Bauxe

Xilver wrote:

May I please ask for the logic behind captains being selected by the management team and not by the team itself? Not trying to start anything, I just don't particularly agree with that decision and I'd like to hear your line of reasoning behind it.

Even if it's a temporary pick, I'm assuming the reason you pick the captain is for the captain to choose a team, right?
Probably because the team isn't exactly being pre-picked by the country. Since all registrations are individual, they probably want to pick someone who they don't think will choose teammates based on personal bias (ie. picking friends over better players).

Maybe I'm completely wrong though.

edit: also the country-picked captain might not be able to play which would cause confusion (since no more captain).
LoGo
I hope this time if there is some kind of issue with players that will be messaged at MAX like 1 week after registration not after 22 days.
tfg50
ACC =O. My time to shine! LETS GO BRAZIL WE NEED TO WIN SOMETHING AFTER THE GROUP STAGE
CXu

Bauxe wrote:

Xilver wrote:

May I please ask for the logic behind captains being selected by the management team and not by the team itself? Not trying to start anything, I just don't particularly agree with that decision and I'd like to hear your line of reasoning behind it.

Even if it's a temporary pick, I'm assuming the reason you pick the captain is for the captain to choose a team, right?
Probably because the team isn't exactly being pre-picked by the country. Since all registrations are individual, they probably want to pick someone who they don't think will choose teammates based on personal bias (ie. picking friends over better players).

Maybe I'm completely wrong though.

edit: also the country-picked captain might not be able to play which would cause confusion (since no more captain).
Speaking of which, does the temporary captain have to end up in the team? If a country has decided (in their forum section or channel or tournament etc.) whom to select for their team, and the captain chosen isn't among any of them, would this temporary captain be able to pick the 8 players and then not participate themselves?
Evrien
Just wanna say good luck to the management team and thanks for putting effort in revolutionizing the tournament structure. Hope all goes well! I however would like to show some concern for the $5,000 prize pool since it's quite big...really. All-Star promised a $500 one and that was already considered grand-scale. Why $5,000 if I may ask?
Te Amo
Just want to clarify something, if i have proof that i am from Mexico does that make me eligable at all to play for the Mexican team or do i have to try to play for the country i reside in?
Minhtam

KevEz wrote:

Just want to clarify something, if i have proof that i am from Mexico does that make me eligable at all to play for the Mexican team or do i have to try to play for the country i reside in?
https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Help_Center

Based off of what I'm looking at, it is proof of residency. So if you really are from Mexico, that would mean that you could technically play for Mexico, provided you own a home there and you have a Mexican ID.
Professor Gila
hey, can i ask something?

can the captains ask themselves to switch out for a moment? for example, after a captain picks a map, a captain (either from red side or blue side) ask to switch out for a moment
Athrun

Makan1 wrote:

lets not see a repeat of last year yeah....

hong kong pls no disappoint this year lol
Hong Kong hype!

But no SiLviZ ;W;

Evrien wrote:

Just wanna say good luck to the management team and thanks for putting effort in revolutionizing the tournament structure. Hope all goes well! I however would like to show some concern for the $5,000 prize pool since it's quite big...really. All-Star promised a $500 one and that was already considered grand-scale. Why $5,000 if I may ask?
Didn't osu become an esport? No?

*takes my leave*
Professor Gila
guess $5000 is enough :o

<div id="thug-life"></div>
Bauxe

Evrien wrote:

Just wanna say good luck to the management team and thanks for putting effort in revolutionizing the tournament structure. Hope all goes well! I however would like to show some concern for the $5,000 prize pool since it's quite big...really. All-Star promised a $500 one and that was already considered grand-scale. Why $5,000 if I may ask?
OWC is on a completely different level to All-Star. Pretty sure most of the All-Star games only got a few hundred viewers, OWC gets easily into the thousands (I think it even went above 10,000 in the grand final last year?).
Cyclohexane

Bauxe wrote:

Evrien wrote:

Just wanna say good luck to the management team and thanks for putting effort in revolutionizing the tournament structure. Hope all goes well! I however would like to show some concern for the $5,000 prize pool since it's quite big...really. All-Star promised a $500 one and that was already considered grand-scale. Why $5,000 if I may ask?
OWC is on a completely different level to All-Star. Pretty sure most of the All-Star games only got a few hundred viewers, OWC gets easily into the thousands (I think it even went above 10,000 in the grand final last year?).
We topped at 13k, if I'm remembering correctly.
Topic Starter
Loctav
Captains are a sole communication medium.
Captains do not need to end up in the team ultimatively, neither do they have to be present at every match. If our declared captain does want to play, they can pick 8 different players and declare a different captain.
Considering that in the past, all teams were created in a community consensus by figuring out together who will be in the team, we trust in the same mechanic here. Even if the captain delivers us the final player list and received the candidate list, most of them will decide by asking around instead of picking from their guts. Many will open a discussion publicly and make it a group decision as it always was. The only remnant is that the declared captain is our messenger.

We had several issues in particular communities being super bitchy about who is the captain, who gets in the team, even forming two parallel teams and I had to decide who ends up in the cup. This is bullshit and pointless drama. (Right Ryosuke-? You were causing this bullcrap in France last year)

Declaring captains as messenger and (in some cases) final call makers, we can avoid any sort of needless team creation drama and make everything run smoothly and fair. We always aim to pick captains that are reasonable, accessible and totally not focused on their circle jerk only. Being captain in the past without issues promotes you for the position, but does not guarantee it. The choices of captains will land on people that we consider to make the most fair and organized decision.

The individual registrations allow us to do the rule violation checks without crushing team rosters over and over again. We can avoid the entire hassle and move the team creation AFTER everyone was filtered. This avoids the 500 times of "I fixed my roster, here is the new". With this new approach, you can only pick from the candidates list and your team will be safe to be created in any case.
Moreover it allows countries to form teams that would otherwise never be able to create a team, because they are unaware of each other. We had potential teams of Mongolia, Israel, Venezuela, Vietnam and other places in the previous world cups.

Ah yeah, the only downside is, when less than 8 people pass the filters for a country. Usually the countries are weaker and maybe don't end up in the last 32, but sometimes they do. Then all players just get mocked up in one team and we declare a captain, but as always, they can switch around this position as they want. If you have less than 8 people in your country validly registering, there is not much to choose from a list...

OWC Grand Finals peaked in Twitch at #5 most viewed worldwide across all games and peaked momentarily to 16-20,000 viewers, having over 150 000 unique viewers across the entire tournament. (I should recheck that, I don't have the numbers in mind anymore)
AmaiHachimitsu
1 Month supporter for 3rd place never forget OWC 2013
buny
Can we try get two map pools for the finals this time?

It kind of sucks watching the two finalists go through the same map pools in the second game
Topic Starter
Loctav
We are planning with one mappool for both weeks.
Minhtam

buny wrote:

Can we try get two map pools for the finals this time?

It kind of sucks watching the two finalists go through the same map pools in the second game
Would be really hard to do with the lack of 6.5* maps around.
He Ang CTB

Decon082 wrote:

now implement this scoring system for non-tournament scenarios in standard and ctb please
Well I think CTB works well with both Combo-dominated and Accuracy-dominated scoring system D: Since a droplet is worth as much accuracy as an actual fruit combo, it's not fair for people who caught the combos in rhythm and lose some droplets due to control issue and get penalised equally as someone who lost rhythm and caught the droplets, that kind of defeats the purpose of a rhythm game. But on the flip side, people take accuracy in CTB for granted since literally a it has the least score value of only 10, thus many players can just blatantly ignore droplets all they want, they can miss a thousand droplets and have one combo more and still be ahead than another player with no droplet misses but 1 combo less, that's like in Osu!Standard terms, a 1000 combo map FC'ed with 1000 50s would still weigh millions ahead of a 999 combo of 300s with a miss at the end, accuracy shouldn't be disregarded as the least important factor in any game mode, also not to mention on maps like Yoiyami Hanabi SS is a whole lot better than S and should be awarded as accordingly when people are skilled enough to catch all the little things.

My long wall of text opinion as always D:
He Ang CTB
I have an idea about the Accuracy VS Combo weightage adjustment!! How about we have some formular that goes similarly to:
(Percentage Accuracy)^20 x Map Score x SS Bonus (1.06 times score multiplier) = Final Score

E.g. Team A = Players 1 to 4 Team B = Players 5 to 8

Player 1:
Map Score: 10,000,000 (no miss + a few 100s)
Accuracy: 98.32% (98.32%^20 = 0.71258618367)
Final Score: 7,125,862

Player 2:
Map Score: 10,170,871 (SS)
Accuracy: 100.00% (x1.06)
Final Score: 10,781,123

Player 3:
Map Score: 9,758,951 (no miss + full of 100s & 50s B rank)
Accuracy: 95.95% (95.95%^20 = 0.43742095198)
Final Score: 4,268,770

Player 4: (Disconnected)
Map Score: 0
Accuracy: 0.00%
Final Score: 0

Team A Total Score: 22,176,755

Player 5:
Map Score: 10,156,632 (no miss + 1 less 100 than Player 1)
Accuracy: 98.55% (98.55%^20 = 0.74667665341)
Final Score: 7,583,720

Player 6:
Map Score: 7,900,000 (1x miss + all 300s)
Accuracy: 99.86% (99.86%^20 = 0.97236929036)
Final Score: 7,681,717

Player 7:
Map Score: 7,900,000 (1x miss + all 300s)
Accuracy: 99.86% (99.86%^20 = 0.97236929036)
Final Score: 7,681,717

Player 8: (Failed)
Map Score: 0
Accuracy: 0.00%
Final Score: 0

Team B Total Score: 22,947,154

Team B wins the map by 770,399 points \o/ (3.47% more score than Team A)

The numerical values of the multipliers and exponents and even the format & functions etc are not fixed XD They are just random examples of how having a formular that evens out the Combo VS Accuracy power struggle can make the matches themselves and their end results contain more suspense and anticipation, thus more exciting and unexpected :3
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