Do you guys believe humans have free will? Do you think knowing if humans have free will would have any larger societal impact? Would you care if you had free will or not?
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Topic Starter
as far as I know the universe isn't deterministic, so while I don't think we have free will in the purest sense, it's at least not predictible.
Now, if we knew the answer, would it really matter?, I really don't think it would matter, let's say the answer is that there is no such thing as a free will, how am I meant to respond?, do I stop eating and sleeping?, do I stop playing videgaomes?, do I start listening to playboi carti?, no, life goes on, I may be depressed for a while but like in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter at all.
Now, if we knew the answer, would it really matter?, I really don't think it would matter, let's say the answer is that there is no such thing as a free will, how am I meant to respond?, do I stop eating and sleeping?, do I stop playing videgaomes?, do I start listening to playboi carti?, no, life goes on, I may be depressed for a while but like in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter at all.
No.
(Absolute) Free will would mean we can make decisions without any exterior influence, that would imply that your experiences, your culture or even what you know/don't know have no impact on the way you think. It's obvious that when you think of something/make a decision you do it based on those things.
It would also make any form of manipulation ineffective, ads wouldn't exist as your decision to buy something wouldn't be dependent on you knowing about it and definitely couldn't subconsciously make you more likely to buy something.
It would also mean that either mental disorders don't exist or that only neurotypicals have free will somehow.
That doesn't mean the human mind is entirely deterministic, and if it is it still wouldn't be predictable as the brain is basically the most complex thing in the known universe. While we are influenced by everything around us we do have some control over our mind. That's how we're able to create stuff, and make decisions that aren't purely based on an emotional response/stimuli. It's kind of the whole point of consciousness.
Knowing for certain would make no difference, people would still choose to believe whatever they want. Some lie to themselves to believe stuff they know is wrong. Like flat eathers and shit.
(Absolute) Free will would mean we can make decisions without any exterior influence, that would imply that your experiences, your culture or even what you know/don't know have no impact on the way you think. It's obvious that when you think of something/make a decision you do it based on those things.
It would also make any form of manipulation ineffective, ads wouldn't exist as your decision to buy something wouldn't be dependent on you knowing about it and definitely couldn't subconsciously make you more likely to buy something.
It would also mean that either mental disorders don't exist or that only neurotypicals have free will somehow.
That doesn't mean the human mind is entirely deterministic, and if it is it still wouldn't be predictable as the brain is basically the most complex thing in the known universe. While we are influenced by everything around us we do have some control over our mind. That's how we're able to create stuff, and make decisions that aren't purely based on an emotional response/stimuli. It's kind of the whole point of consciousness.
Knowing for certain would make no difference, people would still choose to believe whatever they want. Some lie to themselves to believe stuff they know is wrong. Like flat eathers and shit.
Here's how I look at free will.
Your role in life is pre-determined based upon your birthday, and other factors you can't control. What you do with your role is upon you. That is where free will comes into play, but ultimately, most of your life is already decided for you.
Your role in life is pre-determined based upon your birthday, and other factors you can't control. What you do with your role is upon you. That is where free will comes into play, but ultimately, most of your life is already decided for you.
While I don't necessarily 100% agree with him here, this reminds me of this video that I saw a number of months ago.
I'm thinking that there's enough randomness and entropy in the universe that it's similar to what Patatitta said. While the sum of my experiences together with my genetic makeup probably make most of what I do on a day-to-day basis deterministic, I also think there's enough non-determinism in the universe that I still have to make decisions that have equal probability of being chosen fairly regularly. Perhaps it's in those decisions that the concept of a soul resides.
I remember also disagreeing with him based on some other philosophical concepts (Platonic ones, iirc?), but I can't remember what they were right now 'cause I'm tired as shit from sleeping like ass last night.
I don't think so, the law of physics makes everything deterministic (e.g. such conditions -> such consequences). But on the good side we can't predict the mental of humans (or every animal) and their actions, probably too many factors, and we can't probably measure some of them. Even with an AI neuronal network, good luck explaining the output with the neurons only. So I'd say there's an illusion of free will, as we can't predict what going on on our brains.
What did he do?
What did Will do again?
regardless if people think you can do whatever or you don't have any free will, it's impossible to predict where you'll ultimately end up
Q: Do you guys believe humans have free will?
A: Hell no... Or at least not that many. 99.89% of humans, I believe don't have free will.
Q: Do you think knowing if humans have free will would have any larger societal impact?
A: Let's say if they did have free will then yes it might have a large impact on society. But just knowing? I'd pretty much just go about my day.
Q: Would you care if you had free will or not?
A: I honestly don't know lol
A: Hell no... Or at least not that many. 99.89% of humans, I believe don't have free will.
Q: Do you think knowing if humans have free will would have any larger societal impact?
A: Let's say if they did have free will then yes it might have a large impact on society. But just knowing? I'd pretty much just go about my day.
Q: Would you care if you had free will or not?
A: I honestly don't know lol
are you part of the 0.11% that have free will?CLICKMACHINE wrote:
Q: Do you guys believe humans have free will?
A: Hell no... Or at least not that many. 99.89% of humans, I believe don't have free will.
Q: Do you think knowing if humans have free will would have any larger societal impact?
A: Let's say if they did have free will then yes it might have a large impact on society. But just knowing? I'd pretty much just go about my day.
Q: Would you care if you had free will or not?
A: I honestly don't know lol
Yes 🗿Patatitta wrote:
are you part of the 0.11% that have free will?CLICKMACHINE wrote:
Q: Do you guys believe humans have free will?
A: Hell no... Or at least not that many. 99.89% of humans, I believe don't have free will.
I don't believe people have free will...at least, I don't have it. Just having a fever can affect me mentally. The last time I had a fever, a high-BPM music kept playing in my head. I tried to stop it, but I couldn't.
Topic Starter
Do you think there might be arguments like "if humans don't have free will then it's not there fault they did X crime". I could see some sort of philosophical debates along those lines pop up. I could also see some people becoming overly cynical over the fact free will doesn't exist. I agree with you that it's pretty pointless to care about it, but people would still definitely would.Patatitta wrote:
as far as I know the universe isn't deterministic, so while I don't think we have free will in the purest sense, it's at least not predictible.
Now, if we knew the answer, would it really matter?, I really don't think it would matter, let's say the answer is that there is no such thing as a free will, how am I meant to respond?, do I stop eating and sleeping?, do I stop playing videgaomes?, do I start listening to playboi carti?, no, life goes on, I may be depressed for a while but like in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter at all.
Fair point. I am addressing free will from the perspective of humans minds being deterministic (or extremely predictable). Although we humans barely understand the brain, we have made predictive AI models which estimate what action you will do in the near future using your current brain activity. Now does this mean humans don't have free will? No. About creativity there is also a argument that humans are uncapable of creating completely original concepts from nothing but instead we are able to remix information in unique ways to generate original ideas. (kinda like GenAI). Anyways I do agree that people would most likely just keep believing whatever they want even if incorrect. (I wonder what is a evolutionary reason for that?)Karmine wrote:
No.
(Absolute) Free will would mean we can make decisions without any exterior influence, that would imply that your experiences, your culture or even what you know/don't know have no impact on the way you think. It's obvious that when you think of something/make a decision you do it based on those things.
It would also make any form of manipulation ineffective, ads wouldn't exist as your decision to buy something wouldn't be dependent on you knowing about it and definitely couldn't subconsciously make you more likely to buy something.
It would also mean that either mental disorders don't exist or that only neurotypicals have free will somehow.
That doesn't mean the human mind is entirely deterministic, and if it is it still wouldn't be predictable as the brain is basically the most complex thing in the known universe. While we are influenced by everything around us we do have some control over our mind. That's how we're able to create stuff, and make decisions that aren't purely based on an emotional response/stimuli. It's kind of the whole point of consciousness.
Knowing for certain would make no difference, people would still choose to believe whatever they want. Some lie to themselves to believe stuff they know is wrong. Like flat eathers and shit.
Interesting take. So if I am born to be the president will I be president no matter what I try to do? By how much can I change my pre-determined fate?Neigdoig wrote:
Here's how I look at free will.
Your role in life is pre-determined based upon your birthday, and other factors you can't control. What you do with your role is upon you. That is where free will comes into play, but ultimately, most of your life is already decided for you.
Wait so are you saying that there is a illusion of free will (meaning we actually don't have it we think we do) because we can't predict our brain states? Can you please elaborate?Corne2Plum3 wrote:
I don't think so, the law of physics makes everything deterministic (e.g. such conditions -> such consequences). But on the good side we can't predict the mental of humans (or every animal) and their actions, probably too many factors, and we can't probably measure some of them. Even with an AI neuronal network, good luck explaining the output with the neurons only. So I'd say there's an illusion of free will, as we can't predict what going on on our brains.
He didn't wipe after shitting. promptly he got arrestedYmir wrote:
What did he do?
In practice yes but maybe in theory it might be possible, which would make a strong argument against it.z0z wrote:
regardless if people think you can do whatever or you don't have any free will, it's impossible to predict where you'll ultimately end up
I can believe I am talking you a free willed individual ( i am part of the 99.89%)CLICKMACHINE wrote:
Q: Do you guys believe humans have free will?
A: Hell no... Or at least not that many. 99.89% of humans, I believe don't have free will.
Q: Do you think knowing if humans have free will would have any larger societal impact?
A: Let's say if they did have free will then yes it might have a large impact on society. But just knowing? I'd pretty much just go about my day.
Q: Would you care if you had free will or not?
A: I honestly don't know lol
too many words, i sleep
of course people will claim that, but I think it's fucking stupid, if people say it it's because it's a good excuse. It literally doesn't change anything, let's say I kil someone and say "it was fate lmao can't do anything about it", would the police let him go??? no, they wouldn't. The reason we lock people up is so they don't do more crimes. If it's your fate to kill people that's literally more reason to lock you up.hyperastro wrote:
Do you think there might be arguments like "if humans don't have free will then it's not there fault they did X crime". I could see some sort of philosophical debates along those lines pop up. I could also see some people becoming overly cynical over the fact free will doesn't exist. I agree with you that it's pretty pointless to care about it, but people would still definitely would.Patatitta wrote:
as far as I know the universe isn't deterministic, so while I don't think we have free will in the purest sense, it's at least not predictible.
Now, if we knew the answer, would it really matter?, I really don't think it would matter, let's say the answer is that there is no such thing as a free will, how am I meant to respond?, do I stop eating and sleeping?, do I stop playing videgaomes?, do I start listening to playboi carti?, no, life goes on, I may be depressed for a while but like in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter at all.
You just got to keep living like you always did because life doesn't end even if you know you don't have free will. It also doesn't mean you should stop thinking or give up in life since whatever happens is fate. Fate means that whatever you choose, you were bound to choose it. However, you can't predict what is going to happen in the future, so like, you still got to think about stuff.
In fact, in a sense it would be almost good to know there is no thing as free will. I feel a lot of people would ease out on the regrets knowing that if they lived the same life 1000 times they would have doen the same thing in all of them.
Everyone has free will. But not all of those wills can be made into a reality.
It depends on the definition of free will. I think the concept most people imagine doesn't reflect reality.
... Ok, reading the posts above, it seems that many have different concepts of free will, but the definition I'm going to assume is the most common is that we have free will since the future is not determined BECAUSE we all can make conscious choices (that haven't happened yet).
While the future isn't 100% determined, free will is not quite the reason, and I'll explain why I think so.
If I'm not mistaken, the prevailing view is that the universe is mostly deterministic but also subject to quantum indeterminacy. Therefore, even a being with supreme calculating capacity that knew the position, velocity, and direction of all atoms wouldn't be able to predict exactly what you will do tomorrow (due to the quantum indeterminacy, not free will). But of course that doesn't mean you actually control it, at least not in the sense (I think) most people understand free will. In my view, this simply means we should rethink our concept of free will, since the current one isn't accurate. I believe it would be interesting if we could develop a new concept of free will that is both correct and practically useful. But wait... can a concept of free will actually have practical value?
If, according to a definition, everyone has it, or no one does, I don't see much practical value in the concept.
Think of it this way:
If, according to another definition, only some people have it, then it might have some practical value, but I can't see it being anything other than problematic and unethical.
From my perspective, this makes discussions about free will kind of irrelevant for practical purposes, regardless of the definition. Of course, this doesn't (and shouldn't) stop anyone from thinking about the topic (as we are doing now), since thinking is never bad, and it's not like we should only reflect about something if thinking about it has obvious practical benefits.
Now, one might ask: "Oh, but then we can justify anything we do!"
Well, if someone commits a crime, like killing someone, it doesn't change the fact that if we all went around killing others, society would fall into chaos (and that's bad, no one wants that). Therefore, if things such as killing others were not a crime, society would collapse. That's why ethics and laws exist, and the absence of free will wouldn't change anything. Thus, crimes would continue to exist, and so would punishments for them. Also, regardless of whether free will exists or not, there will always be people trying to rationalize their actions and thoughts.
TL;DR: Do humans have free will? It depends on the definition of free will. Is our definition of free will important? No, it doesn't matter if, according to your definition, we all have it or all do not, or even if only some have it (but this one is most likely problematic), since this won't change anything. Also, ethics and laws would still exist, and nothing would change on this matter.
... Ok, reading the posts above, it seems that many have different concepts of free will, but the definition I'm going to assume is the most common is that we have free will since the future is not determined BECAUSE we all can make conscious choices (that haven't happened yet).
While the future isn't 100% determined, free will is not quite the reason, and I'll explain why I think so.
If I'm not mistaken, the prevailing view is that the universe is mostly deterministic but also subject to quantum indeterminacy. Therefore, even a being with supreme calculating capacity that knew the position, velocity, and direction of all atoms wouldn't be able to predict exactly what you will do tomorrow (due to the quantum indeterminacy, not free will). But of course that doesn't mean you actually control it, at least not in the sense (I think) most people understand free will. In my view, this simply means we should rethink our concept of free will, since the current one isn't accurate. I believe it would be interesting if we could develop a new concept of free will that is both correct and practically useful. But wait... can a concept of free will actually have practical value?
If, according to a definition, everyone has it, or no one does, I don't see much practical value in the concept.
Think of it this way:
- Suppose we all have free will. Now what? What will you do with this information? You will be happy about it for the next 1 minute and then forget about it and live your life normally.
- Now, suppose no one has it. What will you do with this information? You will be sad about it for the next 24 hours and then forget about it and live your life normally.
If, according to another definition, only some people have it, then it might have some practical value, but I can't see it being anything other than problematic and unethical.
From my perspective, this makes discussions about free will kind of irrelevant for practical purposes, regardless of the definition. Of course, this doesn't (and shouldn't) stop anyone from thinking about the topic (as we are doing now), since thinking is never bad, and it's not like we should only reflect about something if thinking about it has obvious practical benefits.
Now, one might ask: "Oh, but then we can justify anything we do!"
Well, if someone commits a crime, like killing someone, it doesn't change the fact that if we all went around killing others, society would fall into chaos (and that's bad, no one wants that). Therefore, if things such as killing others were not a crime, society would collapse. That's why ethics and laws exist, and the absence of free will wouldn't change anything. Thus, crimes would continue to exist, and so would punishments for them. Also, regardless of whether free will exists or not, there will always be people trying to rationalize their actions and thoughts.
TL;DR: Do humans have free will? It depends on the definition of free will. Is our definition of free will important? No, it doesn't matter if, according to your definition, we all have it or all do not, or even if only some have it (but this one is most likely problematic), since this won't change anything. Also, ethics and laws would still exist, and nothing would change on this matter.
Topic Starter
Like 99% of all other philosophical arguments free will has no practical purpose. But I want to ask you, why is everyone having free will vs everyone not having free will make the concept irrelevant for discussion. Imagine the existential dread billions would feel as they realize that they have no actual control in there action that they as a person are just a result of a deterministic system. Looking at it the other way imagine how happy people would be knowing that they do have a purpose and that they can control their actions without being victims of a deterministic system. (less people would feel this way because I feel like most of us already assume we have free will). As you and Patatitta said nothing would change in practice most people would keep living their life normally, but I think it's not fair to say that the answer to such a profound (although useless) question would have no long lasting impact on society as a whole.Behrauder wrote:
It depends on the definition of free will. I think the concept most people imagine doesn't reflect reality.
... Ok, reading the posts above, it seems that many have different concepts of free will, but the definition I'm going to assume is the most common is that we have free will since the future is not determined BECAUSE we all can make conscious choices (that haven't happened yet).
While the future isn't 100% determined, free will is not quite the reason, and I'll explain why I think so.
If I'm not mistaken, the prevailing view is that the universe is mostly deterministic but also subject to quantum indeterminacy. Therefore, even a being with supreme calculating capacity that knew the position, velocity, and direction of all atoms wouldn't be able to predict exactly what you will do tomorrow (due to the quantum indeterminacy, not free will). But of course that doesn't mean you actually control it, at least not in the sense (I think) most people understand free will. In my view, this simply means we should rethink our concept of free will, since the current one isn't accurate. I believe it would be interesting if we could develop a new concept of free will that is both correct and practically useful. But wait... can a concept of free will actually have practical value?
If, according to a definition, everyone has it, or no one does, I don't see much practical value in the concept.
Think of it this way:Again: if, according to a definition, everyone has it, or no one does, I don't see much practical value in the concept.
- Suppose we all have free will. Now what? What will you do with this information? You will be happy about it for the next 1 minute and then forget about it and live your life normally.
- Now, suppose no one has it. What will you do with this information? You will be sad about it for the next 24 hours and then forget about it and live your life normally.
If, according to another definition, only some people have it, then it might have some practical value, but I can't see it being anything other than problematic and unethical.
From my perspective, this makes discussions about free will kind of irrelevant for practical purposes, regardless of the definition. Of course, this doesn't (and shouldn't) stop anyone from thinking about the topic (as we are doing now), since thinking is never bad, and it's not like we should only reflect about something if thinking about it has obvious practical benefits.
Now, one might ask: "Oh, but then we can justify anything we do!"
Well, if someone commits a crime, like killing someone, it doesn't change the fact that if we all went around killing others, society would fall into chaos (and that's bad, no one wants that). Therefore, if things such as killing others were not a crime, society would collapse. That's why ethics and laws exist, and the absence of free will wouldn't change anything. Thus, crimes would continue to exist, and so would punishments for them. Also, regardless of whether free will exists or not, there will always be people trying to rationalize their actions and thoughts.
TL;DR: Do humans have free will? It depends on the definition of free will. Is our definition of free will important? No, it doesn't matter if, according to your definition, we all have it or all do not, or even if only some have it (but this one is most likely problematic), since this won't change anything. Also, ethics and laws would still exist, and nothing would change on this matter.
Yeah I agree with you. A lot of people would find some sort of comfort. But I think that would also stunt peoples growths as individuals as instead of regretting what they did, they would think to themselves that they had no real choice on the matter.Patatitta wrote:
of course people will claim that, but I think it's fucking stupid, if people say it it's because it's a good excuse. It literally doesn't change anything, let's say I kil someone and say "it was fate lmao can't do anything about it", would the police let him go??? no, they wouldn't. The reason we lock people up is so they don't do more crimes. If it's your fate to kill people that's literally more reason to lock you up.hyperastro wrote:
Do you think there might be arguments like "if humans don't have free will then it's not there fault they did X crime". I could see some sort of philosophical debates along those lines pop up. I could also see some people becoming overly cynical over the fact free will doesn't exist. I agree with you that it's pretty pointless to care about it, but people would still definitely would.Patatitta wrote:
as far as I know the universe isn't deterministic, so while I don't think we have free will in the purest sense, it's at least not predictible.
Now, if we knew the answer, would it really matter?, I really don't think it would matter, let's say the answer is that there is no such thing as a free will, how am I meant to respond?, do I stop eating and sleeping?, do I stop playing videgaomes?, do I start listening to playboi carti?, no, life goes on, I may be depressed for a while but like in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter at all.
You just got to keep living like you always did because life doesn't end even if you know you don't have free will. It also doesn't mean you should stop thinking or give up in life since whatever happens is fate. Fate means that whatever you choose, you were bound to choose it. However, you can't predict what is going to happen in the future, so like, you still got to think about stuff.
In fact, in a sense it would be almost good to know there is no thing as free will. I feel a lot of people would ease out on the regrets knowing that if they lived the same life 1000 times they would have doen the same thing in all of them.
This is insanely wrong, If i'm reading this right, you're saying that most philosophical arugments have no practical purpose. This is really not the case. Will it help you build a table?, not directly no, however, everyone has a philosophy, and understanding and studying philosophy can help us refine our internal philosophy which directly affects all the choice that we make, so in that regard, it's a pretty big deal. Believing there exists free will or not can heavily change your outlook in life for example.hyperastro wrote:
Like 99% of all other philosophical arguments free will has no practical purpose.
Actually, if you don't think there is a practical use for it, what use do you give thought experiments like this, just purely theorical?, what's your endgame with asking questions like this, just making a interesting thread?
I think some philosophies would become more popular than others, sure, but idk, I do think people will just adapt. You're thinking about the big shock, but how about 100 years in the future?, 200 years in the future?, will society after adapting to that new information look the same as it does now? I think yes, some stuff would be different, but I think the big picture would still be the same. Keep in mind that free will is just another of the hundreds of question about life and the universe. Even if you think there exists free will now, and it's proven that it doesn't, I bet a lot of people would find a way to rationalize that into their life philosophy, making it not change as much. I think you would need to solve even more of the life's biggest misteries to really make a BIG impact down the roadhyperastro wrote:
But I want to ask you, why is everyone having free will vs everyone not having free will make the concept irrelevant for discussion. Imagine the existential dread billions would feel as they realize that they have no actual control in there action that they as a person are just a result of a deterministic system. Looking at it the other way imagine how happy people would be knowing that they do have a purpose and that they can control their actions without being victims of a deterministic system. (less people would feel this way because I feel like most of us already assume we have free will). As you and Patatitta said nothing would change in practice most people would keep living their life normally, but I think it's not fair to say that the answer to such a profound (although useless) question would have no long lasting impact on society as a whole.
I disagree on this front. Do you think you can't grow if you're not feeling that consistent feeling of regret?, that you need a consistent negative emotion for you to make the connection in the brain of "What I did back there wasn't the most optimal"hyperastro wrote:
Yeah I agree with you. A lot of people would find some sort of comfort. But I think that would also stunt peoples growths as individuals as instead of regretting what they did, they would think to themselves that they had no real choice on the matter.
There are a lot of times where I mess up in slight ways, maybe I thought my friends house was on the third floor instead of the second. Do I feel regret at not going directly at the second floor?, no I don't. Have I learnt from that experience and now know they live at the second floor? yes I do.
edit: I just re-read this post and I think there is a way to read in a way that it appears contradictory, "you're saying that it has practical use yet that it wouldn't impact society!". I think that thought experiments like this can alter your worldview and that is important, but I don't think that his specific thought experiment by itself will alter the global worldview enough to where there would be big changes
I feel with philosophy you can't just stop at saying "there exists free will" or "it doesn't". I can say the world is meaningless, sure, that's a philosophical statement, but there are so, so many worldviews that take root on that single sentence, I don't think that free will by itself is enough to really force anyone to follow a specific philosophy, and that most of the current philosophies could survive that confirmation.
Topic Starter
You are miss-representing what I am saying. When I say philosophy has no practical purpose I mean that most philosophical conversations are a immense waste of time. People aren't willing to change their perspective and a lot less their core believes. Most philosophical talks/debates are not a discussion of ideas where people exchange what they believe and don't. But instead they are just rude arguments with the same talking points.Patatitta wrote:
This is insanely wrong, If i'm reading this right, you're saying that most philosophical arugments have no practical purpose. This is really not the case. Will it help you build a table?, not directly no, however, everyone has a philosophy, and understanding and studying philosophy can help us refine our internal philosophy which directly affects all the choice that we make, so in that regard, it's a pretty big deal. Believing there exists free will or not can heavily change your outlook in life for example.
Actually, if you don't think there is a practical use for it, what use do you give thought experiments like this, just purely theorical?, what's your endgame with asking questions like this, just making a interesting thread?
The reason I think philosophy hold little practical value is because people can't be bothered to think for themselves. Most people just adopt a narrative/ideology and go with it. Now I am also guilty of this and it would be stupid to expect people to all waste time of there lives reflecting deeply on moral or philosophical arguments. Hence in my opinion there is little to no value discussing philosophy since you will only here the same takes with the exact same talking points.
Why did I make this thread? I didn't make this thread the engage with people in philosophical arguments but more to hear what they think.
I could not care less about what happens 100 years down the line tbh. When I say a big impact I mean something that would happen within my life-time. And people finding out they have no free will would dramatically change Art, Philosophy and the way we view life. I also think that free-will is one of the most important questions in philosophy more important than the meaning of life. why? because it can actually be given a objective answer.Patatitta wrote:
I think some philosophies would become more popular than others, sure, but idk, I do think people will just adapt. You're thinking about the big shock, but how about 100 years in the future?, 200 years in the future?, will society after adapting to that new information look the same as it does now? I think yes, some stuff would be different, but I think the big picture would still be the same. Keep in mind that free will is just another of the hundreds of question about life and the universe. Even if you think there exists free will now, and it's proven that it doesn't, I bet a lot of people would find a way to rationalize that into their life philosophy, making it not change as much. I think you would need to solve even more of the life's biggest misteries to really make a BIG impact down the road
But yeah I agree with you that 100-200 years later there might not be a big difference.
No, that is not what I am saying. If free will was not real people could do bad things they regret like hurting someone and then try to rationalize it with the fact they don't have free will. If people don't feel regret in these situations they will never grow.Patatitta wrote:
I disagree on this front. Do you think you can't grow if you're not feeling that consistent feeling of regret?, that you need a consistent negative emotion for you to make the connection in the brain of "What I did back there wasn't the most optimal"
There are a lot of times where I mess up in slight ways, maybe I thought my friends house was on the third floor instead of the second. Do I feel regret at not going directly at the second floor?, no I don't. Have I learnt from that experience and now know they live at the second floor? yes I do.
I don't think it would force people to follow a specific philosophy either. But I do think nihilism would probably grow. And new branching philosophies would appear as well.Patatitta wrote:
I feel with philosophy you can't just stop at saying "there exists free will" or "it doesn't". I can say the world is meaningless, sure, that's a philosophical statement, but there are so, so many worldviews that take root on that single sentence, I don't think that free will by itself is enough to really force anyone to follow a specific philosophy, and that most of the current philosophies could survive that confirmation.
free will? from who?
you should clarified we were talking about what happened in our lifetimes. That was a very important detail that was left outhyperastro wrote:
I could not care less about what happens 100 years down the line tbh. When I say a big impact I mean something that would happen within my life-time. And people finding out they have no free will would dramatically change Art, Philosophy and the way we view life. I also think that free-will is one of the most important questions in philosophy more important than the meaning of life. why? because it can actually be given a objective answer.
But yeah I agree with you that 100-200 years later there might not be a big difference.
this isn't different than whawt already happens, a lot of people claim they're on a mission from god or something, having said that, it doesn't save you from the consequences of killing someone.hyperastro wrote:
No, that is not what I am saying. If free will was not real people could do bad things they regret like hurting someone and then try to rationalize it with the fact they don't have free will. If people don't feel regret in these situations they will never grow.
even more words now, how
tapperruiii wrote:
even more words now, how