chano & 40mP - Natsukoi Hanabi · forum

Bariton

296 posts

Joined October 2012

Bariton 2017-10-19T17:45:28+00:00

feel free to delete my diff if it's gonna be a drag to the set

Genjuro

652 posts

Joined August 2013

Genjuro 2017-10-19T17:48:54+00:00

cool map and awesome song! ;D!

Trynna

714 posts

Joined May 2013

Trynna 2017-10-19T18:00:50+00:00

@Monstrata 00:15:537 (1,2) - nerfed the jump a bit. about more emphasis on 00:15:917 (2,3) -, as it's forcing a different movement from 00:15:537 (1,2) - i think it's pretty cool, as it's not that strong sound
01:00:348 (5,6) - I don't really get what you meant with 3/4 spacing at all but as this diff tries to say that stacked objects can be read as stacks without many trouble, the thing is no matter the spacing at all, and also it's pretty clear the pattern about making the spacing larger on 00:59:588 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -

rest fixed without many trouble i guess ??
thank

g

osu file format v14

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Title:Natsukoi Hanabi
TitleUnicode:夏恋花火
Artist:chano & 40mP
ArtistUnicode:シャノ & 40mP
Creator:Net0
Version:Trynna's Insane
Source:
Tags:sugar panoram a note summer festival fireworks chano Trynna Mun Bariton MkGuh Shizuku- Mirash Delis Ataraxia
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Ephemeral

Inland Empire

3,936 posts

Joined April 2009

Ephemeral 2017-10-19T18:19:46+00:00

Can we not provoke people needlessly and also not post shitty misappropriated memes? That'd be great, thanks.

Mirash

Beatmap Nominator

705 posts

Joined June 2013

Mirash 2017-10-19T18:24:16+00:00

00:05:664 (2) - i just don't like the feeling of two objects being clickable in a row in that case
00:06:993 (3) - i feel like it works well for introduction to the next part
00:17:721 (1) - it plays just like a doublet and average player of such diffs will play it just fine i think
00:21:423 (1,2,3,4) - they fit in bell sounds and red ticks are highlighted better this way
00:25:031 (1,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,3) - if you listen to that two circles at right side they are mapped to a strong drums that are also at the right side, and the rest is just 1-2-3 pattern that i think fits nicely without emphasizing every strong beats
00:30:158 (1,2,1,1,2) - well, kinda agree at this point, reduced spacings
01:07:183 - 01:13:829 - just why... what?

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Doguu

114 posts

Joined September 2014

Doguu 2017-10-19T19:04:55+00:00

I literally uploaded a map a couple days ago where I tried to make a corner note feel appropriate even when in the beginning/at rest points where cursor should be in a neutral rest position in the middle of the screen by making the slider body go outward or in a direction that compliments the flow of jolting from the center of the screen to the corner. No I don't think it's an unrankable issue but yes I do feel it's a valid point to bring up in a mod. It just seems like an instant retry for first time plays. There was little harm to it being brought up because the point of the mod was to give ideas to improve the map. This is just an idea... Calm down ya memes xd lel :p crucify me.

Net0

1,238 posts

Joined October 2014

Topic Starter

Net0 2017-10-19T19:29:44+00:00

Monstrata wrote:
Nostalgic Festival

00:00:348 (1) - Man, beginning the map at the corner of the screen is really bad for player positioning xP Especially mouse users.
There are 3 cases which I think you can analyse the placement of the first object of the map;
1- It's irrelevant when the mapper is doing his map on free-hand style. This means that if you're a mapper that doesn't go for patterning but rather free placement with aesthetical spacing complementation that just moves around the screen as the map goes, taking the first object into analysis is just useless
2- You're actually modding the spacing of the starting pattern, in which case, you don't mention the first object, but rather you mod the pattern itself 00:00:348 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - and mention whatever it is you need to about spacing/flow/visual etc
3- You actually took into account that it's a relevant aspect when the mapper is making a playfield concept map, which is the case here. This map uses a lot of specific spots on the playfield for specific sound trasitions which is the aspect I hoped ppl would mod and suggest stuff to improve it. But since it's too subtle I guess it's just one of those things ppl may never notice (after all you need to make stuff retarded nowadays to people notice stuff in a map since everything is exaggerated when ppl think of concepts).
So yeah the reason it's placed there is because it's the starting point of the map and also the ending point of the map 01:37:563 (1) - something you could never noticed since you modded just 30 seconds of the diff , there's also the fact that whenever I wasn't on kiai, the emphasized stuff (combo 1) most of the time is placed above on the playfield, compared to the objects that follows it.
00:13:829 (5,6) - Why is this not a slider :S Considering how you mapped 00:13:069 (3,4) - . I did to avoid repetition, but you want more consistency, so I made it slider, FIXED
00:16:867 (5,6) - etc..^^
00:18:765 (2,1) - This is way too big, and it causes the jump onto 00:19:145 (2,1) - to feel totally unemphasized. Because it was intended that way. This entire pattern is made in groups 00:18:575 (1,2,1,2) - /00:19:335 (1,2,1,2) - /00:20:094 (1,2,1,2) - /00:20:854 (1,2,1,2) - /00:21:613 (1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1) - that's my interpretation for the song there. The first group is more importantly mapped compared to the second one.
00:20:474 (1,2,1,2) - Same ideas here. Your emphasis is misplaced and you're suddenly emphasizing red ticks. It causes the jump on 00:21:423 (2,1) - to feel unimportant comparativeily cuz of the similar spacing being used earlier.I re-worked the spacing here to avoid making 2-1 transitions bigger to the consecutive 1-2
You're clearly mapping these jumps for aesthetic purposes but theyre hurting playability.Playability is fine, not using unplayable stuff here, just unsual wide angles.
00:24:272 (1,2,3,4,1) - If you rotated thsi 120 degrees it would flow so much better considering the counterclockwise movement you had earlier
~
https://puu.sh/y1DgL.png
It would, but that also would make the transition to the stream fall flat with confortable flow, you see, I'm doing a contrast there; the angles here 00:23:322 (2,3,4,5,6) - are all linear 120º but the stream moviment is sudden sharpenedto 60º 00:24:082 (6,1) - This makes it difficult while still keeping it spacing wise coherent
00:25:411 - Why isn't this mapped tho lol... It's a piano sound with no percussion; Also there's a rhythm construction here; 00:24:651 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1) - first you have the gap idea that should come up with all groups 00:24:651 (1,2) - /00:25:220 (3,4) - /00:25:980 (1,2) - /00:26:740 (1,2) - second, you have an increasing singletap objects groupíng from 2 00:25:031 (2,3) - to 3 00:25:601 (4,5,1,2,3,1) - to 400:27:120 (2,3,4,1) - which helps building up a bit more of tension in this section

Uhh I really can't agree with how you map this lmao... I feel that way about a lot of maps out there, but meh, ppl should be allowed to get pp with no effort.
If you actually plan to make convincing changes to what i mentioned earlier, then you can poke me to mod the rest of the diff.Whatever issues you may point that will improve the map inside its concepts I'll change it just like I did with this mod ^^, so feel free to point more stuff.

You guys are trying too hard to be creative, but there is no baseline "standard mapping" to deviate from though. The issue with making everything creative is, if there is nothing to deviate from, it doesn't come across as unique or special, just different. Look at Shizuku's approach if you want a good idea of how to properly implement creative elements.
It's creative as much as it is different. I'd say that going for a different mapping might not be creative inside your own idea Monstrata, but being different is something that this mapset is REALLY going for and something that ranked category is missing currently.

Do you know WHY you liked Shizuku- diff more?
It wasn't because of the contrast between "regular" and "irregular" sections, it's because the map itself was made with the current mapping visual/spacing standards and you could recognize your mapping there.
looking at this visual is painful for most of the current mapping/modding community
Compared to this for example
But you guys need to understand that this fact is not objectivelly "one is better compared to the other" is just preference. I don't like current visuals and so I map for the people who also don't like the current standards.

Also every single modder had its own "personal favorite" among the diffs, and that only proves how well this mapset result is because EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE INSANE DIFFS is different compared to each other, and that's how it is supposed to be.

Mirash/Delis visual is kinda similar, however delis design is more classy and oriented into Shinxyn while Mirash follows his own mapping based on overmapped rhythms/90º flow similar to a few 2012 maps. Trynna makes everything flow linear like an insane diff, but adds some cool stuff to make it more interesting such as the double pattern visual idea 00:00:917 (3,4) - that's used in a lot of different ways in different song sections to keep the player attention while also introducing 1/2 spacing concepts similar to Delis and Mirash 00:23:322 (1,2,3,4,5) - . Bariton is a big fan of imoutosan's idea of overlapping sliders and his overall mapping is based on that while keeping the star rating low so that even new players can enjoy something a bit different. Shizuku- and Mun have a more contemporary aesthetic idea in their maps. Shizuku-'s goes for a traditional modern map but adding a reading element with stacks in it, while Mun pretty much uses a techical mapping structure whenever it's possible and the song supports it.

So yeah I don't think we're tryharding or forcing stuff in a degree that ISN'T already stablished as rankable. You see, the problem with ranking Delta Decision, Taki and Mitsuha extras, Alien and a lot of your maps is that now ,for isonomic reasons, other people can overdo stuff in an extreme way too if they have their reasoning. (if ranking process is not treated as a privilege ofc).

Now for the ppl who are saying "overreact and etc"

the problem here is that Monstrata already joked about this map and so his friends did too;

2017-09-16 01:58 Net0: omg are you really mapping that too?!
2017-09-16 02:05 Monstrata: yes!!
2017-09-16 02:06 Monstrata: do you want me to gd for you?
2017-09-16 02:06 Monstrata: ill just upload for now you're free to take it im not going to make a full set ^^
2017-09-16 02:06 Net0: well sure
2017-09-16 02:06 Net0: Where did you took the mp3?
2017-09-16 02:06 Net0: offset and stuff
2017-09-16 02:08 Monstrata: stole from ur set so it should be fine
2017-09-16 02:08 Net0: oh it's rainbows
2017-09-16 02:08 Net0: damn for a second I honestly thought it was serious
2017-09-16 02:08 Net0: you got me
2017-09-16 02:09 Net0: kinda interesting tho, even fullscreen for the entire song it can only goes as far as 7*
2017-09-16 02:14 Monstrata: lol yea
2017-09-16 02:14 Net0: rhythm op
2017-09-16 02:44 Net0: I'm kinda curious tho, why did you have my set in the first place?
2017-09-16 02:52 Monstrata: was just like "lol another natsukoi hanabi pp farm map"
2017-09-16 02:52 Monstrata: might as well make another :D
2017-09-16 02:52 Net0: hmm
2017-09-16 02:53 Net0: well it isn't :/
2017-09-16 02:54 Net0: but yeah funny meme

https://puu.sh/y27jV.mp3

So I suppose people memeing on the opposite side is just human nature. Everyone is on the wrong side in this entire situation.

So from now on, PLEASE REFRAIN FROM MEME/JOKING/MAKING PHILOSOPHICAL DIGRESSIONS ABOUT LIFE/CALLING PEOPLE "BOLUDITOS", etc and just say whatever you want about the map. Say that you liked it, say that's it's hellish garbage, but keep it ABOUT the map.

Only Mun and Shizuku- missing update, thanks mod.

Last edited by Net0 2017-10-19T19:42:13+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Xinnoh

Elite Mapper

1,950 posts

Joined April 2014

Xinnoh 2017-10-19T19:45:38+00:00

Net0 wrote:
while Mirash follows his own mapping based on overmapped rhythms

Net0 wrote:
So yeah I don't think we're tryharding or forcing stuff in a degree that ISN'T already stablished as rankable.

please choose only one of these conflicting arguments

Mun

468 posts

Joined July 2015

Mun 2017-10-19T19:54:04+00:00

I don't like what Mirash did, but gross overmapping has repeatedly been established as rankable

Monstrata

Elite Mapper: Aspirant

4,642 posts

Joined May 2013

Monstrata 2017-10-19T19:57:04+00:00

You're welcome to disagree. Maps that try to push the boundaries / go against the norms of the meta typically take a lot more effort to rank, but you're well aware of that.

My issue with many difficulties in this mapset is that you've executed these gimmicky and "creative" elements with no relation to anything standard or "normal" so there is no juxtaposition that allows these creative elements to shine. On their own, the patterns could be pretty cool, but there is no substance to them currently. It's unfortunately, because many of the mappers in this set seem to know their way around the editor. But you guys are using too many different concepts and not tying them in. There are a lot of "oh this is cool" moments that turn into "wait why is it like this now?" two seconds after because you shift to a different pattern, or a different approach. This set to me, showcases mappers with good potential who are biting off more than they can chew by trying to introduce and set up too many creative components.

If you want to improve your map, ask yourself why you've deviated from the "expected/standard" way of mapping for a particular element or pattern. If your answer is something along the lines of "i want to make it different" then reconsider your reasoning. If your answer is "I want to highlight X" (X being a particular instrument, the pitch, the rhythm, the emphasis, etc...) then keep.

But then ask yourself "If i want to highlight X using method Y, do I really need to highlight X using method Z, A, B, C, D, E, F as well?" (Methods being "flow break, spacing changes, linear flow, overlaps, stacks etc....)" And hopefully your answer will be "No", or in rare cases"Yes, but only because method Y and Z relate very well to each other."

Hope you understand my position better now. I've come to understand your perspective better, so I'm not as afraid to put a veto. But I probably won't unless you find some random BN to yolo bubble this.

Mun

468 posts

Joined July 2015

Mun 2017-10-19T19:59:45+00:00

Honestly I have to say monstrata really has it down. That was a very well-articulated explanation of something I really can't disagree with.

Mirash

Beatmap Nominator

705 posts

Joined June 2013

Mirash 2017-10-19T20:07:49+00:00

i see nothing creative in my difficulty, and i was not trying to achieve something like this
the ideas i use here is all basic, and, for what i could tell, been in use from many years ago, like 2010-11
and yeah overmapping to highlight and keep tension in music is what i like to do

Trynna

714 posts

Joined May 2013

Trynna 2017-10-19T20:07:50+00:00

i'm sorry if my diff feels messy to you though, i'm open for criticism if you want to point something else out

igorsprite

623 posts

Joined September 2015

igorsprite 2017-10-19T20:35:42+00:00

Essa discussão foi tão desnecessária quanto o mod do Monstrata :/

Net0

1,238 posts

Joined October 2014

Topic Starter

Net0 2017-10-19T20:44:56+00:00

Monstrata wrote:
You're welcome to disagree. Maps that try to push the boundaries / go against the norms of the meta typically take a lot more effort to rank, but you're well aware of that.Yeah, even tho I don’t think there’s anything THAT spectacular NEW with any diff, sure I can’t rank this to celebrate anyones birthday.

My issue with many difficulties in this mapset is that you've executed these gimmicky and "creative" elements with no relation to anything standard or "normal" so there is no juxtaposition that allows these creative elements to shine. Because you’re going for a specific definition of “normal” mapping. You see, if I compare in a DJPop maps parts that are supposed to shine and parts that are not supposed do shine, I need to evaluate it differently if I were to mod one of your regular maps beucase the core used to structure the map is entirely different. Let me show you;
If a map is made on grid snap 1, fully DSed. The analisys of a part that is supposed to shine and parts that are not can’t be done with spacing concept. If visuals are also an element that’s null because of slider design limitation, the evaluation there should be on flow element, and that’s pretty straight forward if you compare how both of this plays;
https://puu.sh/y29Gk.jpg / https://puu.sh/y29Ia.jpg is pretty obvious on what is being more emphasized compared to the other one.
And that applies to any map that has an intensity component added to its composition;
In your maps for example, you have the same visual/flow in the entire map, so the only element that can be took into analysis as for the shine/non-shine thing is spacing;
Non-kiai
http://puu.sh/y29N7.jpg /
Kiai
https://puu.sh/y29RT.jpg
And that can be took into account in any map of any level of difficulty. HOWEVER you’re generically pointing that the diffs don’t have that contrast but you never mentioned that IN THE MOD itself.

On their own, the patterns could be pretty cool, but there is no substance to them currently. It's unfortunately, because many of the mappers in this set seem to know their way around the editor. But you guys are using too many different concepts and not tying them in. There are a lot of "oh this is cool" moments that turn into "wait why is it like this now?" two seconds after because you shift to a different pattern, or a different approach. This set to me, showcases mappers with good potential who are biting off more than they can chew by trying to introduce and set up too many creative components. This entire paragraph is just rethoric argumentation. “On their own, the patterns could be pretty cool, but there is no substance to them currently.” Saying there’s no substance means nothing. It’s just personal criticism, it’s just like a line a movie critic would say about a specific acting of a person in a movie for example.
“But you guys are using too many different concepts and not tying them in.” really? So you think that Mirash map suddenly becomes another map midway? If that was the case would be really simple to point that out; “Yo Mirash your map up until the second verse is one thing, when you start mapping the bridge of the song and chorus you’re totally using different stuff” Another element is that EACH diff is different. So each diff has its own concepts to be “tying them in.. Shizuku- with the reading/stack aspect, Mirash diff with flow, Bariton diff with its overlap visual, etc. And AGAIN, you didn’t mentioned in the mod where it was off, when any of the diffs just didn’t implement something accordingly.

If you want to improve your map, ask yourself why you've deviated from the "expected/standard" way of mapping for a particular element or pattern. If your answer is something along the lines of "i want to make it different" then reconsider your reasoning. If your answer is "I want to highlight X" (X being a particular instrument, the pitch, the rhythm, the emphasis, etc...) then keep. You’re assuming now that we don’t know what we’re doing because you QUICKLLY checked the diffs and couldn’t grasp it, so now it’s our fault? Even tho we did mapped accordingly to what you’re saying? Quick example
Mirash diff; 00:20:854 (3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6) – why would you map this with straight lines and on the next section 00:23:322 (1,2,3,4,5) – make a square?! Oh that’s because the map uses a straight visual, and to make distinction of the two different measures 00:21:993 - ~ 00:22:942 - / 00:23:322 - ~ 00:24:272 -. Spacing and flow changed accordingly, also avoid the linear repetition with the song change, there’s a symmetrical patterning build here 00:24:272 (1,2,3,4,5,1,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,1) – instead of the previous free-hand design, etc, etc.
If a modder doesn’t understand a certain idea in the map, he should ASK about it. Not assume the mapper doesn’t know what he’s doing.
But then ask yourself "If i want to highlight X using method Y, do I really need to highlight X using method Z, A, B, C, D, E, F as well?" (Methods being "flow break, spacing changes, linear flow, overlaps, stacks etc....)" And hopefully your answer will be "No", or in rare cases"Yes, but only because method Y and Z relate very well to each other."
Again you didn’t ask yourself that when you modded my diff for example; you modded this section 00:18:575 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1) – and all you could see was the visual element of it to justify its existence, but failed to notice the fact that every single object 00:18:575 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1) – is upwards compared to 00:18:765 (2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2) – and also failed to question yourself WHY only 00:21:044 (2) – and 00:22:942 (1) – are the exception of that rule. That also applies to other concepts such as spacing, why is this group 00:18:575 (1,2,1,2) – contrast between spacing on 1-2 vs 2-1 difference bigger compared to 00:19:335 (1,2,1,2) - , or flow , why does this part flows linear 00:21:613 (1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1) – instead of angular like the previous 1-2. So yeah, I map using everything you’re saying.
Hope you understand my position better now. I watched the vod of you modding this map, I heard “Please don’t tell me this is bubbled”, I can already understand your position pretty clearly. But what I really think that comes up with all of this is how unwilling you were to mod the map in the first place. If you really didn’t want to mod this I gave you other options, also, you could just say “Hey I don’t like any of the songs you have currently, do you mind if I own you a mod on something else in the future?” . Because honestly, anything is better compared to a mod made with bad faith.
I've come to understand your perspective better, so I'm not as afraid to put a veto. But I probably won't unless you find some random BN to yolo bubble this. “Random BN”so you find the memes towards you offensive, but saying that there are BNs who are random and BNs who are not random is not offensive when EVERY single BN is an important part of the BNG is not offensive…

Last edited by Net0 2017-10-19T21:17:14+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Monstrata

Elite Mapper: Aspirant

4,642 posts

Joined May 2013

Monstrata 2017-10-19T20:50:33+00:00

Best of luck ranking this map ^^.

Mun

468 posts

Joined July 2015

Mun 2017-10-19T21:29:38+00:00

Monstrata wrote:
Mun's Expert

00:06:992 (1,2,3) - Why the sudden change in structure here? I don't see much of a change in structure here at all, aside from that which the music merits as it transitions into the next section.
00:11:360 (3,4) - Why stack? :S that would be because i am bad
00:21:044 (5,6) - Why the huge 1/4 jump here xp see above
00:25:980 (1,4) - Can you not overlap? lmao u got it
00:35:854 (3,4,5) - This just looks bad cuz its a different visual structure compared to just an object before. Two competing grid structures end up causing structural inconsistenties Thanks for the input! I'd like more feedback on whether the change is acceptable if possible, though
00:47:626 (2,3,4) - Why are they so close together they touch like that xd. your cs is high enough xd unclosened
00:49:525 (3,1) - Looks off visually xP make more symmetrical or something. symmetricized

lol xd lol

You guys are trying too hard to be creative, but there is no baseline "standard mapping" to deviate from though. The issue with making everything creative is, if there is nothing to deviate from, it doesn't come across as unique or special, just different. Look at Shizuku's approach if you want a good idea of how to properly implement creative elements.

This was the most helpful mod that this mapset has received to date. Thank you!

xd

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TitleUnicode:夏恋花火
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ArtistUnicode:シャノ & 40mP
Creator:Net0
Version:Mun's Expert
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316,200,37942,1,8,0:0:0:0:
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376,145,41360,1,2,0:0:0:0:
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222,209,43449,6,0,P|211:263|240:347,1,134.999995880127,4|0,2:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
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139,241,44018,1,8,0:0:0:0:
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431,111,44778,1,8,0:0:0:0:
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201,288,47246,1,0,0:0:0:0:
268,366,47436,5,0,3:0:0:0:
343,290,47626,2,0,L|343:210,1,80,0|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
193,147,48006,2,0,P|254:172|317:151,1,134.999995880127
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159,315,49335,1,8,0:0:0:0:
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VINXIS

Featured Artist

3,161 posts

Joined April 2014

VINXIS 2017-10-19T22:07:30+00:00

meh monstrata isnt wrong in the mod

i think most of the mappers' efforts in this set r trying to be 2 creative which led them to obscure the image of their own map

Izzywing

osu! Alumni

2,248 posts

Joined March 2016

Izzywing 2017-10-19T22:16:04+00:00

@mun

small point but have you considered moving all of 00:25:980 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - to the right a bit, lets you space out 00:27:120 (5) - which would help make it look not so different from the other 1/4 gaps (something like https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9352907)

01:01:107 (1,2,3) - I also think this is a bit overspaced in context with the rest of the map, its part of the transition so i dont think it needs this big emphasis

@mirash

00:21:423 (1,2,3,4) - these doubles make no sense to me at all, i cant hear what they're supposed be following. if its an overmap...im not really understanding that either

Last edited by Izzywing 2017-10-19T22:19:29+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

I Must Decrease

908 posts

Joined June 2013

I Must Decrease 2017-10-19T23:28:21+00:00

top diff:

00:25:411 - ... why did you ignore this beat? i cannot fathom a reason for why this is ignored. Can you explain this?

(also overall agree with monstrata this map isnt really fit for rank as is)

chainpullz

2,334 posts

Joined June 2013

chainpullz 2017-10-20T01:45:25+00:00

I too was there for Monstrata's stream and while he may not have gone start to finish on every diff, there are like a dozens diffs on this set so it still ended up costing an hour of his time to go over what he did.

I'm usually a fan of edgy mapping (hanzer x irre eastbound & down is one of my favorites) but when the tone of the song itself is the exact opposite of edgy it has the same cringe feeling as a bunch of middle schoolers trying to be edgy for the sake of being edgy.

This is just a first impression (opinion) from seeing the maps on his stream so take it as you will (though I do hope you at least take a moment to ask yourself why it had to be this song that you mapped like this).

_handholding

3,109 posts

Joined April 2014

_handholding 2017-10-20T01:59:03+00:00

Imho I see you as quite an inexperienced mapper (dw I suck too) and whenever someone critisizes one of your maps, or just don't agree with certain aspects, you get really defensive and start bringing up loads of other maps in retaliation, and that doesn't really help much. I think if you were to truly take a step back with some humility, try out a few things other modders have brought up, you'd go a long way, not just improving your individual maps but also improving as a mapper as well

SnowNiNo_

Elite Mapper: Aspirant

2,106 posts

Joined April 2013

SnowNiNo_ 2017-10-20T02:35:37+00:00

why do ppl try to map gimmicks
when the song isnt gimmicky at all
:thinking:

juankristal

osu! Alumni

1,408 posts

Joined August 2010

juankristal 2017-10-20T03:50:03+00:00

do i really have to read all of this stuff...

EDIT: Alright so, cleaned the thread a bit. Please no more memes here.

Don't make a drama out of something that didn't really look like it in the first place really. People can make arguments but at the end they are helping improving maps by modding. Both sides should just be more clear with their suggestions and answers alongisde memeing a lot less.

Joe Castle

802 posts

Joined September 2014

Joe Castle 2017-10-20T03:55:02+00:00

its sad that half of you guys cant stand a meme about monstrata´s mod...

but at the same time the other half cant stand a silly opinion about how the map starts

/4D_chess_starts

0034192

6 posts

Joined September 2015

0034192 2017-10-20T04:18:50+00:00

lmao what the fuck is going on here

Natteke desu

2,487 posts

Joined August 2012

Natteke desu 2017-10-20T05:34:21+00:00

SnowNiNo_ wrote:
why do ppl try to map gimmicks
when the song isnt gimmicky at all
:thinking:

Because mapping basic stuff is boring and not original

Ayesha Altugle

3,052 posts

Joined October 2011

Ayesha Altugle 2017-10-20T06:17:35+00:00

Monstrata wrote:
Shizuku's Extra

00:10:791 (1,1) - Stacks Whoops, no one saw that one
00:25:411 - Don't understand why you dont map this. But i can understand every other part. it's just here theres also the insturment didn't feel the need to add a note since I mostly follow the percussion instruments

This is great. This is how you should map a gimmick honestly. There are overlapping/stacking/hard to read patterns but they are really well integrated. you have a baseline that is "normal" mapping so when you switch to sections that are different, they feel unique and special. Good job! Coming from you, it's a really nice thing to say. Considering for the past 2 years, you hated my mapping style since it didn't make sense at all. It's good to see that comment from you because that's when I know that I improved on mapping, even though it took so long to do so.

Thanks for modding!

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134,264,57689,1,2,3:2:0:0:
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477,120,89588,5,8,0:0:0:0:
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124,106,97563,1,0,0:0:0:0:

Mirash

Beatmap Nominator

705 posts

Joined June 2013

Mirash 2017-10-20T08:00:00+00:00

@Hobbes2 if you listen closely, sounds in music start at 00:21:423 (1) - and end on 00:21:803 (4) - while it could be a stream because of strong tomb, i find the way doublets represent that sounds more appropriate here, if i'm not a total retard. i might change it though, if someone actually will convince me with something more than WHYWHYWHYitIsOvermap
also got very tilted because of discussions i've seen, thanks

Linada

993 posts

Joined November 2014

Linada 2017-10-20T08:22:10+00:00

Mirash wrote:
@Hobbes2 if you listen closely, sounds in music start at 00:21:423 (1) - and end on 00:21:803 (4) - while it could be a stream because of strong tomb, i find the way doublets represent that sounds more appropriate here, if i'm not a total retard. i might change it though, if someone actually will convince me with something more than WHYWHYWHYitIsOvermap
also got very tilted because of discussions i've seen, thanks

tbh i really can't understand doubles here too, even if i listen closely i don't get it. moving 3 at the white tick would make much more sense to me

also

01:16:297 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - i knew overmap with sliderend were allowed but this stream is completely out of place
01:24:461 (7,1) - also here ?? but you ignore the existing 1/4s to completely overmap inexisting sounds ?
01:25:411 (5) - nc pls

Net0 wrote:
while Mirash follows his own mapping based on overmapped rhythms

when did this become a thing ? thoses streams emphasize or express nothing in the song, i don't get it, why is this even a thing

also ppl here getting triggered easily, don't take this offensively, i'm out already do what you want

@Shizuku rly nice diff

Delis

1,433 posts

Joined May 2012

Delis 2017-10-20T08:59:25+00:00

I've never been mapping just to make every circle sense btw maybe not a good thing to tell someone what to do by your words >u<

p.s. my post with the fixed .osu is deleted holy shit

Sotarks

3,493 posts

Joined May 2014

Sotarks 2017-10-20T09:06:43+00:00

Jounzan wrote:
SnowNiNo_ wrote:
why do ppl try to map gimmicks
when the song isnt gimmicky at all
:thinking:
Because mapping basic stuff is boring and not original

Agree with Nino here..
If you guys really want to be original just make original maps on original songs. But this is just my opinion tho.

I remember modded this and yeah shizuku reflected this song really well with his mapping. The rest is good but like trying too hard to be creative ends up random gimmicks and doesn't fit.

Anyway good luck with this

Akitoshi

2,684 posts

Joined August 2014

Akitoshi 2017-10-20T09:56:49+00:00

Delis wrote:
>u<

Natteke desu

2,487 posts

Joined August 2012

Natteke desu 2017-10-20T11:14:21+00:00

I mean this thread is lol. Would it work as a something worth discussion if i come to a random map thread and say something like "this map is too generic and it doesnt fits the song"? Can you quit this nonsence, and instead point everyhing you find unfittig by examples, because saying u pepel try two hard to be creative and song doesnt support it is straight retarded in case why on earth you think people will agree with your opinions when obviously liking other kind of stuff than you do lol im mad

juankristal

osu! Alumni

1,408 posts

Joined August 2010

juankristal 2017-10-20T11:15:31+00:00

Delis wrote:
I've never been mapping just to make every circle sense btw maybe not a good thing to tell someone what to do by your words >u<

p.s. my post with the fixed .osu is deleted holy shit

That was my bad! Restored.

AshbeII

88 posts

Joined October 2015

AshbeII 2017-10-20T14:52:16+00:00

--nostalgic diff

00:18:575 (1,2,1,2) - xd

this basically has 0 sense and doesn't hint at anything coming into the map, the song doesn't even change here so I assume you had a missclick and moved the circles a little bit too far so maybe fix?

you emphasize 00:32:056 (1) with distance - but not 00:31:297 (1) - or 00:32:816 (1) - or 00:33:765 (1) -

00:42:879 (1) - 00:43:449 (1) - 00:43:449 (1) - 00:45:917 (1) - ^

00:36:803 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - this feels honestly so weird to play and hear , why not map only voice or instrumentals ? ;f this is just an opinion tho

not sure what happend to the map past 1 minute

xd

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-naduAbrBnc

Net0 wrote:
but meh, ppl should be allowed to get pp with no effort.

...right no wonder mapping meta sucks nice mentality you got there

this is on the maps front page btw

Net0

1,238 posts

Joined October 2014

Topic Starter

Net0 2017-10-20T15:14:22+00:00

VINXIS wrote:
meh monstrata isnt wrong in the mod

i think most of the mappers' efforts in this set r trying to be 2 creative which led them to obscure the image of their own map

chainpullz wrote:
I too was there for Monstrata's stream and while he may not have gone start to finish on every diff, there are like a dozens diffs on this set so it still ended up costing an hour of his time to go over what he did.

I'm usually a fan of edgy mapping (hanzer x irre eastbound & down is one of my favorites) but when the tone of the song itself is the exact opposite of edgy it has the same cringe feeling as a bunch of middle schoolers trying to be edgy for the sake of being edgy.

This is just a first impression (opinion) from seeing the maps on his stream so take it as you will (though I do hope you at least take a moment to ask yourself why it had to be this song that you mapped like this).

Kisses wrote:
Imho I see you as quite an inexperienced mapper (dw I suck too) and whenever someone critisizes one of your maps, or just don't agree with certain aspects, you get really defensive and start bringing up loads of other maps in retaliation, and that doesn't really help much. I think if you were to truly take a step back with some humility, try out a few things other modders have brought up, you'd go a long way, not just improving your individual maps but also improving as a mapper as well

You guys do know that any personal comments about me as a mapper are totally irrelevant right? You can think whatever you want, as long as you're not discussing the map itself, I don't care. So in case you case you want to comment anything about any diff, that's what you should do. Like Linada doesn't agree with a specific concept used in one of the diffs, that's how you make you point. Not generically saying "yo you're not hanzer!", "you're inexperienced", "you can't map this song in x-y way of mapping, this song can only be done with z mapping, etc" this are not valid points because you're just pointing out your own personal perspectives about mapping itself or me as a mapper rather than discussing the mapset, which is the goal of this thread.

Sotarks wrote:
If you guys really want to be original just make original maps on original songs. But this is just my opinion tho.

1- The reason all of you prefer Shizuku-'s diff I already explained before in the reply of Monstrata (which seems that he would rather just ignore) But I'll explain again even tho I might sound too pretentious.

ANY song can be mapped in multiple different ways, and that's something most ppl should realize long ago. Do you want examples? Okay I'll drop a few maps of the same song that ARE mapped in completelly and entirelly different ways;
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/376552 / https://osu.ppy.sh/s/440068
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/55925 / https://osu.ppy.sh/s/55115
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/479470 / https://osu.ppy.sh/s/12327
And recently my favorite example of that contrast
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/16440 / https://osu.ppy.sh/s/618290

All of this maps with you take into account what elements were made differently, which concepts were adopted and which weren't will show that it's up to the mapper how they want to design their maps, and the variety of the insane diffs here only show how that is true, even for a song like Natsukoi Hanabi that tradicionally is considered pp.

Jounzan wrote:
I mean this thread is lol. Would it work as a something worth discussion if i come to a random map thread and say something like "this map is too generic and it doesnt fits the song"? Can you quit this nonsence, and instead point everyhing you find unfittig by examples, because saying u pepel try two hard to be creative and song doesnt support it is straight retarded in case why on earth you think people will agree with your opinions when obviously liking other kind of stuff than you do lol im mad

This summons up my point.

[/b]

Xexxar wrote:
top diff:

00:25:411 - ... why did you ignore this beat? i cannot fathom a reason for why this is ignored. Can you explain this?

Net0 wrote:
00:25:411 - Why isn't this mapped tho lol... It's a piano sound with no percussion; Also there's a rhythm construction here; 00:24:651 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1) - first you have the gap idea that should come up with all groups 00:24:651 (1,2) - /00:25:220 (3,4) - /00:25:980 (1,2) - /00:26:740 (1,2) - second, you have an increasing singletap objects groupíng from 2 00:25:031 (2,3) - to 3 00:25:601 (4,5,1,2,3,1) - to 400:27:120 (2,3,4,1) - which helps building up a bit more of tension in this section
(also overall agree with monstrata this map isnt really fit for rank as is)One object mentioned = yeah not ready for rank. Good old Xexxar :3

Net0

1,238 posts

Joined October 2014

Topic Starter

Net0 2017-10-20T16:12:31+00:00

rakuenslove wrote:
--nostalgic diff

you emphasize 00:32:056 (1) with distance - but not 00:31:297 (1) - or 00:32:816 (1) - or 00:33:765 (1) -

00:42:879 (1) - 00:43:449 (1) - 00:43:449 (1) - 00:45:917 (1) - ^

You're comparing 3 distinct sounds there; the object emphasized with distance there is this one 00:32:056 (1) - as you said it has bigger spacing so the similar one is also spaced emphasized right here 00:30:727 (1) - , even tho leniency makes this a bit less spacing intense 00:30:348 (3) - they're still similar, you can't compare those to 00:31:297 (1) - /00:32:816 (1) - they're similar but if you check the pattern you can notice I treated them differently. Also 00:33:196 (1,1) - saying this 1/4 gap is not emphasized is just lol

00:36:803 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - this feels honestly so weird to play and hear , why not map only voice or instrumentals ? ;f this is just an opinion tho

Sliders for dense vocal lines and circles to keep the rhythm along percussion? fuan ni naru kedo all are mapped with sliders and since the "do" line is bigger and mapped a reverse slider to change the flow since I'd use sliders for percussion afterwards 00:38:892 (1,2,1,1) - that's also the reason I changed combo colors there.

00:18:575 (1,2,1,2) - xd

this basically has 0 sense and doesn't hint at anything coming into the map, the song doesn't even change here so I assume you had a missclick and moved the circles a little bit too far so maybe fix?
not sure what happend to the map past 1 minute
xd
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-naduAbrBnc
Wow posting pishifat video as argument, let's see if you watched the video and really mod the map accordingly;
spacing with jumps: spacing shouldn't be random, and must be according to the songs intensity;
More intense section 00:18:575 (1,2,1,2) - with 00:18:765 (2,1) - having bigger spacing compared to 00:18:955 (1,2) - compared to 00:19:335 (1,2,1,2) - with less contrast between the intensity of 1-2 connections to 2-1, so the spacing is accordingly, repeated element 00:20:094 (1,2,1,2) - when the song repeats itself
visuals with jumps; 00:18:575 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1) - highlight and observe, try to understand before getting all sarcastic
flow with jumps; "By continuosly using one type of flow throught one section of the song jumps can represent that section's repeated elements, and when the song change, flow change as well;
00:18:575 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - snap/angular flow with increasing and decreasing spacing according to the hitsounding/music interpretation
00:21:613 (1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1) - Linear motion with wide angles and a bit of a decreased spacing
There's also an element he didn't mention in the video;
positioning with jumps; objects with bigger contrast between 1-2 and 2-1 spacing are on the edges of the playfield while the ones with smaller are more on the middle 00:19:335 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - , objects with snare are upwards compared to the ones that are not, etc...

Net0 wrote:
but meh, ppl should be allowed to get pp with no effort.
...right no wonder mapping meta sucks nice mentality you got there

this is on the maps front page btw

Nice sarcasm, but don't quote me without the full context of it;

Net0 wrote:
Monstrata wrote:
Uhh I really can't agree with how you map this lmao... I feel that way about a lot of maps out there, but meh, ppl should be allowed to get pp with no effort.

I didn't change anything but thanks for the mod.

Necroluttah

223 posts

Joined July 2013

Necroluttah 2017-10-20T16:50:58+00:00

ouçam os bn gente, nenhum deles tão dizendo isso pra atacar
é pra ajudar

Net0

1,238 posts

Joined October 2014

Topic Starter

Net0 2017-10-20T17:29:46+00:00

Necroluttah wrote:
ouçam os bn gente, nenhum deles tão dizendo isso pra atacar
é pra ajudar

Ué, eu to dando reply normalmente nos mods que chegaram na thread x.x

chano & 40mP - Natsukoi Hanabi

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chano & 40mP - Natsukoi Hanabi

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