osu! World Cup 2013 - Discussion Thread

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Wishy
It wasn't harder or anything, I ended up not liking it after 3 plays tbh.

I think this tie-breaker is fine. There are a lot of hard parts, tricky stuff, etc. Also AR 9 can make it tough for some. I find the nomod maps to be way easier compared to it.
Darksonic
Jumping at AR 9 makes the map easier than jumping at AR 8 imo :p
kriers
Luv Letter is at least 3 times harder with hardrock. If you guys want to go through that then be my guest. It's not really that hard if you can read AR9 well, though.
buny

Wishy wrote:

It wasn't harder or anything, I ended up not liking it after 3 plays tbh.

I think this tie-breaker is fine. There are a lot of hard parts, tricky stuff, etc. Also AR 9 can make it tough for some. I find the nomod maps to be way easier compared to it.
roze and raijin no migiude share the same thing in common with the tie breaker and that is that it only has a few hard parts whereas the rest is incredibly easy and free points/accuracy.

i feel like if tie breaker maps are going to be reached, they're going to be determined by who random missed on the most absurd section in the map. If you missed on the jumpy part and the other team didn't, there's absolutely no hope of catching up because the rest of it is free points.

kriers wrote:

Luv Letter is at least 3 times harder with hardrock. If you guys want to go through that then be my guest. It's not really that hard if you can read AR9 well, though.
it's pretty hard to fc hr on 1 play while under pressure, more so it could be a match-changing decision

i don't think many people are going to touch any mods in free mods except for hd.



also according to osutp




of course not implying osutp is accurate or anything
Darksonic
Nah osu!tp has nothing to do here, because that's an average of aim and speed. At the moment of picking maps we aimed for aim rather than speed since we're interested on people showing their better skills instead speed only, like deathstreams or something like that (I'm not saying osu!tp's speed is based on streams only, ofc). Maybe balanced level maps could fit better but it's hard to find something like that which can fit on the pool.

Example, Rin's map is level 78 because it speed only (84), some of the other maps (tiebreaker included) are based mostly on aim. You probably can find a level 40 map there, which it could be harder than a 60 one, just because in terms of skill: aim >>> speed.
Not sure if I'm right or not but that's my point of wiew at least.
Kert
Please, add variety to future mappools. Nomod maps are all the same, absolutely.
Last year there were maps that had some unique stuff like small circles/2key patterns/long streams/low ar/accuracy wars for teams
But now it's just jumps and streams everywhere
Also some of the nomod maps are quite long so they look like they should be tiebreakers instead of nomods
Metro
Accuracy wars <- how interesting. not.
My Accuracy Sucks

Metro wrote:

Accuracy wars
Damn it.
Darksonic

Kert wrote:

Please, add variety to future mappools. Nomod maps are all the same, absolutely.
All I can say by reading this is just... lol, you can't be serious. As you probably noticed we increased difficulty if we compare the last owcs, and we're only two pickers, with a new one included, so obviously picks won't be the same style. Even if the maps are "all the same" as you say, that doesn't mean each map is the same difficult as other one, there are harders and easiers, fasters and slowers. But picks and variety will change a bit, be sure of that.
Almost

Darksonic wrote:

Kert wrote:

Please, add variety to future mappools. Nomod maps are all the same, absolutely.
All I can say by reading this is just... lol, you can't be serious. As you probably noticed we increased difficulty if we compare the last owcs, and we're only two pickers, with a new one included, so obviously picks won't be the same style. Even if the maps are "all the same" as you say, that doesn't mean each map is the same difficult as other one, there are harders and easiers, fasters and slowers. But picks and variety will change a bit, be sure of that.
But it would be more interesting to watch if the maps had unique traits instead of all being just jumpy and streamy since not all players can play maps that are out of the ordinary well.
smoogipoo

Almost wrote:

But it would be more interesting to watch if the maps had unique traits instead of all being just jumpy and streamy since not all players can play maps that are out of the ordinary well.
I disagree. If you can't play maps that are out of the ordinary well then you shouldn't be in the "osu! World Cup". That's like saying the Olympics should cater for people who have a very low skill level rather than for the most elite, or for players in the SC2 GSL to only play ladder games because they're not used to playing the tough Korean players and their styles.

I want the OWC to test the most elite of players rather than to know that some random player can come close to rrtyui on easier maps. Likewise I want to be tested in this tournament - if you fail at out of the ordinary maps you should practice them more and improve, it's a win-win situation for both the spectators (seeing the players get pushed to their limits) and the players (improving).
Darksonic

Almost wrote:

But it would be more interesting to watch if the maps had unique traits instead of all being just jumpy and streamy since not all players can play maps that are out of the ordinary well.
Actually, for my side I'm planning to look for more variety and more "unique" stuff for the next round so you guys don't have to worry about that, I did and will do the best as possible. I just hope to have enough time since I have to wait until the next week to have my computer back again.
Almost

smoogipooo wrote:

Almost wrote:

But it would be more interesting to watch if the maps had unique traits instead of all being just jumpy and streamy since not all players can play maps that are out of the ordinary well.
I disagree. If you can't play maps that are out of the ordinary well then you shouldn't be in the "osu! World Cup". That's like saying the Olympics should cater for people who have a very low skill level rather than for the most elite, or for players in the SC2 GSL to only play ladder games because they're not used to playing the tough Korean players and their styles.

I want the OWC to test the most elite of players rather than to know that some random player can come close to rrtyui on easier maps. Likewise I want to be tested in this tournament - if you fail at out of the ordinary maps you should practice them more and improve, it's a win-win situation for both the spectators (seeing the players get pushed to their limits) and the players (improving).
Being able to play out of the ordinary maps is a skill of it's own and most people nowadays don't practice those sorts of maps any more since all people care about any more is being able to play fast.
smoogipoo

Almost wrote:

Being able to play out of the ordinary maps is a skill of it's own and most people nowadays don't practice those sorts of maps any more since all people care about any more is being able to play fast.
The good thing about osu! is that great players are all-round players. I've yet to see a top-50 player who is extremely good at one thing but fails horribly in another area if you exclude mods (because there are some people who strictly practice one mod). They're either moderately-good at everything, great at everything, or amazing at everything; with few discrepancies.
I would be thoroughly disappointed if there's a top-50 player who can jump but can't stream, or who can read ar9 jumps but can't aim, or who can stream fast with low accuracy.

Let's rephrase that - luck for different mapping styles should not be a determining factor of skill in this game. If you have to use luck to finish these maps because you're so used to new maps, speeds or w/e, then you're probably doing it wrong. Don't call yourself good at this game just because you can play a select few mapping styles.
Kert

Darksonic wrote:

Actually, for my side I'm planning to look for more variety and more "unique" stuff for the next round so you guys don't have to worry about that, I did and will do the best as possible
Nice to hear that. Looking forward to new maps!
Almost

smoogipooo wrote:

Almost wrote:

Being able to play out of the ordinary maps is a skill of it's own and most people nowadays don't practice those sorts of maps any more since all people care about any more is being able to play fast.
The good thing about osu! is that great players are all-round players. I've yet to see a top-50 player who is extremely good at one thing but fails horribly in another area if you exclude mods (because there are some people who strictly practice one mod). They're either moderately-good at everything, great at everything, or amazing at everything; with few discrepancies.
I would be thoroughly disappointed if there's a top-50 player who can jump but can't stream, or who can read ar9 jumps but can't aim, or who can stream fast with low accuracy.

Let's rephrase that - luck for different mapping styles should not be a determining factor of skill in this game. If you have to use luck to finish these maps because you're so used to new maps, speeds or w/e, then you're probably doing it wrong. Don't call yourself good at this game just because you can play a select few mapping styles.
You don't need luck if you are good at it. If you are used to playing really retarded maps then you probably would screw up less than most. And if that last part was directed at me, I never said I was good at the game nor did I say I was good at a select few mapping styles (I'm actually terrible at them)
Wishy
buny did you know that almost all osu! maps which are not INSANELY HARD are pretty much just about one hard part.
buny

Wishy wrote:

buny did you know that almost all osu! maps which are not INSANELY HARD are pretty much just about one hard part.
yes

don't take it offensively, it's probably very hard to find suitable maps with only 3 selectors this time, and having to change the map with such short notice too.

other than the tie breaker and a few no mod maps this map pool is very nice, as well as the song selection.
Wishy
It's quite hard to find maps which are hard all the way around without them being top tier insanes. Sadly most are about a few hard parts (if not just one). :(

I found quite a lot of actual overall hard maps but they are indeed too hard all the way around, you'll probably see them on later stages tho.
AmaiHachimitsu
How about Scarlet Rose?
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