forum

Modding v2 feedback / brainstorming thread

posted
Total Posts
87
show more
HappyRocket88
Please don't forget formatting! >__<
Noffy

Ascendance wrote:

peppy wrote:

We'll be adding description editing to the new web info pages, but I can't guarantee that it will work post-ranked-state (this allows for potential abuse).
Mind describing what kind of abuse could come from it? I have no knowledge of this stuff so it helps for me. I'm a mapper who does a lot of information spreading in my descriptions (a pretty good example of what I mean), so being able to edit descriptions at all times is important to me. The main thing that comes from post-ranked beatmap edits is if someone changes their name, a puush link times out, or I forget to write a nomination in the description, it's important to me to change it so that way I can properly convey that stuff. Obviously it's not a 100% life or death issue, but it's very convenient for people like me <:

I definitely agree with Ascendance here.
Doing map series like https://osu.ppy.sh/s/122376 or https://osu.ppy.sh/s/480609 how these and related maps linked in the descriptions all refer to each other would not be as feasible without having the ability to edit maps after rank. It's beneficial for larger projects.
If not, there should be an alternative for these kind of grouped listings (for mappers to make, versus beatmap packs which feature multiple mappers and are curated by others) on the website, as being able to browse and play through big projects like these is pretty fun as a player c:
Topic Starter
MaridiuS

peppy wrote:

Noffy wrote:

v2 in comparison is a pain in the ass to read through. I can't see how long a modder's post is at a glance, I have to scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll. If i want to look for a specific point without knowing the time it was posted at, i have to scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll. It's inefficient.
If you know what you're looking for, how about using your browser's search function (Ctrl-F)?
I don't think typing "rhythm" or "spacing" could find what I am looking for. Neither can a mapper truly remember the wording of the modder to find it.

peppy wrote:

Noffy wrote:

It should be possible to see only a specific modder's points at a time. It's already possible to just see posts you made yourself by clicking "mine" so this should be doable.
We're trying to make it less about individual modders and more about general map quality. What is the reason for looking at one person's issues specifically?
Hm I was actually talking a lot about this. I think reading through it all might make you more understand, the points are on Cons, original post, 1st and 3rd point somewhat connected and here p/6341022. Adding to it is that modders have certain views. They may try to connect their ideas dynamically and focus in helping the mapper on more general issues, making further points from one modder stronger. In case the mapper receives multiple mods, he will more easily be able to handle from each modder individually. Some people mod passionately with intentions to genuinely try to improve the map, while some are just here like "m4m lol: fix blanket, small spacing here ... this is really good well done, add note?, connect, ^, ^... veri nice map!"


peppy wrote:

Noffy wrote:

add pagination if a difficulty's mod thread has over a certain number of replies, like 20. scrolling through someone's map's thread if it has 100+ points would be hellish.
Why is it hellish? The page performance should survive. Let us know if otherwise.
Think noffy was referring to the idea of scrolling through 100 random points that nobody will really care about. If some issue on the lines of "spacing too big here" was resolved, it means it's not relevant in the map anymore, and we're forced to scroll through multiple posts of these kind. Therefore no reason for the modder to point it out or care about that post while it takes valuable space, compared to an old ~13pixel line. Add 30 of those and it becomes hellish.
hi-mei

peppy wrote:

Noffy wrote:

It should be possible to see only a specific modder's points at a time. It's already possible to just see posts you made yourself by clicking "mine" so this should be doable.
We're trying to make it less about individual modders and more about general map quality. What is the reason for looking at one person's issues specifically?

Basically, there are people whos very experienced (Shiirn, Okorin, Natsu etc) and there are people who just spams their opinions without any knowledge in mapping.

Yea it sounds a bit uh... unfair but as a mapper (and trust me, its the case for any prominent mapper) sometimes I wanna see only specific person's opinon, instead of scrolling thru the entire thread of mods that might be useless.
Nozhomi

MaridiuS wrote:

Think noffy was referring to the idea of scrolling through 100 random points that nobody will really care about. If some issue on the lines of "spacing too big here" was resolved, it means it's not relevant in the map anymore, and we're forced to scroll through multiple posts of these kind. Therefore no reason for the modder to point it out or care about that post while it takes valuable space, compared to an old ~13pixel line. Add 30 of those and it becomes hellish.
Could we have maybe a button to hide resolved issues as map owner ? It would resolve this easily.
Weber

Nozhomi wrote:

Could we have maybe a button to hide resolved issues as map owner ? It would resolve this easily.
This suggestion is fucking great
Lumenite-
better yet, still waiting on a veto button for nominators

granted we can mod for a veto, there’s no way to prevent a map from being qualified in v2... once a map is nominated, most mappers will defend as much as possible to prevent needing a rebubble or whatnot

a huge part of the process is missing, which should probably be more important than marking issues as “resolved” or “rejected”
b00
As Nozhomi wrote. +1 for being able to hide resolved events. Also I think that maybe a voting system to prioritise different posts would be interesting? :idea:
abraker

hi-mei wrote:

Basically, there are people whos very experienced (Shiirn, Okorin, Natsu etc) and there are people who just spams their opinions without any knowledge in mapping.

Yea it sounds a bit uh... unfair but as a mapper (and trust me, its the case for any prominent mapper) sometimes I wanna see only specific person's opinon, instead of scrolling thru the entire thread of mods that might be useless.
I believe this is furthering mapping bias and making a less of a reason to help others become better at mapping. Granted there are bad comments here and there, but good comments still overwhelm those, so I don't believe this the best direction to face. Most of the time all of the attention from common people would be taken away by those respected mapper.
Topic Starter
MaridiuS

abraker wrote:

hi-mei wrote:

Basically, there are people whos very experienced (Shiirn, Okorin, Natsu etc) and there are people who just spams their opinions without any knowledge in mapping.

Yea it sounds a bit uh... unfair but as a mapper (and trust me, its the case for any prominent mapper) sometimes I wanna see only specific person's opinon, instead of scrolling thru the entire thread of mods that might be useless.
I believe this is furthering mapping bias and making a less of a reason to help others become better at mapping. Granted there are bad comments here and there, but good comments still overwhelm those, so I don't believe this the best direction to face. Most of the time all of the attention from common people would be taken away by those respected mapper.
idk newer modders can even get downvoted now for bad comments soooo
Okoratu
  1. Mapset discovery is missing, there really isn't a way to browse for maps with most hype as a means for discovering maps
  2. As a nominator knowing which mapsets have been nominated is pretty important, some people like focusing on checking those because a nomination signals "hey this is close to rank, maybe it's a cool map" more strongly than any other hype count
  3. Similar point applies to things that were disqualified ^
  4. Currently there's no feasible way to disagree with someone's nomination - it's missing from a system side. If you disagree or find things that absolutely should halt a map's ranking process (unrankables) you cannot undo a nomination as a Beatmap Nominator - you have to wait until someone qualifies the beatmap and contact a QAT to disqualify
  5. Documentation on how stuff actually works is mostly user-written, the "Upvotes Award Kudosu" thing isn't very clear to the average person - also if i read it correctly - correct it if im wrong - upvoting and undoing your upvote next to a threshold is going to award and subtract kudosu unless it's blocked system-side this looks like an open door to abuse
  6. If a difficulty is remapped, discussion about the old difficulty is irrelevant and shouldn't hold up users from posting more issues about similar timestamps - actually probably should be wiped in those cases. No idea how to do that though - systematically speaking.
pkhg

Nozhomi wrote:

Could we have maybe a button to hide resolved issues as map owner ? It would resolve this easily.
Topic Starter
MaridiuS

Nozhomi wrote:

MaridiuS wrote:

Think noffy was referring to the idea of scrolling through 100 random points that nobody will really care about. If some issue on the lines of "spacing too big here" was resolved, it means it's not relevant in the map anymore, and we're forced to scroll through multiple posts of these kind. Therefore no reason for the modder to point it out or care about that post while it takes valuable space, compared to an old ~13pixel line. Add 30 of those and it becomes hellish.
Could we have maybe a button to hide resolved issues as map owner ? It would resolve this easily.
You can filter to resolved or pending, but the issue is nonetheless scrolling through resolved stuff to see what is going on, how is the mapper responding to mods and what could general concerns be from modders.
Noffy
Further ideas:

Allow mapper to pin 1-3 messages to the top of a mapset's general section. This could allow them to increase visibility on such things as:

- Notifications to modders: "don't mod x, it's not done.", or "PLEASE MOD X, IT JUST GOT ADDED, HAS 0 MODS."
- "please feedback on the spread" or something similar
- Metadata concern threads, instead of having this be buried in the middle of the general section somewhere.

Or anything else they can conceive that they want modders to see as soon as they open the map's modding panel.

Currently this can be accomplished by making a placeholder post as soon as the mapset is uploaded to ensure they get the top spot on the general section (this is what I'm doing), but having this as an actual feature would be nice :'')
pkhg
also theres a way to edit descriptions currently. u just have to search for it on your post history
Noffy

pkhg wrote:

also theres a way to edit descriptions currently. u just have to search for it on your post history

currently yeah, but it'd be pretty bad once these v1 options were totally gone if there's no replacement in place.
pkhg
ya ik but im just pointing that out as a placeholder like what u did for metadata posts
Topic Starter
MaridiuS

pkhg wrote:

ya ik but im just pointing that out as a placeholder like what u did for metadata posts


That was already in OP zzz

Noffy nice ideas

Will update the OP sooner or later[/size]
hi-mei
oh boys, there are people getting 10kds per maps set XD

@peppy can you please change the Kudosu thing to come from "resolved" but not "upvoted" instead?

people gonna abuse that for sure
Aurele

hi-mei wrote:

oh boys, there are people getting 10kds per maps set XD

@peppy can you please change the Kudosu thing to come from "resolved" but not "upvoted" instead?

people gonna abuse that for sure

I was pretty sure it would go that way..

I'd like to see this and reward the modder once.. instead of 10+ times for the same map
BOUYAAA

peppy wrote:

- hype only possible after user has played through the beatmap (need client support)
What's the use for this? It's not gonna prevent hype spamming anyways. I feel like this is just wasting everyone's time even more.
Why is hype even mendatory i don't get it.
Cheri
I really don't agree with this new KD system whatsoever - I can even get kds from my own map which doesn't make sense...

We also got to look at abuse here - There is a lot of people mapping and modding - there is absolutely no way to keep everyone from abusing this kd system without having some form of limitation to it with the amount of QAT and BN members we have -

Another thing why it is hard to keep it from being abusive, is that there isn't a good way to track all modv2 maps yet I believe (which I really think this is important - Especially for maps that been nominated)

But my main point is - I don't see a reason at all why can't just the mapper be the only one who decides who gets kd
I mean doesn't the mapper has a better judgment of how useful the mod is than some random person who may possible have no clue of how modding even works?
After all, it is the Mapper's map the modder is modding, and the Mapper (or anyone who gd/collab with) is the only one who is applying the mod to their map regardless if others think the mod was useful or not...

This is just as bad as the hype system tbh and I felt that it should has been discuss more before actually implemented like this



BOUYAAA wrote:

peppy wrote:

- hype only possible after user has played through the beatmap (need client support)
What's the use for this? It's not gonna prevent hype spamming anyways. I feel like this is just wasting everyone's time even more.
Why is hype even mendatory i don't get it.
Wait really? - Why do I have to determine if a map deserves a hype by playing through it now? What if the map is a 10 min marathon? Do I have to play through the whole thing to just give a map I believe deserves a hype to get rank? I hope that won't be the case lol

I may not be the best of modder/player but I know damn well how good of a map is without having to play it all the way through and just see this as a waste time and effort. Also that doesn't solve that it is still abusive whatsoever and shouldn't be a way for a map to get rank at all


EDIT:

Apparently I can go straight to someone's map and downvote a modder's mod and take away their kd from it (I tried it on a random map and one of my maps - oh course I remove the downvote after that lol)
I think that is... pretty dumb and that just goes back to my point of why I believe the mapper should determine if a mod deserves a kds once more because that just cause even more abusive issues
Shiro

Hailie wrote:

I really don't agree with this new KD system whatsoever - I can even get kds from my own map which doesn't make sense...


Confirming this, I made an issue for it on github.

Hailie wrote:

Apparently I can go straight to someone's map and downvote a modder's mod and take away their kd from it (I tried it on a random map and one of my maps - oh course I remove the downvote after that lol)
I think that is... pretty dumb and that just goes back to my point of why I believe the mapper should determine if a mod deserves a kds once more because that just cause even more abusive issues


I kind of agree with that idea. I'll bring it up and see where it goes.
Topic Starter
MaridiuS
If somebody had some experience with qualified map on mv2 discussion, sharing would be nice. Preferably examples in which modders amass to bring the map down, but any viable discussion is welcomed. I personally think multiple discussions won't show as much pressure on mapset as it does in mv1 especially on overall quality issues.
LowAccuracySS
I think the main concern I have about this entire thing is the fact that it's being forced when it's not complete- I think 90% of the complaints that we currently have are mainly due to the incomplete nature of mv2. I don't know though, that's just my opinion based on what I've seen. As for suggestions, most of what's been mentioned I agree with, including changing beatmap descriptions post-rank. I don't see how abuse can occur here, and I would like to see examples (if possible)

Anyway, just my two cents. Modding with mv2 is straight to the point and easy, I just worry about the set owner and GDers more :)
coco
Quite minor but it would be nice to see who has favorited your map
Noffy

cococolaco wrote:

Quite minor but it would be nice to see who has favorited your map
it was added recently
hover over the part of the map page that states the number of favorites and it'll show user's icons (up to 50) that you can then hover to see their names
Shiro

LowAccuracySS wrote:

I think the main concern I have about this entire thing is the fact that it's being forced when it's not complete- I think 90% of the complaints that we currently have are mainly due to the incomplete nature of mv2. I don't know though, that's just my opinion based on what I've seen. As for suggestions, most of what's been mentioned I agree with, including changing beatmap descriptions post-rank. I don't see how abuse can occur here, and I would like to see examples (if possible)

Anyway, just my two cents. Modding with mv2 is straight to the point and easy, I just worry about the set owner and GDers more :)


If you think it isn't complete, or something is missing, you should give us a list of what you think needs to be added. We can't do much with just "this isn't complete".

Can you give more details on why you worry about set owner and GDers more ?
Nao Tomori
Mainly just that GDers can't resolve points I guess, but peppy confirmed that would be added eventually. And downvoting to remove kds is kinda dumb too xD
hi-mei
I suddenly got 8 kudosu out of nowhere, so looks like devs actually made resolved giving kudosu
ailv
didn't see anything about irc modding in the thread aside from being mentioned twice;

A lot of people don't really irc mod, but for some people, myself included irc mod is more convenient as u can get direct feedback near instantaneously. On v1, u could post your chat log and other people could read over the discussions had on each point, but in v2, you'd have to take every single timestamp, and recreate the discussion, or post your chatlog to pastebin or something, and then post it.

additionally you can't really give multiple kds for 1 post, and theres no reason to have to retype every issue back up, just to have it remarked as resolved and given kds, so it doesn't work well with the new modder feedback system either.





edit: in regards to the issue of whitespace, it's less about getting used to, and sure you might be addressing one point at a time, but having more points on the screen imo is much more useful.
lcfc
Would also like to add a small detail for the cons (well, it's basically a suggestion); the map(set) host should be able to mark one's point as either accepted or denied instead of just "resolved". Otherwise, why do we colour our mod replies in v1? They're way easier to distinguish and it would be a cool (and helpful for some) detail to have plus it isn't that hard to implement.

Furthermore, something a bit more complex but one that could prove VERY useful and should be more compatible with v2 rather than v1: Give permission to GDers to do what I mentioned above on their own diffs. The host could give permission for the GDers to do so in their diffs, and each diff's permissions should be seperated so (example:) the GDer doesn't accept/deny a point in another diff they haven't mapped etc.. This is a bit more complex to do but I'm confident it's going to be more compatible with v2. The GDers updating their own diff could also be a thing but I'm not sure how that would work.

I believe modding v2 has much potential, and as long as it's made a bit more intuitive to use it'll be quite a good step for the modding scene.
Kawashiro

LowComboFC wrote:

Would also like to add a small detail for the cons (well, it's basically a suggestion); the map(set) host should be able to mark one's point as either accepted or denied instead of just "resolved". Otherwise, why do we colour our mod replies in v1? They're way easier to distinguish and it would be a cool (and helpful for some) detail to have plus it isn't that hard to implement.

Furthermore, something a bit more complex but one that could prove VERY useful and should be more compatible with v2 rather than v1: Give permission to GDers to do what I mentioned above on their own diffs. The host could give permission for the GDers to do so in their diffs, and each diff's permissions should be seperated so (example:) the GDer doesn't accept/deny a point in another diff they haven't mapped etc.. This is a bit more complex to do but I'm confident it's going to be more compatible with v2. The GDers updating their own diff could also be a thing but I'm not sure how that would work.

I believe modding v2 has much potential, and as long as it's made a bit more intuitive to use it'll be quite a good step for the modding scene.
I agree with only about GD mappers. Current system has no function for GD mappers. For now, host is checking all GD mappers respond and check resolved. It's too unproductive.
Shiro

Kawashiro wrote:

LowComboFC wrote:

Would also like to add a small detail for the cons (well, it's basically a suggestion); the map(set) host should be able to mark one's point as either accepted or denied instead of just "resolved". Otherwise, why do we colour our mod replies in v1? They're way easier to distinguish and it would be a cool (and helpful for some) detail to have plus it isn't that hard to implement.

Furthermore, something a bit more complex but one that could prove VERY useful and should be more compatible with v2 rather than v1: Give permission to GDers to do what I mentioned above on their own diffs. The host could give permission for the GDers to do so in their diffs, and each diff's permissions should be seperated so (example:) the GDer doesn't accept/deny a point in another diff they haven't mapped etc.. This is a bit more complex to do but I'm confident it's going to be more compatible with v2. The GDers updating their own diff could also be a thing but I'm not sure how that would work.

I believe modding v2 has much potential, and as long as it's made a bit more intuitive to use it'll be quite a good step for the modding scene.


I agree with only about GD mappers. Current system has no function for GD mappers. For now, host is checking all GD mappers respond and check resolved. It's too unproductive.


This has been pointed out already, although not discussed much. I'll keep bringing it up and see what we can do.
Kawashiro
When I mod a map which already received many mods, Mapper sometimes already resolved some issues what i want to suggest without any more discusses. For now, only writer and mapper can reopen resolved issues. But I think this is blocking the way to others to join the discussion which is already resolved. For example, If someone suggested what i want to suggest and mapper rejected and check "resolved" icon, then nobody (except mapper and writer) can't show his own suggestion again.

I strongly think others (not a writer or mapper) should be able to reopen discussions which already resolved.
Topic Starter
MaridiuS
alright, popping is now a thing, though a bit different, check undiscussed at the OP.

Changing description via the new site is also available, though not sure if it's posssible to do when a map is ranked.
Noffy

MaridiuS wrote:

alright, popping is now a thing, though a bit different, check undiscussed at the OP.

Changing description via the new site is also available, though not sure if it's posssible to do when a map is ranked.

I tested it on my ranked maps and it appears their descriptions can be edited through the new web this way. Not sure if this will be true for maps using v2 modding discussions when they get ranked, however.
Topic Starter
MaridiuS
tfw can't prepare massive veto mods :shock:
FiddleBlue

Kawashiro wrote:

When I mod a map which already received many mods, Mapper sometimes already resolved some issues what i want to suggest without any more discusses. For now, only writer and mapper can reopen resolved issues. But I think this is blocking the way to others to join the discussion which is already resolved. For example, If someone suggested what i want to suggest and mapper rejected and check "resolved" icon, then nobody (except mapper and writer) can't show his own suggestion again.

I strongly think others (not a writer or mapper) should be able to reopen discussions which already resolved.
This

The point of modding v2 is to simplify issues so that people don't repeat the same thing in another discussion. So anyone should be able to open resolved discussion. Mappers will most likely organize by pending rather than all, so the additional mod given is likely to not be seen.
Pachiru

FiddleBlue wrote:

The point of modding v2 is to simplify issues so that people don't repeat the same thing in another discussion. So anyone should be able to open resolved discussion. Mappers will most likely organize by pending rather than all, so the additional mod given is likely to not be seen.
If people repeat the same issues in different mods, it's maybe the meaning that this issue have to be fixed?
To me upvote/downvote is not as similar as repeating the same thing in different person's mod, cause text mod have more impact than just clicking on a button.
show more
Please sign in to reply.

New reply