If the intention was to prevent posts on the beatmap threads for maps using Modding V2, the quick reply box still allows people to post there.
Can we wait till I get in the top 50 kds before we get rid of it, thnxSinnoh wrote:
but most BNs just do not care about kudosu. Many would prefer using the old forum, even if it did not give out kudosu. That's just how the community works.
I totally agree with this, it was very rash to force the modv2 without a reward system in use and no insight on what might further BN tests be about. It should be made clear asap. Anyways thank you everyone for participating in the discussion, I will update the OP tomorrow with new stuff, looking forward to more opinions!Nepuri wrote:
I do side with most of Noffy's arguments and would prefer if modv1 would be brought back, or atleast remained a viable alternative that will ALWAYS be accessible similar to fallback builds of the game.
Another argument id like to present would be the inability to measure a modders activity right now, which is a criteria for applying as a BN, which might be a big deal.
Right now activity is measured in KUDOSU and MOD POSTS per month.
Its noticeable that first of all, KUDOSU are becoming a scarce resource.
Even scarier is that, MOD POSTS are defined as a POST in a FORUM which has recieved KUDOSU. As KUDOSU dont even exist on modv2 yet, this is clearly not possible.
Currently, as modv2 is more or less forced upon all newer maps, making MOD POSTS will become harder and harder, thus the measureable activity goes DOWN.
What is the result? A very inconveniencing situation for everyone wanting to maintain a steady and *measureable* activity to be able to apply for BN. If this issue is not solved in a way or another soon enough, either by redefining the measurement of activity, or through other means that includes modv2, BN applications will have to be put on hold pretty much and if that goes on for long enough, it might cause some minor or major problems in the mapping community.
This is probably a pretty urgent issue that should be solved soon, as BNship highly depends on a measurement of activity which currently is NOT compatible with modv2.
Its not really IRC modding if you're posting the concerns on the thread and have the mapper reply to it in the same way he did irc, literally just a waste of time tbh.Hakura wrote:
Can I also mention that moddingv2 is actually great too for IRC modding? Since feedback for your map is updated real time it's very easy to react to. I've tried it with Mir already and it worked out great. If there was still any confusion with the points we made we were still able to talk ingame but overall most of the times it was fine with replying et cetera. Don't need to save logs anymore with it!
Also since they're selecting new BNs on modding skills now I very do wonder how this all will turn out when moddingv2 only supports scattered posts
Isn't this the complete other way around? In a single post you can describe what a point applies to and the mapper will be able to pinpoint them. In mv2 you would have to copy and paste your points to different timestamps no?Cerulean Veyron wrote:
No need to write a ton of paragraphs and repeated issues in a single mod post lol.
timemon wrote:
I think when the reward system is implemented, it should probably go back and retroactively give you your hard earned rewards anyway. It's just a matter of when.
hi-mei wrote:
Pushing something that is in BETA (and not allowing the optional v1) isn't good since it stops the entire mechanism of modding/ranking. People dont want to mod maps cuz they dont get kds for that, as a modder I have 0 will to spend my time for free without any benefits.
In other words, please enable v1 back so I can grind my kds again. Keep it live till v2 will be ready.
Noffy wrote:
while white space is important to differentiate different items, the extent to which this is done, as circled in red, is absolutely excessive.
Noffy wrote:
v2 in comparison is a pain in the ass to read through. I can't see how long a modder's post is at a glance, I have to scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll. If i want to look for a specific point without knowing the time it was posted at, i have to scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll. It's inefficient.
Noffy wrote:
It should be possible to see only a specific modder's points at a time. It's already possible to just see posts you made yourself by clicking "mine" so this should be doable.
Noffy wrote:
ability to sort mod posts either by the timestamp, or the date they were posted. Make the date posted sorting option the default to give an idea of how a map has changed over time.
Noffy wrote:
give mappers the ability to mark points as irrelevant if a difficulty has been remapped.
Noffy wrote:
add pagination if a difficulty's mod thread has over a certain number of replies, like 20. scrolling through someone's map's thread if it has 100+ points would be hellish.
Noffy wrote:
give mapset host the ability to give other specified users the ability to resolve issues. this would address the current problem with GDers replying and unable to resolve themselves. these other users would be marked as "Guest Mapper" similar to how the host mapper is marked with a green tag.
Noffy wrote:
when scrolling through a thread, the box for posting an issue would remain always visible at the top of the screen. this would make it easier for modders to review other points at close timestamps while reviewing their own, or just to read over the thread in general while writing their mod points. Much better than having to constantly scroll aaaalll the way down to a point, then aaalll the way back up to the box for posting a point.
Noffy wrote:
make it possible for a mapper to edit the map description!
Noffy wrote:
Also currently, if a difficulty changes beatmap number due to being renamed, or deleted and added back between uploads, all points made on it disappear into an abyss.
Noffy wrote:
I personally detest email notifications and always use the bookmarks page on the current website to keep up with both map threads and other threads such as modding queues I stalk.
Noffy wrote:
modv2 is completely fucked on the mobile page, why is there even a mobile page if the layout gets so badly messed up? it's much easier to zoom into the desktop version of the page than read this mess.
Both of these points are due to how a map may change significantly during its time in pending, especially if it's from a new mapper. Currently there's no way to differentiate if a point that mod v2 is notifying you of being at the same time is still relevant in its form or from a map several dozen versions ago. This is primarily for modders who may want to review previous modder's points to get a grasp on what other issues have been found and how they may contribute to those discussions.peppy wrote:
This doesn't make too much sense. All open issues still need to be resolved equally, right?Noffy wrote:
ability to sort mod posts either by the timestamp, or the date they were posted. Make the date posted sorting option the default to give an idea of how a map has changed over time.You can use resolve for thisNoffy wrote:
give mappers the ability to mark points as irrelevant if a difficulty has been remapped.
Yay ^^!peppy wrote:
Eventually we'll support guest mappers, but not just yet.Noffy wrote:
give mapset host the ability to give other specified users the ability to resolve issues. this would address the current problem with GDers replying and unable to resolve themselves. these other users would be marked as "Guest Mapper" similar to how the host mapper is marked with a green tag.DefinitelyNoffy wrote:
when scrolling through a thread, the box for posting an issue would remain always visible at the top of the screen. this would make it easier for modders to review other points at close timestamps while reviewing their own, or just to read over the thread in general while writing their mod points. Much better than having to constantly scroll aaaalll the way down to a point, then aaalll the way back up to the box for posting a point.Yep, optional email alerts will definitely be coming.Noffy wrote:
I personally detest email notifications and always use the bookmarks page on the current website to keep up with both map threads and other threads such as modding queues I stalk.
Will there be quick buttons on the in-game updater to add formatting in the near future then? Currently adding this through the BSS requires memorization of the forum's code.peppy wrote:
This is done from BSS in-game for now.Noffy wrote:
make it possible for a mapper to edit the map description!
Mind describing what kind of abuse could come from it? I have no knowledge of this stuff so it helps for me. I'm a mapper who does a lot of information spreading in my descriptions (a pretty good example of what I mean), so being able to edit descriptions at all times is important to me. The main thing that comes from post-ranked beatmap edits is if someone changes their name, a puush link times out, or I forget to write a nomination in the description, it's important to me to change it so that way I can properly convey that stuff. Obviously it's not a 100% life or death issue, but it's very convenient for people like me <:peppy wrote:
We'll be adding description editing to the new web info pages, but I can't guarantee that it will work post-ranked-state (this allows for potential abuse).
Ascendance wrote:
Mind describing what kind of abuse could come from it? I have no knowledge of this stuff so it helps for me. I'm a mapper who does a lot of information spreading in my descriptions (a pretty good example of what I mean), so being able to edit descriptions at all times is important to me. The main thing that comes from post-ranked beatmap edits is if someone changes their name, a puush link times out, or I forget to write a nomination in the description, it's important to me to change it so that way I can properly convey that stuff. Obviously it's not a 100% life or death issue, but it's very convenient for people like me <:peppy wrote:
We'll be adding description editing to the new web info pages, but I can't guarantee that it will work post-ranked-state (this allows for potential abuse).
I don't think typing "rhythm" or "spacing" could find what I am looking for. Neither can a mapper truly remember the wording of the modder to find it.peppy wrote:
If you know what you're looking for, how about using your browser's search function (Ctrl-F)?Noffy wrote:
v2 in comparison is a pain in the ass to read through. I can't see how long a modder's post is at a glance, I have to scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll. If i want to look for a specific point without knowing the time it was posted at, i have to scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll. It's inefficient.
Hm I was actually talking a lot about this. I think reading through it all might make you more understand, the points are on Cons, original post, 1st and 3rd point somewhat connected and here p/6341022. Adding to it is that modders have certain views. They may try to connect their ideas dynamically and focus in helping the mapper on more general issues, making further points from one modder stronger. In case the mapper receives multiple mods, he will more easily be able to handle from each modder individually. Some people mod passionately with intentions to genuinely try to improve the map, while some are just here like "m4m lol: fix blanket, small spacing here ... this is really good well done, add note?, connect, ^, ^... veri nice map!"peppy wrote:
We're trying to make it less about individual modders and more about general map quality. What is the reason for looking at one person's issues specifically?Noffy wrote:
It should be possible to see only a specific modder's points at a time. It's already possible to just see posts you made yourself by clicking "mine" so this should be doable.
Think noffy was referring to the idea of scrolling through 100 random points that nobody will really care about. If some issue on the lines of "spacing too big here" was resolved, it means it's not relevant in the map anymore, and we're forced to scroll through multiple posts of these kind. Therefore no reason for the modder to point it out or care about that post while it takes valuable space, compared to an old ~13pixel line. Add 30 of those and it becomes hellish.peppy wrote:
Why is it hellish? The page performance should survive. Let us know if otherwise.Noffy wrote:
add pagination if a difficulty's mod thread has over a certain number of replies, like 20. scrolling through someone's map's thread if it has 100+ points would be hellish.
peppy wrote:
We're trying to make it less about individual modders and more about general map quality. What is the reason for looking at one person's issues specifically?Noffy wrote:
It should be possible to see only a specific modder's points at a time. It's already possible to just see posts you made yourself by clicking "mine" so this should be doable.
Could we have maybe a button to hide resolved issues as map owner ? It would resolve this easily.MaridiuS wrote:
Think noffy was referring to the idea of scrolling through 100 random points that nobody will really care about. If some issue on the lines of "spacing too big here" was resolved, it means it's not relevant in the map anymore, and we're forced to scroll through multiple posts of these kind. Therefore no reason for the modder to point it out or care about that post while it takes valuable space, compared to an old ~13pixel line. Add 30 of those and it becomes hellish.
This suggestion is fucking greatNozhomi wrote:
Could we have maybe a button to hide resolved issues as map owner ? It would resolve this easily.
I believe this is furthering mapping bias and making a less of a reason to help others become better at mapping. Granted there are bad comments here and there, but good comments still overwhelm those, so I don't believe this the best direction to face. Most of the time all of the attention from common people would be taken away by those respected mapper.hi-mei wrote:
Basically, there are people whos very experienced (Shiirn, Okorin, Natsu etc) and there are people who just spams their opinions without any knowledge in mapping.
Yea it sounds a bit uh... unfair but as a mapper (and trust me, its the case for any prominent mapper) sometimes I wanna see only specific person's opinon, instead of scrolling thru the entire thread of mods that might be useless.
idk newer modders can even get downvoted now for bad comments sooooabraker wrote:
I believe this is furthering mapping bias and making a less of a reason to help others become better at mapping. Granted there are bad comments here and there, but good comments still overwhelm those, so I don't believe this the best direction to face. Most of the time all of the attention from common people would be taken away by those respected mapper.hi-mei wrote:
Basically, there are people whos very experienced (Shiirn, Okorin, Natsu etc) and there are people who just spams their opinions without any knowledge in mapping.
Yea it sounds a bit uh... unfair but as a mapper (and trust me, its the case for any prominent mapper) sometimes I wanna see only specific person's opinon, instead of scrolling thru the entire thread of mods that might be useless.
Nozhomi wrote:
Could we have maybe a button to hide resolved issues as map owner ? It would resolve this easily.
You can filter to resolved or pending, but the issue is nonetheless scrolling through resolved stuff to see what is going on, how is the mapper responding to mods and what could general concerns be from modders.Nozhomi wrote:
Could we have maybe a button to hide resolved issues as map owner ? It would resolve this easily.MaridiuS wrote:
Think noffy was referring to the idea of scrolling through 100 random points that nobody will really care about. If some issue on the lines of "spacing too big here" was resolved, it means it's not relevant in the map anymore, and we're forced to scroll through multiple posts of these kind. Therefore no reason for the modder to point it out or care about that post while it takes valuable space, compared to an old ~13pixel line. Add 30 of those and it becomes hellish.
pkhg wrote:
also theres a way to edit descriptions currently. u just have to search for it on your post history
pkhg wrote:
ya ik but im just pointing that out as a placeholder like what u did for metadata posts
hi-mei wrote:
oh boys, there are people getting 10kds per maps set XD
@peppy can you please change the Kudosu thing to come from "resolved" but not "upvoted" instead?
people gonna abuse that for sure
What's the use for this? It's not gonna prevent hype spamming anyways. I feel like this is just wasting everyone's time even more.peppy wrote:
- hype only possible after user has played through the beatmap (need client support)