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Modding v2 feedback / brainstorming thread

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timemon
Beatmap Nominator
1,307 posts
Joined November 2012
timemon
I think when the reward system is implemented, it should probably go back and retroactively give you your hard earned rewards anyway. It's just a matter of when.

As for BN app, I think the requirement will change a bit in case the activity thing is not properly tracked. If you mod regularly, activity shouldn't be even on your mind.

I think when v2 gives kudosu and tracks your activity, most people will probably use it a lot more. (Many people care about their activity and kudosu gain)

Regarding the hype/praise things, I really like it. At least you get a bunch of friends to comment and it can be lively. This also gives opportunity for players to praise and hype the maps they want to see ranked. (They have to mod in v1 which most players aren't interested in doing it) In the end, it's BN who decides to nominate the map. The old SP and hype don't really do much but I prefer 12 ppl commenting the map over 12 SP (which I could easily shoot it myself).
peppy
19,315 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy

timemon wrote:

I think when the reward system is implemented, it should probably go back and retroactively give you your hard earned rewards anyway. It's just a matter of when.


It will.

Kudosu were never really well thought out in the first place, so I'm still working through how to take things moving forward. That said, while it may not be "visible" right now, any mods you apply *will* add to your total modding score when things are finalised. ie. you won't be "losing" any kudosu along the way.

hi-mei wrote:

Pushing something that is in BETA (and not allowing the optional v1) isn't good since it stops the entire mechanism of modding/ranking. People dont want to mod maps cuz they dont get kds for that, as a modder I have 0 will to spend my time for free without any benefits.

In other words, please enable v1 back so I can grind my kds again. Keep it live till v2 will be ready.


It's not in beta, it's live.

Give us a fucking chance to fix the few remaining problems so you can have a better experience.
Last edited by peppy , edited 2 times in total.
peppy
19,315 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy

Noffy wrote:

while white space is important to differentiate different items, the extent to which this is done, as circled in red, is absolutely excessive.


You're generally addressing one point at a time. The whitespace should not be a huge issue once you adjust to it (I can see it taking a while coming from the forums, but give it a chance).

Noffy wrote:

v2 in comparison is a pain in the ass to read through. I can't see how long a modder's post is at a glance, I have to scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll. If i want to look for a specific point without knowing the time it was posted at, i have to scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll. It's inefficient.


If you know what you're looking for, how about using your browser's search function (Ctrl-F)?

Noffy wrote:

It should be possible to see only a specific modder's points at a time. It's already possible to just see posts you made yourself by clicking "mine" so this should be doable.


We're trying to make it less about individual modders and more about general map quality. What is the reason for looking at one person's issues specifically?

Noffy wrote:

ability to sort mod posts either by the timestamp, or the date they were posted. Make the date posted sorting option the default to give an idea of how a map has changed over time.


This doesn't make too much sense. All open issues still need to be resolved equally, right?

Noffy wrote:

give mappers the ability to mark points as irrelevant if a difficulty has been remapped.


You can use resolve for this

Noffy wrote:

add pagination if a difficulty's mod thread has over a certain number of replies, like 20. scrolling through someone's map's thread if it has 100+ points would be hellish.


Why is it hellish? The page performance should survive. Let us know if otherwise.

Noffy wrote:

give mapset host the ability to give other specified users the ability to resolve issues. this would address the current problem with GDers replying and unable to resolve themselves. these other users would be marked as "Guest Mapper" similar to how the host mapper is marked with a green tag.


Eventually we'll support guest mappers, but not just yet.

Noffy wrote:

when scrolling through a thread, the box for posting an issue would remain always visible at the top of the screen. this would make it easier for modders to review other points at close timestamps while reviewing their own, or just to read over the thread in general while writing their mod points. Much better than having to constantly scroll aaaalll the way down to a point, then aaalll the way back up to the box for posting a point.


Definitely

Noffy wrote:

make it possible for a mapper to edit the map description!


This is done from BSS in-game for now.

Noffy wrote:

Also currently, if a difficulty changes beatmap number due to being renamed, or deleted and added back between uploads, all points made on it disappear into an abyss.


Please email me at pe@ppy.sh if this happens. It shouldn't.

Noffy wrote:

I personally detest email notifications and always use the bookmarks page on the current website to keep up with both map threads and other threads such as modding queues I stalk.


Yep, optional email alerts will definitely be coming.

Noffy wrote:

modv2 is completely fucked on the mobile page, why is there even a mobile page if the layout gets so badly messed up? it's much easier to zoom into the desktop version of the page than read this mess.


Have passed this on.
peppy
19,315 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
Short-term focus from our end:

- we probably want to split "resolved" into "accepted" and "rejected" for mappers
- post area needs to be anchored to the top of the screen. already said this multiple times but it needs to happen.
- kudosu upvote cutoffs need to change (1 / 2 /5 instead of insanely high 5/10/15)
- hype only possible after user has played through the beatmap (need client support)
- bookmark/watch threads without email notifications
- mobile site fixes
- optional email alerts when watching a post
Last edited by peppy , edited 1 time in total.
Ascendance
Elite Mapper
4,252 posts
Joined July 2013
Ascendance
please add description editing to that list, there's no way to change the description post-rank, doing it through BSS is a bandaid solution that doesn't work and the ability to see who favorited our maps again thanks
Last edited by Ascendance , edited 1 time in total.
Noffy
Nomination Assessment Team
1,684 posts
Joined April 2012
Noffy
any points not responded to mean i totally understand and will agree that i probably just need to get used to it

peppy wrote:

Noffy wrote:

ability to sort mod posts either by the timestamp, or the date they were posted. Make the date posted sorting option the default to give an idea of how a map has changed over time.
This doesn't make too much sense. All open issues still need to be resolved equally, right?

Noffy wrote:

give mappers the ability to mark points as irrelevant if a difficulty has been remapped.
You can use resolve for this
Both of these points are due to how a map may change significantly during its time in pending, especially if it's from a new mapper. Currently there's no way to differentiate if a point that mod v2 is notifying you of being at the same time is still relevant in its form or from a map several dozen versions ago. This is primarily for modders who may want to review previous modder's points to get a grasp on what other issues have been found and how they may contribute to those discussions.

peppy wrote:

Noffy wrote:

give mapset host the ability to give other specified users the ability to resolve issues. this would address the current problem with GDers replying and unable to resolve themselves. these other users would be marked as "Guest Mapper" similar to how the host mapper is marked with a green tag.
Eventually we'll support guest mappers, but not just yet.

Noffy wrote:

when scrolling through a thread, the box for posting an issue would remain always visible at the top of the screen. this would make it easier for modders to review other points at close timestamps while reviewing their own, or just to read over the thread in general while writing their mod points. Much better than having to constantly scroll aaaalll the way down to a point, then aaalll the way back up to the box for posting a point.
Definitely

Noffy wrote:

I personally detest email notifications and always use the bookmarks page on the current website to keep up with both map threads and other threads such as modding queues I stalk.
Yep, optional email alerts will definitely be coming.
Yay ^^!


peppy wrote:

Noffy wrote:

make it possible for a mapper to edit the map description!
This is done from BSS in-game for now.
Will there be quick buttons on the in-game updater to add formatting in the near future then? Currently adding this through the BSS requires memorization of the forum's code.
peppy
19,315 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
We'll be adding description editing to the new web info pages, but I can't guarantee that it will work post-ranked-state (this allows for potential abuse).
Ascendance
Elite Mapper
4,252 posts
Joined July 2013
Ascendance

peppy wrote:

We'll be adding description editing to the new web info pages, but I can't guarantee that it will work post-ranked-state (this allows for potential abuse).
Mind describing what kind of abuse could come from it? I have no knowledge of this stuff so it helps for me. I'm a mapper who does a lot of information spreading in my descriptions (a pretty good example of what I mean), so being able to edit descriptions at all times is important to me. The main thing that comes from post-ranked beatmap edits is if someone changes their name, a puush link times out, or I forget to write a nomination in the description, it's important to me to change it so that way I can properly convey that stuff. Obviously it's not a 100% life or death issue, but it's very convenient for people like me <:
HappyRocket88
4,322 posts
Joined May 2014
HappyRocket88
Please don't forget formatting! >__<
Noffy
Nomination Assessment Team
1,684 posts
Joined April 2012
Noffy

Ascendance wrote:

peppy wrote:

We'll be adding description editing to the new web info pages, but I can't guarantee that it will work post-ranked-state (this allows for potential abuse).
Mind describing what kind of abuse could come from it? I have no knowledge of this stuff so it helps for me. I'm a mapper who does a lot of information spreading in my descriptions (a pretty good example of what I mean), so being able to edit descriptions at all times is important to me. The main thing that comes from post-ranked beatmap edits is if someone changes their name, a puush link times out, or I forget to write a nomination in the description, it's important to me to change it so that way I can properly convey that stuff. Obviously it's not a 100% life or death issue, but it's very convenient for people like me <:

I definitely agree with Ascendance here.
Doing map series like https://osu.ppy.sh/s/122376 or https://osu.ppy.sh/s/480609 how these and related maps linked in the descriptions all refer to each other would not be as feasible without having the ability to edit maps after rank. It's beneficial for larger projects.
If not, there should be an alternative for these kind of grouped listings (for mappers to make, versus beatmap packs which feature multiple mappers and are curated by others) on the website, as being able to browse and play through big projects like these is pretty fun as a player c:
Last edited by Noffy , edited 1 time in total.
MaridiuS
879 posts
Joined June 2014
Topic Starter
MaridiuS

peppy wrote:

Noffy wrote:

v2 in comparison is a pain in the ass to read through. I can't see how long a modder's post is at a glance, I have to scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll. If i want to look for a specific point without knowing the time it was posted at, i have to scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll. It's inefficient.
If you know what you're looking for, how about using your browser's search function (Ctrl-F)?
I don't think typing "rhythm" or "spacing" could find what I am looking for. Neither can a mapper truly remember the wording of the modder to find it.

peppy wrote:

Noffy wrote:

It should be possible to see only a specific modder's points at a time. It's already possible to just see posts you made yourself by clicking "mine" so this should be doable.
We're trying to make it less about individual modders and more about general map quality. What is the reason for looking at one person's issues specifically?
Hm I was actually talking a lot about this. I think reading through it all might make you more understand, the points are on Cons, original post, 1st and 3rd point somewhat connected and here p/6341022. Adding to it is that modders have certain views. They may try to connect their ideas dynamically and focus in helping the mapper on more general issues, making further points from one modder stronger. In case the mapper receives multiple mods, he will more easily be able to handle from each modder individually. Some people mod passionately with intentions to genuinely try to improve the map, while some are just here like "m4m lol: fix blanket, small spacing here ... this is really good well done, add note?, connect, ^, ^... veri nice map!"


peppy wrote:

Noffy wrote:

add pagination if a difficulty's mod thread has over a certain number of replies, like 20. scrolling through someone's map's thread if it has 100+ points would be hellish.
Why is it hellish? The page performance should survive. Let us know if otherwise.
Think noffy was referring to the idea of scrolling through 100 random points that nobody will really care about. If some issue on the lines of "spacing too big here" was resolved, it means it's not relevant in the map anymore, and we're forced to scroll through multiple posts of these kind. Therefore no reason for the modder to point it out or care about that post while it takes valuable space, compared to an old ~13pixel line. Add 30 of those and it becomes hellish.
hi-mei
784 posts
Joined June 2014
hi-mei

peppy wrote:

Noffy wrote:

It should be possible to see only a specific modder's points at a time. It's already possible to just see posts you made yourself by clicking "mine" so this should be doable.
We're trying to make it less about individual modders and more about general map quality. What is the reason for looking at one person's issues specifically?

Basically, there are people whos very experienced (Shiirn, Okorin, Natsu etc) and there are people who just spams their opinions without any knowledge in mapping.

Yea it sounds a bit uh... unfair but as a mapper (and trust me, its the case for any prominent mapper) sometimes I wanna see only specific person's opinon, instead of scrolling thru the entire thread of mods that might be useless.
Nozhomi
Global Moderator
4,569 posts
Joined May 2013
Nozhomi

MaridiuS wrote:

Think noffy was referring to the idea of scrolling through 100 random points that nobody will really care about. If some issue on the lines of "spacing too big here" was resolved, it means it's not relevant in the map anymore, and we're forced to scroll through multiple posts of these kind. Therefore no reason for the modder to point it out or care about that post while it takes valuable space, compared to an old ~13pixel line. Add 30 of those and it becomes hellish.
Could we have maybe a button to hide resolved issues as map owner ? It would resolve this easily.
Bursthammy
1,254 posts
Joined May 2015
Bursthammy

Nozhomi wrote:

Could we have maybe a button to hide resolved issues as map owner ? It would resolve this easily.
This suggestion is fucking great
Lumenite-
630 posts
Joined April 2015
Lumenite-
better yet, still waiting on a veto button for nominators

granted we can mod for a veto, there’s no way to prevent a map from being qualified in v2... once a map is nominated, most mappers will defend as much as possible to prevent needing a rebubble or whatnot

a huge part of the process is missing, which should probably be more important than marking issues as “resolved” or “rejected”
b00
186 posts
Joined January 2014
b00
As Nozhomi wrote. +1 for being able to hide resolved events. Also I think that maybe a voting system to prioritise different posts would be interesting? :idea:
abraker
Global Moderator
8,327 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

hi-mei wrote:

Basically, there are people whos very experienced (Shiirn, Okorin, Natsu etc) and there are people who just spams their opinions without any knowledge in mapping.

Yea it sounds a bit uh... unfair but as a mapper (and trust me, its the case for any prominent mapper) sometimes I wanna see only specific person's opinon, instead of scrolling thru the entire thread of mods that might be useless.
I believe this is furthering mapping bias and making a less of a reason to help others become better at mapping. Granted there are bad comments here and there, but good comments still overwhelm those, so I don't believe this the best direction to face. Most of the time all of the attention from common people would be taken away by those respected mapper.
MaridiuS
879 posts
Joined June 2014
Topic Starter
MaridiuS

abraker wrote:

hi-mei wrote:

Basically, there are people whos very experienced (Shiirn, Okorin, Natsu etc) and there are people who just spams their opinions without any knowledge in mapping.

Yea it sounds a bit uh... unfair but as a mapper (and trust me, its the case for any prominent mapper) sometimes I wanna see only specific person's opinon, instead of scrolling thru the entire thread of mods that might be useless.
I believe this is furthering mapping bias and making a less of a reason to help others become better at mapping. Granted there are bad comments here and there, but good comments still overwhelm those, so I don't believe this the best direction to face. Most of the time all of the attention from common people would be taken away by those respected mapper.
idk newer modders can even get downvoted now for bad comments soooo
Okoayu
Nomination Assessment Team / Elite Nominator
4,957 posts
Joined May 2012
Okoayu
  1. Mapset discovery is missing, there really isn't a way to browse for maps with most hype as a means for discovering maps
  2. As a nominator knowing which mapsets have been nominated is pretty important, some people like focusing on checking those because a nomination signals "hey this is close to rank, maybe it's a cool map" more strongly than any other hype count
  3. Similar point applies to things that were disqualified ^
  4. Currently there's no feasible way to disagree with someone's nomination - it's missing from a system side. If you disagree or find things that absolutely should halt a map's ranking process (unrankables) you cannot undo a nomination as a Beatmap Nominator - you have to wait until someone qualifies the beatmap and contact a QAT to disqualify
  5. Documentation on how stuff actually works is mostly user-written, the "Upvotes Award Kudosu" thing isn't very clear to the average person - also if i read it correctly - correct it if im wrong - upvoting and undoing your upvote next to a threshold is going to award and subtract kudosu unless it's blocked system-side this looks like an open door to abuse
  6. If a difficulty is remapped, discussion about the old difficulty is irrelevant and shouldn't hold up users from posting more issues about similar timestamps - actually probably should be wiped in those cases. No idea how to do that though - systematically speaking.
Last edited by Okoayu , edited 1 time in total.
pkhg
2,507 posts
Joined May 2010
pkhg

Nozhomi wrote:

Could we have maybe a button to hide resolved issues as map owner ? It would resolve this easily.
MaridiuS
879 posts
Joined June 2014
Topic Starter
MaridiuS

Nozhomi wrote:

MaridiuS wrote:

Think noffy was referring to the idea of scrolling through 100 random points that nobody will really care about. If some issue on the lines of "spacing too big here" was resolved, it means it's not relevant in the map anymore, and we're forced to scroll through multiple posts of these kind. Therefore no reason for the modder to point it out or care about that post while it takes valuable space, compared to an old ~13pixel line. Add 30 of those and it becomes hellish.
Could we have maybe a button to hide resolved issues as map owner ? It would resolve this easily.
You can filter to resolved or pending, but the issue is nonetheless scrolling through resolved stuff to see what is going on, how is the mapper responding to mods and what could general concerns be from modders.
Noffy
Nomination Assessment Team
1,684 posts
Joined April 2012
Noffy
Further ideas:

Allow mapper to pin 1-3 messages to the top of a mapset's general section. This could allow them to increase visibility on such things as:

- Notifications to modders: "don't mod x, it's not done.", or "PLEASE MOD X, IT JUST GOT ADDED, HAS 0 MODS."
- "please feedback on the spread" or something similar
- Metadata concern threads, instead of having this be buried in the middle of the general section somewhere.

Or anything else they can conceive that they want modders to see as soon as they open the map's modding panel.

Currently this can be accomplished by making a placeholder post as soon as the mapset is uploaded to ensure they get the top spot on the general section (this is what I'm doing), but having this as an actual feature would be nice :'')
pkhg
2,507 posts
Joined May 2010
pkhg
also theres a way to edit descriptions currently. u just have to search for it on your post history
Noffy
Nomination Assessment Team
1,684 posts
Joined April 2012
Noffy

pkhg wrote:

also theres a way to edit descriptions currently. u just have to search for it on your post history

currently yeah, but it'd be pretty bad once these v1 options were totally gone if there's no replacement in place.
pkhg
2,507 posts
Joined May 2010
pkhg
ya ik but im just pointing that out as a placeholder like what u did for metadata posts
MaridiuS
879 posts
Joined June 2014
Topic Starter
MaridiuS

pkhg wrote:

ya ik but im just pointing that out as a placeholder like what u did for metadata posts


That was already in OP zzz

Noffy nice ideas

Will update the OP sooner or later[/size]
Last edited by MaridiuS , edited 3 times in total.
hi-mei
784 posts
Joined June 2014
hi-mei
oh boys, there are people getting 10kds per maps set XD

@peppy can you please change the Kudosu thing to come from "resolved" but not "upvoted" instead?

people gonna abuse that for sure
Aurele
Global Moderator
7,514 posts
Joined January 2011
Aurele

hi-mei wrote:

oh boys, there are people getting 10kds per maps set XD

@peppy can you please change the Kudosu thing to come from "resolved" but not "upvoted" instead?

people gonna abuse that for sure

I was pretty sure it would go that way..

I'd like to see this and reward the modder once.. instead of 10+ times for the same map
BOUYAAA
396 posts
Joined July 2010
BOUYAAA

peppy wrote:

- hype only possible after user has played through the beatmap (need client support)
What's the use for this? It's not gonna prevent hype spamming anyways. I feel like this is just wasting everyone's time even more.
Why is hype even mendatory i don't get it.
Chanyah
1,845 posts
Joined November 2014
Chanyah
I really don't agree with this new KD system whatsoever - I can even get kds from my own map which doesn't make sense...

We also got to look at abuse here - There is a lot of people mapping and modding - there is absolutely no way to keep everyone from abusing this kd system without having some form of limitation to it with the amount of QAT and BN members we have -

Another thing why it is hard to keep it from being abusive, is that there isn't a good way to track all modv2 maps yet I believe (which I really think this is important - Especially for maps that been nominated)

But my main point is - I don't see a reason at all why can't just the mapper be the only one who decides who gets kd
I mean doesn't the mapper has a better judgment of how useful the mod is than some random person who may possible have no clue of how modding even works?
After all, it is the Mapper's map the modder is modding, and the Mapper (or anyone who gd/collab with) is the only one who is applying the mod to their map regardless if others think the mod was useful or not...

This is just as bad as the hype system tbh and I felt that it should has been discuss more before actually implemented like this



BOUYAAA wrote:

peppy wrote:

- hype only possible after user has played through the beatmap (need client support)
What's the use for this? It's not gonna prevent hype spamming anyways. I feel like this is just wasting everyone's time even more.
Why is hype even mendatory i don't get it.
Wait really? - Why do I have to determine if a map deserves a hype by playing through it now? What if the map is a 10 min marathon? Do I have to play through the whole thing to just give a map I believe deserves a hype to get rank? I hope that won't be the case lol

I may not be the best of modder/player but I know damn well how good of a map is without having to play it all the way through and just see this as a waste time and effort. Also that doesn't solve that it is still abusive whatsoever and shouldn't be a way for a map to get rank at all


EDIT:

Apparently I can go straight to someone's map and downvote a modder's mod and take away their kd from it (I tried it on a random map and one of my maps - oh course I remove the downvote after that lol)
I think that is... pretty dumb and that just goes back to my point of why I believe the mapper should determine if a mod deserves a kds once more because that just cause even more abusive issues
Shiro
Global Moderator
4,984 posts
Joined May 2009
Shiro

Hailie wrote:

I really don't agree with this new KD system whatsoever - I can even get kds from my own map which doesn't make sense...


Confirming this, I made an issue for it on github.

Hailie wrote:

Apparently I can go straight to someone's map and downvote a modder's mod and take away their kd from it (I tried it on a random map and one of my maps - oh course I remove the downvote after that lol)
I think that is... pretty dumb and that just goes back to my point of why I believe the mapper should determine if a mod deserves a kds once more because that just cause even more abusive issues


I kind of agree with that idea. I'll bring it up and see where it goes.
MaridiuS
879 posts
Joined June 2014
Topic Starter
MaridiuS
If somebody had some experience with qualified map on mv2 discussion, sharing would be nice. Preferably examples in which modders amass to bring the map down, but any viable discussion is welcomed. I personally think multiple discussions won't show as much pressure on mapset as it does in mv1 especially on overall quality issues.
LowAccuracySS
605 posts
Joined October 2015
LowAccuracySS
I think the main concern I have about this entire thing is the fact that it's being forced when it's not complete- I think 90% of the complaints that we currently have are mainly due to the incomplete nature of mv2. I don't know though, that's just my opinion based on what I've seen. As for suggestions, most of what's been mentioned I agree with, including changing beatmap descriptions post-rank. I don't see how abuse can occur here, and I would like to see examples (if possible)

Anyway, just my two cents. Modding with mv2 is straight to the point and easy, I just worry about the set owner and GDers more :)
coco
410 posts
Joined January 2017
coco
Quite minor but it would be nice to see who has favorited your map
Noffy
Nomination Assessment Team
1,684 posts
Joined April 2012
Noffy

cococolaco wrote:

Quite minor but it would be nice to see who has favorited your map
it was added recently
hover over the part of the map page that states the number of favorites and it'll show user's icons (up to 50) that you can then hover to see their names
Shiro
Global Moderator
4,984 posts
Joined May 2009
Shiro

LowAccuracySS wrote:

I think the main concern I have about this entire thing is the fact that it's being forced when it's not complete- I think 90% of the complaints that we currently have are mainly due to the incomplete nature of mv2. I don't know though, that's just my opinion based on what I've seen. As for suggestions, most of what's been mentioned I agree with, including changing beatmap descriptions post-rank. I don't see how abuse can occur here, and I would like to see examples (if possible)

Anyway, just my two cents. Modding with mv2 is straight to the point and easy, I just worry about the set owner and GDers more :)


If you think it isn't complete, or something is missing, you should give us a list of what you think needs to be added. We can't do much with just "this isn't complete".

Can you give more details on why you worry about set owner and GDers more ?
Nao Tomori
osu! Alumni
3,106 posts
Joined December 2014
Nao Tomori
Mainly just that GDers can't resolve points I guess, but peppy confirmed that would be added eventually. And downvoting to remove kds is kinda dumb too xD
hi-mei
784 posts
Joined June 2014
hi-mei
I suddenly got 8 kudosu out of nowhere, so looks like devs actually made resolved giving kudosu
ailv
403 posts
Joined August 2015
ailv
didn't see anything about irc modding in the thread aside from being mentioned twice;

A lot of people don't really irc mod, but for some people, myself included irc mod is more convenient as u can get direct feedback near instantaneously. On v1, u could post your chat log and other people could read over the discussions had on each point, but in v2, you'd have to take every single timestamp, and recreate the discussion, or post your chatlog to pastebin or something, and then post it.

additionally you can't really give multiple kds for 1 post, and theres no reason to have to retype every issue back up, just to have it remarked as resolved and given kds, so it doesn't work well with the new modder feedback system either.





edit: in regards to the issue of whitespace, it's less about getting used to, and sure you might be addressing one point at a time, but having more points on the screen imo is much more useful.
lcfc
813 posts
Joined October 2015
lcfc
Would also like to add a small detail for the cons (well, it's basically a suggestion); the map(set) host should be able to mark one's point as either accepted or denied instead of just "resolved". Otherwise, why do we colour our mod replies in v1? They're way easier to distinguish and it would be a cool (and helpful for some) detail to have plus it isn't that hard to implement.

Furthermore, something a bit more complex but one that could prove VERY useful and should be more compatible with v2 rather than v1: Give permission to GDers to do what I mentioned above on their own diffs. The host could give permission for the GDers to do so in their diffs, and each diff's permissions should be seperated so (example:) the GDer doesn't accept/deny a point in another diff they haven't mapped etc.. This is a bit more complex to do but I'm confident it's going to be more compatible with v2. The GDers updating their own diff could also be a thing but I'm not sure how that would work.

I believe modding v2 has much potential, and as long as it's made a bit more intuitive to use it'll be quite a good step for the modding scene.
Kawashiro
1,522 posts
Joined April 2012
Kawashiro

LowComboFC wrote:

Would also like to add a small detail for the cons (well, it's basically a suggestion); the map(set) host should be able to mark one's point as either accepted or denied instead of just "resolved". Otherwise, why do we colour our mod replies in v1? They're way easier to distinguish and it would be a cool (and helpful for some) detail to have plus it isn't that hard to implement.

Furthermore, something a bit more complex but one that could prove VERY useful and should be more compatible with v2 rather than v1: Give permission to GDers to do what I mentioned above on their own diffs. The host could give permission for the GDers to do so in their diffs, and each diff's permissions should be seperated so (example:) the GDer doesn't accept/deny a point in another diff they haven't mapped etc.. This is a bit more complex to do but I'm confident it's going to be more compatible with v2. The GDers updating their own diff could also be a thing but I'm not sure how that would work.

I believe modding v2 has much potential, and as long as it's made a bit more intuitive to use it'll be quite a good step for the modding scene.
I agree with only about GD mappers. Current system has no function for GD mappers. For now, host is checking all GD mappers respond and check resolved. It's too unproductive.
Shiro
Global Moderator
4,984 posts
Joined May 2009
Shiro

Kawashiro wrote:

LowComboFC wrote:

Would also like to add a small detail for the cons (well, it's basically a suggestion); the map(set) host should be able to mark one's point as either accepted or denied instead of just "resolved". Otherwise, why do we colour our mod replies in v1? They're way easier to distinguish and it would be a cool (and helpful for some) detail to have plus it isn't that hard to implement.

Furthermore, something a bit more complex but one that could prove VERY useful and should be more compatible with v2 rather than v1: Give permission to GDers to do what I mentioned above on their own diffs. The host could give permission for the GDers to do so in their diffs, and each diff's permissions should be seperated so (example:) the GDer doesn't accept/deny a point in another diff they haven't mapped etc.. This is a bit more complex to do but I'm confident it's going to be more compatible with v2. The GDers updating their own diff could also be a thing but I'm not sure how that would work.

I believe modding v2 has much potential, and as long as it's made a bit more intuitive to use it'll be quite a good step for the modding scene.


I agree with only about GD mappers. Current system has no function for GD mappers. For now, host is checking all GD mappers respond and check resolved. It's too unproductive.


This has been pointed out already, although not discussed much. I'll keep bringing it up and see what we can do.
Kawashiro
1,522 posts
Joined April 2012
Kawashiro
When I mod a map which already received many mods, Mapper sometimes already resolved some issues what i want to suggest without any more discusses. For now, only writer and mapper can reopen resolved issues. But I think this is blocking the way to others to join the discussion which is already resolved. For example, If someone suggested what i want to suggest and mapper rejected and check "resolved" icon, then nobody (except mapper and writer) can't show his own suggestion again.

I strongly think others (not a writer or mapper) should be able to reopen discussions which already resolved.
MaridiuS
879 posts
Joined June 2014
Topic Starter
MaridiuS
alright, popping is now a thing, though a bit different, check undiscussed at the OP.

Changing description via the new site is also available, though not sure if it's posssible to do when a map is ranked.
Noffy
Nomination Assessment Team
1,684 posts
Joined April 2012
Noffy

MaridiuS wrote:

alright, popping is now a thing, though a bit different, check undiscussed at the OP.

Changing description via the new site is also available, though not sure if it's posssible to do when a map is ranked.

I tested it on my ranked maps and it appears their descriptions can be edited through the new web this way. Not sure if this will be true for maps using v2 modding discussions when they get ranked, however.
MaridiuS
879 posts
Joined June 2014
Topic Starter
MaridiuS
tfw can't prepare massive veto mods :shock:
FiddleBlue
287 posts
Joined February 2016
FiddleBlue

Kawashiro wrote:

When I mod a map which already received many mods, Mapper sometimes already resolved some issues what i want to suggest without any more discusses. For now, only writer and mapper can reopen resolved issues. But I think this is blocking the way to others to join the discussion which is already resolved. For example, If someone suggested what i want to suggest and mapper rejected and check "resolved" icon, then nobody (except mapper and writer) can't show his own suggestion again.

I strongly think others (not a writer or mapper) should be able to reopen discussions which already resolved.
This

The point of modding v2 is to simplify issues so that people don't repeat the same thing in another discussion. So anyone should be able to open resolved discussion. Mappers will most likely organize by pending rather than all, so the additional mod given is likely to not be seen.
Pachiru
osu! Alumni
2,956 posts
Joined June 2013
Pachiru

FiddleBlue wrote:

The point of modding v2 is to simplify issues so that people don't repeat the same thing in another discussion. So anyone should be able to open resolved discussion. Mappers will most likely organize by pending rather than all, so the additional mod given is likely to not be seen.
If people repeat the same issues in different mods, it's maybe the meaning that this issue have to be fixed?
To me upvote/downvote is not as similar as repeating the same thing in different person's mod, cause text mod have more impact than just clicking on a button.
MaridiuS
879 posts
Joined June 2014
Topic Starter
MaridiuS

Pachiru wrote:

FiddleBlue wrote:

The point of modding v2 is to simplify issues so that people don't repeat the same thing in another discussion. So anyone should be able to open resolved discussion. Mappers will most likely organize by pending rather than all, so the additional mod given is likely to not be seen.
If people repeat the same issues in different mods, it's maybe the meaning that this issue have to be fixed?
To me upvote/downvote is not as similar as repeating the same thing in different person's mod, cause text mod have more impact than just clicking on a button.
Or we can simply just add more to the discussion to what the initial modder has missed, like he didn't offer suggestions or didn't explain really well.


Anyways, did character limit got introduced recently? It's really annoying as I don't even see how many characters have I used. If I reach character limit, I will just break down the post into responses to the initial post which is just annoying. Since mv2 encourages use of pick 1 example and say "same for this" in the same paragraph, limiting characters just hinders that and suggests that you just do "^ same" to farm more kudosu.

Another issue, could it be implemented to make the box in which you write automatically bigger or remember your default setting somehow? When it covers 2 rows, I can't really go back to what I've wrote as scrolling is also weird too, skips rows. Took me a while before I realized I could enlarge it, but still, I hate being forced to enlarge it manually by mouse everytime I need to when bigger box is always handy.
MaridiuS
879 posts
Joined June 2014
Topic Starter
MaridiuS

It'd be pretty sweet when highlighting a pinpointed dot by moving your cursor to be shown at what exact time was the pinpoint without having to click. If you click and it's not what you thought it was you just have to scroll back up and try again lo.

Maybe add "comment" option for when people would like to be edgy and jsut say "meh I don't like how the meta has evolved with this hexagrid aesthetics smh" "hmm, overall I think you could use more variety in future maps, don't you think that it's too stale" "lol trash map dxdxd" and other stuff for which might comment option be used.

Once again filtering per modder would be quite handy. The discussion on https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/659328/discussion wouldn't be so dynamic if it was spammed with 50+ more irrelevant posts. By simply enabling filtering per modder (which goes from newest to oldest) discussion after nomination would be a thing for itself, and checking out BN's posts would be more easier for those not involved in the set. Other uses many time mentioned are like be able to look up to mods, more easily revisit things mentioned by this one modder that seemed helpful, and other stuff already commented on this thread.



Possibly allow upvotes on comments? If I were to reopen a resolved thread and it got fixed, my efforts would not be rewarded.

Why is upvoting system even a thing, massively upvoting some comments doesn't make sense especially to people not involved. Sheer number of upvoting, as a concept of persuading the mapper, is really stupid because it should always depend on the quality of the post. There is also no clear way to indicate in which modders friends don't simply come and upvote his comments because it costs them nothing. It was discussed multiple times but only the mapper should judge the quality of a post relating to his map.

Anyways soon redoing the op a bit with changed stuff, so I think then would be the time for peppy to revisit the op.
Xinnoh
Elite Mapper
1,962 posts
Joined April 2014
Xinnoh
If you want to request good features like that, then ask for them on github here, make sure it's not duplicate. https://github.com/ppy/osu-web/issues/new
(Someone already posted that for you)

Lets go over issues from the start of the thread to see where it stands now.
box

MaridiuS wrote:

Cons
  1. Polishing the mod is not as viable, there's no way to prepare a mod beforehand with osu! resources. Nothing is wrong with doing live modding, not an issue.
  2. In the current system modding is considered as a secondary involvement, people are much more known for being mappers or players, but rarely is a user known for being a good modder. The new system puts modders all mixed up, so others viewing the thread won't be able to comprehend the value of one modder, in fact, with all the posts mixed up so much, I doubt anybody will be looking over mods unless the timestamp says that something was already mentioned. This means no one will be able to take notice on a specific modder, therefore... rip modder pride. This is planned for future implementation, but is a large hurdle.
    Clearing other smaller ones is higher priority.
  3. There is no formatting. We can have linebreaks, this has been somewhat addressed.
  4. Seems like there is a lot of unused space than it needs to be. ~Noffy. Personally I think at some point it is handy, but removing a little bit white space would be more fitting as I won't be required to scroll a lot down for just one discussion on a post. Peppy has confirmed that mv2 is being redesigned, expect a more compact version in the future.
  5. GDers can't post their updates in the thread so you don't have a history of them if people wanted to ever look back for changes. Still an issue
  6. Some mappers like to reply to mods first before applying it, so after answering a mod and mark it as resolved, keeping a track later would be a pain. Mappers still fix stuff locally on their system, not really an issue to begin with.
  7. New reward system is literally a con No clear way to solve this for now.
  8. Hype system is also a con This has been addressed in many ways, much better now.
  9. Character limit... Currently in case I need to write a huge paragraph, I will have to break it down into adding more into responses of the initial post, which is just a pain imo. So imo I think character limit could have a higher cap? I already told you in Akitoshi's server that being concise and simple is a skill. If you're really stuck then use multiple timestamps or comments. Having over 500 characters is spammy and defeats the purpose of v2.
Issues that only seem to be curent
  1. Currently you can't view activity on mv2 on old site. On new site you can, but it's mega spammy. They are working on compressing mv2 kudosu history here
  2. Currently, if a difficulty changes beatmap number due to being renamed, or deleted and added back between uploads, all points made on it disappear into an abyss. Renaming does not delete info. Deleting + readding is rare.
  3. Is there no limit per kudosu on a mapset yet? Why? Kudosu for 30 minute marathons should not be the same as tv size.
  4. You can't see the listing of currently nominated maps. This is still a major issue.
  5. Writing box is impractical, it's height is too small, covering about 2 and a half rows. Scrolling goes to like 1.5 rows and I get to skip text basically on longer posts. I think making it by default to be higher, or simply make it follow your preference of its height is the way to go, because the current chosen box is too small for any editing conventions. This is fixed.
Improvement suggestions
  1. Make it available to filter per modder and per timeline. I am pretty sure many people would prefer that, I cant imagine myself browsing mapthreads on modv2 in it's current state. Especially the "resolved" issues. Filters are planned.

Mv2 is in a working state. There are still issues that need fixing, but there are fewer issues now.
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